I think deep down they know, and they go into denial mode. It took my DH being treated poorly directly by his kids a number of times and witnessing a number of skid bad behavior and screw-ups for him to openly admit they were problematic. I think it was really hard for him to admit it to me, as if that were some kind of kid betrayal. 

My husband is quite like this... Regarding his kids behavior. In some ways he's quite blind to it. I can tell from the stories and comments he makes. He thinks his daughter is being fierce when she does things like act sassy or she's being a know it all and he doesn't notice. He tends to blame bio mom for their attitude and behavior... Saying it was their upbringing too... And it would have been different if she hadn't moved away forcing custody... He could have parented them his way... However his parenting was very loose and coddling. He was afraid to ever tell them no or make them do anything. Basically he waited on them hand and foot and allowed them to act up nonstop without putting an end to it. Then when I was in the mix he never shut down their ill mannered behavior toward me. 

I think they know. Deep down somewhere in the dark backrooms of their mind, they know the awful truth about their kids. They won't admit it and they keep this knowledge locked away where they won't have to face it. They put on a brave face and fiercely defend their faults and all the poor behavior... but every once in while the mask slips and you can tell that they know

Hope springs eternal.. and I think parents will very often have huge blind spots when it comes to their kids.. I mean.. they remember the young, innocent babies they were.. and the cute goofy kid etc..  They "made" them.. and admitting they are not perfect is kind of a reflection of themselves.. so they try to see the best in their children.  Step parents don't have that same lens.

I know my husband is pretty good about knowing his kids aren't perfect.. In fact, I'm usually more likely to try to walk him back from the edge of the cliff when his younger daughter might do something he thinks isn't so smart... like go to a concert by herself.. not really bad stuff.. just things he thinks are risky. 

I don't think there is anything we can gain as stepparents by trying to point out.. make them see the light.. on their kid's faults.. all it does is put us in the line of fire.. we can set boundaries when things come to US.. as far as what we will accept as treatment of ourselves.. our finances and our homes.. but if the kid is young and lazy.. (which honestly.. I see more of now than when I was that age unfortunately).. sometimes we just have to wait and let life teach them those lessons.. at a certain point.. it's more effective .. and painful at times.. than what our "stupid" parents tell us..haha.

They know they destroyed the family.  This is a result of the failed marriage.   They only see the kids EOWE and don't want to turn this into a war. They Knowing they  are  going to lose in the end. [ kids will not come over]

DH knows his kids are weird and take things for granted. However don't date mention entitled, spoiled, lazy, liar, etc. Because that's just too far.

He also "doesn't understand how they are this way" and says nothing when I mention I tried, I suggested things to him and more when they were younger but I certainly didn't know what I was talking about did I?  i wonder where the blame rests DH, surely not with the parents....then he usually goes on to blame BM.

He even told me recently if he could do it again he would do anything for them, give them more of what they wanted so they'd talk with him. I said you think that would actually work? You know I would not have stayed, I would have left you.

Yeah, so his counseling must be going really well.

For years I thought DH didn't see a damn thing. DH always defended his precious poopsie mini-wife. Three years ago, I almost walked. DH got himself into therapy and us into marital therapy and in our first marital therapy session I was able to discuss my conditions for not leaving. My number one was that DH MUST start admitting to how SD really is and how the way she is has impacted our marriage and how DH allowed that to happen. Over more sessions it turns out that DH knew how SD was and how much I hated her. He figured if he totally downplayed anything she did he would make her seem not so bad to me and I wouldn't hate her even more for things she did and how she was. I had to spell out to DH how that only backfired because I was walking around with constant seething resentment over the things she's done, some illegal and some unforgiveable and yet he acted like she was so great and superior to everyone else in the world. So, yes, these dads know.

But throws his hands up "what can I do about it!"

We had that talk yesterday. He wanted to throw something in my face about SD18 Princess Powersulk Do Nada.

I just told him "I want her to get off her a$$ and get the heck out of her room and make something of herself! STart driving! Get a JOB" 

He had nothing to say, except "I know I do too".

When I met DH, my own two daughters were attending, or about to attend, University, and his daughters were 5 and 7.  Every so often, I would offer a bit of parenting advice, gently, but this just made him angry, so I stopped.  He and BM parented his daughters like they were their friends, not parents, it was excruciating to watch.  Now the results of that are coming home to roost, they are in their late 20s, and neither of them can maintain a relationship.  I think DH knows they weren't brought up very well, but has trouble admitting to himself. 

I know when the Sk's start getting worse instead of better after 18, DH starts to realize he messed up. My DH is going through this and is actually changing his behavior because he sees that the SD that he "protected" the most ( his favorite) is the one that is the most messed up. He is treating them now as adults, but they don't like this at all. They want the old Daddee back.

Its a constant push and pull tug o war between them and DH. He won't budge, and the ones that want to talk to him are adjusting, but the ones that need to be the victim or believe BM's lies, those are the ones that are refusing to speak to him. He can only hope they will come around in a few years, but he knows its too late now. Its very sad, but also necessary for them to have a healthy relationship.

They know.

I think it depends on what we mean by "know". It's really interesting to me when dh talks about SS to friends and certain members of his family because he'll reveal his true feelings about SS in ways that he doesn't share with me. I think Evil4 has it right that dh probably doesn't want to own up to all of the bad stuff about SS to me so that he doesn't feed into my negativity.

He's told friends that SS is a liar, lazy, and is terrible in school. So dh can acknowledge and describe behaviors that SS does that are problematic, but I still think he's in denial about SS maybe due to hope or the "blind spots" ESMOD mentioned. For dh, bad behaviors are only temporary, and SS wil grow out of it when he becomes more mature. Other variations of this idea: Kids make mistakes and learn from them, you can be imperfect and still be loved, circumstances caused him to make bad choices but he'll grow from them. When SS does get caught doing something wrong, SS is really good at saying the right things that convince dh that SS was the victim and now he knows better, and has learned his lesson. Forget that the lesson has to be repeated multiple times. Dh chalks it up to SS being a slow learner. Rinse, repeat.

I think this is called 'future faking'. I read that narcissists are good at getting everything they want now by making vague promises in the future that they don't truly intend to keep. I wonder if and when dh will hold SS accountable for his actions now instead of holding him to the future, ideal version that never seems to show up.

What is sad is that no matter how much these coddling willfully blind parents polish the turd that their spawn is, that spawn is still shit.  Shiny in the minds of the willfully delusional parent, but shit none the less, shit in reality, and invariably, shit in life.

SS18 is a lying liar and DH just admitted that he is but then said "well, I'm not making excuses but I think he does it to please people which is why he's gotten where he is". Sounds like excusing it to me DH. Then I said I think he should be called out on it more and he said "It's too late to do anything about it now", which is exactly what a parent who just wants his son to like him and doesn't want to actually have that conversation with him would say. 

He knows. Absolutely he knows his spawn are a holes and douche bags. This is why when they started with the character assasination and the alienation, he decided to pick me and stick with me 100%. He doesn't call them or send gifts or nothing. He has completely detached from that vermin. I wish it would have been different but those kids (well, two adults and an older teen) were raised by the most bitter biological mother and they inherited her evil. So, they cannot discern who is good and who is bad like normal people. Whoever is bitter, a thief and a liar falls into good. If you are kind and caring but want peace and order then you are bad. If you fell in love with their father and you and he are happy and thriving, then you are the devil incarnate. At least my husband see what they have done and what they do. Good riddance to those a holes and their disgusting, bitter, rancorous, resentful, nefarious, vile, base, corrupt, vicious, depraved, iniquitous beast of a mother.

i asked him out right when he realised this, 13 years old was his answer, he didnt admit it until she was 40. he said it was when he went to a parents evening and when asked what she want to do with her life she said - have children so she would never have to work.