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Gifting Question

Amberelle11's picture

I am curious as to your guys opinion on something. Just a little background: We have been estranged from DH's oldest daughter (just turned 21 2 wks ago) for about 4 years now. The only time she would talk to DH is when she wanted money and whether she got it or not, she would go back to ignoring us anywhere from 6months to 2 years (or until she wants something again). She would fly off the handle if we said "No" or didn't help under her terms.

At the end of last year, she and her mom heard we bought a house (we have been renting for the last 4 years trying to save up) and decided to both launch an attack on us. The mom went to Child support claiming that DH was frauding the system and making more than was claimed. So CS had to investigate us. It was a waste of time as the results of the claim showed no fraud and her only win was that she got a £10 a month raise. At the same time, the daughter decided she was all the sudden entitled to child support to be paid directly come to her and sent us a signed deliver letter threatening to sue us for it under a UK Law she is not in any way qualified for. In the UK, if the child can prove that she is going to University full time and working full time and still can't make ends meet and her mother is destitute as well, the father can pay child support until she gets her bachelors degree. She did not work AT ALL as she refuses to, nor does her degree require her to go school full time. At the time, she was 6 months away from getting her bachelors degree (which she has now). Her mother married a wealthy man and they are not hard of money. Her mom & SD live in a gorgeous house in the country with lots of land next to a posh golf club the step dads family owns. They also own a vacation home in Cypress to which the daughter has already spent like 2 months this year visiting! My hubby and I haven't taken a vacation in a few years AND JUST finally bought our own place after 6 years together! We stood up to her phoney law suite threat. In the nicest but firm way possible, we basically explained why she did not qualify for the law suite and how the expense to file would be greater then what she would be entitled to receive, but we also said we will do our counter proposal signed contract if that is what she wants saying that we will give her a bit less then what she was threatening to sue for in monthly payments and pay it till July this year. We also told her we loved her, but would not allow her to treat us this way any more and that there would be boundaries on how we would interact with her if she choose to still go down this behavioural path. We told her we would always welcome her in our home with love and open arms, but we are not an ATM machine that she only comes to when she wants money and hurls abuse at. If she wants money, she needs to have a relationship with us too. We showed this letter to my parents and DH's parents who thought it was a very well written. We sent it and it obviously didn't go down well as she refused our financial help and now has made it clear she wants NOTHING AT ALL to do with us (she just re-affirmed this to DH's parents this the other week when she went to visit them).

Sorry for the long story, but it will help with the question I am going ask: Knowing that she has been rejecting a relationship with us for years now and abusing us for money and now saying she wants no relationship at all with us at this point, do you guys still send Christmas and Birthday cards and money? We sent her a card and £150 for her 21st birthday 2 wks ago to which she never thanked us for. I just don't see the point of sending her money for Christmas or any future events. I might be nice enough to send a card, but whats the point really? I don't want to buy her attention any more though and I feel guilty about it. My DH is in the same boat as me.

Your opinions on this?

jam's picture

IMHO sending her gifts, cards, money, only encourage her bad behavior. She treats you horribly and then gets a card with money in it. I say STOP IT!

My skids treated us horribly too. all three kids at one time would have nothing to do with us. We now have a relationship with OSD. The yss went over a year without speaking to us. When he came back into our life's, he never apologized for anything. We let him live in a rental we own (rent free). All he had to do was pay the utilities,which were in my name to save him from having to pay a deposit. We gave him a nice car. He moved out of our rental & moved in with a girlfriend. He left the place totally trashed, dog poop & pee all over the carpet, left so much junky furniture that we filled a trailer to haul it all off. He left us with a large utility bill. AND he stole the washer & dryer we provided the rental.

My msd was living with her boyfriend and was pregnant. Her bm gave a baby shower at the bm's. I was invited and did not want to go because they have treated me so crappy over the years. My dh pressured me to go as he did not want his dd to feel slapped, so I went. I made a beautiful Diaper Tricycle which was made up of diapers, receiving blankets, baby cloths, etc. The bm & my msd were kind (superficial kindness). That was the last them we have seen them (over 5 years ago). We were excluded from the birth of her baby, then she got married and we were excluded from that. Now she has another baby and we have not seen it either.

We had been very good to these kids and gave much. you see how we were rewarded. I say if someone is going to hate me, they can do it without gifts.

Amberelle11's picture

That's how I feel! We are just rewarding bad behaviour and its not bringing her back around. Thanks for giving me your thoughts!

bah's picture

Yeah, no. Why? Gifting isn't duty. It's something you do for someone you care about, and for someone who cares about you. What's that line - 'don't love anything that can't love you back" That would be many of the skids we write about.

I realized that the only time we'd been invited to OSD's home for a meal was when DH "loaned" them a huge chunk for the down payment on their first home purchase. She's lived nearby for about 10 years. . ..yeah, no. I buy my adult kids token gifts on B'days - card and silly little thinking of you things, and usually something bigger at winter holidays. But these are people who take on the hassle and expense to fly home to visit us. YSD has been in the area visiting her sister 5 times in the past 6 months and hasn't even told DH she was in town until she was leaving or had left.

I think part of the problem is that the parents of these skids (I include my DH) won't let them grow up. They infantalize the kids, making excuses or accepting crappy behavior that would be completely unacceptable in another adult and if we're lucky, they wake up to the fact that their kids are users. But these are their babies, so you know. . .. a tear or two changes the dynamic once again.

bah

just bah

Amberelle11's picture

Yes THIS!!!
My DH does it out of feeling guilty. But he has nothing to feel guilty over! She left him and 6 months later married another man and has done nothing but be vile and pit the kids in-between them! It's all just bah!! haha!

Amberelle11's picture

Yeah, we are losers to her whether we give money or not.
One time we paid her car insurance for her (over £800!) and she turned around, ignored us for 6 months and told our friends kids my DH was a deadbeat dad! I almost lost it!

I think she just needs to get on with life now without us.

Amberelle11's picture

Yeah I don't dictate to my DH either. He will ask my opinion and I try to give it in the kindest way possible. He has brought it up to me a few times over the last couple days as he sent her the bday money and she has not said a thank you at all (she used to send a text with just a "thanks" on it, and can't be bothered to do even that now). its really been eating at him, so he keeps bringing it up. He asked my opinion today and I told him it did make me feel a bit guilty to say just leave her to it now, but I think its the best thing. We have put the ball in her court and told her we love her and our door is always open when she wants a RELATIONSHIP. So she needs to make that decision now. Her current decision is to have no relationship and I think personally that implies all that goes with it (which means no money and contact). Right now by giving her money, we are just teaching her that she can have her cake and eat it too.

Thanks for your advice!

Amberelle11's picture

She has not said Happy Birthday, Happy Father's Day, Merry Christmas or Happy New Years to him in years! (and has never wished me a happy anything!) but I tell you what, the minute we miss out sending her something, we will get berated I promise as she tried to do that one year when she claimed we didn't send a Christmas card when we did on top of calling and texting multiple times to say the same thing and see how she was doing...Immaturity and greediness is her speciality though!

I'm not bothered by her, but it's hard to see my DH upset. Though I am noticing he is starting to care less and less now. So perhaps we will get to a point soon where its out of site, out of mind.

Amberelle11's picture

That's what I have said. I told my dh today I felt we were rewarding her bad behaviour. Allowing her to "have her cake and eat it too".

I'm personally done with it. Thanks for your thoughts! Its nice to know I am not alone!

dood's picture

Please pardon the brute language but: Fuck No.

As far as you and your DH are concerned, (well, YOU anyway) this person no longer exists. Period. Dot.

Sorry for all the crap you've had do endure. But it seems you are finally free!

Wishing you love and happiness in you new home! Congratulations!

Amberelle11's picture

Haha! Thank you! You took the words out of my own mouth! I just don't feel like I can say that to him!

Thank you for the congrats on the home! I am so excited as it is the first I have EVER owned! Looking forward to many PEACEFUL days here! haha!

Thanks for responding!

notasm3's picture

Here are all the reasons you should keep sending gifts and money:
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Gosh - Couldn't find a single reason to put on that list.

Rags's picture

On this I would take the high road. Keep sending cards if you wish. With out without money. Your call. But .... never cave in to her manipulative extortion of your money. You and DH give gifts on your terms and never on hers.

Make sure to take a pic of every card and money if you include it. Keep a record. So when she claim you have nothing to do with her you can bare her ass nicely. Better yet, don't send cash. Send a personal check so that you have proof that she cashed the check or not. And mail the card delivery confirmation so that you have poof that it was delivered and she can't play the she did not get it game.

We send the Sperm Clan a spreadsheet/invoice twice a year of the more than $10K they owe us for their share of the Skid's medical bills that were not covered by insurance. We may or may not sue them for it eventually but for damned sure we make sure they know that we have them by the short and curlies and that they cannot delude themselves that they are people who are worth a shit. Delivery confirmation confirms that it was delivered to their home. }:)

Be nice .... until it is in your best interests to not be nice and have fun.

IMHO of course.

Amberelle11's picture

Lol! Love the "be nice...until it is in your best interest to not be nice and have fun." lol! I might need to steal that! Yeah, I have no problems sending her a card, I just don't think she deserves our hard earned cash! Maybe I am being greedy, but why should I give money to a kid that is telling our family members she wants nothing to do with us and goes out of her way to be a manipulating bullying ass?

Yikes $10k! :jawdrop: I can't complain that badly! I hope you can get it! Good luck!

Rags's picture

Yes, it is a pretty nice chunk if money but not as bad as it sounds. It compiled over 18 years. The oldest portion is the $400 he owes for when SS (stb 23) was born. So on average it was about $600/yr mostly accrued in $25 copay increments for doc visits and Rxs. The biggest chunks other than this $400 share of the Skid's birthing costs have been a broken arm, two front teeth knocked out when his mouth met a curb in a bicycle crash, and prescription glasses and contacts.

Amber Miller's picture

My SD 30 did the same exact thing! She made it clear to daddy that she wants nothing to do with him while he's married to me. She demanded he leave me if he wants a relationship with her. She told him that he has chosen to support a "stranger " instead of his "own daughter" :sick:
She blames me for EVERYTHING that's wrong in her life. Told her dad she had to work as a stripper when she was in her mid twenties as he didn't provide enough financial support. He was paying for her car, car insurance, paid off tickets, and toll evasions and also gave her $500 a month in cash. This went on for 4 years. Her brand new car cost $25,000 and daddy took princess to pick it out. She got whatever her little heart desired yet it's not enough.
She has launched an attack against us via email even though we haven't heard from her in the past 2 years ( it has been wonderful without her constant drama). She makes one bad decision after the next.
The last Xmas card that was sent with $100 was sent to the ungrateful bitch over 2 years ago. Princess said she was sending it back. We are still waiting to receive it. She ended the last email by saying " why aren't I entitled to what other fathers give their daughters without question?" Crazy bitch! I've never heard of a law where it says you have to support your 30 year old loser daughter who can't make good decisions. Oh and she decided to have a baby and chain smoke cigarettes during her pregnancy. The baby was born with a lot of health problems. She caught an STD during her pregnancy as well. I'm just telling you this do you can see how she doesn't take responsibility for her actions and makes HORRIBLE decisions that she blames on her father and I. Her child has special needs and can't walk or talk. The child makes a strange screeching sound. It's very tragic and sad. Poor baby needs a mother who can put the child's needs before her own.
She doesn't call her father on Father's Day or his birthday. She no longer gets her token $100 for her birthday and Xmas. She gets nothing and she deserves nothing just as your skid deserves nothing. NOTHING!!!!!!!
When we do our will, I am going to suggest that we leave her $1. My DH calculated that he paid over $200,000 in child support for her and she has the audacity to say that he didn't support her financially as a child. Idiot bitch. She will get $1 if I get my way. Then I want it written that if she contests the will that she gets NOTHING!!!!!!!!
If we aren't good enough to talk to then she's not good enough to get our money. She deserves exactly what she gets; you guessed it! NOTHING!!!!!!!!!
If your DH continues on with the birthday and Xmas cards with money then he is rewarding bad behavior. It needs to stop. Just like my SD, yours has made it clear that she wants nothing to do with daddy. Why should he send her anything or acknowledge her? She doesn't deserve it and your DH will look foolish if he continues to reward her. She is emotionally abusing him. Why would you reward someone for abusing you? Would you send your neighbor an Xmas card if he treated you like shit? Maybe that's not a good analogy but I think you get my point.

Amberelle11's picture

Ohh goodness! I am sorry you had to deal with all that! I suppose I am lucky in the fact that she doesn't have kids or anything. But a lot of the character is the same, trying to manipulate with guilt and harsh below the belt blows at him. Really immature temper-tantrums when she doesn't get her way, etc.
I personally refuse to talk to her and see her. I think DH is getting there as well. Your points were great! thank you!

Amber Miller's picture

Hi Amberelke11
Thanks for your response and your welcome. It's been horrible to deal with her. Apparently the nasty brat has sent another email but DH hasn't read it yet. I don't know what she thinks she's going to accomplish by being nasty to us. I guess its just a result of a life of having everything handed to her on a silver platter. The good thing is that my DH is done with her. He says she's just like her mother and he is too old to deal with her craziness. It took years for him to get to this point. I think she's fantasizing that daddy will cave to her demands but sorry, he's not leaving our 9 year relationship to please her. She ends up with nothing in the end. You take care and I appreciate your comments.
Amber

Amberelle11's picture

Actually, that is a really good idea! Never thought of it and will mention it to him!

Thanks! Biggrin

sandye21's picture

My suggestion is to only send a card - no money once. Then wait for her to reciprocate. If she doesn't, the next time she demands money say you will not be giving her any money because you don't want her to feel obligated to you when you need help.

Amberelle11's picture

Haha! I could imagine her face if we were to say that to her! Cracks me up! I love it! Thank you!

Jsmom's picture

Nothing... if you choose not to have a relationship with us, then you get nothing... door is open for reconciliation, but must apologize for the crap she pulled, then we can move on and you can have the benefits of being in a family.

AVR1962's picture

Sounds like some parental alienation going on here, BM is trying to get SD to side with her and feels justified in taking your husband for any dime they can get. Oldest SS does not have contact with us and we give no presents. My husband sends him an email on his bday and for Christmas. My oldest daughter has been much the same way as well, sides with her bio dad who has bad mouthed me terribly to my children to win their love and affection. I have been giving presents but it feels all she wants from us is money, free trips, and gifts. She just recently took me off her friend's page on FB (as well as her husband and children), will not answer her phone or reply to emails. I won't be standing there with my hand out offering presents anymore. She is 34 years old and this crap is still going on? It gets real old!! Save yourself the conflict, if you do anything, send a card but that's it. Presents are intented for those who are in our lives and want to be a part of it.