How far would you be willing to go to keep your BK?
Approx. 4 more years and I should be able to break free of my situation. (please read my other blogs if you need to catch up)
Going crazy as it was not knowing if I could make it and now this.
DW has informed me that she would like to be a "polyamorous" couple.
For those not familiar with the lifestyle, it is not "swinging" or just having sexual relations with others. It is a lifestyle where you have "intimate" relationships with others with the full knowledge of everyone involved.
Ok...I get it. We haven't been intimate in quite some time. It's hard to find romance in a world filled with friction, resentment and negativity. It's been no party for me either, but this isn't the solution. It is the start of the inevitable demise.
I told her I would have to think about it. She seemed excited about the idea that I would consider it and I know she is going to expect a response from me soon.
I would suspect that she already has someone in mind, but can't imagine how that could be as we are literally together 24/7 99% of the time. I do suspect, she is wanting a "license" to go out and explore the possibilities while visiting her parents in a couple of weeks.
Now...before you "haters" attack her, I am okay with her having any relationship she wants. I am not a jealous person and I am secure in who I am and my own self worth. If she can fulfill whatever "need" she feels she is lacking, I will be happy for her and wish her luck.
The problem is...IT'S TOO DAMN SOON! If I go this route, it will not take 4 years for her to find a "replacement". (I am not stupid, of course that is what she is hoping for)
If I go along, I may be able to stall things but 4 years is a long time to put up with a lifestyle you don't want. We're both straight and I have no desire to date other women (heck...not sure I remember how! LOL) so this means "guys only" unless I decide to date other women. OMG my life is difficult enough as it is, why would I even consider dating anyone right now? I'd freak them out faster than having this discussion with DW did to me!
She basically wants to "date" other guys with my knowledge as there is no way she could pull it off without me knowing and clearly feels something is lacking. There is no way she would agree to letting me have my son should she decide to move on with someone else and that is the issue. I will NOT destroy her or attack her in front of her children with an ugly custody battle. She is not a bad person, she simply has needs I openly admit that I do not fulfill and recognize I am not (nor ever was) the "right" one for her. I have similar desires, but don't feel that it would be right to bring anyone else into this mess and casual sex just doesn't do it for me.
For now, I am pretending to go along. I suspect she will explore things in Canada. It will be interesting to see if she "shares". I doubt it and I am not concerned about it. Anyone she meets up there is of little threat as she won't have enough time to do more than casual sex without the kids noticing. It's the one's she wants to "date" around here I worry about.
I am really lost for ideas on how to keep things together until BS8 is old enough to be able to choose what he wants and (hopefully) not have him ripped from my existence when DW & I inevitably part ways.
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^^Everything Echo said. IMHO,
^^Everything Echo said. IMHO, it's time to end this farce of a marriage and get out NOW. Think of your son.
He has already lost a child
He has already lost a child to a divorce where she absconded, kid lost to him forever not just a broken home. Yes, it's a trainwreck but his fears are well founded.
IS that the kind of
IS that the kind of relationship you want BS to have?
He doesn't like her. This
He doesn't like her. This marriage is already dead to him.
You are going down a long
You are going down a long road of destruction, having an "open relationship" is what your wife is asking for.
This will only build more anger, rejection and feelings of resentment.
Your wife has not only come to terms with her relationship being over, but she has now also moved on and ready to date again even though you are still technically married.
I'm really sorry to hear about you situation. I've seen it all happen before to people, and I'm so sorry that you are going through this.
Yikes...I am going to be the
Yikes...I am going to be the odd one out here. If you think you can get 50/50, I would divorce ASAP. But...if you can not get 50/50, I would stay. Make sure your son is not exposed to your wifes "lifestyle" (YUK). You can protect him if you still live there. Make sure you pigeon hole money. Make sure to NOT make any large purchases. Prepare for the next 4 years.
The reason I advise this is because you obviously do not love her, so you will not be hurt by her going out and such. But the main reason is because of your son. My kids were raised without a father. My DHs kid were raised by TWO divorced parents. You would think to feel sorry for my kids due to no father. But I saw the horror of what SS went through with the back and forth and ugliness and PAS. It was terrible. Read on here of what some of these skids are put through and try to figure the lesser of two evils. IMHO..the lesser would be to stay and give your son a stable life as long as you can.
I would also get a post nup ASAP. Tell your wife you are ok with this, but to protect yourself you want a post nup that states you get custody of your son if she ends up wanting a divorce.
From what I know of
From what I know of polyamorous relationships they are only as strong as the central couple are strong. Do some reading on it, involve your wife in those discussions, get her to accompany you to some local ploy support groups or poly friendly therapists and get her to really understand what it means and how you two could make it work. It isn't something that you two can walk into over night. It requires a lot of communication, trust, understanding, sensitivity and a hell of a lot more communication. It is also something that you both need to be into or the relationship will fail.
From the way you describe it, your wife wants to play around and wants to not feel guilty about it so she has come up with this get around. For some couples this can work, although it isn't a very stable relationship and feelings can get hurt a lot. You could try giving her the benefit of doubt and try to understand her thought process behind this all and see where that leads you two.
Ultimately I think your time might be better spent finding a great fathers rights lawyer who will fight for you to have custody of your son (or 50/50 or whatever you want). Position yourself as the main caregiver to increase your chances. If I was in a relationship that was failing and I was male I don't think that I could wait 4 years before leaving for the sake of a son, who at 12 may or may not decide he wants to live with you in front of a judge that may or may not decide to follow your sons wishes. Too much is unknown, too much time is wasted, too much of your energies are being invested in failing a relationship when you could begin building a new life for you and your son.
Four years is a long time to
Four years is a long time to waste. We only get one shot at living our lives.
http://divorcehelp360.com/9-p
http://divorcehelp360.com/9-pitfalls-of-an-open-marriage/
^^^ AGREE ^^^ If there is
^^^ AGREE ^^^
If there is ANYTHING, ANYTHING AT ALL I can say to you MainelyaMess that you would consider in making this decision it is this:
Is this what you want your son growing up thinking love looks like?
He WILL base his future relationship on what examples you set, is this what you want him to believe love looks like?
I've seem a couple and children go through the wife wanting an open relationship and the husband not wanting it, it became a horrible mess and only got worse, the children witnessed it all and the mess the parents had because of it between them and there WAS permanent mental scaring of both parents, resulting in divorce, and the children witnessed it all in its full horror.
When it goes bad, it goes VERY bad
Hey, everybody, it's not that
Hey, everybody, it's not that simple. Yes, the situation is intolerable and something was bound to burst. So it has.
But in a nutshell he fears his wife will take his little kid to Canada never to return. This is deadly because for some mysterious reason Mainely can't go back to Canada. I like this part of the story, let's say he was caught spying for Greenland. So groovy.
Mainely has another child who was whisked away by the mother when the marriage went south. Through PAS and other shenanigans, that kid is lost to Mainely forever. So Mainely has real reason to fear the same thing will happen to this child. Very painful. No wonder he wants to proceed carefully.
Sounds like more reasons to
Sounds like more reasons to lawyer up and work out an exit plan. Getting hold of the kids passport(s) and putting them in a security deposit box somewhere. Finding out his legal rights, getting all the info he can on his wife's Canadian ID's so that if she bolts he can try to track her. Finding out names and addresses of her Canadian family and friends. This relationship is going to end at some point, better to be prepared.
What he does in the mean time is immaterial really. If she wants to have an affair she will, with or without his permission. It sounds like she does have some sort of moral sense or she wouldn't feel guilt and try to legitimize it by saying she wants to be polyamorous.
The other way to protect your kid OP is to work on your relationship with your wife, I've not read your other blogs, but therapy etc, trying to rekindle the intimacy and love in your relationship could all go a long way to making you both want to stay together.
Oh, those are great ideas,
Oh, those are great ideas, Bethanne! He's lucky you saw this thread!
You think she has someone
You think she has someone lined up, but she might already be involved and in the middle of an affair. Ask her straight out, who's the other guy. The strange thing about this is that it seems temporary. If she finds her soul mate she'll ditch you. Her new partner may even be able to help with the expense of legal fees. Why wait? Take action while you have equal standing. Take 50% custodial time and legal. Make sure you have a "no move clause" in the agreement so she doesn't relocate with him. Believe me, my husbands ex sounds like your DW. If he had taken action and control earlier on he would have saved his relationship with his daughter. Someone as manipulative as your dw can do a number on her kids. She sounds like a crazy BM in the making. You need to establish %50 or more custody before she starts playing mind games with him too. I say him too because I think she's got you pretty tweeted if you think for one minute this is a livable situation. Good luck to you.
That is one of two things I
That is one of two things I would NEVER put up with. A total deal breaker.
Has your wife told you what is lacking or what she is seeking?
Have you guys gone to counseling?
Before you agree to something you are not okay with ask her to lay it out for you, WHY?
If she tells you it is something lacking then try to fix it if that is what you want. I would strongly suggest counseling even if just for you. You need to be more self confident and KNOW YOUR OWN SELF WORTH!
Wow...I knew there would be
Wow...I knew there would be many who would not get it and advise exactly as they did. So let me explain a few things as I see them.
First off, let me thank the few supporters who do understand that sometimes it's not about "ME" and what "I" want (and/or) need. Specifically ChiefGrownup & Willow.
I take offense to those who feel I am "dysfunctional" or in some manner incapable of making a rational decision. If you can open your minds up to the concept that there is a bigger picture, you may learn something from my troubles.
I am 52. I have dealt with strife and misery many times. I am capable of surviving most anything. This is a situation of my making and one that I must deal with. This is NOT my BS problem. He is not capable of dealing with the hatefulness of divorce and loss of separation of immediate family. He has HB (half-brothers?) who are his siblings with all the love and attachment there should be.
All of you who suggest I should file for divorce, pack up and leave or any other manner of ending the marriage should consider the ramifications to my BS as well as my Skids (who, yes, frustrate the crap out of me). Not to mention the financial destruction it would reek on everyone.
Yes...if I were to be selfish enough to only consider MY wants and/or needs, that would be a course to take. However, I do not harbor the kind of hatefulness that action would require.
I am showing my son how to handle a situation in the most considerate & caring manner possible even if it is a difficult one. He has no clue about anything "lacking" in his Mommy's and Daddy's life, nor should he. He's 8 and he sings and dances randomly and is only concerned with the latest Pokemon versions. Who wants to ruin that? I so love watching him, there is no way I am shattering his little paradise as he knows it.
The relationship with DW is not a hateful one. I recognize that we were not "THE" ones for one another. (I didn't say I always make the right choices, did I?)
The problem....(please pay attention here)....is....
IF we were to split up now, I would inevitably be cast into the role of "part-time" Daddy and will likely have much less interactions with my BS. He would be crushed and have to deal with the confusion of other guys in his life as pseudo "dads". The loss of all that he now knows and loves. At 8 it would be awful. Even at 10 or 12 it will be hard but with every year that I can keep things "livable" is another year for his understanding to develop and for his paradise to continue. Yes, it is inevitable. Paradise will someday end for him, I am simply hoping to postpone it as long as possible to ensure our relationship continues as strong and for as long as it can.
She is likely not going anywhere until the SK16 is out of high school in 2 years. I am hoping for 4 years as I feel 12 is an age where understanding the complexities of life can be comprehended better. Especially if I use the years beforehand to teach patience, compassion and understanding.
When the inevitable occurs, I am hoping for an amicable parting of ways where my relationship with my BS won't be effected as severely as it would be should it occur today.
My BS hopefully will learn how to deal with an incompatible relationship in a manner that is as non-destructive as possible.
He will never know of my sacrifice, but will see in what manner I carry myself.
I have decided to figure out ways for her to get the attention she is craving while limiting the opportunity for anything to develop into anything meaningful.
I don't forget that SHE could leave at any point if she suspects that we are over. She is not as likely to consider the bigger picture and it will be a sad day indeed. Especially if she is advised to "take care of yourself first" (what a crock)
I feel time is infinite and do not have a sense of a "ticking clock" so I am not concerned about the lost years. I am not saying they are pleasant ones, but they will go faster for me than they will for my son. Especially if the worst were to occur and he were to lose his goodnight hugs & kisses from Daddy.
I just need the comfort of knowing that others care when things are tough. To those who understand and have offered that comfort. I say THANK YOU!
Nah, I get what you're
Nah, I get what you're saying. I even understand that you believe it. I'm just not sure I agree with your reasoning. From what I see (and from what I've read) the teen and preteen years are probably the WORST time for a child to have his parents divorce. They get ANGRY. And they withdraw from BOTH parents. Sometimes they turn instead to bad influences. It puts them in a tough spot. Younger kids feel sad, even angry, but they don't withdraw - they still turn to their parents for help and comfort. Oh, and I wouldn't place too much faith in him learning what you think you're modeling. Kids never do - often they take away something completely different. And an angry teenager? Is going to interpret your current actions in the worst possible light. (To be fair, I'm kind of rolling my eyes at your overly dramatic "He will never know of my sacrifice, but will see in what manner I carry myself." Which might be coloring my judgement. So take my opinion with a grain of salt, but I still wouldn't dismiss it outright.)
I get that you don't want to be a "part time dad". That's why quite a number of people were advising you to talk to a lawyer NOW about your options and possible outcome. Get some professional advice. Find out if there's anything you can do to increase your chances of being custodial, or at least getting 50/50. Many court orders include language prohibiting either parent from moving more than X miles if there's a 50/50 split, unless they're willing to give up their time. Go find out what the law is in your state, and what judges are likely to do in your area.
I understand that you're "hoping" for 4 years. But what you're not hearing is that a lot of people are telling you that you're unlikely to get it so start preparing now. Don't bury your head in the sand and keep repeating "4 more years". People who act like martyrs get crucified. So maybe you should start looking into how to protect yourself instead.
I hated my dad through out my
I hated my dad through out my teenage years. I still loved him, but I hated him. He did nothing in particular wrong. My parents stayed together, they are still together, they have a great relationship. Teenagers will end up preferring one parent over the other, or sometimes hating both their parents. You martyring yourself to your marriage is not going to prevent your son possibly turning around and hating you.
TBH reading your post you sound a bit melodramatic, your marriage doesn't sound that bad, it sounds tolerable and if you could put some effort into it you might be able to rescue it, but you seem to be resigned to the fact that the women in your life will always screw you over (or rather you won't screw her so she will go off and screw someone else).
You seem a bit stuck in the mud, not willing to work on where you are, not willing to work on a real plan to leave other than a vague four year dream when your son reaches the mystical age of 12 and will be enlightened and no longer feel the pain of his parents separating.
To answer your original question about the polyamorous relationship, yes I would consider it for my marriage, but I would go into it wholeheartedly and not use it as a temporary band aid. It sounds like what you want to let your wife have is an open relationship which is different to a polyamorous one. The clue is in the name. Polyamory is truly allowing your partner to love other people and accepting that a person can love more than one partner at a time. An open relationship allows partners to seek sex out side of the marriage. Both can have various "rules" that those involved agree to, which can overlap, but those are the basic differences. If your wife is seeking a polyamorous relationship and you are willing to allow an open relationship, you might both get stung. As I said in my previous post communication is key, you two need to talk over ALL the potential outcomes and how it is going to affect you both and what you are both willing and not willing to allow.
Well
I am absolutely aching for you right now. There's your wife, spelling out for you the exact plan of how she's going to work her way out of your marriage and you are wondering how to keep it together long enough for your son to have a happy childhood. *hugs*
Speaking from the experience of having a skid who was raised in that type of sneaking environment, I suggest you don't do it. No matter how much you try to hide it, the kids see. They overhear a phone call or catch one of you kissing the non parent on the sly. But then you are pretending to be a happy family, essentially lying to them. They doubt themselves, they doubt you. You'll spend years preparing for this divorce and custody battle but to them it's sudden and jarring. One day he's dancing to the Pokémon theme and the next mommy is crying and daddy is telling the movers what to pack. Or my absolute favorite- not mentioning the divorce for over a year and pretending the other parent is just away for business and will be home soon. Just so you don't shatter their "perfect" little world for a few more weeks, months, one more year.
I have been the divorce route
I have been the divorce route before. 50/50 custody is a pathetic reason for 100% destruction.
Best I can hope for is that she decides to "go find herself" after the oldest SK graduates and leaves my son with me so she is free to "take care of HER needs".
Worst case...someone advises her to think of her needs and convinces her that "it's better for the child" to leave right away. After all, kids always "get over it" much better than teens. Teens who are angry because they never knew the love of a Dad.
Oh well...what do I know? (something I say all the time with the SKids, so why not here as well! LOL)
Stop
Stop giving her all the power. Stop sitting there moping and saying you can't do anything but sit there and mope. Go see a lawyer, go see a therapist. Get advice and get your ducks in a row. Go see a bunch of lawyers so you have your choice and her pool of good ones is shallow. Let her find a new thing in Canada. Good luck talking a judge into letting her take the kid to another country.
Or, get a babysitter for a long weekend, take her on a mini vacay and shag her brains out.
Your situation sucks all the
Your situation sucks all the way around. But in all actuality, a 4 year exit plan is not unheard of. Some of the women that said you should leave ASAP are in terrible marriages and have already been working on their exit plan for many years so it is strange to me that they are advising that.
Good luck, it is going to be a hard road ahead. It may hurt more than you think when you know your wife is out with another man. I can not even wrap my brain around that concept in a marriage.
If your dw is capable of
If your dw is capable of being poly-amorous, while raising an 8 yo child with you she has absolutely no respect for you or your child, or the men she plans to date, or herself. And also makes me think she is capable of child abuse, and PAS. She is only concerned for her self. My DH sounded exactly like you, in the way he viewed his previous marriage. And he and sd got screwed over big time. Yes you are taking the high road, being the nice guy, I get that , and it's honorable. But it sounds like sweet lemons. I think you have a lot of fears and a lot of guilt. I don't say this to be mean or judgmental. I'm saying this from experience. No age is a good age to have your parents split up, now or later, both come with their own pitfalls. I'm just saying you can't ask dw to stick around four 4 years on a long leash. She's going to go as soon as she can, if she's not already emotional gone. If she's committed to you and bs she will remain monogamous and not dating until you both agree to part ways. Agreeing to let her have other relationships is not setting a good example for your son. You're in denial if you think it's going to prolong your time with bs, it's going to expedite the end "paradise".
Ooh boy. Mainly, there is no
Ooh boy.
Mainly, there is no judgement coming from me. I speak plainly as a man who has friends who were in polyamorous relationships. I do not think ill of polyamorous relationships (suffice to say that it is not for me but anyways...). Polyamorous relationships, just like any relationship, needs to have a certain level of maturity, trust and understanding. Too often I see my friends jump into this thing because it is outside of mainstream society and they "just want to be different" OR they pursue a polyamorous relationship thinking that it will "enhance" and spice up their existing lives. In those cases it didn't last. I've only seen one polyamorous couple(s) last and that is because their living situation is a little off the norm ...They are all members of a medieval reinactment group and live and breathe this stuff. So everyone involved is also passionate about a particular hobby that they all have in common.
Anyways, just thought I'd throw this little tidbit of data to you. I hope in the end you make the best decision for you.
Mainly, I can relate to what
Mainly,
I can relate to what you a going through and can totally understand your thinking having watched my own SKs go between 2 households and all the PAS from my husbands ex and seeing all the damage it has permanently caused... I think you should also be a bit proactive in as much if she decides to leave before your 4 years....like I don't know what your actual problem is with getting into Canada but there are waivers you can get..albeit expensive to obtain...but contacting a Canadian immigration office could at least help you to find out what you would need IF something did happen