Poor SS, always the victim
Ah, after months of SS18 and DH not talking much, all of a sudden SS is blowing up DH's phone. Funny how that works when he needs something.
On Fri, SS's car started having issues. SS used to have a 2011 car, and when it started having issues, he (DH) sold it and bought a '06 "sporty" car. I told DH and SS it was a bad idea- you don't buy an older car than what you had. DH agreed. SS doesn't know anything about cars or how to fix them, and this make is expensive to fix. SS is in college across the country with no $ to fix it. But DH just could not tell him no, and SS has to get his way, so DH cosigned the loan anyway. So SS was doing all this crap with his car on Sat, texting and calling DH, and DH finally told him we were going into his work Holiday party then so DH wouldn't be able to respond to him. SS didn't give a single shit. He just kept texting and even calling DH. DH kept responding, and googling car parts, and even left the table to take SS's calls (we were at a bar with his boss, a coworker and their wives). The wives were friends already and were not expecially welcoming, so I just sat there feeling out of place. DH told me it would cost $2K to fix SS's car!! I asked how he would have done that, and he said he probably would have flow there. Um, Excuse me?? DH owes me money, so when he is putting money towards bailing SS out of a situation that should have never happened in the first place, I have feelings. Not to mention this is uneccessarily interrupting the party, because SS didn't HAVE to fix this all that second. He's in college- he doesn't need a car. He can get a ride to work 1 mile away.
But in a crazy turn of events, SS called him again- he had taken his car to a tire place to look at it, and they had forgotten to put the lug nuts back on 1 tire....as he was driving home, the tire FLEW OFF and damaged the car so much that our ins. company declared it a complete loss. They are giving SS what he paid for it, so it's actually a blessing in disguise, because now DH doesn't have to fly to SS and fix his car and bail him out. DH said he's all pouty about his precious '06 car being totaled, and DH had to remind him that if it hadn't been, he would have $2K worth of work he would need to do on the car, and how did he think that was going to get paid for? DH said SS is already looking at cars of the same Make. I told DH that's ridiculous and he better not let him buy another older car- because DH is SS's "Mechanic", and until SS can pay for repairs, he needs to buy something practical. When SS has money of his own to pay for repairs, he can get what he wants. SS doesn't give a sh*t about it, he just expects DH to bail him out.
I did lay everything out for DH this wknd- I said I'm sick of him blaming me for SS's bad behavior. When does it end? He said that's not what he was doing, but that SS has said things to him like "what is her deal, why is she always on me"?, so the perception is there that I am always nagging at skids and he doesn't want me to be the bad guy with them. I said, first of all, YOU tell me I can/should approach them with things they are doing wrong if it bothers me. And I rarely get on SS for anything- but if I do, it's because 1. He doesn't do what he's told, or 2. He's lied. So if he's acting like a victim, that's BS and he's not taking any accountability, like usual. I said you didn't need to bring him into it because he hasn't been an issue with us for months and I will not fight about SS forever. DH said he doesn't want to ever fight about SS again. I also told DH that things needed to change that day- immediately, or we WOULD be separated. His eyes immediately got glassy- he said he does not want that at all. He is sick of fighting. But this is what happens. I know he doesn't want it. We love each other. He just falls back into his old patterns and I'm sick of it. Still, imagine being 18 and running to daddy to complain because you got called out like 3 times for not doing something you were told to do, or lying. Unreal.
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I can't see DH getting your
I can't see DH getting your message unless you separate. He lives in a fantasy world. He thinks SS is normal and you live on his shit sandwiches.
My DH and I were separated for 18 months. We are celebrating 20 years together next month. Not all separations lead to divorce. Life without me in it was a true wake call for DH.
Hang in there.
I’m afraid of this
I honestly have a pit in my stomach half the time because I don't know why things would change this time. I mean yes I threatened to separate. But DH easily forgets. So I feel like I'm just waiting for it to go back to fighting, etc. Hoping I'm wrong but also fearing I'm not.
What were your living arrangements while you were separated?
DH moved into a nearby
DH moved into a nearby apartment.
Victimhood
I know exactly what you mean about the poor, lying victim. I have that with SD63. Everything that happens to her, whether its just normal life or the result of her drastically poor judgement, she calls DH, usually hinting for a bailout. We have 4 other kids, 2 of his and 2 of mine, and they all handle reality without calling for help unless it's very serious,like being wiped out by a hurricane a d needing shelter for awhile.
With SD63, a lot of it is the bid for pity. But, I've found a way to severely limit the contact. For the past 9 years, we've been subsidizing her housing. But last year, she and I discussed the necessity for her to get in federal housing. Since then, when I see her on her monthly visit to pay her part of the rent, I grill her about it. She wants the whole topic to vanish so I'm seeing and hearing less from her, DH, too. Lol.
Can’t do it
I have a real issue with people who are always the victim. And that's SS. Demon was too, but lately she has come to her senses a bit and she's stopped the pity party. SS is always a victim. It's always someone else's fault. If someone else is recognized, he is upset that it wasn't him, even if there was no reason it should have been. *Cue the entitlement. He's been walking around tweaking the story about how DH was sooo awful to him so he is absolutely a victim, with no mention of his disrespect or wrongdoing. The fact that you are still dealing with this with a 60+ year old just boggles the mind.
Hmmm. Pain is an education path.
How about stopping giving her the rent money and pay the land lord directly for half of her rent every month. That way she gets no say in how your support is spent. Bet that ends her visits.
Bonus!
Your DH is such an idiot. I am furious at him for you for
Your DH is such an idiot. I am furious at him for you for leaving you with his work people to take calls from SS for something that was not an emergency. That was rude and disrespectful. I am glad you laid it all out for him. The next step is to start following through if he doesn't start making some real changes.
Now that you say it I'm
Now that you say it I'm irritated all over again. I did tell him I hope this wasn't how it was going to be all night. But shortly after that was when SS called and his tire had flown off so it was difficult to really get after him. But yes, he had already told SS he was going to his party and wasn't going to be available- SS is plenty old to know daddy can't always answer. And leaving me alone at a table of people I didn't know who were having private conversations was not ok, to tend to his man child.
It's frustrating when you
It's frustrating when you actually do have the kid's interests at heart.. and you feel accused of not being supportive.. just because you don't want your partner to become mr bank/beckandcall/savior to his kids for all eternity.
Both my SD's are grown.. and have been (mostly) independent for the past 8+ years... they are 26-30 years old..
But.. you never know when the "you hate my kids" narrative will poke it's head up after years of relative "bliss" And.. I have a fairly decent relationship with my Skids.. but it was alwas a bit more dicey with OSD... she is not necessarily my kind of person.. but we are friendly and civil.. no conflicts since she was a teen.
But, she is currently going through a divorce situation.. now having to live on her own.. and they haven't been able to get her EX to court to sort out any CS.. he makes significantly more than her.. and while they have 50/50 right now.. it's a bigger burden on her. The guy was controlling and abusive.. and made her life miserable... but his lawyer is one of those delay and stall guys.. which keeps her broke. Anyway.. lots of info, but it sets the stage for our "fight".
She found a place to rent.. she can afford it.. but barely... it has a lawn to mow...the landlord has a reasonable monthly landscaping guy that can do it.. (the place is about 45 min from us).. so I'm like..that's great. She gets the low tire warning.. tells her dad who tries to talk her through stopping asap to put air in it.. she doesn't deal with that until she is on the way home from her 1plus hour commute to work.. (passes plenty of stations both ways).. doesn't know how to put air in.. at 30 years old SMDH. Doesn't know how to work her gas stove.. lots of doesn't know's.. DH spends a lot of time on the phone and trips up to walk her through.. put slime in the tire etc... She gets tires on btw.. buys three.. they put them on every tire that isn't leaking.. she just decides to go back and buy a fourth when she has time.
So.. again.. to the argument.. he is talking to me about all the "support" he will give her.. he will go up there and mow her lawn (which requires loading the riding mower in a truck bed and dicey getting it in and out.. burning at least 2 hours of time and fuel. Talks about possibly helping her with money.. talks about going up to do things that are in reality things that "I" can do pretty easily myself. I kind of pop off with the "You need to teach her how to be independent.. this is her new normal.. she needs to figure out how to budget.. (like maybe not get botox???) She needs to figure out how to deal with custody schedule.. how to keep air in her own tire.. how to get her own grass mowed.. how to do simple things.. it's not doing her any favors to constantly bail her out.
AND.. he only works PT himself.. I pay the majority of our bills (he is semi retired).. He does a lot for US but we have a lot of projects that WE could use him working on if he has extra time and resources.
He gets mad.. "well, I just won't help her at all.. if you don't want me to.. you always have a problem with her"..
I'm back at him with .. Well, you know, she is 30 years old... and didn't know how to put air in her tires.. that is something that anyone could google and figure out.. she has an f'ing phone DH. I get wanting to be there for your kids.. and I have been right there with you house hunting for her.. giving her advice etc.. I don't hate her.. but she is an adult.. and needs to figure out how to stand on her own two feet.. it's for her own benefit that she becomes self sufficient. And.. yeah.. I don't want you spending all your "spare" time up the road helping her when we have our own things that need doing. To an extent.. DH.. she needs to figure this out.
He finally kind of realizes I'm just trying to put some limits on some kind of "open checkbook" situation to help and finance her situation..we just can't afford to do either really. and he calms down.
But.. yeah.. we have to muddle through the "you hate my kid" thing.
And.. I have to kind of put it out there.. that I hate that his kid is so helpless at 30 years old.. she should know how to research things.. like putting air in a stupid car tire. we shouldn't have to drop everything to run out to see her every time she comes across some small thing. and.. we have helped her I've bought things for her new place.. helped her with other stuff too.. I don't mind helping.. just don't want it taking over OUR lives.
Makes you wonder if SD's DH
Makes you wonder if SD's DH became controlling over time because she was so helpless and he (wrongly) thought he had to do and think of everything. How do you get to be 30 and never put air in a tire? Her DH must have been doing everything. Or maybe she became helpless because he insisted on doing everything. In any case, ugh!
I don't think he became
I don't think he became controlling because she was incapable necessarily.. he was always pretty judgemental.. she had to look "nice".. (read be well dressed, hair done nicely.. thin). He got her to trade in her paid for car so they could get a "nicer car".. that was in his name.. so then he wouldn't let her drive it places if he didn't approve.. like he didn't like one of her friends.. (not a bad friend.. just poorer girl who had kids early.. no drugs or any issues like that).. so he would take her keys so she couldn't go.
He wanted to spend all his time with his friends.. or his family.. she was expected to accept and "comply"
As far as the tire.. she has always been someone that pretty much was a bit on the "dumber" side honestly.. I remember being on vacation with YSD when YSD was maybe 10.. and OSD would have been 14ish.. and she calls her younger sister to ask her how to make a grilled cheese on the george foreman grill.. asking the 10 year old.. lol.
I mean.. OSD told my MIL that I am one of the "smartest women" she has ever known.. so I guess over the years.. she realizes I'm worth listening to now.. but I also want her to LEARN to figure out things a bit... look things up.. call dad for advice.. but not make it a "daddy come save me".. but more of a "daddy.. I have an issue.. this is how I think I can fix it".. like she didn't just take the "lazy" way of just asking vs seeing if she could do it on her own.
I actually think that over tiime, she will develop more confidence by learning to do things vs just thinking that she has to get someone else to fix all her needs.
I think HER DH probably did more taking care of car stuff.. but he also kept her in newer cars that didn't really have too many issues... and the one thing her dad did instill in her was to get regular oil changes (where they can find issues before they become major).
I get frustrated because her grandmother (who was a big part of her life growing up).. is one of those "I'm just not smart.. That's why I can't do things".. when I think they both are smart enough... they just don't believe in themslves that they CAN do things if they try.
I agree that as she practices
I agree that as she practices learning and doing, she will become more confident. And hopefully with more confidence she won't fall for another complete a-hole like her ex. That type of guy loves having a woman he can control.
Flashbacks
Reading your post, I'm having flashbacks when SD63 and her DH#2 split up in 2010. She had been pretty self-sufficient during their marriage but I now credit her DH#2 for that. Once she was on her own, living in the house without his support, financial and otherwise, it was "call Dad" time. The kids were out, thank goodness. But car payment, gas bill, insurance, one thing after another. Supposedly, these were all loans and she would repay once the house was sold. But, oops, there were judgements from her unpaid charges so little or no $ then.
She moved to an apartment with her oldest daughter but more probs with bills. DH and I were both working and making good $ so I probably wasn't as vigilant as now. She applied for disability and was assured she'd get it + back disability during the wait. So, more "loans" til the disability payday. But, oops, there were unpaid taxes that were taken from the payback $ so no repayment then. She lasted in that apartment for a year til evicted them to another where I've since learned she used my name to get it. That lasted a year til again evicted when she moved in with us.
So, yes, your post is giving me flashbacks. She lasted here one horrible year then we got her another place which we subsidize. She still has all her issues all made worse by her lousy health and poor judgement. It's a loser all around.
Why would a man call his daddy about a flat tire?
Pathetic.
EDIT: I saw that SS's wheel fell off while he was driving. That could have ended very badly. I'm glad SS is uninjured. Still, what is daddy going to do about it from a distant location? Cars are a responsibility that the individual has to be able to deal with on their own. In the age of smart phones, that makes most things a non issue. Back in the days of find a pay phone a driver had to figure it out for themselves and calling daddy from your out of state college location was not an option. I know. I had a cool older car (20yrs old) when I was first at university and my parents were on the opposite side of the planet. I had a transmission problem and could not shift into either first or reverse (manual transmission). So, I would have to start in a higher gear and alwas park on level ground or facng uphill if I had to reverse. I had to work out getting it repaired for myself. Which took some time but I figured it out. The mechanic I took it to tried to rip me off. So I told him to put it back together and I would come get it. Surprise. It needed a $2 part and not the $thousand shift linkage replacement he originally tried to gouge me for. WIth labor it cost $40 for the repair. Yes, a notable learning moment as the memory is clear as a bell 4+ years later. Time for daddy to tell this Kidult to figure it out. And no more cosigning car notes. KIds want to play adult, they chould have to adult.
He calls daddy about everything
He text DH at midnight asking him how far down a condom should go. Literally INCAPABLE of figuring out life without calling or texting DH. And DH enables it more often than not. I will say he has been making SS do certain things- call an accident attorney to see if he has a case against the tire place, make the payments for college from his student loan himself (which he is supposed to be doing anyway). But the rest of the time he is taking SS's calls even when he's told him not to call, acting like he's not 18. SS is never going to function on his own without calling daddy for everything if DH is constantly available. Last night SS sent DH car listings every few minutes, all night. DH spent the whole night looking at them and responding. It was like every car SS saw (of course only this 1 make of car), he sent DH. He probably wasn't even serious about most of them. But did it take DH's attention all night? Sure did!
Though the tire place did F-up. SS owns it.
He did not look at his car when he got it back. Basic car responsibility 101. You get work done, you have the shop give you the walk around tour and description of everything they did.
IF you and daddy are going to replace it, it is time for daddy to replace this POS car with an affordable birth control brand and model that is reliable and under a ridiculously long fix everything warranty and never spend another cent on a car for his Kidult. We gave SS *then 19) a brand new economy mid sized domestic sedan with a nice upgrade package as his combination HS graduation, Christmas, USAF enlistment gift. He kept it for 12 years, drove it on two continents, and it was extremely reliable and affordable for him to maintain and insure. He replaced hit when he was assigned back in the US after 5 years in Europe where the drove the wheels off of it. He paid for his new car entirely on his own. When he was 30. Mission accoplished. Reliable transportation provided by his mom and me as a transition to adulthood gift. He has never asked for a Cent from his mom and me since ;aunching at 18. He did not even ask for the car. It was a surprise.Some decisions have to be made by the parent and not subject to the brainless, cool factor deisres, and fee fee driven brain farts of Kidults who have not yeat full brain development. If SS whines and cries, then he can figure out and pay for his transportation for himself. With no help from daddy in the purchase, or the maintenance.
IMHO of course.
TrueNorth, between your SD
TrueNorth, between your SD (who's doing better by now but only in comparison to the absolute dumpster fire she previously was), your SS, and your DH's ineffective parenting, idk how you do it.
I have had this same thought
Many days I think why. WHY am I here. I don't know if this is worth it. We are so close to being empty nesters that it's hard to throw in the towel after ALL OF THIS BULLSH*T.
Even once they are out. Nothing changes, unless you re-key locks
If DH has not retrained his failed family baggage to be decent, they will not be decent and will remain a drain and infection in your life, home, and marriage even once you reach empty nest status..
The sunk cost concept when deciding to continue or end it IMHO is a huge fallacy. It is not a business investment, it is a peace, living your best life choice. If the fundamentals are flawed and remain unchanged, the SKidults are nearly always even more of a nightmare than they were as minor SKids.
Deep breaths and be discerning in your choices.
Take care of you.
It’s amazing the story these kids can tell.
In there story's everyone are on there side, they are told to do the right thing [ buying a old expensive sports car is a great ideas.
There are the best car in the world,everyone should buy one. ] nothing will happen. But then every small repair is a $1,000. Ifs circumstance that that car keeps on breaking.
DH is buying in on this as much as SS. you don't want to leave , I can understand not warning to start over, you have to make a money spread sheet. Of monthly and yearly expenses. What leaves DH with X amount of disposable income a month . What he can do with as he pleases. You have the sane amount of $. He can give it all to SS.
My youngest tried that.
My youngest tried that. Wanted a cool, older car. Instead got a gently used compact car that's still under warranty. I was not about to deal with constant repairs.
Old classics are awesome, if you can fix them yourself.
My first cars were Mid 60s to Late 60s. I could do all but major engine repairs myself with basic tools, a jack, and blocks to put it up on.
Never again unless I can get the perfect classic. Even then, I would far more likely than not have a shop do the work.
There are not many teens and 20s kids who can or would do their own vehicle maintenance.
Toxic victimhood is a top tier manipulation strategy.
They play the victim over, and over and over again. This builds the guilt fee feesresponse in the target person who then gets an endorphin/warm fuzzy by rescuing the toxic victim.
I find people who use the toxic victim strategy to be reprehensible at the highest level of the "can't stand em" scale.
IMHO they have to be left to rot or resolve their own problem and get nothing but "Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. Write when you figure it out. Buh-bye.". Only answer 1 out of several calls and then only if it is conveniet to answer at all. If you are into a commercial while watching TV, that is not a convenent time to answer. If yo are doing anything, including napping. That is not a convenient time to answer. The more pain they are experiencing, the better.