Affording a lawyer.....
How do one decide if a lawyer is affordable? If CS stretches you to the absolute max...to the point that you can't afford anything else..then how the heck you supposed to get a lawyer?
But on the flip side...how can you NOT get one?
This is the issue. BM says if we can afford a lawyer to go to court to fight what she is asking for...we can pay what she wants...
Any suggestion to an appropriate response to that?
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i second this! My Coworker
i second this! My Coworker had a BM who loved to take him back to court all the time for more and more and more money and her lawyer would just rack up all kinds of charges and the judge saw through her and made her pay both lawyers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! For meritless trips to court!
This is a problem that we
This is a problem that we deal with, as well, and unfortunately I don't have a good answer. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing.
I will say that DH has decided to handle CS himself. They are discreet issues that are driven by mathematical formulas, and inasmuch, are easy enough for him to represent himself.
Everything else is another issue. I'm a helluva paralegal after several years of this BS and do as much of the prep work as I can for our lawyer.
I feel ike this is some kind
I feel ike this is some kind of mind trick she is trying to play.
1. You owe her no explanations.
2. Everyone is entitled to fair representation. Not hiring a lawyer is setting yourself up to not have proper legal counsel.
Anyone have any experience on
Anyone have any experience on how a judge would look at this?
Your husband not having a
Your husband not having a lawyer or BM saying these things to him?
BM raising the issue of
BM raising the issue of affording a lawyer and not the CS she is asking for
Most judges were lawyers
Most judges were lawyers once. They understand that lawyers need to be paid and probably prefer dealing with an experienced lawyer than someone struggling to represent themselves. I doubt they would listen to BM spouting off about you guys paying a lawyer.
THIS! In NYS it is SHEER
THIS! In NYS it is SHEER FOLLY for a NCP biodad to represent himself. Getting a lawyer makes losing a bit more easily stomached.
Great if you can make her pay for your legal expenses if she is launching frivolous requests for more and more CS.
We know the numbers the
We know the numbers the formula spits out. But there are extenuating circumstances that may affect the CS amount. Hence the need for a lawyer.
But the question is will the
But the question is will the judge expect DH to justify how he can afford a lawyer when he wants the CS amount modified?
Yep this is just BM trying to
Yep this is just BM trying to play her BM hand.
Get.an.attorney. ESPECIALLY if your DH is "rough around the edges" like blue collar Chef.
Scrape up for the retainer and if need be, better to owe your attorney than years and years of extra $$ going to the BM.
what are these "extenuating"
what are these "extenuating" circumstances and, more importantly, who thinks they are "extenuating?"
I am more curious as to
I am more curious as to whether it's BM telling OP and her DH that they have to pay for stuff...
You and I both know that in reality, there are very few circumstances that aren't accounted for in the CS formulas
I am sure that's in there
I am sure that's in there
Along with other "extenuating" circumstances like must pay for car, must pay for college. BARF!!
It's not custody time. It's
It's not custody time. It's debt settlements and such from their divorce.
I don't think those will be
I don't think those will be of any importance and certainly has no bearing on support going forward.
If your DH made a bad deal in his settlement, there isn't a way to go back and modify that.
I am curious about your attorney saying to go to mediation or to settle out of court. That sounds like he doesn't have a lot of faith that your circumstances would be extenuating.
I think your husband made a bad deal with the BM and gave away a lot of things he should not have and now he wishes he hadn't.
At least here in the States, child support doesn't work that way.
It's not that he wishes he
It's not that he wishes he hadn't gave away things....he still does not want those things.
Only that the CS stay the same as it is now until the debt loan is paid off.
Mediation is supposed to be the first step in coming to an agreement in our law system. The court expects parents to utilize the family justice service that provides mediation before taking the steps to have a case go to court.
and what exactly is this
and what exactly is this family debt loan you keep referencing?
It's not something we have here in the states, so I am having a hard time understanding what it is, how your DH got stuck with it and how it matters in a support review....
Hell no! If Chef ever got
Hell no! If Chef ever got custody of his now thoroughly spoiled ferals, I would INSIST that the Girhippo pay the CS due (plus all those copays we paid FOR her when she simply refused)
Relates to DH and BM's
Relates to DH and BM's divorce and their prior agreement. Free consultation with lawyer agreed that we have a case of "extenuating" circumstances that may work in our favor. But were encouraged to go the mediator route and try to settle out of court if possible.
Doesn't seem possible.
okay then, don't tell us. We
okay then, don't tell us.
We can't help you if we don't know the extenuating circumstance.
*shrugs*
Just didn't want to cloud the
Just didn't want to cloud the issue regarding cost of lawyer....but here goes (copied from previous blog).
DH didn't cover himself very well in the divorce. He was all about what was best for the kids and splitting as amicably as possible. BM makes more money..67% BM 33% DH income split. (updated from previous blog as we now have her updated information)
He signed away
1. Alimony payments (Her low payment was 700 to a high of 1400 for half of their marriage so ten years). CS was to be set less than her alimony payment as per guidelines.
2. NO Pension splits (hers was more than double his)
3. NO equalization payment (calculated to be over $50,000 from HER to him)
4. HE took a consolidation loan of $40,000 that covered credit card debts and other misc owing so she could refinance their marital home in her name only. THIS IS THE EXTENUATING CIRCUMSTANCES.
5. Agreement at the time only stated that due to him taking high family debt there would no formalized child support but he would help as he could. Stated nothing about WHY he gave up rights to all of the other things...BIG OMISSION.
Even though agreement states no formalized CS DH paid 30% for both on a monthly basis. Then once SD20 aged out at 19 it was 55% for SD15, plus helping with band trips etc as he was able. He paid 50% of SD20s first kick at post secondary. Plus spending money and supplies when he could. I have helped with all of this thus far. By joining our incomes we were managing.
NOW BM is asking for full CS for both kids..plus extras.
We want things to stay as is (CS at 55% for SD15) until the family debt consolidation loan is paid in 2018. He will agree to pay for income portion of SD20s post secondary. But SD20 should use her income (she is working while going to school) to pay for her living expenses.
AFTER the loan is paid in 2018 he will gladly pay as per federal guidelines. Note: We live in Canada where post secondary of a majority aged child is considered a special expense to be paid.
But that's the point...there
But that's the point...there is no change in circumstances. Actually BM did have a change..SD20 worked for a full year living at home. And we are paying CS even though it's not stated in the prior agreement. We do not want want to change anything...only to remain the same ....until the debt loan DH took on when they divorced is paid off in 2018.
Just a side note..SD20 has a
Just a side note..SD20 has a student loan to over her college expenses. BM still wants DH to pay
I thought she did in another
I thought she did in another blog.
Canadian CS is a chart based on your income. Then there are section 7 expenses, sports, dance, those types of extras. They are split by %, so the higher earning parent pays more, it doesn't matter who the kids live with.
We are also responsible for post secondary, it falls under section 7
OPs DH can not afford the extras or post secondary. BM thinks he should pay anyway.
You can petition the courts to pay less CS and section 7 costs if your standard of living is significantly lower than the parent who is getting the CS. When you do this you have to show the entire households income, so the OPs income would be part of the equation.
In OPs case, her DH took on a large marital debt when he and BM split. BM doesn't want that debt repayment to figure into his ability to pay CS. If you just look at income he should be able to afford it, add in the debt payment and he can't.
I hope I got that right, mine?
Yip.
Yip.
It sounds like your BM used
It sounds like your BM used guilt to get what she wanted at the divorce. Now, she's using guilt and intimidation.
Not having an attorney puts DH at a disadvantage. You cannot afford to NOT to have one.
I can't see a judge holding
I can't see a judge holding it against DH that he retains an attorney. Judge's prefer to deal with an attorney versus an in pro person acting on their own behalf. Attorneys have specific education in the law and experience which makes it easier for the judge. They are also not emotionally invested in the case. If there is ever a doubt hire an attorney, you will recoup the money later in the savings of Tylenol.
Does BM have a lawyer? This
Does BM have a lawyer?
This same argument can be used against her. She must be getting too much CS if she can afford a lawyer.
I think she is playing mind games and her argument is very weak. She is trying to bully DH into doing what she wants.
I don't think a judge will listen to her at all. Having a lawyer to protect yourself and your interests is not a way of evading CS.
Now, her family and friends . . . that's a different kettle of fish, they will jump on her bandwagon and berate DH for spending money on a lawyer instead of his children.
Edit to add:
I just looked at your other blog, the mediator recommends that you get a lawyer and go to court. Put BM on ignore, get a lawyer and have DH protect himself.
Dh has gotten a lawyer.
Dh has gotten a lawyer. Appointment is set for tomorrow afternoon. When have sent the lawyer all the information and requested that she adjust DH's agreement proposal to what she would be willing to take to court. Because that is where this is headed.
DH has asked me to go with him. I agreed because I have a vested interest in this because my income may come into play as well. I will just be glad to have a concrete plan and move forward. It's very hard on the nerves!
Our BM tried a similar tactic
Our BM tried a similar tactic in court. Her words were if you can afford to fight me for custody or give the SDs a better life then you should be able to pay me more child support. The judge gave her a dirty look and told her that argument is irrelevant.
most of the time, I would
most of the time, I would agree with you, and I have always done DH's mod requests, but sometimes you need an attorney to help you navigate. Particularly with a HCBM.
the last go around with Medusa, we had to use Awesome Attorney for his muscle - lol!
HYNC that is the other issue
HYNC that is the other issue we are looking at. When we see the lawyer today we want an honest opinion on how she thinks it will go in court. After receiving the financial information from BM and SD20 we do have a case for undue hardship. But we honestly have to decide if the offset of lawyer fees will be worth the saving in CS for the next two years.
DH getting a second job will only raise the CS..not sure if that would be the answer.
Our only vacation was our honeymoon. DH didn't pay for that. I worked two jobs for a year and a half. NOT wanting to do that again for sure.
Define eating out? We may splurge on a 12 pack of wings and taters when we grocery shop. Maybe McD's every couple of months. Do we EVER go to a sit down restaurant with a meal that cost over $10.00 each? NO not ever.
Our only hobby that we can say cost us any money would be our weekly night at darts. Cost us $12.00 for both of us to play.
Does that count? Maybe....but in comparing standards of households it is bare minimum compared to what the two Skids spend on eating out and cloths etc in the run of a week. I can't speak for BM...I don't follow her life enough to know what she does.
It sure is a lot to think about.