Another weekend of interference and alienation
I hate the CO phone calls, I hate them so much, they are waaaaayyyy too frequent and do nothing but allow BM to interfere with the kids time here and alienate them further.
We were having a perfectly nice day up until BM rings. Kids go into one of their rooms to talk, come back out and neither of them will speak to us or be in the same room with us for the rest of the day/night. DH asked what was going on, he was told to go away, leave us alone! WTF?! We had planned to watch a movie, "we don't want to, you can't force us!" Ugh.
They snuck back and forth between their rooms all night whispering to each other and trying to raid the kitchen (DH shut that down, they had dinner, they had an after dinner snack, they don't need to eat nonstop until bedtime).
BM constantly accuses us of recording these phone calls with the kids. We never have, honestly, DH gets anxiety just hearing her whine hello to the kids when they answer, but I wish we knew what the hell was being said to cause this. You can't address a topic if you don't know what the topic is. This is becoming a regular occurrence every time she calls. I just want this bitch out of my house, god forbid the kids actually have a nice weekend with their dad!
I think our only option would be to go to mediation to ask her to either reduce the phone calls or stop the behavior, but even so, with final court orders in place she'll just say no to any changes. Any suggestions? There was no talking to the kids afterward, whatever she said, we were the enemy.
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When my SKs 31 and 29 were
When my SKs 31 and 29 were about 12 and 14, DH and I went through this. Both DH and I were the target. DH felt that he couldn't get BM to stop. Parents who PAS their kids are usually narcissistic or borderline. BM is relentless and if DH talked to her she would have just used that to tell the kids that DH is a big meanie and accused her of doing something she didn't do or that the big meanie wants to forbid calls to her on Dad's nights.
Instead, DH asked the SKs, 'OK what the hell is going on?! You come here and you're so full of hate. What is going on? Either tell me what the problem is or knock it off." The SKs were shocked. They weren't used to being confronted on anything. DH asked what was going on without naming BM. He knew that if he named her at all, the kids would just defend her and BM would have fodder for saying "see?!!! Dad's a meanie and just hates me. He doesn't want us to be together." The SKs were shocked but it got them thinking. SS stopped being an ass, but SD got worse towards both DH and I for a while. So, DH just naming their behaviour got SS' attention.
If anything is tried on the SKs though, it has to come from your DH.
I agree that calling it out
I agree that calling it out by the birth parent is called for. A 180 degree turnaround in mood is defined coming from the phone call. It's a sin for kids go back to BM with a smile on their faces.! Didn't you know that?? Eyeroll. Is it CO that the phone calls happen in the bedroom? If not then they happen somewhere else. I'm sure BM stands right next to them if they talk to dad on the phone ( if that happens at all). My DH had the same problem and that eventually led to him taking a phone away from OSD , 16 at the time, and she attacked him and broke his shoulder. BM rewarded her and the estrangement was complete. Beware of this spiraling out of control if you don't find a way to handle it.
We had something similar. One
We had something similar. One SS will go hide in his room and text BM. He would tell BM all the things he hates about our home and then BM would send DH a bunch of nasty texts about how SS doesn't feel comfortable being around DH and he traumatized coming to our home. At first, DH told skids they couldn't bring their cell phones to our home and allowed BM to speak to the kids once a day. He proposed this solution at the mediation and BM insisted that she be able to contact her children 24/7. She even had her lawyer send a letter saying that "a stepmother's jealousy should not prevent a mother from contacting her children!" Not sure what I'm supposed to be jealous of...a home that is not being meddled in by a bitter ex wife perhaps? So, DH lost outright and alienated SS still texts his mother throughout his weekends. I agree with the comments above. An alienating mother is likely a narc or borderline, so you can't win. We're just waiting it out until skids no longer come over or turn 18...whichever happens first.
Phone calls are CO’d through the parent’s phones
So phone calls are CO'd to be made through the parents phones at specified times (or times as agreed in writing) and they have to be private. This ensures that the parents have to facilitate those calls. Unfortunately, BM does not facilitate the frequency of the CO'd phone calls, so DH only talks to skids maybe once a week when they are not here despite calling when he's supposed to, she just doesn't answer or sends some BS that the kids are busy or don't want to talk to him and she can't force them! We've thought about taking it up as a breach with the courts, but we have to weigh potential outcomes vs cost. It would be minimum of 2 court days plus documentation, plus lawyer prep time, we're looking at $7k-$10k cause she won't answer a damn phone and the only outcome may be she is told to answer the phone.
Skids are not allowed to bring phones, or any other device, to our house from BM's until high school. That is our house rule, not CO'd. Honestly, they have no need for phones before then, their friends don't have phones, it is just another way for BM to interfere 24/7. That was part of the problem: SD brought a phone this weekend and was sneaking off to her room to use it. When DH caught her and made her turn it off and put it in the living room she threw a fit. Going forward he's asking when they get here if she has it and it goes in a box and she gets it back when she leaves. SS doesn't have a phone, he wouldn't be able to text anyway.
DH did try to address it, they just ignored him. And if he tells them to knock it off or raises his voice at all they report it back to BM as he was "raging"! And then we get a welfare check from our wonderful, friendly local police (please read the eye roll and sarcasm in that statement). Our local police treat all men as abusers and criminals, there's a huge DV campaign that's been going so, it sucks.
Maybe next time, he tries to address to address it he records himself talking to them? At least if the police show up we can play it back for them to show the crazy we are dealing with?
As for the kids, SS had forgotten about by the next morning, back to fine (I dare say even happy), SD continued though up until they left.
Sounds like it's time to drop
Sounds like it's time to drop the rope. Doesn't sound like anyone is happy with visitation. Best to protect your mental health and your toddler's physical safety and have your husband grieve his lost kids.
I would suggest counseling
I would suggest counseling for SKs when they are with you. I would tell SKs since they seem to have an issue with being at your house and will not discuss it with you, then they can tell a counselor.
No Court would have an issue with children going to counseling.
If BM doesn't facilitate DH's
If BM doesn't facilitate DH's calls, why is he facilitating hers? Give her the same amount she gives him. Keep a log of all the calls DH successfully makes and her excuses, and keep a log of how many she is allowed. Don't lie to her about the kids not being available, just don't answer. If she takes it back to court, her failure to follow the CO will be addressed.
I wish he could not answer
But playing her games back at her doesn't help anything legally or with the kids. They would say he's keeping them from talking to their mom. Even though she does this on her end and keeps them from talking to their dad, the kids don't see it that way, she's perfect! Every excuse she gives them is the truth, 100%.
Sounds like the skids are
Sounds like the skids are being lippy and disrespectful. DH needs to be the alpha dog in the household, he really has nothing to lose by doing so.
If I told my parents to leave me alone or stop bothering me, I'd have my face slapped off.
I don't suggest he slap them but he should reprimand them. Tell them to cut the crap.
If they say something ridiculous, he should tell them so, with a hint of ridicule in his voice. "You think watching a movie with your family sounds like torture? AYFKM?? Wow, that's ridiculous!"
Since she refuses calls, I'd
Since she refuses calls, I'd suggest you do the same. What is she going to do, take you to court? That means she has to pay. And you can respond with documented efforts of her not answering. AND you can bring up the alienation tactics she takes while they are with you with the phone calls. NCP that dont' have enough time should not have to 'share' that time with the other parent at all IMO. Stop the calls.
Thanks all
I think DH needs to step it up and confront them more on their behavior (and record himself while doing so in case there are any false accusations later).
DH has looked into therapy, unfortunately the primary provider in our area for child therapy services is overwhelmed right now, you can't even get on a waiting list. The others that work with children don't deal with issues related to divorce/blended families. There were programs for kids prior to Covid, we had them enrolled in one that was supposed to start last April, then they all got canceled. So DH isn't sure what to do in terms of therapy. I think everyone on here knows if you don't get a therapist who understands high conflict, alienation tactics, divided households, etc. it can lead to even more problems and division.
What really sucks about all of this is the roller coaster had gone back up, we were having a pretty nice weekend (same the weekend before), no back talk, no eye rolls, even SS was happy, no outbursts. And to have that ruined in a matter of minutes by someone/something outside of this house is just ridiculous to me. Why you would do this to your kids is beyond me and disgusting behavior on BMs part.
DH is debating mediation/court. They have to go to mediation first per the CO's. He doesn't need a lawyer for mediation, but knowing she'll just sit with her arms folded and say no to everything means he has to decide if court is worth it.
Trying to hold BM accountable
Trying to hold BM accountable is a losing battle. Save your money and put the rope down. Concentrate on confronting the skids on their behavioral changes at your house.
I still think he should
I still think he should decline the calls and not even tell the kids she called. They dont' have their own phones so no biggy. If he only has EOW the judge made a huge mistake ordering calls. That is very limited time to bond to have mom interferring. I would cut out the toxic source.
Play dumb, you dind't hear the phone, you all were busy, etc. He needs to not allow her to infect his time w/her nonsense.
Dup.
Dup.