We moved forward and the ex changed her tune

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Thanks for all the help. I read every comment and read up on Parental Alienation and we don't think that's what's going on here. There might be a little of that but its not the main thing. My husband and his daughter met with a family counselor yesterday and he agreed that she's at an age where many girls want to be closer to their mom. Her mom just went through cancer treatment so that's part of it too. She's 12, btw. So my husband is taking steps to change her schedule because he (and the counselor) are convinced it's what she really wants and itd be good for her to have more time with her mom right now. Her mom is the one who brought all this up to my husband and said their daughter wants to be with her (and then my stepdaughter talked to her dad about it very clearly). But now that my husband has agreed to change the schedule from 50/50 to every other weekend with him, his ex is changing her tune! She's claiming that it's his fault that their daughter misses her so much (how, she didn't explain) and that it's not healthy for her to change her schedule. We knew this might happen. She's not a bad mom but she gives up time with her daughter to be with her boyfriend a lot. So were not surprised that she's trying to keep her daughter from living with her full time. For years she's told us and her daughter that she's so unhappy not seeing her every other week, she calls her daughter crying but we know that she wants her free time. So now my husband is at a loss. He believes this is what his daughter really wants and needs right now to be with her mom, and the therapist agreed it's worth a try. My husband has agreed to give up his time with his daughter and that wasn't easy. He loves her so much. He just wants to do whats right for her. She's had such a hard time with her mom's cancer and thankfully her mom is in recovery and doing really well and he thinks their daughter just wants to be closer to her. But now her mom is saying no but not telling her daughter why or telling her that somehow its her dad's fault when he's doing everything he can to make it happen. He doesn't know what to do without throwing his ex under the bus. He will not do that. He asked her if she'd sit down with their daughter and the counselor and she said no she will only meet with him and the daughter, no counselor. But my husband thinks a mediator is a good idea right now. What is he supposed to do now?

He would love to do something

He would love to do something like that but his daughter was very clear that she wants to live with her mom. She also said that she wants to spend EVERY weekend with her dad and see him TWICE during the week for visits every week. She said that her mom wouldn't allow her to spend every weekend with her dad so it's obviously something they talked about. At first we thought she was so clear because she was being coached by her mom but now that her mom doesn't want her full time we think it was really coming from my stepdaughter.

Maybe change from 50/50 to

Maybe change from 50/50 to every other weekend is a bit too much. Can you guys do every weekend or something similar?

I'm not defending BM but when she said that SD wanted to spend more time with her, did she say every other weekend schedule? If she is still recovering from cancer treatments, she may not have the energy for that type of schedule.

That's why this is all so

That's why this is all so confusing. When the mom told my husband that their daughter wanted to come live with her, she didn't say anything about her cancer, energy, etc. My husband even asked her about that and she said she's feeling really great (she just ran a half marathon last weekend!). She said that their daughter misses her and needs her mom right now. So my husband thought she was on board. His daughter told him she wanted to spend Monday through Thursday with her mom and Friday through Sunday with us but her mom said that wouldn't work because she needs weekends with her. So my stepdaughter said to her dad maybe every other weekend would work because that's what her mom wanted. But now the mom is turning an about face and refusing to sit down with a mediator to figure this out.

I should clarify that the

I should clarify that the counselor did speak to the the mom on the phone just not in person with my husband and stepdaughter. He doesn't know exactly what the counselor and his ex talked about but he assumed that she was onboard from how the counselor proceeded. Btw, his ex said she couldn't make the drive to meet with them all in person which is what my husband suggested. Were worried that what you described will happen and my husbands main goal is to keep his daughter from being hurt.

I think that's what he will

I think that's what he will say to his daughter at this point. I totally get what you're saying about 12 year olds! But after she brought this to her dad, he read her journal and she's been writing about wanting to live with her mom for over six months. She was understandably nervous about talking to him about it she said that in her diary. Which is part of why my husband was clear with her that he loves her very much and it will break his heart to see her less but he will do it if it will help her right now and make her happy. I think that's a pretty unselfish loving dad. Believe me he wouldn't move on this if he didn't think it was what she truly wants and needs right now!

I know what you're saying but

I know what you're saying but this has been building for six months and the mom agreed that her daughter needs to live with her just days ago. Doesn't the counselor's opinion mean anything?

What is MOTY? It is true that

What is MOTY? It is true that my husband called his ex's bluff. I think that's exactly what happened. I think that my husband is leaning toward meeting with his ex and his daughter just like you described even if she won't do it with a mediator there. They don't yell or fight or anything, it won't be like that. But he does believe that without making his daughter feel rejected the ex somehow needs to explain why this isn't happening. It's not fair for him to get blamed for this when he's just trying to do the right thing. It's crazy to think that just 3 days ago his ex called him and said "our kid wants to live with me full time, she needs her momma" and now she's turning away. I think my stepdaughter will need help figuring out how to deal with her mom. My husband is in therapy just for himself with a family counselor who helps families after divorce. He's been doing that since the divorce 7 years ago because he wants to be the best dad he can be. But the ex doesn't believe in therapy.

SHe's always been difficult

SHe's always been difficult with my husband, not thing too crazy just hard to work with and a little on the selfish side. She also demands lots of time from my husband. I think what has set her off over the past six months is that my husband has been gently moving their m eetings from in person to email and not picking up the phone every time she texts him "CALL ME!!!" she used to do that all the time and it was usually something small with their daughter or something he didn't even need to know. But I don't think it's her cancer treatment. She's been really strong and steady through that actuallly.

If he wanted to be generous

If he wanted to be generous he could talk to his ex (without their daughter) and say, that he and the therapist think that it would be good for SD to spend more time with her mom and that is why he agreed to eowe despite him personally being happy with their current arrangement. But he realizes now that he should have talked to her (BM) first before discussing specifics with their daughter. He could say that he realizes that having just recovered from cancer she may feel like she can't cope with having SD that much and he doesn't want to cause her any extra stresses at this time.Then he can ask BM if there is another schedule that will allow SD to see more of her mom but won't overwhelm her. They can take the discussion from there. My suggestion would be something like 3 weekends a month (don't do every weekend, it is too much and you will resent BM for having free weekends, I've been there 3 is good) and one night a week. That way BM can get some regular time to herself but SD is living with her mom.

I'm sorry if I didn't explain

I'm sorry if I didn't explain this well! The ex called my husband 3 days ago and they talked about their daughter coming to live with her full time. My husband was wary because it was coming from his ex and not his daughter but then he felt like it was real after talking with his daughter. And the schedule you described is actually exactly what my stepdaughter told her dad she wanted but that her mom wouldn't allow her to spend three weekends here only two and no overnights during the week, but two after school visits is okay. So you can understand that my husband was under the impression that mom and daughter had talked it all through and now it was up to him to say okay. So after many talks with his daughter and being responsible enough to meet with a counselor, he said okay. And now the ex is saying no. Thats why this is a mess! My husband wouldn't have just jumped the gun.

The main problem here seems

The main problem here seems to be that they are both communicating through the daughter and when they do communicate directly they don't clarify each others position and just make assumptions. That is why I am saying that they need to talk directly to each other and have an open discussion as to what schedule would suit both of them. The daughter has expressed her views and now it is time for the adults to talk. Once they have come to a firm agreement (whatever it is) then they can communicate it to her. Using the 12 year old as a go between and negotiator must be stressful for her.

I was also trying to let you see how your husband could hand BM a ready made excuse of still recovering from the cancer so that neither parent needs to be thrown under the bus. BM can say to her daughter that she needs some more time to recover fully and that she needs to be able to rest sometimes and that is why she can't have her full time. This way BM doesn't seem like she is going back on her word and SD knows that dad offered to change the schedule.

I get it. That's a smart wayt

I get it. That's a smart wayt o present it to their daughter. And of course communicating through the kid is a bad idea and stressful for the kid. I don't see that happening here. The mom called my husband, told him that their daughter wanted to live with her full time. They talked about it. Then their daughter talked to her dad. Then the dad and mom talked some more. Then the dad and daughter met with counselor and mom talked with counselor over the phone. Then mom changed her mind and says it's somehow dads fault. Then dad is confused and asks to meet with mom and daughter with a mediator to help them figure it out. mom says no mediator.

I'm sorry if I didn't explain

Let it go. If BM decides

Let it go. If BM decides she's changed her mind and wants SD full time with just EOWE visitation for Dad, she can file for it. Your DH is agreeable. If BM doesn't pursue the custody change, that's on her.

Even if there is a residential custody change, Dad needs to keep joint legal custody. Otherwise BM would get sole decision making on medical and educational issues.

I think it's up to BM now to either pursue a change in residential or not to. You'd hate for BM to feel trapped/pressured into pursuing it and than BM letting the little girl down with 1)sending SD over at all times because BM wants a free weekend/evening 2)SD to feel she couldn't come back if things don't work out.

Just because Dad has now decided along with the counselor that more time with BM might be a good thing for SD, doesn't mean now BM has to do this if she's changed her mind. Odds are she didn't really expect Dad to agree to it and/or at least to this easily agree to it. DH can't make BM do anything. It's best now if BM backs out of the change than to change and then become an issue for SD. If BM is 'too busy' with a boyfriend, she's not going to spend much extra time with SD even if SD is there more. There's always the chance BM mentioned/discussed having SD fulltime to the BF and the BF said 'no way'. Sad as it may be, some parents choose boyfriend/girlfriends over their children. It's also possible BM simply decided she likes it the way it is and changed her mind.

No throwing DH under the bus though. If BM has changed her mind and is not pursuing change at this time, all Dad has to say to his daughter if daughter is confused or upset is that when BM feels the time is right BM will file for a change and until then things stay the same.

Yes he will definitely keep

Yes he will definitely keep joint legal custody. My husband thought about that a lot, he doesn't want to send his daughter into a situation where she's not wanted. No way! I think maybe his ex thought she could get the feel good moment of her daughter choosing her over her dad and then when it became real she freaked out. It's very possible that her boyfriend would book if she did it. I think what you said is simple and smart. My husband is very sentitive about not throwing his ex under the bus so he doesn't want to tell his daughter anything that'd make her feel bad like her mom doesn't want her. But maybe he can say just that, that it's up to her mom and things will stay the same for now.

You said BM is willing to

You said BM is willing to meet with both DH and SD? Just not the mediator. Then do that. Everything will come out then, SD will see it for herself. I'm not entirely sure why your DH isn't willing to talk to them without a mediator there?

He will meet with them of

He will meet with them of course he will. He just thought it'd be good to have a mediator there to help.

Maybe this makes me a

Maybe this makes me a terrible person but if I were your DH I would tell the girl "yes, absolutely" she can go live with her mom if that's what she really wants and if she doesn't like it she can always come back home to yall. Your DH called BM on her bluff and now she doesn't want to be the bad guy so she's just going to come up with some way to make this his fault. He should be the very clear before they meet up all together and tell SD that he supports her if this is what she wants then it leaves BM and SD to work the details out whether that means moving in or BM telling her never mind...this puts it all back on BM. SD will start asking her mom when she can move it, or why she has to go back to her dads early this week or miss this weekend here or there with her mom because her mom wants boyfriends time. Let BM figure this out, she caused this dramatic problem and your DH did what he could to solve it in the best way possible so now he needs to let the consequences happen.

My husband is so upset by his

My husband is so upset by his ex I think that idea has crossed his mind. But he doesn't want to put his daughter in the middle and hurt her. He doesn't want his daugther to know that her mom doesn't want her! But figuring out what to do next is tough. Thanks for all the good advice i will share it all with my husband.

Also i think i'mr ealizing

Also i think i'mr ealizing how this site works. I just wrote new info in this post but i guess i need to give the full context every time! some of you think that my husband just moved on this all on his own, which he didn't. his ex called him over the weekend and said she needed to talk to him because their daughter wants to live with her full time. She was on board and wanted him to talk with their daughter and decide if he was willing to do that and how it might work.

Some people don't read all

Some people don't read all the posts or they aren't familiar with the story so many give a little recap of the pertinent info.

didn't read previous comments

didn't read previous comments but yal need to tell this girl the TRUTH. "You can go live with your mom. Arrange it with her & I am ok with changing the schedule."

I know it sounds like PAS but she is throwing HIM under the bus. he would be telling the truth.

I hear that but isn't it not

I hear that but isn't it not good to make the child do all of that to put them in the middle like that? Should the adults take care of things?

But you aren't taking care of

But you aren't taking care of things. The BM is putting SD in the middle by saying it is your fault she can't live there. Your DH needs to let her know that isn't true. or else you are going to have a SD living with you guys hating you.

I know thats what we're

I know thats what we're afraid of! I think my husband is starting to realize that there's no way to rationally figure this out with his ex. He and I just talked and he agrees that he's going to have a candid conversation with his daughter tonight. Just the facts, nothing negative about her mom. But she does need to know what's happening. I think the three of them are going to talk tomorrow. Her mom refused to do it with a counselor, my husband even said she could pick the counselor! He just wants a pro to help guide them but she said no she said "this is between you, me, and my daughter."

This is exactly why kids

This is exactly why kids should not get an opinion on visitation or custody. It is also why that far too often counselors are nothing but highly paid idiots who should not get an opinion other than suggestions for correcting behavior and how to deal with disappointment.

No, BM is not a good mother so you and DH need to quit making excuses for her and quit giving her the "good mother" label. Stick to the facts. Facts are not good or bad, they are just facts. The facts of BM's actions are not throwing her under the bus and yes, SD-12 needs the facts and to have clarity of what the CO says, what her BM is saying and doing, and to be kept abreast of the facts for the duration of the CO.

I completely understand that BM had a cancer battle and that is scary for both BM and SD. However, that is no excuse for BMs manipulations and toxic influence on SD-12 and on the home and family that you and DH are trying to lead. Rather than go live with this unstable woman SD should probably have less contact with her.

So, no quarter, stick to the CO, give BM a choice to do what she is told when she is told to do it or the full weight and pain of the legal, financial, and social consequences of her actions will be brought to bear. Then follow through. In this incident alone BM has injected enough upheaval into SD's life and the lives of you and DH. No doubt this is not the first time, nor will it likely be the last.

Your DH got a call from BM on over the weekend. It is now Wednesday. There has been a therapy session, a decision and announcement made to SD regarding living with her mom, mom flaked out and is throwing DH under the bus and SD has to be freaking. Rather than react emotionally and so rapidly to these manic cycles of BM on a split seconds notice your DH needs to do due diligence to investigate the situation and to always keep in mind his own knowledge and experience with his XW while protecting the best interests of his child. SD needs the facts of the situation and consistency of her calm and sane time with her father and with you far more than she needs to be with her BM regardless if 12yo girls gravitate to their mothers or not.

Rather than react to and focus on the everyone's feelings, the focus needs to be on what is in the best interests of the Skid and on a rational, fact based, calm solution to the issues. The issues in all of this current situation are entirely BM's instability and manipulation regardless of the peripheral drama involved.

IMHO of course.

That's a pretty accurate

That's a pretty accurate summary actually. In hindsight the ex was directing their daughter to tell her dad that she wants to live with her mom. His ex literally told my husband "she wants to live with me, she needs me as her momma right now and i told her to talk with you about it." So he listened to his daughter and then circled back to talk with her mom and a professional to help guide them. I know it's happening fast but his fear is that if it wasn't addressed quickly the ex would make him the bad guy and low and behold it's what she's doing anyway. If he hadn't responded she would have been able to say "oh baby you know i want you to live with me more than anything but daddy won't let you." Then we'd have an angry unhappy kid here every other week. I know what you're saying about not responding emotionally and believe me my husband has been calm and rational with his ex for 7 years. But this was a time when he could not allow his ex to manipulate his daughter in that way. The stakes are too high.

You are here

We moved forward and the ex changed her tune