DH had a CS hearing yesterday. What a scam!
So DH has been paying Crazy $650/month for Demon and SS18, 50/50 custody. When this was decided 2 years ago, Crazy allegedly made $36K/year, although they accepted that amount without her submitting her taxes or anything. SS graduated high school in June, which is when DH is done with CS in our state. He filed to take him off in July. The CS agency said nope- even with taking SS off, CS wouldn't be reduced by "$50 or 10%", so they wouldn't reduce the payment of $650/month. DH filed to have a judge review.
Court was yesterday. The judge asked the CS agency what their recommendation was for DH to pay- they said "$525/month". DH said, wait a minute- you said it wasn't going to be reduced by more than $50 or 10%, so you never reduced it! They hemmed and hawed and threw out some excuse about staffing changes. The judge said "Well you ended up here anyway". DH said yes, but I have been paying too much since July. They agreed to credit him back what he has overpayed since July. They asked Crazy what she thought she was owed and of course she said she thought it should be kept at $650/month. Nice try. So it was reduced, but only by $125/month. We now know via SS that Crazy makes about $65K-$70K/year, but DH found out yesterday that they used $36K/year for this filing! How is that even possible? He had to submit tax records and a complete history with pay stubs. He was planning on asking for the records, but it looks like only a lawyer can subpoena them in our state. Either way he should still be paying less than $525/month because she makes almost double what they used.
THEN- DH pays for SS's health insurance- Crazy pays nothing. SS is 18 so this should be neither here nor there. But DH disclosed that he pays for it. They are charging him $65/MONTH, Penalizing him for paying for SS's ins! And Crazy is getting the $! He technically should be paying her $460/month, but she is getting $65/mo for SS's ins, so $525. In what world does this make sense? He is 18 and it has nothing to do with her! DH asked all of these questions and no one had an answer. It is the most messed up, infuriating system ever.
In other news, last night DH's phone was dinging at 12:30am and I was trying to sleep so I looked at it to see if it was on DND and it was a text from SS- (it was 1:30am his time) saying "How far are condoms supposed to go down on your weiner? Because the ones you bought me don't go all the way down". GAHHH. I cannot unsee this. What 18yr old calls it a weiner??? He said that 2yrs ago and DH told him to never say that again, it's a penis. And FFS, you are 18 and in college- Google! Youtube! Don't text daddy at 12:30am! He also has a gf that lives in our state, so not sure who these are for. She is going down to visit him with her mom next wknd, but idk if they have sex. All around, yuck.
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You should have told him it
You should have told him it goes all the way down and his balls have to go in too to hold it in place...
(No subject)
BAHAHAHA!!
I am dying Winterglow!
Such a missed opportunity!
And then deleted my response from DH's phone *lol*
That was exactly what I had
That was exactly what I had envisioned!
Never forget that Judges seem
Never forget that family court Judges seem to come from the bottom 10%ers of the legal profession and many in CPS, Child Support Enforcement, etc.. .are the barely employable. Basic math is beyond their intellectual capabilities.
We had exactly the same experience that you did though for us it was from the non resident CP position. DW had left SpermLand just after HS graduation and after SS turned 1yo. A few months before had been the paternity hearing where the SpermIdiot was confirmed for paternity, CS was set at a whopping $110/mo and full physical and legal custody for my DW was confirmed by the court. A year later a few days after our wedding and a few days before SS's 2nd Bday we finally got to court to defend the SpermClans attempt to take custody. The courts subpoenaed tons of information. Tax returns, income information for DW, me, etc... and all of the same things for the SpermIdiot. We came with file boxes full of information, they came with two weeks worth of pay stubs. Our attorney hammered repeatedly on them and the Judge for failing to fulfill the court demand's for information. The bottom 10%er of the legal profession robed dumb-ass ignored all of that. We won but it was clear that the robed idiot was pissed off that he could not deliver on his clear bias in favor of the resident side of the court action. The most notable point where his irritation on not being able to hand him it all on a silver platter was when they motioned for my income to be considered in calculating CS. In SpermLand SParent income cannot be considered in CS calculation. However, they have an option for a robed dipshit to apply an income reduction credit to reduce the maximum CS an NCP is subjected to. The bitter beer face that the robed moron had when he spouted "Step Parent income cannot be considered in calculating CS. However, due to Step Dad's significant income I am applying the maximum income reduction credit allowable as bio dad should not be punished by having to provide an artificial standard of living for this child." No bit deal. The maximum income reduction of $1000/mo only reduces max possible CS by $50/mo. So nothing that is materially significant either for them or for us. Though we won resoundingly in that action/hearing, that that POS benefited a micro-cent from my income chapped my ass beyond measure.
The Judge ordered CS to go from $110/mo to $133/mo, full physical and legal was upheld for my DW, and visitation was set at 7wks/yr (5wks summer, 1wk winter, 1wk spring). SpermGrandPa's only comment that whole hearing was "Jesus Christ!" when CS was raised from $110/mo to $133/mo. We did not know it at that time but SpermGrandMa had being paying the SpermIdiot's CS which pissed her DH/SPermGrandPa off to no end. As it came out over the years, they paid his CS for SS the whole 16yrs of the CO. They also paid the CS to the the other two baby mamas as well.
After 8hrs in court that day the first Judge preceded his order with "I hope you all feel better. Now I am going to do what I always do." We wasted a day, shit tons of $$$ all for a dumb-ass in an idiot Harry Potter robe slinging a Fisher-Price wooden toddlers hammer to not listen to or hear a thing we said, spent countless hours compiling, etc.... Unfortunately idiots in robes have no accountability to actually do their job or have a brain. Suing an idiot Judge can't happen as far as I understand.
9 years later after my DW had enough of the toxic manipulations and I had been RIFd in an industry downturn so my income was $zero DW filed for an amendment of CS. She filed for CS review with the DA. It Very similar to the defense of their custody attempt. We took shit tons of info, they brought two pay stubs. The lead up was interesting. The SpermIdiot repeatedly refused service to provide the stipulated information demanded by the DA who administrates CS reviews in SpermLand. We provided boxes of info. The SpermIdiot even physically ran from the Constable during an attempt by the Constable to serve him. In response the DA contacted my DW to provide as much information as she could on the SpermIdiot's income, employer, residence, assets, etc....
She went CPA on his ass and went above and beyond providing everything the DA asked that she could determine, add a bunch of other stuff including the income assessment for licensed plumbers in the county the SpermIdiot worked in recommending the mid pay rate as a fair income for CS calculation. Because the SpermIdiot failed to respond the DA increased CS from $133/mo to $785/mo and ordered direct payroll withholding of CS from the SpermIdiot's pay checks. When he got his first $0.00 pay check due to the first direct withholding of CS he came screaming into to court to schedule a CS review hearing.
As was the case 9 years before, when we had the CS review via a telephone hearing with an admin law Judge they came with nothing but two paystubs. None of the subpoenaed information other than that. No living expenses, no utility costs, car payments, etc... This time, DW had already provided a shit ton of info including the he lived in a rental property owned by SpermGrandHag and SpermGrandPa, drove their hand me down cars, that they paid his CS on SS proven by a statement by the CSE office that he was not the one dropping off the CS payments for forwarding to DW. As the hearing unfolded we picked them apart. SpermIdiot could not say how much his rent was and under pressure by DW and the Judge he admitted he paid no rent. He admitted that SpermGrandHag paid his CS for SS and for his other three. That SpermGrandHag gave him cars, raised his three younger kids, etc, etc, etc... Eventually SpermGrandHag blew her stack with "What difference does it make who pays the CS, or the rent...". They repeated their attempt to get my income considered for CS calculation. When they made that motion we responded by reminding them and the new Judge that SpermLand excludes SParent income from CS calculation and counter motioned that due to the significant income to SpermIdiot provided by his mommy and daddy that SpermGrandMa's and SpermGrandPa's income be added to SpermIdiot's for CS calculation purposes. SpermGrandHag lost her F'n mind. The only sound SpermGrandPa made that whole hearing was at that point. "Jesus Christ!". Apparently his vocabulary had not improved in the 9yrs between court actions. It got even more explosive when the Judge announced that she would take our motion to include the SpermGP's income in CS calculation under consideration.
I particularly enjoyed that moment.
I had been told at the beginning of the hearing that as the StepDad that I was not a party to the case. Which the robed idiot in the first hearing 9+ years before also said. The difference in the second hearing was that it was a telephone hearing so my participation was not visible. We had it on speaker phone so I could hear it all. I kept my headset muted so I could hear it all while I was pulling information out of the files highlighting response information for DW, adding arrow stickers for reference points, etc...
The telephone hearing occurred while SS was in SpermLand for summer visitation when he was about 10yo. When the Hag lost her mind over our presentation of proof that SpermIdiot had no living expenses, that they paid all of his CS costs, visitation travel costs for SS, you could hear SS and his three younger half sibs in the the room. I pointed out to DW that the Hag and SpermGrandPa were not parties to the case if I was not and that they should not have the kids in the room hearing all of the crap. DW's eyes bugged out when she recognized my point. She leveraged her position of commonality with the judge as a highly educated professional women and pointed out that the GPs were not a party to the case and could not participate as had already been ordered in reference to me. And... that they had the kids present in the room for the hearing. Her honor lost her ever loving shit on them over that part.
To end the long CS review hearing story, the Judge considered but declined to apply SpermGP income for CS calculation. She lowered the increased CS from $785/mo to $385/mo but held the $785/mo for 2yrs due to the SpermIdiots repeated refusal to respond to subpoena and for running from the Constable who was attempting to serve him. The Judge also upheld that SpermIdiot was on the hook for paying for after school care for SS until he was 12yo and for providing health insurance for SS. Something he had been ordered to do but never had. Because he did not provide health insurance as ordered his share of health insurance for SS was added to his CS 9yrs earlier. The same was ordered by the second Judge. Interestingly he attempted to get CS lowered several months later when he came in for a CS review because he had finally gotten all of his kids on insurance. The judge ruled that due to the lack of quality of his insurance that he had to both keep SS on his insurance and continue to pay his share of us providing SS with insurance. As a final jab in his ass she ordered that because he attempted to reduce CS less than 2yrs after the most recent order without a significant change of circumstance that he could not seek a CS reduction from her insurance review date.
Part of the Judge's order was that either party had to notify the CSE on SS's 12th B-day so after school care could be removed from the CS direct payroll withholding. For damned sure DW did not make that call. Not our problem. They never did either. Again, not our problem. So they paid an extra $300/yr for 6 years. Not surprising that they did not make the call. It was abundantly clear the entire 16+ years we lived under the CO that they never even read the order.
Judges for some reason rarely exhibit brain activity in family law cases. Far too often they award CP status to people who have no business being a CP, they far too often victimize the parent that has the ability to support and likely parent the child far more successfully . Our first Judge was useless and a total moron. Our second Judge was far better able to assess all elements of the situation and apply sound Judgment.
I am sorry that your experience has been polluted by what appears to be an idiot judge and system.
Crapshoot
Half of CS seems to be a crapshoot and what they decide to do that day. We can't figure out what this BS ins. thing is about. But it also isn't worth DH getting a lawyer, which would cost $5K+, just to save maybe a few thousand over the next few years. He may call his old retired lawyer to see if he can tell him about what a crock this was (his old lawyer hates Crazy with a passion) and maybe find out if this thing with SS's ins. is even legit.
DH had the same judge during the last CS hearing and he was reasonable and fair- this time he was lazy and did not give 2 shits. Not his $, not his problem apparently.
My/our position has been that any cost is worth holding the ...
Toxic accountable for being toxic, and to develop a record of their toxicity so that the kids can be given those facts in order to protect themselves.
One major point of manipulation that my SS was repeatedly put through by the SpermClan was that CS was taking food out of the mouths of his three younger half sibs, that CS bought the nice things that SS had and his sibs didn't, that CS paid for several new homes for us to live in, several new cars, nice vacations, good schools, etc.... that SS's three younger sibs by two other baby mamas.
So, we rolled out a review of the CO showing him that initially CS was $110/mo for a year, then $133. Which is where it was during this initial bullshit by the SpermClan. His CPA mom then put together a simple kid-centric colorful spreadsheet and charts showing how much our family costs (housing, cars, clothes, food). A pie chart showing how much $133/mo covered of our several $thousand monthly family living costs. Basically a giant single colored ball with a tiny light colored sliver indicating how much the SpermClan SS covered.
We never needed the money. However, we never wanted SS to have to come to the realization that the SpermClan did not give a shit enough about him to not support him. We always made sure that he understood that CS was paid by them to help care for him. When they manipulated and tried to use SS to guilt DW into dropping child support, he learned what a pittance their contribution clearly was.
When they got nasty, it cost them. When they attempted to fold SS into their nastiness, he was presented with the facts in an age appropriate manner.
So, consider doing just that. Keep your foot up the sleazy oppositions asses, season the kids with the facts, to counter toxic manipulation from the shallow and polluted end of their gene pool, and stand on the CO.
I would if I were you. We did just this.
Though keep in mind that an intelligent opponent on the other side can play the PAS card so make sure you are fully playing the documented facts when you are protecting the SKids to counter toxic crap from the toxic opposition.
All the SpermClan ever had was lies and toxic manipulation. They hated the facts. They clearly never even read the CO and had zero grasp on the truth mch less the facts. The kid ultimately recognized their lack of quality, their manipulation. He knew the facts and he started using the facts to call them for their crap in real time. I truly wish he had not had to do that. Though they were the ones who forced our hand in providing SS with the facts with their cyclical emergence out from under their slime covered rock at the bottom of their shallow and polluted gene pool to PAS the kid with their lies and manipulations.
What state do you live in
How long does CS go ? Does SS gas to be inrolled in college to get support. ?
'That's how steplife goes These kids just collect support until they are 25 if going to college. 2
CS only goes until they
CS only goes until they graduate high school or turn 18 (if they are 18 before they graduate, you still have to pay until they graduate high school). Then they are done. No CS support through college in our state thankfully. Which is why it makes zero sense that DH is being penalized for paying SS's ins- SS is 18 and off CS. He's a nonfactor and an adult in our states eyes. Why would Crazy get money for that??
At least you are in a State
At least you are in a State with a reasonable grasp on intelligence in the CO rules and regulations arena.
SpermLand where our CO was ordered was a 18 or HS graduation whichever was the later State. Though CS could be continued to age 21 if the Kidult was a full time student in good standing at their university, college, or trade school. That only happened if the kid notified the DAs office at which point CS ceased going to the CP and went directly to the kid.
A point that the SpermClan used to guilt my Skid to not keep them on the hook. Part of why he refused to go to school after HS and enlisted in the USAF. Once he could not nail them for the last CS amount of $385/mo for 3 more years they started guilting him to pay them back for all of the CS they paid under the CO for 16+ years. He refused because he knew that for 9yrs CS was a pittance and he had lived their toxic manipulation since he was 2yo. After he gave them the big fat NO on paying back CS, they started trying to guilt him into helping support his three younger also out of wedock Spermidiot spawned half sibs. He gave them the same answer he gave then when they tried to slant it as repaying the CS. He wrote them off increasingly over the next 4 or so years and has had little to do with them and nearly zero contact with them in 6ish or so years. It breaks our hearts that they are who they are and that he has that baggage in his life even if it is growing more distant into his past.
Over the past 15, 16 years most states have welcomed BM's request to continue CS beyond emancipation age IF the child is attending college or Tech school.
It may be worth asking a lawyer in case you need to be prepared.
And they also encourage
Kidults to stay on their parent's health insurance for as long as possible. In NYS it is up to age 29 and CS goes to 21 no matter the circumstances.
(No subject)
I forgot to add
"Children" can VOTE as an adult in New York state at age 18 19 and 20
They can VOTE at 18 in the
They can VOTE at 18 in the whole country. At 18 I suppose they can "vote" to leave of their own accord. Of course in the idiot States where the NCP has to continue to pay government extorted CS for 3 years after the kid reaches majority, what the kid chooses may not free the NCP from being raped by the state financially.
What amazes me about those idiot governed States is that in intact families parents can cut their kids off at 18 and are do not have to keep dumping money into them until they are 21.
Amazing idiocy on a massive scale IMHO.
I must be in the WRONG state
I must be in the WRONG state
Really want to nail deadbeat breader to the wall as long as possible but looks like I'd have to reside in a state that favors the kids over the deadbeat
I dont understand why are
I dont understand why are they charging your husband $65/month for having SS18 on your benefits?
My separation agreement states that my ex and I share any out of pocket premiums for benefits.
Did the judge get the order backwards... It feels like bio mom should be paying toward the benefit not the person having the benefit paying an additional amount. Also why is he covered after 18..because he's in school still?
DH called the CS office and
DH called the CS office and asked the question again- they doubled down that Yep, DH OWES Crazy $65/month for paying for SS's Health insurance. DH said, you realize this is insane right? And that not all of the CS rules HAVE to be followed? That at some point, people can say, hey this makes zero sense and is not fair at all, so I'm not going to enforce it? He said, I realize this isn't going to change my case, but for anyone elses...just something to think about! I told him we should take SS off of his insurance for a few months and then re-file.
Please explain so I understand.
Please explain so I understand. DH pays BM to provide insurance for the SKid then DH provides insurance? Is that right?
Time to slap BM with a contempt motion for failing to provide the insurance she is supposed to provide and that DH pays her to provide. Of course he can keep covering the SKid on his insurance to make sure that coverage is in place but if he is paying BM to provide the insurance then he needs to be scrubbing her nose in the stench she creates by not providing what she is COd and paid to provide.
Our CO ordered the SpermIdiot to provide health insurance for SS. For 11yrs he didn't so his SS was higher to cover half of the cost for me to cover SS on mine. When DW finally initiated a CS review after 9 years of CS remaining at $133/mo CS was raised to $785/mo for various reasons. When direct withholding of that new amount resulted in the SpermIdiot getting his first $0.00 pay check he came screaming into court to contest. After that hearing he did finally get all of his kids insurance coverage including SS. He then ran back to court to try to get his CS reduced because he was now providing insurance and having to pay an elevated CS to compensate for me covering SS on mine. The Judge ruled that the insurance Spermidiot provided was substandard, ordered that he continue to provide SS with insurance and pay the elevated CS to ensure that SS remained covered under my top tier benefits. That was not a happy day for the SpermIdiot.
DH pays BM to provide
This is the only scenario that makes sense to me.
I think Rags handling is wise. It does sound like she is not providing what she should be.