Meeting with BM.. TBA
Really nervous about this. We haven't set a time/day yet... Just a quick recap. BM wanted to meet with me when she first moved here back in august. There was WAY to much drama and boundaries and things that needed to be worked out between BM and SO, so i was really against meeting with her.
But, at this point it seems like they've worked out a lot of the divorce/failed marriage stuff (at least as much as is probably gonna happen) and now we're just going day to day. The biggest area of conflict now is that she feels threatened by me, and refuses to let him have his daughter around me. So, i went ahead and sent a very nice email saying that if she wanted to talk that we could do that to try and make this situation better.
After two months, she finally responded saying that she feels she's ready to talk to me. Based on some of her conversations with my SO, it sounds like she is finally starting to realize she needs to move on with her life. Alienating me is not really healthy for their child either, because i am a big part of "dad's" life. Alienating me, alienates "dad" as well.
So, now i need to think about what areas would be good to talk about, how to talk about stuff, and what areas i should try to keep off limits. She says she would prefer to talk face to face.. this is more her conversation stye, while i'm more of an email type. So, this is going to be hard. I tend to have a hard time getting my points across when i am face to face... and i don't want this to be a negative thing where we just get each other all riled up.
Anyone have any chats with the BM and have them go well? Or, any BM's out there who want to give any tips?
my BM profile:
Things that concern me, if i am to talk with this woman:
She's a counselor (so she has a communication and pyschology background)
Lots of insecurities (walking on eggshells to make sure you don't hit a sensitive spot)
Feels totally threatened by me (from a failed marriage perspective, and afraid her child will like me better also)
She's overprotective and controlling of both the child and her ex
very emotional, can't seem to control her emotions or what she says/does (always appologizing later for yelling, or comments made and so forth to SO)
Currently using her child as an emotional crutch, as well as a pawn over SO
Seems to project OFTEN. (example, she is acting very very childish, so she makes a statement that I am being childish)
Good points, and why this MIGHT work:
Her #1 goal in life seems to be, to be a good mom (she is not doing a bad job overall despite her issues)
Her counselor background, double edged sword. Means she might actually be able to communicate and be willing to listen, or atleast see how this is healthier for her child
She and my SO have an ok parenting plan, and she doesn't seem quite as malicious as some other BM's i've read about. (again, i think she is trying to do what is best for her child when her overwhelming emotions are not making the decisions)
Basically, she emailed me back after 2 months and said that she couldn't make any promises, but that she was committed to trying to open communication and make the situation better.
Sounds great!.... except last time she tried to talk to me she verbally attacked me so it's no wonder i'm so nervous and hesitant. Plus, i honesty feel like this should not be necessary. I should not have to talk to her. If this was like hundreds of other situations, i wouldn't have to talk to her. But, i'm playing this by ear and since she seems like the type who needs to talk and have reassurances and so forth, maybe i can assure her that i am not trying to take her spot as "mom".
Topics i might bring up:
1) I was thinking of just pointing out that I'm with her ex and we are stable (3years almost now), and his daughter is a big part of his life, so i feel it is important for me to have a chance to build a friendship with the daughter.
2) That having multiple adults who care about a child, has never been bad for the health of a child, but that i see myself as a friend/aunt type role. I am definately willing to stick to the rules BM/SO have for the child.
3) Alientating me, also alientates him "dad" from his child's life. (which is unhealthy)
4)?
5)?
I have lots of experience being an "aunt" to kids. 28 neices/nephews... so it's not like a person would have to worry that i can't watch over a kid once in awhile.
Not sure what else to talk about. I really feel like she is the one in the wrong right now and i have been bending over backwards to be patient/understanding and so forth. I don't even want to talk to her.. but it seemed like it was necessary for HER. So, this is really hard to think of what to talk about. I'd really like to say "Grow up! and stop throwing temper tantrums. Your child is not a favorite toy you don't want to share! You and your ex are OVER, deal with it! Welcome to reality! you're DIVORCED!" But,... that certainly wouldn't help the situation much if i were to say what i was REALLY thinking. 
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Hmm.. i thought when talking
Hmm.. i thought when talking you were SUPPOSED to do the whole. I feel this when you do X.
Can you suggest a better way to phrase those topics? (this is exactly why i need to think this stuff through before we talk!)
Are you looking to have this
Are you looking to have this meeting just between you & BM? I really think it'd be a good idea to have your SO there. That way, it isn't her saying he said...& it isn't you saying he said... It keeps her from going back to him & saying you said...& keeps you from going back to him & saying she said...
Having all 3 of you there together helps keep everyone on the same page & everyone knows what's being discussed & what's being agreed upon. It's easier to keep things from getting twisted or manipulated.
That's a really good
That's a really good point.And would probably be ideal, but not very possible. To have this talk the 3 of us we would have to either all take work off or go somewhere at 9pm at night. (most likely HER house while the daughter is asleep)
We have an almost non-existant support network here. I've lived here the longest so i have a few friends i could call to babysit, but that of course would not be an option right now. He doesn't know anyone who could do this, and neither does she since she's only been here since august and pretty much uses "dad's visitation" as babysitter time.
I did tell my SO that i wanted to talk to him first about things that might come up so that we were on the same page. I was afraid of saying something that she would throw back at me saying that "he" said such in such. And, i didn't want to say something that she would go fight with him later about either. He agreed this would be a good idea the two of us to talk in advance about topics.
I'd actually prefer to go do a "mediator" session the 3 of us. But again, babysitting would be a problem. I guess if we can't talk the two of us on one of the days when my SO has the daughter then i'll suggest to do it with a mediator. heck, i'd even pay for the session myself if it meant less drama in my life! (i really hate having stuff unresolved, and having all this tension and negativity)
I'm thinking for right now, that if we DO have this talk we should meet somewhere neutral. Maybe a park? Somewhere that either of us could get up and walk away if we needed to. Plus a park is peaceful and calming which might help. (there's lots and lots of parks around here so plenty of places that are quiet,somewhat private, but still public)
The last time she tried to talk to me, she did it in the foyer of Macey's... with her friends and his parents all there right after we all went to lunch as a big group. She probably felt protected by having her two friends with her, plus it was a totally inappropriate place to be having any kind of a "talk" so it's not like i could have made a big scene. I really want to avoid something like that this time.
First of all, I wouldn't meet
First of all, I wouldn't meet with her.. period.
Second, it's none of her business who her ex dates and who the kid is around when with dad unless it is a dangerous situation.
Are you married?
No, we're not. We live
No, we're not. We live together though for about a year and a half.
I agree with your statements, but that really doesn't matter what i think cause i am currently banned from the daughter, the more my SO pushes, the more she threatens to move away (which she CAN) and he seems to think that it would help her relax if she knew who her child was around.
From the perspective of an overprotective mother, this is understandable. I would probably want to meet my ex's SO if i had a child with him and my child was going to be around this person a lot. (i wouldn't ban her though cause i really don't have that right, and i don't agree with using children as pawns. but i would at least hope that she would be willing to meet with me and talk a little bit) So, the least i can do is offer the same to this women who i might be stuck dealing with for the next X number of years.
Me and the BM have met previously. We just never really talked or anything.
She's a counselor, so she's obviously a "talky" type of person who likes to discuss stuff. Based on her behavior with her ex, this is pretty obvious.
"he seems to think that it
"he seems to think that it would help her relax if she knew who her child was around. "
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She'll only relax if she wants to & is willing to relax. In essence, that means she would have to agree to be the one to "back down". I'm not saying she shouldn't, but if she's like many of the BM's we post about here, there's a good chance she won't.
It makes no difference how kind you are, or how non-confrontational you are. It doesn't matter whether or not you present yourself as a threat to her. Some BM's are just unwilling to move.
I still think if it's at all possible, all 3 should be there. If you have to pay someone to watch his daughter, so be it. If the 2 of you have to go to her house & his daughter can be in bed, do that.
I would bet money that regardless of how you feel walking away from it, she'll walk away with different feelings & it's likely your SO will end up caught in the middle.
I have done this. I met with
I have done this. I met with BM for the first time about 6 years ago. This was about a year in to my relationship with DH. She did a lot of what you are talking about here. Would tell DH that SS wasn't allowed to be around me, she would talk poorly about me in front of SS, who was only 2 at the time. She taught him to call me names, and scream when I would come around. She would be upset before SS came over causing SS to be upset and not want to leave her. It was a mess.
The meeting went well. In fact we do it about once a year now just to iron out any misunderstandings or whatnot. From what I can remember these are the things that seemed to make it go smoothly:
I listened FIRST- I let her tell me everything that she was afraid of. I let her tell me about how she was scared SS was going to choose DH and I over her, about how it made her sick to her stomach to think that SS was cuddling with me or showing any kind of positive emotion toward me. All of the things that we ASSUMED she felt and did, she actually opened up and told me were in fact true.
I let her get emotional. She cried. I am sure it was as stressful and uncomfortable for her, as it was for me. I gave her a tissue and was patient when she had a hard time completing a sentence.
After she was done, I addressed her major concerns that applied to SS. I reminded her that SS didn't CHOOSE to come from a divorced home, and HE deserves to have both parents in his life. I told her that how it would KILL DH inside everytime SS would come home crying and screaming that he wants his mom. That just isn't fair to SS. He deserves to feel comfortable and at home with both parents.
When it would start gearing towards the divorce and the past relationship she had with DH, I would calmly remind her that custody has nothing to do with divorce, and SS didn't choose this life. When she would speak poorly of DH and that "things he has done to her", I would tell her that again, that has nothing to do with SS. That is DIVORCE issues, not custody issues.
Most importantly, I told her more than once, that I am not trying to replace her, but I do love DH, and because I love HIM, I care deeply for SS, as he is a part of him. And there is no avoiding the fact that SS and I will be a part of each others lives for a long time. I reminded her how much SS loves her, and that no one can replace his mommy.
She was receptive. She was emotional, and she has been LESS of a problem since then.
Wow, I hope this is me in 6
Wow, I hope this is me in 6 years.
She sounds just like who i am dealing with, and your responses sound exactly like things i have been thinking.
I was actually thinking to say something about the fact that because i love SO, that i care about the SD because she is part of him and will always be part of his life.
I"m glad to hear that it might be possible for a positive outcome.
(keeping in mind the above posters, not to actually expect any improvement though so i am not dissapointed if it doesn't work out)
The most important thing I
The most important thing I have learned over the past 7 years is that I cannot change her. She will be who she is no matter the effect it has on those around her. And she and I are VERY VERY different people. I can't force her to be what I consider a "good mom". In her mind, she is doing a fantastic job. And that is because... well, that is how her mom raised her. Several ugly divorces, using the kids as pawns. Never working, not motivating her kids to be anything in life. And they turned out JUST LIKE HER. I can't fault BM for not knowing any better... I can fault her for not being smart enough to figure life out on her own. She sees her mom struggling. Now going through divorce #4, not having any money (because she STILL doesn't work). Yet BM still does nothing to change her way to ensure she won't turn out that way. That, to her, is normal. I can't change it, I can't get mad at her for not changing it... all I can do is be a better role model to SS and hope he sees what a little hard work and good morals can do for his life.
I have not read anyone's
I have not read anyone's comments or even your entire thread but almost everyone that has met with the BM on this site it has come back to bite them in the ass - you do not have to talk to her and I read some more of your blog - you are walking into a trap and you will regret this meeting - I promise you - let your DH handle his ex and stay away from her - her just telling you when SHE IS READY to have a talk is not a good way to go - don't go and meet her - I know you will go anyway because you think you will change her and make it better but it won't and the next day after it happens you will be on here telling us how bad it went - this happens a lot on here - and I have never seen it turn out good - but good luck!!
Technically, i kind of did
Technically, i kind of did that to her first. She wanted to talk when they first moved here and i told my SO that it was a really bad idea and i didn't think it was good timing to talk (move + new job + new schedule and situation for everyone = lots and lots of stress).
Kind of one of those bad circles you get yourself into. (she wants to talk, i'm not ready and think it's a bad idea, finally i'm ready and she's not or she's angry that i woudln't talk to her before, now she's ready again... refusing now seems like it might end all possibility of communication for awhile)
Just be careful - there
Just be careful - there really does not need to be much communication between you - I would really let DH handle her - if she has a psychology degree she may screw with your head just for fun. We had one poster on here who was nice to her BM and then the BM turned it around and really got her good - so just be careful and don't drink any alcohol - your DH and her are an ex for a reason and you really don't need to talk to her all that much!! I say the more distance and silence the better.
Take a voice activated
Take a voice activated recorder so when she lies about every word you said you will have proof that she is a liar.
I really agree that it
I really agree that it shouldn't be necessary to meet. And, i also agree that she is probably hoping to "size me up". But, she has shown also to my SO that she is trying to make things work for their child.
She was more controlling in the beginning, but she's been slowly trying to let go a little bit and he tries to take the daughter more often for one-on-one time. (and BM isn't calling either while they are gone)
So, from this perspective it looks like she is trying. I guess I figure if i don't at least TRY then i don't really know if it would help or not.
Letting her do more talking is probably a good way to go, especially to start. If I can, i would do this as much as possible. I'm reading a bunch of books as well on how to deal with manipulative people, emotonal blackmailers and stuff like that to give me some techniques incase i need them.
And yes, the fact that she doesn't "trust me" does say that she doesn't really trust her ex's judgement. But he took her for an overnighter (her first) and also for a weekend to a daddy/daughter camp. It was after these events that she emailed me back saying that she wanted to talk if i was still open to the idea.
I guess i'm just really hoping that she is starting to see that it is ok for the daughter to be away from her. Maybe she even enjoyed having those few days all to herself. (she MIGHT even be interested in someone.. which might be sparking this decision to try and fix this situation)
At this point, she's a bit like someone who has backed themselves up against a wall, and they don't know how to back down without loosing face. She made a real fuss about all of this, if she suddenly stops then it's like admitting that she was the one who was wrong and the one who was causing all the problems. Maybe meeting will give her a way to safe face? Whatever works i guess to make this situation better.
Worst case, i guess we could get into a big fight and she can get into a bunch of fights with her ex. It probably wouldn't change much else in this situation so doesn't seem like there is a lot to loose here.
(I tape recorder is a good idea... as long as it's not for legal purposes, it shouldn't matter if they know about it or not) Just so i can play back to SO later. (another reason why emails are sometimes GOOD, and face to face is not)
Thanks for all of the warnings. They are definately in my mind, but i really appreciate the tips as well for helping to make it a potentially positive scenario. This BM/SM stuff really is like walking in a mine field.
My first thought is why
My first thought is why doesn't this guy go to court and get a CO??? This woman has him by the ba!!s, and that's never going to change until she's forced to. Legally she can't "ban" you from seeing the child during his visitation time if you guys get a legal custody agreement.
Second, in your first blog you already stated "if you were to meet her she would be really sweet and nice to you but that doesn't mean she isn't stabbing you behind your back." So what are you thinking?
Come on, you shouldn't need this woman's permission to spend time with your BF and his kid. What a ridiculous situation to put up with, there's no way in heck I would.
It's amazing what we get
It's amazing what we get stuck putting up with that we shouldn't have to.
However, the invitation is not to talk so i can get her permission. SO has already told her that she doesn't have a right to say who can be around the daughter. (mothers however are not always rational... unfortunately)
The meeting is just so we can talk and open up communication and see if there is anything that either of us can do to make this situation better. (yes, sounds so lame i know especially since the only reason this situation sucks is because of HER. But, fighting with fire never worked very well.)
As my grandpa always told me, you catch more bees with a little honey. (or something like that)
I already talked to SO, and mentioned using a mediator or possibly talking the 3 of us. So, he's thinking of those options also. He and I also talked about him and his ex going to a mediator as well if this does not work. We might as well try the cheap and free session first i guess.
Why does she have any say in
Why does she have any say in who gets to see her kid? Does the co say she gets to choose the next woman in her exs life? If you must meet her, and I don't think you do, Just let her get to know you. Don't even talk about dh and sd. Talk about your job, education, childhood, pets, vacations, parents. Hopes, dreams. 28 nieces and nephews, background with loving family, CPR training, lifeguarding in college. Tell her funny stories about your life. Let her meet your "character" and she will be comfortable with you around her kid.
I don't see any reason to tell her she needs to understand you're stable w her ex. She already knows that it's been three years. You don't have to point out that it's better to have more adults in a kids life... Everyone she knows has already told her this and she didn't like it when they told her, because she already knows. You don't need to talk about alienating you means alienating the dad. She won't care about that and it's not necessarily true. If she doesn't like you it doesn't mean dh doesn't see his kid. I suggest not trying to talk down to her because you think she's nervous or anxious. It's not up to you to make her comfortable with you in her kids life. That's her problem but if you approach this like you're trying to fix it for her it'll backfire.
Show her you're a normal good person and leave the kid talk to the parents.
Same question...why does BM
Same question...why does BM have a say? Doesn't SO have CO visitation rights set up? Considering BM is a counselor I think you have a much better chance than most at a descent existance in SO and future SD's life. However, no matter what you say you can't control BM in what she may/may not want to do but the courts always can. I hope your meeting goes well! It would be awesome to hear more good stories and I look forward to hearing great things after your meeting.
They have a plan. They don't
They have a plan. They don't follow the plan completely. This works out in SO favor so he gets to see his child more often. Pushing to enforce the plan and telling BM to stfu and deal with it would end up in less visitation. What dad is going to push for something that ends up with less flexibility, less cooperation and less visitation time?
I wouldn't even have thought of sitting down with her, if she hadn't been asking for it from the start. For this particular mom, it doesn't sound terribly unusual. She doesn't leave her child with other parents either unless she had gotten to know them pretty well. She goes to the schools and interviews all of the teachers, daycare, ycma teachers and so forth. Attends as many of those school sponsored parenting presentations as she can. While still working full time.
So, while i wholeheartedly agree that this issue shouldn't even exist. She doesn't really have any kind of a say whether i am around the child or not, it still seems like i might have to concede a little bit for a little peace.
My SO COULD bring his daughter over to our place when i am here, or we could go out together, and he would end up in constant fights with his ex. He would get stuck at her place after his visitation time "talking" to her about whatever issues. He could get endless txt messages, phone calls, emails with her all upset and emotional. And yes, this is HIS problem and something that he should be dealing with, but it does effect me also. When he comes home and spends the whole night thinking about all the "issues" and fights and is grouchy cause he's super stressed, that pretty much ruins OUR night.
I guess it's the lessor of two evils. I don't want to have to talk to her, but I don't want to have to deal with a riled up, angry, emotional woman harassing my SO every day either. :/
Everyone asks why BM has a say. Legally, she doesn't. But since when did that ever matter? The child lives with her, she's the primary care taker. If she wants to make things difficult she surely can. That's why it seems she has a say. Regardless of what the lawyers and judges think. I could fill a book with "I wish". :/
sixteensmom, that's a pretty good point about what types of things to talk about. I'd really rather just have her give me the "rules" for the kid though like she would a babysitter and call it good. TBH i don't really want to tell her stuff about my family, hopes or dreams. I am not looking to make a friend, just to open the cogs of communication a little bit. It would be nice to have a big event in SD life be something everyone can be a part of instead of trying to do 2 things, or me do my own thing and they do "family" stuff. But, i don't have any expectations of getting along THAT well. Polite, Civil is enough for me.
I guess despite the fact that these usually go badly, that it shouldn't be necessary, and that she has no say and can't "ban" me from her child. Since she originally requested it, and i put it off until things calmed down, it seems like it would be the "respectful" way to go to go ahead and meet for a talk.
Treat people like you want to be treated right? I would want some respect if it was MY child. If she tries to back stab me for it, so be it i guess, that's her problem. It can't hurt me to be nice, polite, and respectful, regardless of someone else's behavior.
I do hope it goes well though. Can't hurt to hope just a tiny bit.