Super JEALOUS Daddy - HELP!!!!!
I'm going to try to put this in a nutshell but it's so convoluted it might take a bit for me to explain...I'm a 41 year old mother of one boy, age 8 and I've been divorced for two years. I met a nice man & we've been together just about a year now. He is also 41, been divorced 4 years & has 2 children, a boy who is 8 and a girl who is 6. There aren't, that I'm aware of, any issues with our ex's, really, no major jealousy or evil baby momma's or daddy's. I'm not jealous of my BF's relationship or past with his ex, or jealous of his relationship with his children & I don't think my BF is jealous of my relationship with my son or my reltionship with my son's father. The jealous problem has to do more with me and his kids.
My BF's kids really like me. His daughter follows me around and always wants me to play with her and his son is very sweet to me. My BF has told me many times that his kids really like me which you would think would be a good thing but he is jealous of my relationship with his kids. This is odd to me because he is a very loving father and has a very close relationship with his children. It's almost as if he worries his kids, especially his daughter, likes me more than she likes him. If for any reason I spend time with his kids and he isn't there or involved he gets very jealous and agitated. We talked about it and I told him that maybe he needs more time with his kids alone (just him & his kids) so I've given that to him. I make sure that my son and I have some activities planned so that my BF can have time alone with his kids when they are here but still it doesn't seem to be enough. One weekend we (my son and I) were barely around at all and he had almost the entire weekend alone with his kids. He was practically glowing he was so happy. Then on other weekends, he had to work and I was with the kids or I took his daughter with me somewhere (at her request) and he was sullen, quiet, agitated and ignored me most of the weekend. He admits fully that he is jealous and feels it's normal and natural for him to be this way. He says that it is because he doesn't get to see his kids enough and he misses them terribly and wants them all the time. He says that I don't understand because I've never had to be apart from my son for any length of time (no longer than four days). I should also mention that for quite some time his children lived about 18 hours away & he only got to see them on summer break and very infrequently in between. While I sympathize with him in wanting to see his kids more & want to do what I can to help him to see them more I don't understand this jealousy. I've offered to watch his kids if he gets the chance to have them during the week and drive them back and forth to school just so he can see them more, but due to his work schedule he won't do it because I will see and be with them more than he will and he knows it will upset him. He is also jealous that I have my son so much and tells me it bothers him that he feels he sees my son more than he sees his own kids. I should also mention that my boyfriend is jealous of the relationship that our son's have. They get along very well together & usually most of the time his kids are here, the boys are paling around together and I think that is great, but he, to some degree resents my son and feels like my son is taking his son away from him. Is it me or is this highly immature?
I should mention my BF also seems to have serious guilt issues as well. He keeps my son at arms length and although he is for the most part very nice to my boy he keeps him at arms length and has never even tried to bond with him or do anything with him. He says it's because if he did he would feel so guilty and like he should be doing these things with HIS kids. I can also tell that when his kids are here he avoids me and when and if we do get a few minutes together (his kids, especially his daughter is VERY demanding) I can tell that he feels guilty and like he's taking time away from his kids. I try to stay out of his way for this very reason and just interact with the kids & let him have his time but it never seems to be enough, and when I do this he says it feels awkward and as if I'm angry or we are avoiding one another. I told him it is just because I don't want to get in the way, but I must admit I do get upset when it is like that because I feel like my son and I are outsiders and like he definately does NOT want us around at all. I've also noticed that he always wants to keep everything separate...even little things...like laundry. I used to do his kids laundry so that their Mom wouldn't have to wash all their clothes when they got home, but now I've noticed he takes it & does it almost behind my back like he doesn't want me doing it. When I do even the smallest things for his kids he seems to be jealous. I set up his daughters room and put up cute girly decals one day. I was so excited to show him when he got home but all he said was, "why can't I think of things like that" and he got very sullen - jealous again! He won't let the boys share a room and insists that his kids have their room together which I think is odd because they are getting too old for that and his son really wants to share a room with my son and his daughter really wants a pretty girly room for herself. I simply don't get this. I've told him before that if he feels he cannot somewhat share his kids and let another person in perhaps he has no business being in a relationship. I've also mentioned perhaps he needs to be back with his ex since he's told me he feels that if he isn't with his kids only she should be (his ex is re-married though, but my BF is the one who initiated the divorce). We talked about living separately as well, but the way he described it, I think I would feel I was nothing more than a 'booty' call every other weekend. I won't demean myself like that.
There are other issues with his daughter that I won't go into now. That's a whole other ball of wax that I don't think I want to deal with unless I can get this issue resolved. Again, no jealousy or anything and I think it's something I can live with, but he does favor and baby his daughter terribly. It's not that big a deal unless he comes down hard on my son and allows his daughter to break the rules. His excuse is, 'she's my little girl, my princess...'. I'll deal with that one later, IF we can get through the whole jealousy/segregation issue. I did mention this issue to my BF this past weekend and I told him that I felt like their were iron bars separating my son and me from him and his kids and he agreed and said he felt that's how it should be. I should mention that it is somewhat difficult to communicate with him because when I do he sees it as 'fighting' and says he doesn't want to fight all the time. We aren't yelling or necessarily even disagreeing, we are just talking and in my opinion, trying to work out issues that arise when you blend families. I sometimes feel like with him if everything isn't roses and smiles all the time he thinks it's disasterous, but in my mind you can't resolve issues and have a healthy relationship and move forward if you don't talk about things and find ways to solve problems. I also sensed that he was upset with me for bringing this up when he had his kids because it would detract from what little time he has with them, however, I didn't mention it until we had put the kids to bed and I didn't bring it up again or act at all upset or anything when the kids were awake and around. I would have waited to bring it up but he tells me that he simply doesn't have time for that sort of thing during the week because he works so much and is exhausted when he comes home. I do understand this as he works two jobs, leaves at 6 in the morning and doesn't get home until nearly 8 at night. I know his kids come first and mine comes first for me...I have no problem with that. What I do have a problem with is that I feel as though I'm not a priority in his life at all and that if we don't find a way to talk about & resolve this, it will destroy us. Has anyone else had this problem? I can't seem to find any information on this and any help would be GREATLY appreciated. Thanks!!! Lucy
Oh, I should add that my BF
Oh, I should add that my BF and I get along great when we don't have the kids. We have a lot in common and we have lovely times together. We work well together and co-habitate well too. We do love each other and want this to work, but we simply are not sure how to go about it. Obviously we're both new to this whole thing. Although both of us have dated after our divorces prior to meeting & getting together, the others we dated either didn't have children or we didn't introduce our children to those we were dating.
That seems very strange to me
That seems very strange to me for him to feel that way. Most fathers would be ecstatic if their daughter or son loved or even liked their significant other. I have not dealt with this, but have you thought about asking him to go to counseling? As you probably know, there is no way you and he would be able to create and maintain a healthy marriage, or even a relationship, when he's having these strange jealousy issues.
I would suggest counseling
I would suggest counseling too. How long have they been divorced? How long were they divorced before you two began cohabitating?
I'm with the
I'm with the others...counseling would be a really good idea. I think he should go on his own but also with you. If he rejects the idea of counseling ask him if working on this relationship is really what he wants. Also, it might be beneficial for him to go to counseling with his kids so they can observe the interaction together as well. These issues are not small for him and they won't go away or improve without some professional help. I think if you love him this would be worth a shot.
Thanks for all the
Thanks for all the advice....to answer your question "Totally bogus" my boyfriend was with his wife for 9 years and they were divorced for four years before he and I ever even met, so he's had four years to adjust to the divorce and the whole situation, which I think is a good amount of time. I know everyone's different and it takes people various amounts of time to grieve and adjust to divorced life, and if I had thought earlier on that he wasn't ready for a relationship or not over his divorce, I'd of either broke it off early or stepped WAY back, yet HE was the one saying he wanted and was ready for a relationship and HE was the one that said he wanted to move in with me and have his kids here. I never pressured him in any way to do any of this, matter of fact, quite the opposite and I warned him that it might be tough going at times and asked him repeatedly if he was sure he was ready for it and he thought it over carefully each time and came up with his own decision to get involved in this. That's what really makes it harder to comprehend! I might also add he and his ex-wife did try to get back together after their divorce (about 6 months after their divorce) but it didn't work out. He told me that he only did it for the kids and really wanted nothing to do with her. He's also told me that although he doesn't miss his ex-wife at all he misses "family" life, coming home to his kids, having dinner with and doing homework with them and being able to tuck them in at night. I understand that and think it's normal but after four years I feel he should stop complaining about it and either accept it or do something to change it, right?
I thought maybe I was over reacting to all of this and was kind of hoping it was a more common issue that others had experienced. I'm disheartened that it's not, a bit, but not totally surprised since I could find no help or advice on the internet (pre-existing) about this topic. You know a few times my BF has said something (somewhat casually and almost in a joking manner) about needing help or needing to be 'medicated'. Perhaps the suggestion is correct, however, he doesn't have health insurance just yet so that might be an issue. We are working on getting it for him but right now most of his money goes towards bills and child support. I'm also worried because although he's mentioned it cavalierly I think if I were to suggest therapy he might get very offended. He tends to be a very "manly" man for lack of a better term, very masculine, sometimes to the point of chauvanistic, which really doesn't bother me. I find some of it to be more chivalry and I'm more old fashioned so some of it is actually endearing to me. But, that being said, still tough for me to bring up. Perhaps I ought wait until he jokingly mentions it again, and then tenderly say, 'there's nothing wrong with that and it might help you' or something...
I often wonder if his upbringing may have something to do with this issue too. His parents were both manic depressives & they divorced. My BF doesn't have much love for his mother who re-married someone who was rather abusive to him and his siblings, and they were basically left to raise themselves as Mom was a drinker and pretty much left them to their own defenses. Matter of fact, my BF's step-dad actually built a house for his step children to live in and moved them out of the main house so my BF was on his own with just siblings (2 - 5 years older), without parents at the tender age of 14!
Sorry I'm so long winded, I just really want to fix this. Foxie, I get what you are saying and believe me when I tell you it has crossed my mind to just run, but I do love this man. He does have a good heart and I don't think he means to be like this. I think he simply can't help it and he is very inexperienced as far as relationships go. He told me that he has never communicated as much with any woman he's ever been with or opened up nearly as much with anyone as he has with me. We are 41 years old so that tells me a lot...that he's very inexperienced and has probably kept most of his girlfriends and even his poor ex-wife at a distance to some degree.
Thanks again for the suggestions and keep them coming. I'm taking it all in and hope I can find some sort of a temporary fix until we can get him some therapy or counseling. I do think he needs it and whether I'm with him or not I think it would be good for him and his kids. I just hope that I don't end up having to leave him because like I said, I really do love and care about him and I know he loves and cares about me and I know we both care about each other's children. They have all already become attached to us and each other and the last thing I want to do is tear them from each other if I don't have to! I'm the type of person that is a problem solver and I DON'T run from issues. I don't nag or b*tch either, which is one thing my BF loves about me. I'm just interested in how issues can be solved and we can move on and make it work!
Does his job have an Employee
Does his job have an Employee Assistance Program? Usually they will cover between 6 and 12 visits with a therapist. You are right. 4 years post divorce is plenty of time for him to find himself and figure out what went wrong in the hopes of not repeating the same mistakes.
It sounds like your relationship is salvageable if you can convince him to go to couples counseling. I'm sure an unbiased third party can get to the bottom of it and help him deal with his separation anxiety.
My husband and I have been together nearly nine years. We recently moved far approximately 5 /12 hours away from his kids. He has been suffering some of that separation anxiety, yet, he has never been jealous of the relationship his daughters and I have nor has he had any problems in blending our families so he can have that dinner at night, tucking them in at night when they're here and so on.
I think a counselor can help him to adjust to his NEW FAMILY.
See, apart from the moral
See, apart from the moral conatations of living together (which I don't have an opinion on) you are there for what? Where is the autonomy? Are you an equal partner?
Yes, I am sure he is a lovely man and yes you probably feel sorry for him. But his solution to not being there for his kids is divorce their mother and live far enough away from them so he didn't see them as often as he wanted. I wonder if he is jealous of his kids teachers because out of
EVERY adult in his kids lives these people see his kids the most. Honestly how does he feel about THAT? Because that is the argument I would throw back at him.
You could demand counselling for both of you. Initially seperately but then together. And it may still come down to living apart.
See, my problem is what example are you setting for your impressionable sons and his daughter? It is OK for a grown man to pout and fret and get sulky because his partner had an idea and he didn't? Isn't the final result that his daughter is happy? Or is he the ONLY one allowed to make his kids happy? Which sounds very creepy.
Personally, I would move out. Get a place of my own with my son and stay in my own place for a year and see how things go. I expect I would eventually get fed up with his bullshit behaviour and tell him to grow the f. up.
Thanks. I've not really had
Thanks. I've not really had much chance to talk to my BF about all of this with our work schedules, but I intend to put my thoughts together and discuss it with him this weekend when we have time and no kids in the house. It's amazing to me, though, how our relationship and his demeanor are so completely different when his kids are not here...i.e. things are just fine, better than fine, right now, yet I know weekend after this when his kids come it could potentially get tense again. Not that we fight or otherwise outwardly show any animosity in front of the kids because we don't. Of course I expect things will be different having 3 kids in the house instead of 1 and I accept that, it's just the jealousy thing that gets me. I will discuss the counseling thing with him this weekend & see how it goes. It may come to us living apart and/or breaking it off, but I hope not. I'll let you know how it goes, though.
Oh, and to "oneoffour" maybe I wasn't clear...my BF doesn't live that far away from his kids...only about 25 mins. away now. Previously, his ex moved the kids nearly a day's drive away from him, but now we are fairly close to them, but not as close as my BF would like. We are considering moving closer (in the same town or one over) from his kids so he can see the more frequently. I'm all for that, however, I have expressed concerns with moving my child to a different school and getting a place together if this jealousy thing continues. Right now he has moved into my place which although he says he's fairly comfortable with, he would prefer we get a place together that is more "ours" instead. He wants to see his kids more than every other weekend, and his ex is totally open to my BF taking them as much as he wants, however, with his work schedule (6 am - 8 pm) it doesn't leave much additional time to take the kids. We have, though, started taking one of his two kids on Saturday or Sunday during our no kid weekends so that he can see them more, and I'm all for that. I want him to see his kids more and try to help him with that as much as possible. I just worry that no matter how much more time we make to see and be with his kids that unless he has them full time (which is simply not possible) he will always be 'missing' them & never able to accept whatever schedule is in place.
Like I said, I plan on speaking to him and having a good long talk this weekend. I don't want to get into it during the week when we both have work and such and end up not being able to have a full comprehensive talk about it. I'll let you know what happens...
This is truly a different
This is truly a different theme to what I am used to on this site. Mostly its about Stepparents trying to find solutions on how to deal with situations where the kids cause conflict. What I am readign here is that your BF is jealous of your relationship with HIS kids who LIKE you and your son.
I think some consideration should be given to his childhood. He grew up in a rather abnormal situation, and maybe he was afraid that you would reject his children the way his step father rejected him and his siblings. Its a very real fear to him because he's lived it. but as a 41 one year old man, one must give some thought to the fact that being an adult for so long, he should have identified that his situation was abnormal and that most adults do not operate on those levels. Sometimes hiding behind childhood traumsa make it easy for us to exist in the world. It does not make it functional, but easier.
I hear that you love him, and if this relationship is important to you, then couselling may really be great. I would advise that you speak to him to go seperately and together... that way he feels safe and free to discuss what he feels withoutyou there, and then when you have joint session, you're awarded the opportunity to discuss how you feel about his behaviour and how it impact on your lives.
Its difficult enough having to blend families, but normally the two people starting the relationship enter it with the intention for it to work and try and minimise any conflict, but to actively and consistently create conflict... that's bizzare.
All the best with whatever it is that you decide to do. Maybe "disengaging" is not such a bad idea in your situation. Although "disengaging" is advised for problem step kids, maybe disengaging in this case would help, as he seems territorial over the roles of him and his kids mother in their lives. Be an aunt, let him take care of his kids in a way that makes him feel like he's the dad, and his ex-wife is the mother. Be the "aunt"... keep your distance, and let your son have his friends over when
Hi Foxxystep! Your post
Hi Foxxystep! Your post really helped me to consider this in a different light. I'd always thought his childhood may have something to do with this jealousy issue and the way you described it makes perfect sense. He still often speaks, not kindly, of the step father he had (who has passed away) in a negative way. Possibly my BF fears that if he let's me too close I may reject his children eventually. I also think that as a child he had some jealousy of his step dad's relationship with his Mom and feels his Mom neglected and forgot him, especially after the new man came into her life.
I should note, though, that I have never tried to be a parent to his children in any way. I never went over board with them. I waited for them to come to me. In the beginning when I would do something for his children my BF would thank me and I told him he didn't have to thank me all the time and that I didn't necessarily do it for him, I did it for his kids. I just didn't want him to think that I was doing things for his kids with any ulterior motives or to impress him. It's just the type of person I am...I do for those I care about. I have tried to step back and "disengage" a bit over the past three or so months. It's hard though because the kids don't understand it. They still want my affection, attention and such. I try to plan activities and things that will take my son and I away at times so he can have time with his children alone and also so we can all be together. I stop myself from doing as much as I normally would for and with his kids in an effort to keep this jealousy at bay, but I don't feel natural when I do that. I'm used to being around kids and comfortable with other people's kids as I've cared for other's children a lot throughout my life. Maybe that has something to do with it. It's just when I try to disengage and blend into the woodwork when they are here it feels weird - it just doesn't feel right to me at those times. When we all come together as a "family"...for example, if we are all playing outdoors or we are all piled on the sofa watching a movie, that feels so right to me, but if I feel I have to constantly keep myself in check like that I feel tension. Still I think it is good for me to continue doing so. I just wonder if it will ever be enough? If I can ever give my BF enough time alone with his kids or if he'll never be happy unless he has them all to himself when he sees them.
Well, we did talk last night
Well, we did talk last night about this issue. I did some research on jealousy issues throughout the week and came up with some possible solutions for both of us. We agreed that counseling, as soon as we can afford it, both individually and together, would help. He is open to it but a bit leary of it as he didn't feel it worked when he went to marriage counseling with his ex. I explained this is totally different and more for him. He's just worried that he's a rather quiet person and it takes a lot for him to open up to people, but I told him that it would help everyone if he could. I also explained to him that if he feels he cannot share a single moment of his time with his kids with someone else that perhaps he is not ready to be in a relationship, and that no matter who he is with (me or another woman) this will probably always be an issue unless he gets the jealousy under control and learns to cope with it. He agreed but had never thought about it like that.
I found some techniques for him to try when he is feeling tense, jealous or agitated with the situation. I told him to just try to identify with what he is feeling and then rationalize it. Possibly, think to himself, "I'm jealous. Why? She would never take mine or their mother's place and they will never love her more than they love me." Then I suggested possibly if he can turn these negative thoughts into positive ones, such as, "I'm lucky to have a woman in my life that really likes my kids and that my kids like, etc." I also told him I didn't want him to worry about his kids getting too attached to me and then me disappearing or us breaking up. We both agreed if even for our kids sakes no matter what happens between us we will always be friends and our children will, for as long as they wish to, have a relationship with each of us and our kids. And my last suggestion was that when he is feeling jealous he find something that he likes to do - play guitar, football, archery and do that for a bit to relax him and get his mind off it.
We also have a plan to make certain he has enough time alone with his kids. He said he likes the way we have been doing things for the most part over the past few months. Instead of us all being together all the time, I usually try to set aside one day that he can spend alone with his kids and me with mine and I also try to step back and let him do things instead of doing them myself (when the kids ask for something or want to do something, I defer to him sometimes). I'm also going to start working on Saturdays which I think will help too. My son, most of the time will be with his Dad when I work on Saturdays so my BF will have the entire day alone with his kids. My BF agreed to work on the jealousy especially when I take his kids somewhere without him or do things for them. He understands that his daughter is VERY girly and as such doesn't like to always do what he does with the boys. She'd prefer to hang out with me when they are playing football or doing 'boy' things. I told my BF I'd try to teach him how to do some more girly things with her so that he could be included as well.
Oh, and the other thing I am going to start doing is if I buy something special for the kids or do something for them (as I often do - I'm a real softee at times) I'm going to give it to him to give to his kids. You know when I re-did his daughter's room with pretty pink decals and such I thought he'd be thrilled but he said, 'why can't I think of these things' and was kind of jealous. I told him not to be so hard on himself. He's a GUY and he's not necessarily going to hunt down "princess" decals and do that sort of thing. Still, I bought his daughter some new clothes this week (she loves clothes) and I've already given them to him to give to her when she gets here. I know she's going to love them and I think it will really make him feel good to give them to her. I could tell that when my sister gave her some clothes last weekend that she LOVED and was so into he was a bit jealous and wished he had gotten them for her. Of course it made me feel good to give them to her and have her be so excited to wear them and such, but I want him to have that feeling too!
Thank you all for your help, advice, ideas, and suggestions. I was really upset last week thinking this may never work and I may just have to cut my losses and run but now more than ever I feel that we can and will fix this and work it out. I am more than willing to work with him on these jealousy issues and help him identify why he has them and where they come from. He is more than worth it to me. No one is perfect and blending families is never easy. Although we have some unique struggles to over come, I'm now very optimistic that we will find a way to make it work. We are both committed to doing so. Thanks again!