The fallout from SS being a lying little liar
So last time skids were with us, SS17 admitted lying about going to his ex gf's house when he tells us he's going to the gym. He didn't care at all that he lied and said "I think I'll find a way to live with myself". DH told him he was very disappointed since there was no reason to lie, and now trust is broken. This all happened the night before they left for Crazy's, so we had a whole week to sit with it. I recommended consequences, DH of course balked and had only planned on "talking to" SS. The biggest thing was SS's complete lack of remorse or care about breaking trust- I don't see how you just let that fly.
When SS got here Mon, DH actually went at him pretty hard- and took part of my recommendation about consequences, so SS wasn't allowed to go to his gf's or the gym all week (we have a home gym right outside SS's bedroom door). Which is weak IMO, but better than nothing. THEN- I happened to look at our ins. app and noticed that SS had lied to DH about going to work on Sun- there were no trips to work that day. I was livid. DH got home from work and SS happened to walk in 10 minutes later and was just SO cocky, it was hard to watch- he started saying he should be "employee of the year", and then took DH's glass of wine and tried chugging it. DH had to yank it out of his hand. I kind of snapped internally, but casually asked, So SS, did you work on Sun? He said, "Sunday? Well I drove there at 8am, but they sent me home because they said I wasn't on the schedule". Which is a lie- he has an electronic schedule and would clearly be able to see he wasn't on it. I said, Are you sure? He said, yeah i promise, I went there and they sent me home. I said again, Are you sure? SS stuck to his story. DH looked at me and said, Do you know he didn't go? I said, well the app doesn't show him going, it shows him being in another town all day. DH looked at the app and said, you're lying to us again?? We JUST talked about what that does, I already am doubting everything you say, and now you're lying again?? SS slapped his hand on the counter like HE was mad and said, "I have lots of comments I would love to make right now". I honestly thought DH's head was going to spin around. He absolutely lost it and was screaming at SS, he went upstairs and took SS's gaming cords, and was like, you think you're going to be aggressive to ME after we just caught you lying AGAIN?? I haven't seen him that mad at SS in ages.
When DH had calmed down, we talked a little, and As we were talking Crazy sent a message on OFW demanding DH give her SS's laptop- the 3 of them had split the cost last year to buy SS one, and it has since broke, so DH was going to look at fixing it. DH had told SS that I can get a new work laptop and buy my current one for $100 (it's nice), and DH would buy it for SS for college. SS's response was very unenthusiastic and he said, "Why do I get leftovers?". Are you serious, you entitled brat?! DH took SS's broken laptop, tossed it on his bed, and said, "Figure it out, I'm not buying you a new computer". Since that day, Crazy has sent 2 more messages demanding the computer, and threatened to call the authorities since she "paid for 1/3rd of it". (Apparently her 1/3rd trumps DH and SS's 1/3rd). DH told her to Go ahead and call the cops since she is used to looking Crazy, and that. SS has had the laptop since Tue, but if she is too dumb to ask him about it herself, then he can't help with that.
Thankfully I was I was gone this wknd, but my brother and some of our friends were all at a brewery in town during the day on Sat, and my brother text DH to come hang out, so he did. Which I was excited about, because they don't hang out ever. What did DH do? Invited SS to meet them there also... So I'm in Vegas with my friends, getting snapchats from everyone of SS sitting by DH at the bar. DH even sent a selfie of them. WHY does a 17yr old need to be at the bar with adults?? (they serve food, which is why it's allowed, but they were all sitting at the bar just drinking). Especially when SS is grounded! I was so annoyed and I wasn't even there. DH gets irritated when people bring their kids to adult things, yet because it's SS, it's fine and everyone is supposed to want to hang out with him.
I got home last night and DH told me he didn't let SS go anywhere all week except to the brewery on Sat, and he "Gave SS his PS5 back, but not his gaming computer cords". Which is laughable, because SS only uses his PS5, NOT his gaming computer. You are so strong, DH! He said SS apologized to him, but he told SS he also needs to apologize to me. I haven't seen SS yet, and skids leave today so I am hoping not to. DH said he had lots of stern talks with him about entitlement and lying. Apparently SS told DH he feels like since he got offered scholarships to colleges, DH should buy him a new laptop. *ok*
I want so bad to not let this bother me- but I just cannot let a 17yr old lie to my/our face and play us. I have managed to keep my mouth shut more on the punishment aspect of things, so that's my plan until this kid is out in Aug. But It feels like it's years away. Oh to have the rose-colored glasses of a Bio-parent.
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Sounds familiar
With all 5 of our kids, my 2 bios and 3 SKs, DH did the exact same thing. Verbal blowup over misconduct then grounding. They'd be in their rooms due to grounding then a few hours later, he would go in and have one of his "talks". He'd give them "one more chance" then they'd be gone again.
It was so aggravating.
I feel like my head is going
I feel like my head is going to explode because it bothers me so much. It makes NO sense. And to top it off, even now that we know SS has been lying about work, DH defended him AGAIN, saying they just haven't been giving him hours, (I don't think that's the case, and we have told SS to get a new job then, but he refuses), and DH said he is going to continue to pay for all of SS's car insurance, even though the agreement was DH, Crazy, and SS would each pay 1/3rd, then when Crazy didn't pay her part, SS was supposed to pay half...now he doesn't have to pay anything. It's insanity. Just rewarding bad behavior.
This is where I fear we're
This is where I fear we're headed with SS12 (nearly 13). He's been breaking rules, sneaking and lying since before I knew him. BM says it's not a problem at her house (though whether that's because he doesn't do it, she doesn't catch him, or she doesn't care is anybody's guess).
DH has gotten better about addressing it, finally putting some consequences in place. But he still slips up and goes soft at times. He's already afraid SS prefers BM's and he doesn't want to make it worse.
For instance, he'll take away all electronics. I'll point out that SS isn't handing over his school laptop (on which he can communicate with friends) at night. He responds "I don't want to deal with it." Great. So SS gets one over on you, you let things slide and nothing changes.
At this rate, teen years will be awesome!
Your DH sounds like my DH. "I
Your DH sounds like my DH. "I don't want to deal with it". DH told me that part of him is glad I look at the ins. app (very rarely), and part of him doesn't like it because he doesn't want to know. And "when we were young we didn't have people tracking us, so it's not really fair to SS". So, SS gets all the benefits of technology, like phones, computers, video games, etc, but shouldn't deal with any of the safety features of technology, like being able to check that he's driving safely and is telling the truth. Interesting. That sounds like a way to get out of parenting.
Way to go dad. He really
Way to go dad. He really showed SS huh? I can't. I just can't with this. My dad would've jerked a knot in my tail, then when I went home to my mom, she would've jerked another knot in my tail. Whatever happened to real consequences? Discipline? Your SS just learned a bad lesson. Daddy will cave. It may take a day or two, but he will cave. I was raised old school. Both parents put the fear of God in me and my siblings. There was no guilty Daddy or guilty Mommy. There was you'd better do as you're told and follow the rules or else, consequences, and both of them followed through. Parents just don't follow through anymore, what time they even attempt to implement consequences.
This
I couldn't agree more. I can't stand watching people parent now. It is really cringey to see DH not discipline, and I actually told him that recently in the kindest way possible. Did it matter? Nope.
He's going to be a grandpa
He's going to be a grandpa soon IMO. I hope you've laid out your boundaries regarding this punk.
Your husband is failing his
Your husband is failing his son. He's too afraid to lay out some harsh realities for him and it's going to hurt him in the long run. I think the ages of 15-18/19 are the hardest with kids and off-the-chart attitude. They are also a crucial time when parents need to be strong and check them. If he doesn't teach him the important lessons now, life will later and it won't be pretty.
He is significantly failing
He is significantly failing his marriage and his wife. Far more than he is failing his idiot failed family entitled liar of a spawn.
100%
This is exactly what I told him. There is only a short amount of time left to teach him some really hard lessons. Being trustworthy, being honest, and caring about other people's feelings are lessons he still needs to learn. Taking the easy way out of this by not really teaching a lesson is not going to help him later on. Of course DH waffled and didn't really agree because he always has to find a way to disagree and take the lax way with SS. You can spit pure logic at him and he will manage to take the opposite stance if that's the stance that will defend skids more. It's absolute insanity.
I get so triggered when I see
I get so triggered when I see weak parenting in front of my face. I cannot comprehend why parents are so scared of their own kids
These kids nowadays are on a whole nother level with the lying and entitlement
Mmy ex partner would catch his kids in lies, of course they'd explain it away, he'd be so gullible and dumb to believe the smoke blown up his a$$
Them he'd have the audacity to ask me what I though. Like look here mf I'm not about to help you figure out how to make your kids respect you more /stop lying to your face because when I do you're going to accuse me of "hurting" their feelings.
If holding some entitled kids accountable hurts then oh well.
When I suggest punishments,
When I suggest punishments, (in this case 2 visitation weeks with no gym/gf, plus taking his video game cords for 1 or 2 weeks), DH raises his eyebrows and makes a face like I just suggested we tie SS to a chair in the town square and stone him to death. I say, what is SO bad about SS not being able to play video games for 2 weeks? He gets to play at his moms in-between weeks. He said he doesn't think it needs to be "that harsh", and that not allowing him to see his gf for 2 weeks is "practically the whole month". I said, nope- it's 2 weeks, and he is at his moms in-between so he can see her then, plus he sees her at school every day. She can go to his basketball games and he can see her there. Like this is not a huge deal. When he tries to act like I'm over-the-top I will mention punishments that our friends have given their kids, or lessons people we know were taught by their parents (and now they brag about it) that are worse than anything I'm suggesting....DH gets mad and says he doesn't care about what other people do, and then find a way to discredit their parenting by pointing out flaws in their kids.
I told him I am not going to let a kid lie to me, so if he thinks I'm just going to sit back and let him handle it all if this happens again while he does nothing, he has another thing coming. I try to disengage a lot, but sometimes I just cannot keep my mouth shut.
DW and I took all electronics
DW and I took all exectronics from SS in 6th grade. He had screen zombie-itis. If there was a screen anywhere withing the range he could see the glow he would go into comatose zombie mode.
Our one agreed true parental screw up was.... getting him a laptop his Jr year of HS. He was at military boarding school. We purposely did not allow him a lap top. One of his teachers basically beged us to get him one because the computers in the lab and study hall were older and heavily used requiring a wait.
We caved and got him one during Parent's Weekend. That was the beggining of the end of his incredible Miltary School experience. He ended up staying up all night every night playing WoW after the Spermidiot hacked the school firewall. We ended up bringing him home at Winter break of his Sr. year after he flunked hte only class he needed to pass that semester to graduate in the Spring.
If I were your DH, that kid would be computing with an abacus, typing his papers on a IBM selectric type writer, and spell checking with a dictionary.
After we brought him home he was given zero choice on anything, marched himself to class the half mile the local HS was from our home, and he either graduated on time or he would be dropped off with his new neighbors at the homeless camp under the overpass. I even dropped him off there for a couple of hours to meet his future neighbors. Those amazing people welcomed him, fed him, lectured him, and scared the ever loving crap out of him.
After that, SS was nothing but assholes and elbows getting his school work done. In between shoveling snow (that Winter was a record snow fall winter) all night during blizzards, and getting THE look from his mom and sitting through her never ending lectures and parental butt kickings (figurativly of course).
He graduated on schedule and with honors. He did decice to forego University for the USAF though he has been plucking away at finishing his BSCS. He finished his ASCS and is sloooooowwwwwwly working on completing his BS.
One thing that SS has zero tolerance for his lying. His mom and I raised him with zero tolerance for lying. What made the biggest impression on him was that his SpermClan lied to him and manipulated constantly as he was growing up.
Good luck with coddling daddy DH. You are going to need it. Boo hoo. Grounded and then going with daddy to party at the brewery. Getting his PS5 back but "not the cords to his gaming computer".
Keep your DH's nose scrubbed on the shit stain in the mirror so he smells the odiferous emanations of parental and partner failure he is creating.
I know this is somewhat an
I know this is somewhat an unpopular opinion.. but the kid is 17.. and the expectation that his dad or you know his exact location at each and every moment of the day is not reasonable given the fact that he is hurtling towards the day that he will be able to 100% make those decisions without having to answer to anyone. At this point.. for better or worse.. his parents have raised him and he will either make great decisions.. or poor ones. and not much that they can do to change it.
He is less than honest because he doesn't like being told what to do I imagine.. and is trying to just get dad (or you) off his back. He thinks seeing his GF should be ok in his "almost adult" mind.. so he does it.. or whatever other side trips etc..
When I was 14.. my parents told me I would no longer be punished.. because the real life consequences of my actions and decisions would likely reap much bigger impacts on me.. like if I got pregnant.. or did drugs.. or got in a car with someone drunk.. stole..didn't do well in school etc.. all those have big consequences.. and knowing that I was going to have to face those. My parents said they were grown.. and had their degrees.. but that choices I made could put my own future at risk.. and there were things they couldn't fix for me.. even if they wanted to...
I mean.. yes.. I get that being honest is important.. but the kid is likely to get fired if he lies to his work and is caught etc.. those are the consequences daddy can't fix.. but I wouldn't be tracking my kid unless their safety was what I was concerned about.. like my YSD who had siezures as a teen..etc..
I agree, as long as OP can be
I agree, as long as OP can be sure she won't be living with the consequences of SS's bad choices (babysitting a grandchild, having SS live with them well into adulthood, supporting him into adulthood, or spending marital funds on lawyers and bail.)
Yes.. that's true.. but I
Yes.. that's true.. but I also would argue kids can "mess up".. even when they are tracked.. they can find time to have relations.. even when tracked.. and tracking doesn't prevent bad behavior.. just makes you aware maybe in the moment.. maybe in hindsight.. so it's like having a spouse that cheats.. there is likely no amount of tracking.. message reading etc.. that will prevent them from doing it.. if they are determined.
Ain't that the truth! When
Ain't that the truth! When you reach the point of micromanaging, it's time to take a step back and refocus on the real issues. For a stepkid like this, and a husband with poor boundaries, my fear would be that i would be personally dealing with SS's BS forever. He's 17. It's possible OP doesn't trust that there will ever be a light at the end of the tunnel. With a Disney Dad, that's a valid fear.
So, the thing is- we don't
So, the thing is- we don't micromanage where he goes! Which is what makes this so frustrating. SS is allowed to go wherever he wants, whenever he wants, as long as he is home by midnight on wknds. He is never not allowed to see the gf. He broke up with her and then told us he was only snapchatting with her, so the fact that he was telling us he was going to the gym but then going there was so uneccessary. If he said he was going there we would have asked if they were back together or just friends (out of curiosity), and then said Bye, have fun! Zero reason to lie. We haven't looked at the ins. app in months because we don't care where he's going, as long as he's telling us where he's going. It's actually not necessarily for tracking, it's to see if he's driving safely (speeding, on his phone). We only knew he lied because SD told us he was seeing her again, and when I asked him about it he told us he'd been lying.
I agree that there are bigger life consequences when you lie to work, etc, but if we're being honest, the consequences will affect me so I have a vested interest. SS loses his job? DH will pay for everything until he gets a new one, and that is less $ DH has- I get to hear him complain about $ or tell me no when I want to go do something. The only expectations we do have, and this is why SS is lying about work, is that he have a job and work reasonable hours. But he's trying to get out of it, and lying each week so he doesn't have to work. He needs a new car and is going to college, where he will need $- he will expect DH to give him all of that, not Crazy, and that will be a huge impact on DH (me). If SS is capable of working and just trying to get out of it and lying so he can play video games all day (which is what is happening), I don't think we should just let that go.
My biggest thing is, I really do not want to have a hand in raising assholes, and I get that teens will lie- but I also think teaching them why that is not ok and how to be trustworthy so they can take that into adulthood is a big lesson they need to learn when/if the opportunity presents itself, like it has here.
I get that the fallout can
I get that the fallout can impact you.. BUT.. I would point this out.
That is because you have a DH problem.
If your DH cared.. he would be the one monitoring.. and would have been handing out consequences the whole kid's life.. but he hasn't. He is fine with bailing him out.
I mean.. he may be mildly aggravated.. but the only real outcome of you pushing this in front of your SO is that he has to deal with it.. which he doesn't like.. and doesn't do well.. and the kid doesn't like and doesn't really adhere to anyway... so nothing changes.. and nothing will change.. no matter how many times you find out " aha... you were not where you said".. the kid really doesn't suffer for it.. and probably thinks it's "dumb" that you are checking on him since he is "grown".
All you really can do.. is make sure YOUR funds aren't subsidizing the kid.. you probably don't have much control with what your SO does I'm guessing.
It;s like when I was having to monitor my YSD's school progress when she was taking classes online.. she did what she did.. procrastinated.. and I had precious little "stick" and her dad was out of area.. no way to reach him.. and honestly.. what could we really do anyway to an almost 18 yo.. in the end.. if she didn't finish the classes she didn't graduate.. it was her issue to resolve.
Totally a DH problem
Oh 99.999% of this is on DH. When he thinks I'm anti-skids, I'm like no DH, I'm mad at your lack of parenting. I struggle with what you mentioned above all the time. I try to keep quiet and let DH parent as he wants to (or not, as the case may be), while I silently scream inside.... this one seemed big to me, since it was so blatant and he lied right to my face too (that one I can't let slide and let DH handle, I at least had to say something). My struggle is- I know DH doesn't want to do much. I know DH wants to yell in this case, not punish, and will pay for whatever for SS in the end, and you are right that I do not have control over that. It really sucks when DH blows all his $ rather than hold SS to his commitments, but he isn't really going to listen to me anyway, so all that's going to happen is an argument.
I need to make peace with all of this, which I'm not sure is possible. I do feel like once SS is out and it's not so "in my face" it will be easier...at least that's what I'm telling myself.
Even when the Skids are out
Even when the Skids are out he will not stop blowing all of his money on them. Which means, he is stealing from you now and will continue stealing from you because he is failing to live up to your equity life partnership.
Don't argue. Tell, hold him accountable. Lather, rinse, repeat. If he wants to argue inform him that there is no arguement or debate. It is what YOU stipulate it is. A mate and a relationship where discussion, collaboration, and agreement does not require quite the firm structure and controls. A mate and relationship that is a true equity partnership with all that entails... does not require the firm level of control.
Take care of you. Live well. Please make that happen for yourself since it does not appear that it is likely that the relationship will make that happen for you. If you can make that happen for yourself within the relationship, great. If not.
IMHO
"My biggest thing is, I
"My biggest thing is, I really do not want to have a hand in raising assholes"
Might be too late for this kid at 17. Blatant lying and disrespect should have been "taught" out of him by now. If he's still doing it, his parents have failed. Hopefully he will mature and grow out of it (some do), and hopefully he will launch. If he does move on and move out, all you can do is minimize the impact on yourself.
I know how frustrating the
I know how frustrating the lying can be especially when skids are taught to be sneaky by their parents. SS sees it as he’s 17 and almost an adult and he should be able to come and go as he pleases. What he doesn’t understand is that his constant lying means you don’t trust him to be responsible coming and going as he pleases. I had the same issue with Spawn, she would lie for the sake of lying and yet expected us to trust her to do the right thing. Like how can I trust you when you can’t even be honest about little things, let alone big things? You might need to just disengage and allow DH to handle it from here on out, and you probably wont like the way he handles it, but it might give you some peace from being the only person who cares enough to check in on the kid.
Spot on
This is exactly it, and SS already can come and go as he pleases, he just can't (and doesn't need to) lie about it, so now he just shot himself in the foot for no reason because now we don't trust him about anything! I do know that I am stepping out of this situation- as frustrated as I am by it, I am at my limit and it's only causing me stress that I am unable to do anything about. DH is making SS apologize to me, which I appreciate, but I expect all to be back to normal after that and doubt DH will even mention this to SS again unless SS busts himself for lying again. I really want to just sit back and not hear about SS's crap, especially if I have no say.
Get ready for the..... "But I
Get ready for the..... "But I am not lying about this!!!"
SS had to learn that lesson and it drive him nuckin futz. I do not even remember what he lied about. But his mom and I adopted the once a liar always a liar and he could not be trusted stance. So, we started making him physically show us he had completed something instead of just accepting what he was telling us. We gave the "Nope, we don't believe you face....."
On just about everything.
Eventually he got the message. As an adult, he is highly sensitive to lies and bullshit from coworkers, people he is dating, etc....
We may have ruined his love life, but at least he got the message that lying is never acceptable.
I was a lucky one. The
I was a lucky one. The technology when I was raising my two was just a computer aand AOL. I can't imagine it now when online is 24/7 and technology can be in their pocket or on their wrists. I got fed up with lies that even my blind mother could have seen through. So soon fter no matter what the child said, I double checked it and made him aware that I was double checking it. Kid said "I'm going to take a shower" ... I checked to see if the shower was wet. Kid said pretty much anything, I assumed they were lying and double or triple checked it and made sure they knew I did. They hated it. That was my point.