n00b
Hi, all. New guy here. Looks like a great forum.
As a soon-to-be stepdad, I'm bringing experience from being a teen stepkid, and trying to:
1) Don't screw it up.
2) Do things right.
Ha, SO much easier to say than it is to do.
I see that stepdads are expected to be more like grandparents, in that we are expected to always be there for all the events, always cheer the step kids on (especially if the chips are down), and never correct the step kids so we don't hurt their feelings.
I see that divorced parents tend to feel guilty about the pain and suffering inflicted upon the kids, so we all tend to protect them a little more (outsiders might say coddle). I've been firm with mine (18, lives with his permissive-parenting mom), although in this day and age of entitled kids, it has had to involve a LOT of tough love, which my fiancé is very supportive with. It sucks to be "the heavy" when your own kid isn't "getting it."
I am also thinking that my fiancé is a bit of a Disneyland Mom with her kids and all of their friends, which is a striking contrast with the tough love she (rightfully) sees my son needs. So she knows the difference between wants and needs, but is selective in how she applies that (which is common - let's say, "typical, but not normal.").
Part of me thinks I need to get us all to counseling so I won't come across as the evil ogre when I point out something her son does that is not (in my mind) appropriate, but when I mentioned that, she indicated that I needed it, not her.
So I'm wondering if we'll survive as a couple. She's awesome, I'm awesome, we both have a lot going for us, and everything was great till that natural predisposition to fool yourself into thinking your own Fruit Of The Loins is perfect in every way because of our own super parenting skills, but then we all nitpick over the others.
Maybe I just need to take some happy pills till the kids are all gone.
The golden rule - Except
The golden rule -
Except that you have different parenting styles,
You are in the relationship because of her - not her brats
Disengage from her children, and she should disengage from your,
Children should respect all adults in the house
keep finance separate and each adult is responsible for their own children regarding everything. each adult contributes accordingly to the house hold expenses
The end..
http://www.steptogether.org/disengaging.html
Thanks! I had been dealing
Thanks! I had been dealing with soon to be SS by being involved, but as he was rejecting my kindness (I was a threat to his ego, so he sorta WANTED to dislike me) and resenting my discipline (I was never physical) for things he was doing (for instance, he'd wait till fiancé left the room and he'd try to show off for me by running full speed into the armrest of his mom's couch like it was a football blocking dummy, and I'd say, "(Name Withheld), what are you doing?" He'd slump his shoulders forward and pout his lips out and hang his head till his mom came back into the room, and he'd whisper that I was being mean). After enough friction from stuff like this, I was reading one of Henry Cloud's books on Boundaries, and a lovely Biblical passage came out, that basically said (in the context of the book) that correcting someone who doesn't want to be corrected merely makes them hate you - so, to prevent the introduction of hate, just let them learn it the hard way.
"Life is tough. It's even tougher if you're stupid."
--John Wayne in The Sands of Iwo Jima
They had problems like this thousands of years ago, too, so this is nothing new.
Please understand, fiancé is wonderful, but she sometimes WON'T SEE my concerns (as in, is in denial) because she thinks I'm always being "The Heavy," that I'm too much like her own dad. I think she hears me and thinks I'm being a hard-axx no matter what her kid is doing. Disciplining them became counterproductive for her and I; if I disciplined them (at all, for anything), I was being a "jack-booted thug" - but if I didn't, the kids would learn their own valuable lessons. That seemed to be her parenting style, so I'd adopt the "Stepper" version of a permissive parent.
So I began disengaging about 4 or 5 months ago. It's unnatural and takes some getting used to INTENTIONALLY ignoring them when they're being bratty, but it pays off because fiancé finally gets so fed up with the brattiness that she finally goes off on them (much harder than I was doing, though at a much later point).
The other day, fiancé said, "It looks like you and (Name Withheld) are getting along a lot better!"
I said, "Yeah, I took a new approach!"
"Really? What's different?"
"I just ignore what he's doing and don't correct him unless he's doing something that affects me directly. So, when he had his friends over a few weeks back, and they were throwing the football around by the pool, shoving one another, and basically doing what unwatched boys do, I thought, 'I didn't invite these other kids over, so it's not my problem if someone falls on the exposed aggregate and gets a nasty cut!' and *just then* one of them was running backward and fell right into the hot tub section and almost cracked his skull on the edge of the pool. Could have been REALY bad, but it wasn't, so I didn't say a word to them. After all, we have homeowner's insurance in case someone gets hurt..."
She turned kinda pale and didn't really have much to say, but she needed to know that I wasn't going to correct her kids anymore, and that I'm WELL AWARE of the repercussions of some of their actions (which is why I was trying to teach them, but they resent being told what to do). It's all up to her unless she wants me to become involved again.
Funny, now she's hinting that she wants me to be more involved, although I find it curious that she said that she can't discipline other kids at our house unless they're doing something dangerous where someone can get hurt. If the kid makes a mess in the kitchen, dumps something over, breaks something while running through the house - "They aren't MY kid. I can't correct them." I said, "What?? They have an obligation to follow our house rules. If I see someone damaging something or one of (Name Withheld)'s friends being a peeping Tom on (Name Withheld)'s sister, I'm going to say something. That stuff DOES affect me, because I'll have to fix it. But if one of those kids or their friends makes a mess of one of those kids' bedrooms or breaks or steals some of their stuff, that responsibility is all on whomever was the host."
It was burning me out, now it's different... now they're having sleepovers almost every weekend, which (to me) is EXCESSIVE. 2-3 extra kids in the house, and *maybe* they'll run it by me. "So and so and his brother want to spend the night Saturday. Will that be a problem?" is asked about 2/3 of the time.
stop the sleep overs, it's
stop the sleep overs, it's your house as well... and you do have a say.
Simply tell DW - either this stops or I'm moving out, I'm not here to financially support a hostel.
you can always do what I did lol - I moved out, been living separately now for 4 years and it's wonderful. SO still hates my disengagement but I do not care, either he ships up or I ship out, it's much better now lol...
The sleep overs was hectic after the first year I moved out, now it's not happening cause SO had to clean all on his own after 4-6 teen girls, and they took his bathroom as well, then I will visit and there's some flowers on the floor, I simply turn around and say - not sharing a bathroom with your girl friends... that stopped just recently...
I still visit 4 out of 7 nights a week, but I never sleep over anymore cause I refuse to share room with other woman.
but disengagement really works ... SO complains I should help more, I simply laugh and say, why should I do dishes, I'm not even living in this house - he did not get that so now I say - if your brat does not have to do dishes and she's living here, I am not doing dishes cause I'm not even living here... I only do dishes when I cooked there and only mine and his... rest I ignore. SO knows I'm a clean freak and will never sleep over unless his house is tidy
"Simply tell DW - either this
"Simply tell DW - either this stops or I'm moving out, I'm not here to financially support a hostel."
LOL, well, that's what's been on my mind. I told her I feel like the maintenance man at a resort, watching all these kids running amok while she plays janitor cleaning up after them and I'm fixing all the stuff they break.
My job is something where I travel occasionally, so I will probably start ramping that up soon. There are some definite needs that are coming up for travel, so she'll be flying solo for a while. It'll be great for me, as I'll just go online and pay the mortgage, but I won't have to worry about buying some groceries and then a few days later looking for something I just bought and she says, "Oh, by the way, the boys LOVED that stuff!" Ha, well, that means her son and his buddies discovered something I bought for the family to enjoy over a period of time, not just her son and his buddies to wolf down in one sitting. I think the only way for her to understand what I'm trying to tell her is if she feels the full brunt of the expense, and when she feels the weight of the expense and sees them wasting a bunch of it, too - she'll know it firsthand.
and never correct the step
and never correct the step kids so we don't hurt their feelings. <--- that is rubbish. My husband has equal sayy and authority in my home. My child does not need a friend, she needs a firm role model.
I didn't get overly involved
I didn't get overly involved in directly disciplining my 2 SD's. However, I felt perfectly comfortable in telling them to clean up a mess they made in my home, telling them to make their bed and asking for peace and quiet.
Now, punishment for poor behavior/actions? Daddy did that.
I also 100% expected my DH to back me up when I asked the girls to do something...and he did.
I figure fiancé will one day
I figure fiancé will one day get tired of cleaning up the chocolate ice cream cup lids off the kitchen floor and decide that this many sleepovers is, as I said, EXCESSIVE. When they're in brat mode, I don't clean up after the kids. When they're good, I'm right there with them. I think they're ALL learning that life gets easier when the kids show some responsibility.
To be honest, I pretty much
To be honest, I pretty much put my foot down about sleepovers.
I can only remember a handful of them that we hosted or allowed the girls to go do on my DH's time.
My motto: "everyone sleeps in their own bed".
We have a home on a small island and when we would go to visit, the younger especially wanted to sleep over. However, I didn't want to have to reciprocate and TBH, was not 100% sure of the safety of the girls at certain homes. (especially after going to collect up YSD when she was about 9 from a girl's house mid-day and she had wet hair. She and the other girl had just taken a bath... mid-day. SD had bathed that morning at our home. I advised she was not to go in that home and no taking showers at other people's house..lol).
We did allow them once they were old enough to be civilized and their friends were old enough to not get homesick to bring a friend on vacation with us. I believe that was at maybe 15 yo plus.
My YSD also developed epilepsy as a young teen and she needed her sleep. Sleepovers were not a good idea for her. She in fact did have a seizure at a sleepover her mother let her go to once. It was also easier because my DH was NCP so he could make them spend his time with HIM.
"To be honest, I pretty much
"To be honest, I pretty much put my foot down about sleepovers."
Yeah, I'm having to do that, though fiancé said, "But when it's a sleepover, the kids are busy with their friends, and you and I get one-on-one time."
Say what?? I'll have to call BS on that... Kids running through the house, banging into the walls and doors, throwing balls in the house, stuff getting knocked over - it's not one-on-one because there are WAY too many distractions. Certainly, we get NO intimate time with all those kids over, which is a problem in and of itself.
When I buy groceries for the 4 of us, and then all of a sudden 2-3 more people come over, HUNGRY, and eat their late lunch, dinner, the next day they have breakfast and lunch - and she sends them off with snacks (a couple kids are so poor that she takes our groceries over there), I'm just going to stop buying groceries. For them, it's like coming to a resort where they're all waited on hand-and-foot LOL... No wonder they all want to come over! Grrrrrr...
Another issue is that if your
Another issue is that if your wife isn't comfortable with her kids going over to their place.. it's not reciprocal. We explained that since we weren't going to host.. they didn't need to guest.
We went to the island to RELAX... drink a few beers... steam crabs. We didn't go over there to babysit other people's children. LOL.
Well... BioDad doesn't want
Well... BioDad doesn't want his son going to these kids' place. TBH, fiancé says she feels "SO SORRY for these kids," and I think she so wants them to have a decent childhood that she'll play surrogate mom (of sorts) to them. They get rambunctious and start tearing up the house, and fiancé doesn't stop them until after there's some damage... but she actually invites them back again. I'd NEVER allow any kid into my house if he kept breaking (or taking) things. There's a lot more they do, too... But fiancé will send her son to these kids' dad's slummy scummy apartment and trust her son to do as she told him to do, though in my opinion, she's inviting trouble by placing her trust in her kid who doesn't know better, as he hangs out in a place that's not particularly good. I'm not judging anyone economically, but that apartment complex is a rat-hole, and there are some unsavory characters living there. Telling her kid to "stay inside when the sun goes down - or 9:00 or whatever" isn't enough, IMO.
I agree that kids need to have some "no-break" rules (as in, when I was growing up, we knew the difference between a RULE and a GUIDELINE - these days, kids treat rules as guidelines, and guidelines as notes), and make sure the repercussions are known and meted out. Failure to do so will result in entitled adults. I'm a firm believer that kids shouldn't be treated as "kids," but as "adults in training." Not to say all work and no play (quite the opposite, as they need to know there's a BALANCE), but they need to learn some responsibility. If they want a cat, they need to be part of the effort to care for it, right?
Bottom line, I don't like a few of this kid's friends or the effect they have on him. BioDad says the same basic thing, though he says it differently (in a snooty way). SKid has a couple of friends who I think are GREAT, but they don't get together that often. I want to tell fiancé it's time her son stepped out of the "kiddie pool" and maybe find a batch of more stable and respectful friends in the neighborhood (their friends are currently all several miles away and fiancé does almost every bit of the driving, which I also find a drain).
I understand how it can be a
I understand how it can be a very delicate situation. On the one hand, you don't want to outright forbid a child from associating with someone who may be different (socio-economic class, race.. whatever). However, the people we surround ourselves with have an impact on how we develop as people and also have a bearing on how we are perceived by others.
The kids should be encouraged to hang out with people that make them better people. That means socializing with people that are interested in learning, growing and being productive members of society. If the friends are interested in doing well in school and learning new things and being good people, then that's fine. However, if the kids are just following along in their parent's low achievement lifestyle goals.. that is NOT the kind of person that the kids should hang out with after school.
If your fiance's kids can't make their friends learn your house rules (breaking and stealing are no-no's) then they shouldn't be welcome in the home. The kids should understand that when their friends act that way that it is disrespectful to the adults that finance the house and it is also disrespectful to the kids who are being ignored by their friends.
I mean, it's one thing when kids are super young and they accidentally spill a glass of juice in the kitchen. It is entirely a different thing when they are jumping on the antique sofa that everyone knows is off limits and break it.
As well meaning as your Fiance is, she unfortunately cannot be a substitute for their bad home life. In addition, there is no way I would allow kids to to to a home where I had doubts that the parents were able to properly supervise and that there were serious dangers in the neighborhood (crime/drugs/gang activity).
While we all think/hope that our "good" kids will end up raising the standard for the other children, in reality, it is quite often the opposite that happens. I have a nephew (by marriage) who is currently in jail and facing a long prison sentence for drugs/assault of a law enforcement officer and has a rap sheet as long as your arm. He isn't even 25 years old. It all started with his underachieving friends who turned from small time hooliganism to major drug use and criminal activity. This kid who is whip smart and had a whole family of supportive adults behind him didn't rise like cream, he sank like a stone.
Excellent post, thanks. When
Excellent post, thanks.
When a friend of her son's come over, he took a handful of Jelly Belly jellybeans and was on the back patio, sifting through them and saw a color he might not like, and he weeded it out and threw it into the garage on the floor. I told her about it, said it's stuff he does like that, that I can't stand about that kid. I watched him spit on the floor in the house before as well. These were not accidents. This same kid had a plastic cup full of Coke in her son's bedroom, and while they were playing video games, he got excited and kicked it over. Accident, though it was carelessness. Whenever I get off work and see him there, I feel the tension building... I'm sure this kid will end up doing pretty poorly in life, and I'd just as soon she'd stop fanning the friendship flames and just let him drift away.
She truly means well, has a soft spot for the underdogs - so do I. But I've had to learn that underdogs are sometimes actually lowlifes, and all the kindness you gave them was kindness I should have applied to truly worthy people. As I see it, any kid who comes into my house and is antisocial doesn't qualify as a recipient of my kindness and effort.
I'm also feeling like any woman who continues to enable these kids to do this stuff against my wishes, doesn't have my best interests in mind.
For the record... That's how
For the record... That's how I think it ought to be. I can say that to fiancé all week long, but she's going to have to learn it for herself.
“Simon is my right-hand man. It’s important to have one. Without ’em what do you have? A whole lot of work.”
--"Coach" Negan
Sometimes, just coming to a
Sometimes, just coming to a place like this and getting a reality check among strangers is best. Nobody here has a reason to sugar-coat the truth, and you're all from outside of my circle, which means there's a degree of anonymity. Thank you for your response!
First of all, how wonderful!
First of all, how wonderful! Best of luck to you.
Every now and then someone comes on this site who used to be a SK and is now in the position of being a step-parent and wondering how they can make it work. Usually, they didn't particularly like their step-parent, and want to know how to avoid being "the heavy."
In reality, no matter how much advice you soak up, whether here or from so-called professionals, there is very little way to assure you will be a winning step-parent with the SKs. There are just too many dynamics going on that you have no control over--many that a lot of people don't even think of: How society in general views step-parenting, the other bio-parent plays a HUGE role, even genetics--does the SK have the easily-adaptable gene. And, so on.
I think of all of the years step-parents were told to just be nice, etc. AND THEN, all of a sudden there is advice out there that the nicer you are, the more the SKs may actually resent you! Reality is, unless you and your partner are a true team, your partner's ex- has no problem with you being in his/her children's lives, and the kid is easily adaptable, you will have a difficult time of it.
I remember I told one woman that support was needed from BM in order for a SM/SK relationship to work out, and she answered me back that for most people that would never happen in a million years--getting "support" from BM. She may be right?
You were once a SK and now the shoe is on the other foot. It will not be anywhere near as easy to get these SKs on your side as you maybe thought it was when you were a SK yourself. I hate to say it, but pretty much everyone I've heard from on this site who was now a step-parent and was a SK themselves at one time, still thinks their step-parent really, really sucked. And, in some cases they did. BUT, it never seems to occur to some of them that maybe, just maybe they were unfairly judging their step-parent in the exact same way as they are being unfairly judged now.
Don't overthink this. Sayings such as "act like a Grandpa and you'll be okay" and "act like an auntie" are basically assinine. It is not that simple. And, you will need to discipline your SKs at some point. They are in your home and to be following your and your partner's rules. They will not respect you otherwise.
Thank you! BioDad lives
Thank you!
BioDad lives close-by, is a doofus. One thing I have to say is: he and I agree the kids have too many sleepovers. If it was up to him, there'd be NONE, and no hanging around kids who come from "the other side of town." I think a sleepover every month or two should be sufficient - and only with really special friends, not "mon ami dujour." But without a doubt, BioDad is one of those who sits there on his smart phone for hours on end, ignoring everyone around him. He stays in shape and works out, but does it at one of the big fitness places and prefers to send his kids to do something wherever he's not. He's pretty distant compared to most dads, and I don't think he has the emotional capacity to engage with most people. I see why he's the ex, but I'm also seeing why he might not have been real happy with her.
My SMom was 2-faced back then. She would be overly charming and sweet when my dad was in the room, but once he walked out - ICE QUEEN. I got the message and joined the military after High School. We get along fine now, but I wanted to not be such a distant figure with my SKids... now I see why, when I know my SMom didn't want my dad disciplining her kids, and she wanted my brother and I out of the picture - it seems it's a coping mechanism some SParents do, to "not touch the merchandise." So I see, that was sort of like her disengaging, because she wanted my dad to disengage, I suppose. Not to mention, I was a bit of a PITA, though not trouble, so that might have something to do with it, too.
It sounds to me that you and
It sounds to me that you and your SO have a pretty good foundation to start.
I am not sure counseling is critical. What I suggest is critical is that you and your SO (fiancé)reach a very quick agreement that as equity life partners your relationship and each other are the priority over all else. As equity life partners you are also equity parents to any children in your home regardless of kid biology.
The kids the top marital responsibility but the relationship/each other is the unequivocal priority for both of you.
If you can reach clarity on this together and navigate the blended family process together you should be fine and so should all of the kids.
IMHO or course.
Good luck.
Agree, we need to get to an
Agree, we need to get to an agreement on some reasonable boundaries! She's hesitant, so I'm letting her feel the pressure of some of her permissive parenting decisions.
Yes. You and DW together
Yes. You and DW together establishing reasonable standards of kid behavior in your blended family will go a long way to minimizing the usual kid behavioral blended family drama.
I remember as a SKid, I tried
I remember as a SKid, I tried to impress/show my worth, and it was awkward. A modern-day equivalent would be like getting a new boss at work, and you feel an urge for some reason to kick it up a notch. Of course, if you're confident, it won't be a problem - but for kids, it's impossible to have that kind of confidence.
Being on this side of the wall now, I know there's an equal desire to try to earn some respect from kids who see the SParent as someone who's taking the BioParent out to eat and to movies, and the SKids aren't automatically coming along. "I wanna see a movie, too... We NEVER get to do that anymore!" or (after fiancé's daughter had been on a sleepover at another friend's house, and her son had a friend over our place for sleepover) SDaughter says, "Mommy, I want you to take me to a movie. You two ALWAYS get time together." Srsly? She went on a sleepover at someone else's house and complained as soon as she arrived, that her mom wasn't spending enough 1-on-1 time with her LOLOL... Kids, right?
A few months back, my fiancé and I hadn't had some 1-on-1 time in a while, and after I went with my folks to a memory-care specialist (yes, they're old), fiancé and I were going to go to a nice Italian dinner at this place to discuss my folks's issues, just the 2 of us (I wanted to relax and unwind a little, as it's not easy watching the folks struggle). In the time it took me to drive home, her son pouted enough about how his dad excludes him and whatever else, and instead of him going to his dad's house as scheduled (it was fiancé's ex's week with the kids, but somehow this kid would rather be at our place instead of his dad's, so he whips up some sob stories), he was the third wheel at the restaurant. He was doing everything in his power to own all of her attention, from agreeing with everything she was saying to being all lovey - to acting out like a toddler (he was TWELVE at the time) and laying down in the booth side he got all to himself while I had to sit on the edge of the seat. I didn't get to unwind and discuss anything with her. That experience thoroughly pissed me off, and I've promised myself that if that starts shaping up again, I'll decline and tell her to take her son out to have that nice romantic 1-on-1 dinner, just the two of them.
I guess the thing that helped
I guess the thing that helped me most was to try to at least have some empathy for my DH's children.
It isn't 100% easy when your parents are split up and you have to live out of a bag half the time. Visitation impinges on your social life and other activities (work/sports). You end up being between your parents and can be treated like a pawn, an arbitrator or blamed for everything. You get saddled with a new step parent or two that you didn't ask for and may not like or may not like that you even exist.
That being said, I would speculate that in more than 75% of the situations on here it is a bio parent that has created the problem by not parenting their child. Children are put on pedestals as special snowflakes by the bio parents. They are given too much of a free pass by Disney parents. They don't get consistent discipline. Their parents tolerate disrespect towards themselves and their partners. Yet, most of the step parents come on here and complain about how horrid their stepchildren are and don't lay much blame on their partners for the root of the issue. Then you have bio parents defending every bit of the shenanigans that their children perpetrate.
The bottom line is that all kids are perfectly imperfect. They all will have their good and bad moments. There will be lies and other stumbles along the way. Some kids will go totally south to a point where they can't be retrieved... but most will move on out and live their lives. It's hard for a non-bio parent to take this turbulence when they aren't the "real" parents. They don't have the unconditional love/biological bond thing going on.
I tried to not take things personally that weren't meant that way. My SD's behavior wasn't tailor made to hurt my feelings though that might have been the result at times. If everyone tries to give people a bit of the benefit of the doubt and if bio parents will PARENT and accept that their child is not perfect, it can work.
I always find this phenomena
I always find this phenomena interesting too--that the ones who seem to most likely suffer from a divorce are the children and those the divorcees go on to marry (SM or step-dad and step-kids). Unfortunately, usually they wind up going after each other, when in reality, the bio-parents of the SKs/ DH and DW are the ones more likely to blame. But, the adult bios seem to come out smelling like a rose every time.
Excellent points. Nobody
Excellent points.
Nobody could find someone who would be more empathetic (than me) toward the stuff these kids can't control.
As for the stuff the kids CAN control, I'm very concerned that fiancé doesn't hold them accountable for their actions - and I've learned that being the "Dutch Uncle" doesn't go over well LOL...
Just saying... if they don't like my lesson plans, there are hundreds of ways to learn for themselves why we don't take the cat to the beach - after all, if you try to take the cat swimming, they'll claw you something fierce; and then they'll only make a mess of the sand... Some folks don't want to hear the truth and will have to learn it firsthand.