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Yet another kid weekend ended in tears - mine!

EG94's picture

I find this a good place to rant and not feel so alone. Two SS 12 & 9. It was our weekend. There's issues every weekend so not sure why I'm surprised this one was any different. Continued topics to work on are teaching the 9 year old to use a knife and fork. Unbelievable right?! other topic teaching them to tidy up after themselves. So Friday fine we do the knife and fork lessons and have the evening off they go to bed. Saturday, busy day we have some fencing to put in. I just brought my house, not mine and he lives rent free and agreement is as I won't add to mortgage I pay for everything refurb wise but he will help with manual labour. Ok so wake up feed them, water them, wash up. In the garden doing the work. Come in sort their lunch, back outside. I was out helping with this fencing from 9.30 am through to 5! Come in fruit all over the side. I just mumbled and cleared. Lunch mess same thing. Had a takeaway both tired cba to cook. 9 year old has pizza picks it apart says he's done I said you're not finish it if you can please (2 crusts left) he finished it. Partner tells me today I was wrong in this. Off to bed. Get up today suggests they help around the house. No they don't come here to work, fine! I find orange peel and tissue in the washed clothes from them. I'm fuming and now reminded of all the other mess. Ask my partner to speak to them and make it clear not ok. He grumbles telling me to deal with it and softly says come on boys we have to stick to this! They leave and they have told if you leave your stuff not in your room it will binned bored of tidying up after you. This was said months ago. 9yo leaves his hat. Guess where that now is, yep the bin. My partner is fuming with me as always but never angry that his kids keep doing the same shit! I asked him to make it clear to them as he makes it clear to me how much they mean to him, make it clear to them, I'm not going anywhere, respect me and the house rules. It's not ok for me to be constantly upset with how you are when you come. No he can't do that, it's cold to his kids. So angry I could burst. Seems it's ok for them to do anything because "they're kids" 

 

ugh! Rant over. Sorry it's a long one!

Comments

Aniki-Moderator's picture

Stop. Just stop. The skids are there to spend time with their father. DAD gives knife and fork lessons. DAD fixes their meals. DAD cleans up after them. Yes, they're kids. HIS kids, HIS weekend, HIS responsibility. NOT YOURS. 

What would he do if he lived alone and got his kids for the weekend? All of the above. Next time it's his weekend, make plans for yourself and leave him to spend quality time with his kids. 

Lillywy00's picture

Well you imported this man and his messy kids into your peaceful clean home and now look where that has gotten you. 
 

I would sit all of them down, remind them of the house rules (especially your SO) and that if by "they don't come here to work" means they don't clean up after themselves then him and his kids need to find other living arrangements. 
 

They either follow your rules (as the bill payer and home owner) or they don't (if they don't then they have consequences including age appropriate punishment and / or removing their father from your home thus letting his kids run a pigs sty at his expense in a home he pays for) 

Put your foot down - all the way down - otherwise this will be a weekly disturbance which will rob you of your peace that you deserve inside your home. 

I know this feeling firsthand unfortunately 

EG94's picture

Agree wholeheartedly. My partner is very good at saying he agrees with me but softly tells the kids rather than setting clear guidelines and boundaries and most importantly being consistent. 
 

Any consequences I issue he doesn't like but any I have issued in the past have stopped the behaviour. 
 

he says he worries they won't feel comfortable, I told him they feel comfortable alright - you don't make mess in places you feel uncomfortable in!!

Lillywy00's picture

says he worries they won't feel comfortable,
 

Says a Disneyland dad who is more concerned about being a friend than being an actual parent. 
 

  1. Life isn't always going to be comfortably for any of us so teaching them that they need to be 100% comfortable at our expense is counterproductive, leads to individuals who have no respect for their elders, leads to raising mini n@rcissists in training, etc
  2. As long as they aren't being abused or neglected, Kids comfort will be considered but at the end of the day it's your house that you pay bills in so your comfort is the priority then the kids
  3. Only people who need to be 100% comfortable is our loved ones with terminal illness. If those kids aren't terminally ill and/or paying their own bills .... then providing them 100% comfort is unrealistic and unnecessary 

NotMeAnymore's picture

Key words: "Says a Disneyland dad who is more concerned about being a friend than being an actual parent. " BPs want to be buddies and hangout with their little spawns... they don't want to parent because they are afraid of losing their manipulative rascals. I've been through this picking up after themselves and talking to them, and asking my SO to talk to them... I end up being the receiver of my SOs frustration... not the spawns...

Rags's picture

Guage people by their actions and never be fooled by their words.

Stop catering to him and them.  Instead, instruct him on exactly what he will do, exactly the standards of behavior and standards of performance he and they will be held to, and enforce those standards.

"Stop right there. Pick up your mess. Never touch anything in this house and for sure in the  kitchen  unless an adult is with you."

If he cannot enforce those standards, his kids are not physically in the home unless daddy is with them and they are all under your direct hairy eyeball oversight.  If you are in the yard, they are locked out of the house and can sit their purposefully under performang under required to perform and behave asses in the dirt or better yet, do chores.

Let SO know that if he does not get himself and his failed family progeny under control, that they will all be purged from your home and your life.

Keep it simple.  "Do as you are told, or you will not be welcome in my life and home."  End of discussion.  Make sure that SO and his kids all have this message.

Defend your home and your life from their failed family crap.

I get the fury regarding the behavior of these under developed spawn.  Our early family life included SS being with his mom and I all of the time. He was a toddler.  He was at just about every event, happening, and gathering with his mom and I.  All of our friends were in his life.  We got near universal admiration for how well behaved he was, how well he communicated even as a toddler.  My college BFF would even grouse at DW and I that we were too strict.  Those same friends, when they had kids, rarely engaged socially or publicly with their kids.  When we would socialize with them either with just us and them, or in larger groups with other friends and their kids, it was all I could do to not correct their rude, ill behaved, non communicative, coddled, spoon fed (literally, and at ages entirely inappropriate to be fed by mommy and daddy), etc, etc, etc....

It is interesting that those friends all are not particularly close with their kidults.  Some of their kids are nearly incapable of functionign as adults, other of their kids are doing fine.   Those who were coddled under capable children but were held to some behavioral standards, are doing far better than the kids who were entirely coddled and did not have behavioral standards that they were held to.

 

la_dulce_vida's picture

"I just brought my house, not mine and he lives rent free and agreement is as I won't add to mortgage I pay for everything refurb wise but he will help with manual labour."

May I ask as to why this man lives rent free in your home? And gets to exercise visitation in your home?

I think you're being used.

EG94's picture

I don't want him to pay or make any financial contribution to the house as if we were to split he could make claim to having contributed to the house therefore having a financial claim. He pays half of the bills just no contribution to the mortgage. I am not financially be used at least 

la_dulce_vida's picture

The way around this is to write up a LEASE - that he is a renter. From your spelling, I suspect you're in the UK. I don't know the laws there but in the USA, when a person lives in your home, even if it's rent free, and they get mail there, they are considered a tenant and have tenants rights. In other words, you can't just kick them out without notice. And even then, you sometimes have to evict them through the courts. Him not paying anything doesn't mean he doesn't have rights in the UK.

However, if you write up a lease and agree to him paying rent, you can lay out the terms for him living there and the terms if you ever want him to leave. This should protect him from making any claims that he paid for part of your house.

Are you married? If you're married, in the USA a partner who doesn't pay a thing towards a house is STILL entitled to some of the value of the house because all income is considered marital income, so one person paying means both people are paying.

If you're not married, draw up a lease that adheres to the laws where you live, get him to pay rent and set down some rules. If you're worried you'll still be risking the value of your home, get legal advice.

thinkthrice's picture

They will still lay claim.   In my case, my partner tried to kick me out of my OWN house even though he was literally contributing NOTHING financially as 95% of his income at the time was going to the BM in non arrears child support.   

He VOLUNTEERED UNILATERALLY to overpay due to his guilt over "not being under the same roof as his kids" (TM)  and her pressuring him to do so.

ESMOD's picture

Just a few thoughts and observations... there are some red flags here to look at.

1.  I actually agree with him about the "finish your plate" thing.. that actually isn't a healthy thing to do to kids.. there is a balance with not wasting food.. so maybe the lesson is that if you can't finish two pieces of pizza.. you take one.. eat it all.. then if you are still hungry you can have a 2nd.. next time the kid gets served ONE piece.. or smaller amounts.. and see about 2nds.

2.  The lessons in table manners.. that is for his parents to teach.. but isn't it a red flag that the kid can't do it?  what about his mom.. and dad.. that had him to raise for 9 years.. what kind of manners does your SO have.. do you think you have a man that perhaps isn't so refined and mannered himself?... 

3.  Kids absolutely can and often don't mind helping.  The kids should have been out there helping with the fencing.. because it is time with their dad.. they are learning to work in a team and get the satisfaction of seeing a good job done.. it is ABSOLUTELY the kind of thing kids should do with their parents.. you don't have to give them dangerous tools.. but they can tote boards or posts.. they can hand dad tools.. learn to level... etc..   It's also part of learning that you are part of a family.. everyone contributes.. and that way things get done faster.. then everyone can go out for a treat later.. etc..

4.  I still get the occasional paper towel.. eyeglass cleaning wipe or screws in my wash.. from my husband's clothes... I know.. people should be more careful.. but the real solution here is to have your SO do his kid's laundry.. NOT you.. (where he learns to clean pockets before washing).

5.  When you find these messes.. and the kids are still there.. you tell your SO.. that he and the kids need to clean it up.  that's it... if they are gone.. HE can do it alone.. maybe he will do more about it when he is the one paying the consequence.

6.. AND this is a big one.. why are you letting him live in your home for free?  hosting his kids for free?  I know he is not on your deed..  doesn't have ownership in the home.. but that doesn't mean he shouldn't be paying RENT to you.. and as your partner.. he should ALSO want to help improve the home.. because ultimately.. if you are going to be lifelong partners.. he will be getting the benefit of living in a nicer and fixed up place right?  and wouldn't he want to help his partner.?

The last one is really concerning.. why is he not paying rent.. can he not afford it?  again another sign you may have gotten a lower class.. no mannered mooch.

Sadielady's picture

100% agree with all of this. Aside from how unfair this situation is for you, he's teaching his kids to be users/takers. Eventually, it's either going to destroy his relationship with you or destroy his relationship with them. And, impact their ability to have meaningful relationships wifh anyone. I had one goal in parenting: raise good people. And, he needs to pay rent. My home is completely in my name. I pay the mortgage and taxes, and I pay for anything that adds value to the house. But my DH pays me rent, buys the groceries, maintains the yard and pool, and contributes to everyday upkeep. 

EG94's picture

I said exactly this. I said your wife (their mother) amongst other things kicked you out because she felt like she was bringing up 3 kids (her words not my assumption) so I'm baffled as to why she is bringing up to boys to be co dependent and rely on a woman to sort their messes out. She is raising and you are too, 2 boys to be the same man she ended up divorcing. I don't get it! 

EG94's picture

Hey, 

to answer point 1. The kid tries playing us. For a LONG time he told us he was full leaving a good portion of his dinner and for a long time we said ok this cost money etc but if you are full you are full. 10 mins later can I have this that or the other so the decision was made that we don't get played by a child, if you're full that's it until next meal. This is not unhealthy this is knowing the child in front of you and how they operate. They also both insist on having adult sized meals but don't finish them. We have also introduced when we dish we say how much of this (obviously we also make sure it's a decent sized portion) and the deal is you eat what you ask for as we are empowering them to know their own stomach capacity. Hence I was pissed off when we agree all this then he tells him you don't have to eat. Oh and he did ask for sweets 15 mins after being so full. Not that full then in my opinion. He plays his mother with food which she's told me herself. One day he likes carrots the next he doesn't. She allows him to pick and chose when he will eat what. In this house that's a no. You won't be made to eat anything you don't like but if you do like it, you gunna eat it.

 

2. SO's table manners are ok, no major problems. Think it's a case of guilt with the youngest. He didn't take the separation well so mum and dad are so soft on him but oldest gets a hard time. It's almost like they parented the first but thought f**k it with the second. 
 

3. they did paint 3 panels. Then went indoors and sat on their electronics all day. I agree they could of contributed more and my partner could of involved them more. As you say many hands make light work. I think my SO and kids think this is a holiday home and therefore they are exempt for chores etc. reality check. You're not! 
 

4 my so is bad for his pockets lol I've washed his air pods loads of time because I don't check pockets. He will do washing just not as quickly as I will and do. They got their coats dirty painting so I had to get them on and washed quickly to send them home or BM would of gone mental that the coats were dirty and I just cba with more problems. 
 

5. I asked him to deal with it. He said I saw it I tell them. I pointed out we agreed I can discipline them but this I have already raised with them now I need you as my partner and their father to step up. Honestly in the calmest tone "boys we really need to stick to tidying our mess" and I was like you think that's done the trick? Adjust your tone and send a clear message to them that this isn't acceptable, it will not continue, Lisa (not my real name) is upset and I'm upset that she's upset. It stops please. No I'm telling him what to do and demanding so he refuses to do it. 
 

6. I explained on another reply. I don't want him to have any claim legally or financially to my home. He pays half the bills and buys all shopping so we have found a fair way that I'm happy with. He is also happy to help manual labour just not cost wise which I accepted and agreed to 

ESMOD's picture

1. " They also both insist on having adult sized meals but don't finish them."  They are 9 and 12.. they don't get that option.. they get an option of the child's menu.. or you pick a meal for them.. or give them a couple of choices.  I can guaranty.. those kids would be eating the leftover meal for breakfast.. if they didn't finish it at dinner too.  I mean.. come on.. you are the adults here.. not them.. I don't see them whipping out a card or cash to pay for dinner.. so they don't get that much power.. .  And.. they maybe don't get asked how much they want.. ?  maybe they get a moderate child sized appropriate offering.. then can have MORE if they are hungry.  and they don't get sweets 15 minutes later.. they can ask.. the answer can be NO.. and offer a cheese sandwich.. or leftover from dinner small plate if they didn't eat enough.

2.  does the 2nd child have other development issues.. has he/she been assessed for deficiencies?  maybe it's a motor skill issue.

3.  This goes to the last point too.. your SO thinks your home is disneyland.. this is a major user issue with him.. he needs to understand that this is a home.. and people living in a home contribute.

4.  dad should probably have some "work/play" clothes for the kids to wear when they do stuff like painting a fence.. even old shirts of his.. etc..   but he should have been the one to jump to washing the kid's clothes.. 

5.  he is throwing you under the bus with his kids.. you are the bad guy.. that is not good partner behavior and crappy parenting.

6.  Just because you pay a landlord rent.. does NOT mean you have any claim over the home.. actually in the US.. the WORK he is doing on the home.. he could consider a "mechanic's lien".. where he would be owed the value of his labor.  He is not happy to pay rent.. he is happy to putter a bit and live for free.. and host his kids.. and pay HALF of the bills (when on weekends there are three on his tab.. and only you?).. he IS mooching off you.. and this arrangement is not fair.  You could seek legal counsel for this issue.. but I guaranty that if you did a month to month lease agreeement with a reasonable "rent" and he ALSO pays half the bills.. or maybe a bit more due to the kids being there.. and you both do manual labor.. because.. what kind of man will sit on his hind end and watch a woman build a fence by herself if he cares about his partner.

You have been fed some BS bill of goods that he is being oh so helpful.. the guy is using you.. and blaming you to his kids.. 

EG94's picture

1, you're preaching to the choir. I have said many times they are kids they don't get such choice they get told. SO doesn't agree. We have after many wasted meals reduced portion sizes to kids size. The answer is ALWAYS no to snacks when you didn't eat a perfectly good meal. One time he said he was full said fine nothing else. Ok. I did desert. He asks if he can have, said no you're full. Partner said I was harsh. It seems I'm always harsh for following through with a consequence but his gremlins are never wrong for doing the action that's not ok! 
 

2. I think he has autism. He has no awareness for how his words or actions upset others. He seems to be socially awkward, struggles to make friends. Food is a problem but we have gotten around that, we play down the meal if it's new and nine times out of 10 he loves it. SO came round to the idea might be something wrong bujt BM shut it down as no there is nothing wrong with him at all. He is perfect. Ok 

3. working on it because they are old enough to cater for themselves to a certain extend. I'm not a skivvy 

4. they brought work clothes but didn't think to bring old coats which they have or shoes despite knowing the activity they were doing but again this isn't the kids fault in my partners eyes. For me is joined up thinking because the youngest made a comment about keeping his old coat for when he is in the garden. My SO thinks they are dumber than they actually are 

5. yes he is. Told him he is sending a message to the kids that's he doesn't agree with me so kids shouldn't either. He needs to send a message we are united and make it clear just as she will not upset you ( outside of them being told things they need to) you will not upset her. But seems the fixation is always on his kids and how they feel not his partner and how I feel. 
 

6. in the UK it works different but to give context my mortgage is around £400. His half would be £200. He spends that and more on the shopping. So for me this agreement is fair for us. If my mortgage was £900 and he was spending £200 then I agree but that's not the case. 
 

im trying to be patient because we are all new to this. I'm new to step kids, this is the first time his kids have been introduced to a woman other than their mother. We seem to have debates and disagreements about topics such as the above and it will take him a few weeks but then he does get onboard. Just delayed and bloody frustrating 

ESMOD's picture

for 6 you just said he paid half the bills..your mortgage is really not the relevant point here.. what would he typically pay to rent a room.. half a house in your area.. could he do it for 150?  250?  If so.. then he should pay the "rent" of 150.. plus half the bills which are let's say.. 600.. so 150 plus 300.

Now.. if you are saying your mortgage is 400.. and bills are 400.. and he pays all bills.. you pay all mortgage.. that's not too unfair.. but consider if you put a lot of money down on the home.. and rent would be normally 600. he is still getting a better deal.

think about it.. could he live more cheaply if he was not with you?.. It would likely be a lot more

EG94's picture

Oh 100% would be a LOT a more. I am not blind to this. He also earns less. But for the half of the shared bills and half of the mortgage say that comes to £550 he pays the same £550 just elsewhere because I do not buy a single item of shopping for this house. Food toiletries, top up shops. I don't pay a penny for those. Our outlay is the same just divided differently. There are a lot of things he does which isn't fair especially they way he puts the kids above everything regardless of my feelings but financially, it is halves. Yes that half is less because I put a large down payment on the house, yea he benefits from that. That was done before we met. He has offered to pay rent which is why I will say no, it's not unfair but I've said no so there is no legal comeback

la_dulce_vida's picture

The only problem with your math is that the $550 in bills he is paying includes the use of utilities and food for HIS kids. You are ONE person. He has THREE people in your house at times.

What's included in his $550?

Wifi and TV might be stable costs, but many costs are billed by usage, so his $550 is not really sharing costs with you.

In addition to his expenses, he should be saving money for the two of you to do things together: vacations, dates, etc.

Is he saving properly to finance his retirement, too?

EG94's picture

Yea he saves and yea he pays for dates etc. I pay if it's like a birthday or once in a while but my money is firmly tucked away for my home. He has made murmurs of me contributing to kids pocket money but I shut that shit down and said no I'm really sorry they are not mine and I don't want to spend my money on them. Just as this house is not yours legally and you don't want to invest money in the refurb. He didn't like it but was forced to accept it

ESMOD's picture

The fact that he had the stones to even suggest you subsidize his kids any more than you already are?  That is a big problem... I guess if they are only there a handful of days a month.. they may not be an overly large drain on the costs.. but if you approaching 25% or more time in your home.. it's not fair.

I also cringe a little bit when a man is not earning as much as a woman.. because the decks are still well stacked in a man's favor with salaries.. 

It feels like you are likely dating beneath you.. to a disney dad.. who is happy to pay minimum... while he pushes you to do more for him and his kids.

Expect the request to subsidize them to come up again.. if you ever DO get married.

EG94's picture

If it comes up he will once again be reminded your kids are not my problem. I am not paying for two children which in honesty bring me problems and grief. I told him I'd prefer if he didn't have them he didn't take well to this but I'm honest. I get they aren't going anywhere but if I could have him and no kids that would be a preference. Guess the truth hurts 

ESMOD's picture

When I met my SO.. I think I asked him several times if he had kids.. I don't know.. maybe I had a mental block and was erasing his answer every time.. lol.. but he finally said.. I have 2 girls.. I have told you this already.. why do you keep asking.. I jokingly answered.. "I guess hoping the answer would change.. haha"

I have no kids.. I was in my middle 30's when we met...  his girls were 5 and 9.  That was a steep learning curve.. I guess since I was never really a "kid person" I didn't know what to do with them really.. so I stepped back and let my SO parent them and care for them..I helped only marginally.. and while I did have a few helpful suggestions about things that would improve their lives....(better manners.. small things).. and a very few house rules (to prevent outright destruction).. I let him be the "dad" and I was "ESMOD".  In the end.. because I didn't overly step in and try to parent them.. I think that made it easier for me to build a relationship with them slowly.. over time.. I got more comfortable asking them to do small things.. like "Hey.. can you grab your papers from the dining room table and put them away please?"  "Can you bring your sheets down so we can wash them".. "can you put silverware on the table.".... small day to day tasks.. not really "chore list".. but just the helpful small things that you expect a kid will do if you ask them.

Again.. I really left most of the parenting up to my DH.. and while I did things for and with his girls.. I never tried to push into parent territory.. and he NEVER asked me to pay or subsidize them.. though I did voluntarily do nice things for them.

Harry's picture

First of all I can understand you not wanting him to pay for house upgrades.  But everyone has to pay rent. You rent a apartment, a year later you don't tell the apparent management company you own part of the building.  SO must pay  rent. As a lease,  He gets to share a bed,  all the rooms for $X a month. 
'His kids are his responsibility, he cleans up after them. He is right  his kids don't have to work when over. You don't have to cook clean, Uber.  Buy food, clothes ect. For those kids. 
'This relationship is looking not good. If you are fighting about the small things,  That he thinks you should " mother" his kids ,  That his kids are your responsibility,  you have a serious problem.
 

Most divorce people , like all people want the  famous " HAPPY FAMILY ". They had there chance, it ended with the divorce.  They can not recreate it.    Because your Hapoy Family doesn't include his kids 

EG94's picture

Think you hit the nail on the head. His kids are not my family and certainly do not bring me joy and happiness. They are imposters every other week who take over my home and steal my peace. They have no boundaries at home and my SO was in that environment for 10 years so can see the culture shock of wow this woman handles kids different but I firmly believe I handle the right way. Him and the kids I believe think they can live by the same rule in my house and it's a steep learning curve for all that you absolutely cannot. 

Rumplestiltskin's picture

I have what might be a strange opinion about this type of situation. It's one thing to be the caregiver for his kids if he is financially supporting you and this is your arrangement. In a way, you would be "doing your job" in exchange for not having to go out and earn a living elsewhere. Same with being a stay-at home spouse and caring for the home. I've seen this work for some people.

BUT - if you are paying half (or in your case most of) the bills, this is not your job. His kids are his job and at their ages, they are unlikely to accept you as a parent figure anyway. I tried it with my SO's kids. I have kids and i always handled them with little trouble. I thought, "What's adding a few more kids, my kids aren't difficult for me so this will be fine."

It was not fine. SO's kids were not raised with the same values or behavior standards as mine (not saying mine are perfect, just different) and the younger SS actually hit and kicked me, and would just run off in public at age 9. It wasn't his fault, as he was raised differently.

I then refused to watch him because i can't be responsible for a kid who won't listen to me. SO has never paid my bills, either, so i am firmly disengaged and won't cohabit while kids are in the home. Your SO either needs to do for his own kids when they are present or host them elsewhere.

Funny you mention the knife and fork thing. I remember looking at SS now 14 and having to explain and demonstrate how to cut meat at age 10. His parents did it for him until then. He also couldn't tie his shoes and neither SS (14 and 20) can ride a bicycle. They have corrected their behavior to some extent on their own due to likely peer pressure, but they have been failed in many ways. We can't fix them once they get past a certain age and even if they are babies, unless they are with us fulltime, there isn't much we can do. All we can do is manage the extent to which we will allow our partners' parental failures to impact us. 

thinkthrice's picture

I was apalled when I saw that the Animal Torturer (SD) wood just sit back and let Chef cut up her food for her at age SIX!

Then Chef would say "but I LIKE doing things for them!"

IOW they enjoy infantalizing their kids to get back time misses with them especially as NCP.

Rags's picture

It is time for the choir to fire the breeder partner with the failed family baggage.

Re-read your OP and the comments.

Save yourself.  More importantly, respect yourself and stop letting this failed family spawn butt sniffing failure detract from your life.

Equity partnerships can take on various formats, there is nothing equity partnership like in your relationship.

Take care of you.

thinkthrice's picture

RUN NOW before you get completely entrenched!!!  This does NOT get better over time!!

Thumper's picture

 

You have a lot of power in this current situation. Will you use it or not?