I agree. The 4 pregnancies that BM had other than SS, all of those men (4 different men) were idiots. Complete idiots. The ONE that she TRIED to trap but couldn't seem to make it happen (her words) was smart enough to wrap it up even though she said she was on BC (which she wasn't). SS was not an accident. Somehow she actually convinced DH that having a baby with her was a great idea. I am still convinced that he is too embarrassed to admit that he is a poor sucker that didn't wrap it up when she said she was on BC, but I digress. He also is the only one that didn't force her to abort. He just left her instead and is the worlds best dad despite what a piece of shit SS's mom is.

What amazes me even MORE is that TWO of these pregnancies happened AFTER DH, and AFTER she slept with half the town and AFTER she got a NON curable STD. And BOTH of these men knew about it. They STILL didn't wrap it up.

Idiots.

OMG this sooo reminds me of BM#2, 3 kids 3 different dads and married to another man who she has no kids with, mind you her eldest son is some guy she had a fling with but pinned it on her ex husband who she was still married to when she got pregnant with SD. She's a piece of work that woman. She doesn't work, she lives off her CS and goes out and parties. But swears UP and Down she's a great mom...WHAT AN AMAZING EXAMPLE OF A WOMAN!

chokinonlemons I'm using the bear trap analogy when I do the if you don't want to deal with a women for the rest of your life......
It's never just till their 18.

double ugh

Yeah - but .... abstinence just flat out doesn't work.

Telling young healthy men and women not to have sex until they are ready to provide for a baby (for some that might be in their 30s) just isn't feasible.

In the olden days when terminating a pregnancy was a rusty hanger in a back room it was the women who had to worry about getting "knocked up" and guys giving a zillion excuses to the girl about how he wouldn't get her pregnant. In the 50s and to some extent in the 60s a teenage pregnancy was a fate worse than death - for the woman. With seldom any consequences for the man.

How the tables have turned. Now it's the guy who gets "stuck". Unfortunately the only really reliable BC is controlled by the woman. And now with DNA there's absolute proof about whose baby it is.

Glad I'm not a man and that I don't have sons. I have a SS but I don't give a damn about him.

No, they aren't innocent either, I agree. But a majority of the blame SHOULD be placed on the person who did the lying, not the person who got caught.

We hear all these stories about people who got lied to about pyramid scheme investments--no one forced them to give the guy money, yet what he committed was fraud. However, no one seems to place any blame on the victims. Why? Because they went into it trusting one person's word and then that person lied, and the only person who committed any wrong is the person who had lied to begin with.

We cannot place a double standard on an issue like sex and not on an issue like finances. The old people you hear who got caught by people who call their house fishing for information? It, in it's purest form, is ignorance in protecting themselves, but no one blames them because they simply weren't aware these things could happen--and some men genuinely AREN'T aware it could happen. The fishing stories are everywhere, and you'd expect those of that age would be aware of it and protect themselves. Doesn't always happen.

They may also have had classes in reproduction, but trust me, ask the average male on the street how ovulation, menstruation, and the fertility cycle works, what days are fertile, and why, they can't give a single good answer. Many girls don't even have the proper understanding of their own body's cycle, and we want guys to be experts at it.

I asked my DH if his parents ever mentioned to him the possibility of women trapping him, or if he had any friends that had it happen to them that they would be able to have given him some hint--for some odd reason (good little catholic school boy that he was) these topics were never brought up. Now, whenever his guy friends ask him advice on a slightly coocoo chick, he always advocates for them to run the other way and tells them his story--he said he wished someone would have warned him, so now he wants to help warn others. You can be damned sure if we ever have a boy, I'm plying him with stories of psycho women (like my parents plied me with stories of psycho men that ensured I'd be a virgin til I married).

My DH breathed a sigh of relief when he found out we were having a girl, he was so scarred that he was worried a son would be prone to making the same mistake. To be sure, he places most of the blame on himself. He kept asking himself why he couldn't see her crazy, and you know what, the truth is, some people are just THAT good.

I look at it this way--everyone does have a personal responsibility to protect themselves, however, lying is wrong, being crazy, or in love, does not excuse it. Having someone who is a willing participant does not excuse it. Otherwise, I'd have to place blame on abuse victims who get hurt over and over again, rape victims who went to a party and drank and didn't expect to be raped because they were under the impression it was "safe", I'd have to place blame on victims of financial fraud.

That poster for rape victims applies here as well: instead of telling girls not to wear revealing clothes, or go on dates with guys who they trust, teach your boys not to rape.

Instead of telling men (and women) not to have sex, teach the other person not to lie.

I know there is a huge push to use condoms - but quite frankly as a woman I would NEVER have trusted a condom to keep me from getting pregnant. That's like playing Russian Roulette.

As someone who grew up in the pre birth control era - I'd say that almost all of the kids my age were "condom" babies. People tried to have none but ended up with 3 or 4.

Sure they prevent a lot and should be used. But I never took a chance like that. But BC pills came out just as I finished high school.

I have NEVER had unprotected sex in one way or another because I DIDN'T/DON'T want to have kids. Nor do I want an STD or HIV/Aids.

Even when I was on BCP or using a diaphram, I always had the man use a freaking condom for backup. No condom, no sex. Period. Dot. End of story.

So the flip side of this is if a MAN doesn't want to have kids or catch a disease, then he better well use a condom and spermicide. I doesn't matter who he is having sex with or what she says, no condom, no sex.

It's just that simple. If they refused to use a condom with spermicide, then they knew they were taking risks. They are not victims, they are just dumb.

Women very much can be abusers. A friend of mine was on the board of directors for a domestic violence shelter in the San Francisco area. There were always a number of women who were fleeing abusing female partners.

I think if the people who think everyone shares the blame, even in DV situations, are at least brave enough to own up saying that they share part of the responsibility in staying. That's personal responsibility.

I thought I'd share here about one instance I had where I was a victim of sexual assault--nothing as traumatizing as rape, but being groped and touched when you clearly didn't want it, in the privacy of your own room, after you had gone to sleep leaving everyone else to party--that's a very scary ordeal to go through. But you know, I knew the guy for years, we were good friends, I didn't think he'd actually come into my room uninvited, lay down next to me, and try touching me in places I really didn't want him to, especially since I was asleep. But I also understand it was my fault--knowing there's alcohol in my house, people are drinking it, I didn't lock my door, my friends are getting trashed, and I should have been more careful. Maybe then I wouldn't have lost a friend. The very few people I told this to said the blame was all on him. I trusted him, and he broke that trust. But yes, I could have played my part in preventing it, if we wanted to get down to the nitty gritty of it. Do I think I share 50% of the blame or more? Maybe, some days I think I do, some days I think I don't. Am I a victim? I guess I saw myself as one, which might be why I see these men as "victims" too. The dictionary shows the word victim as

b : one that is tricked or duped

This is all IMHO. I think our difference in beliefs do not stop us from being good people, no matter how we feel about this specific issue. Everyone has been kind and supportive in each other's times of need. I just hope this won't divide us.