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Where to Draw the Line with BM

fractioned's picture

My BM is a subtle, calculating bully, and she's ramping it up as FDH and I get closer to our wedding date (in a few months). Here's a little recap before I get to the big issue:

My FSS (9) is awesome. He has always been welcoming towards me and we have a good relationship. I've known him for almost two years and haven't pushed him for acceptance, just let things develop as they would, and it's been wonderful getting to know him. He is very affectionate, wants a tuck in from both me and FDH when it's our week to have him (we are EOW), etc. Now, over the past few months, he's been going through some pretty heavy emotional stuff. He doesn't generally act out negatively but there are some behaviors that have clued us in. Big things are going on in FSS's world.

BM got married a few months back. Overall FSS seems ok with this, and he talks positively about doing things with his stepdad, but there are times when he senses his mom's priorities changing and it sucks for him. BM and her husband are tentatively planning to move, possibly far, and BM has told my FDH that she is considering giving us primary custody if so. Then another time she turns around saying that it might be good for FSS to have the experience of moving, new school district would be better for him, etc. She has dropped hints about both options and we think she might have said some things to FSS to prep him for a change in circumstances (but we don't know what!).

Meanwhile, FDH and I have gotten engaged, and FSS has been getting closer to me. He called me "mom" one evening not long ago which surprised us - he called me that when I first met him a few times but always corrected himself right away, and I hadn't heard it in over a year. This time he didn't correct himself. FDH and I spoke to him about it gently as this is something we haven't encouraged him to do. We asked him why and he said "well she is like a mom sometimes" and then he got really shy. We told him that it was okay to call me that if it felt good and that he shouldn't feel bad about it. We also said he did not have to, and that his relationship with his mom is a special thing and different from the relationship he has with me. He seemed comforted after that, and we plan to let him know he can come up with a special name that only he calls me if he wants to.

Fast forward a few weeks, we're at one of FSS games and he's playing with one of his team mates. The ball rolls over to me and I toss it back to them, and the team mate asked FSS if I was his mom. FSS said "well, sort of" and flashed me a grin (charming lil devil! Biggrin ). Of course, BM was there at the game as it was her week. I know she heard it. She said nothing but afterwards seemed in a hurry to get going and they rushed outta there. I haven't heard "mom" or anything like it since but he hasn't treated me differently otherwise, so I don't know if she said anything about it.

After that BM went on her honeymoon (scheduled during her week, so we got FSS for an extra few days). She picked him up when she got back and FSS called that night bawling and asking to come back to our house, which he has not done since she first moved out. BM dialed the phone for him and before handing it over told FDH he had to tell him no. FDH would have said that anyway, but she just had to make sure I guess. Just great that FSS had to hear her say that. Poor kid.

So now, lately, BM has been getting a bit nastier towards me. Snide comments and backward compliments, typical mean girl stuff. She actually left FSS's last game of the season halfway through, making a bogus excuse to FSS and then texting FDH after she left to let him know she couldn't stand sitting there with us any longer. Of course, while she and I sat there she was perfectly cordial. So fake!

I think FDH needs to revisit some of the boundaries we've got with her in response. I'm tired of being insulted when she comes over (rifling through papers, commenting on the cleanliness of my living room, etc). She is still asking to borrow money, tools, etc too. He has been glacially slow with some of it because he is afraid BM with start PASing his son. Frankly, I am afraid of that as well and have tolerated more than maybe I should because of it. He's been sllllooooowwwwlllyyy transferring automatic bills and such from the one joint account they have left and saying he's scared to just close it. He is afraid to say no to her because she will badmouth him to their son.

This is driving me nuts! She's treating both of us like shit. FDH is between a rock and a hard place because he feels like he has to do this for his son's sake, but he doesn't want to hurt me. I don't want to feel like he's putting my feelings up for sacrifice because BM is holding FSS hostage. I want him to stand up for me, and for our family. Where do we draw the line with her? It's only going to get worse!

Comments

fractioned's picture

We've talked and even argued about this. He agrees that we shouldn't have to deal with this but he won't risk her badmouthing us or starting to PAS his son. I don't know how to explain it to him so he can feel good about telling her no.

realitycheckmom's picture

Explain to him he either cares about your feelings or hers. This is totally inappropriate and he knows it. If he doesn't want to change for you then you will always be second to his exwife and I wouldn't stand for that. I would leave him because he obviously is still invested in his first wife.

fractioned's picture

It's not BM's feelings he's concerned about here - it's FSS feelings. He doesn't want him to be hurt because BM is reacting to us.

realitycheckmom's picture

You said he doesn't want to upset BM, guess what she will continue to take more and more liberties. What are you going to say the day he tells you that he can no longer be with you because it upsets BM and she doesn't want her to PAS SS against him?

fractioned's picture

He doesn't care about upsetting BM, he cares about what will happen to his son. He doesn't know what to do about that part of it.

realitycheckmom's picture

Guess what, no matter what he does she will become bolder and he will keep giving in to her. Read other's blogs and see what happened to them. Since your DH won't set boundaries then you need to accept that your lives are being run by BM or leave. It really is your choice. His son is a child and it is none of his business if your DH doesn't want to have a joint account with his ex or let her borrow stuff. Frankly all he is teaching his son is how to be bullied and manipulated.

I don't see how setting boundaries will hurt his son either. If you are worried about PAS then nothing your DH does will stop her. She most likely has started it based on what you have said about her getting prickly with you and leaving. Take your SS to see a therapist and just keep being nice to him. There is really nothing else you can do to combat PAS.

fractioned's picture

Maybe I should clarify... I'm on FSS side too, I'm just trying to figure out where the balance needs to be. How can we just decide to tell BM to f off like we want to without taking FSS into consideration? How do we help him when BM is being a bitch?

realitycheckmom's picture

WOW! This has nothing to do with your FSS. I give up. You really just want attention apparently since your DH cannot walk up to his ex and say now that you are remarried and I am about to be remarried these things need to stop because they are very disrespectful to our respective spouses. If you just want attention then go for it but if you want this to stop then fine grow a pair and nicely tell BM that there need to be boundaries. IF you don't want to do that then why are you bothering?

myspoonistoobig's picture

BM's needs and FSS's needs are two very different things. Clearly your BM doesn't understand that, don't encourage her by jumping on that bandwagon.

Letting your DH continue to let BM keep his balls AND HIS MONEY in her purse is not the answer, and will not long-term keep her from PASing. It won't. Establish boundaries now, or enjoy having none AND future PASing.

Just sayin.

fractioned's picture

Thanks, realitycheckmom and goodtimes - I really appreciate it. I need to help FDH understand that he can't stop her and that it's better to nip this shit in the bud now.

FDH grew up tolerating alcoholism and assorted bullshit, and put up with BM's bullshit for over a decade. I know he's used to it. I just don't know how to get him to see the reason behind not letting her call the shots.

fractioned's picture

I hope you're wrong about that but I'm not counting it out. We're both on vacation the next week but afterwards we are having a couple of counseling sessions. I hope it helps.

fractioned's picture

Hear, hear! And good for progress! I like that idea of planting seeds, I do my best not to harp on things but it's hard sometimes when they get pushed in my face. When she pisses me off I take some time to think about it before I bring it up, it's just hard to see past the immediate harm making waves can do.

FDH doesn't defend BM when this stuff comes up (thank goodness). He tells me that he sees her as a different person from the one he married and that the person he married is effectively deceased.

I'm sorry you had to hear that from your SO. Yuck.

fractioned's picture

realitycheck I don't understand why you seem to think I'm just seeking attention. I have a family and I'm seeking solutions, not sympathy. The reality here is that kids get hurt when the adults in their lives don't act like adults. I have a situation here where this woman is acting like a teenage girl. It's none of FSS business what goes on with bank accounts and borrowed tools. But it IS his business when his mom makes him feel guilty for loving his stepmom. This affects him, and it's not temporary and it's not just something I can gloss over. I want the best for ALL of us, not just FSS and not just for myself.

realitycheckmom's picture

I say that because every time I say that your DH needs to set boundaries you come back with we don't want to upset SS. Like Goodtimes said, BM will PAS him no matter what you do and honestly if you think setting boundaries with BM will cause SS problems then nothing we say will help. You want boundaries but you want some magical way to get them without telling BM here are the boundaries. That will never happen. You simply have the choice to tell BM here are the boundaries or let things continue but then there is no point to keep discussing it.

Does that make sense?

fractioned's picture

Well, yes, that does make sense. But I really wasn't expecting to come here and be told that it was pointless to discuss what is a difficult issue for me and the people I care about. Obviously I am not on the same level of stepparenting as you are. But this is a place that is supposed to be safe to turn to when we have nowhere else. Not to be judged blind for hesitating.

I'm not looking for Tinkerbell to come save me and my family from horrible BM. I'm not stupid, I KNOW that FDH needs to set boundaries. I know that I have to get FDH to see that this is going nowhere but downhill if we don't change how we respond to BM. I just don't know how to put it to him in a way that makes him realize that it's better for FSS and US that we assert ourselves.

But I didn't come here to get in an argument with you. I have enough arguments in my life. What I'm looking for are examples, thoughts, different points of view, not condescension.

realitycheckmom's picture

I am not arguing or trying to be condescending, you are doing a great job of it with your subtle dig of not being on the same level of stepparenting as me.

You asked for advice and you didn't like it. You got called out and frankly if you didn't have blogs from a year ago I would have said you were a certain poster that keeps signing up under new names to cause trouble.

fractioned's picture

I'm not trying to dig. You basically told me that I should just go STFU as apparently all I want is attention because I am feeling conflicted about my situation and asking for some clarity.

It's not that I don't like your advice, you said some very pointed and honest things that my FDH and I should seriously think about.

I called you out on being abrupt and dismissive to someone in pain, is all. And you're still on the attack.

realitycheckmom's picture

I was not attacking you. It is frustrating because you wanted advice and three times you dismissed it saying no it will hurt FSS so we can't do that. I was not trying to be abrupt or dismissive. You are in pain because your FDH cannot or will not put boundaries on BM. He needs to put boundaries on her. He won't and I don't see what going around and around is doing other than providing you with attention. I am not on the attack and frankly I feel that you have attacked me and I am doing nothing more than explaining myself over and over again.

fractioned's picture

I'm sorry you felt frustrated. I wasn't trying to dismiss your advice, just trying to see though the fog. It sucks when you're stuck between hurting a kid or hurting yourself. I'm not trying to drag you or anyone else around and around. But yeah, I felt attacked when you got impatient with me because it's difficult for me to see what seems so obvious to you.

realitycheckmom's picture

Just to make you aware, your BM getting up and leaving like she did was a subtle PAS manuever. If SS saw her leave early he probably asked why. You don't know the answer she gave him but if SS starts acting differently to you or questioning things or asking things that are way out of character for him then he is being PASed. It happened to me and FDH from FDH's mother.

There was a video on youtube linked on here, I would have said some of the things the mother said in that video if I were in her situation and several here have said it was PAS. So PAS can happen whether you want it to or not. I understand worrying about it because in three short months my FMIL PASed my SS so badly he wanted to never see his dad again so he could be with her.

Watch and see if your BM doesn't try to withhold SS from your wedding or have some drama come up. The closer you get to the wedding the worse the situation will get. You were fine before things got serious (or she realized they were serious) and now that you are really challenging her status and mom and MOTY she is threatened and she will be having a full scale campaign against you. She is going to hurt her ex and you as much as she feels you have hurt her. You didn't say whether you have kids but this is a primal thing with some women, no matter how irrational it is no one wants to be replaced in their kid's life. You need to see things from her warped perspective. Once you and your FDH can realize she will be PASing SS no matter what then you will be in this position. Does BM like drama and conflict? She may escalate to keep the drama going or for the attention. It sounds crazy but my ex is with a woman like this and she goes to extremes that you only hear about on soap operas. She thrives on having an enemy and drama though.

oldone's picture

This really has nothing to do with SS. Your FDH is just using that as an excuse because he either he does not have the real desire to cut ties with BM or he doesn't have the spine to do it.

Your FDH needs to be a role model for his son by being a strong confident man - not a sniveling worm. Right now it sounds like SS is spending half his time with his dad. BM can say a lot but the dad's actions will say more.

BM does not have absolute control over the child. If she starts a campaign to get him to hate his father she could lose custody. She also might need permission to move him far away. The child is 9 years old not 2 or 3 - he already knows who his father is. The BM might get mad at her ex but even if she starts a campaign to PAS it could easily backfire on her.

Your DH needs to man up and totally end his "relationship" with BM before you marry him. You cannot have a successful marriage when your husband is putting another woman's welfare ahead of yours. This is not about the child. It's about your FDH being a man and letting go of his ex.

luchay's picture

Hi Fractioned.

I agree with everyone else - he needs to start setting boundaries NOW.

She is likely already PAS-ing the kid to some degree, you cannot change that. All you and OH can do is keep on being who you are and dealing with the ss the way you both always have. Keep loving him and raising him right, but you can't control whatever BM will do.

So it really is a different issue to the boundaries - YOU and OH need to separate them in your minds. the PAS is going to happen if she is that way inclined (and it does sound as though she is) and is likely already happening. As Realitycheck says, it will get worse and worse as your wedding approaches - regardless of how far over he bends for her. So - set those boundaries. YOU need to talk to your OH and tell him that it is upsetting you, damaging YOUR relationship with him etc.

One thing that stood out for me that no-one has mentioned is - is BM actually coming IN to your house and going through your stuff??????

OMFG - THAT, along with the bank account is where I would be starting. The borrowing shit - not a HUGE issue compared to those two ^^. Reading between the lines - did you move in to what was her home? I guess that is why she feels comfortable just strolling in and making herself at home, and why OH feels that it's ok for her to do it. Put a stop to that shit now. Tell him you don't want her in your house.

This is about your relationship with HIM - nothing to do with SS. He needs to put YOUR feelings and needs first. The PAS will happen with SS regardless of what he does. Hopefully the counsellor will help him to see these things and deal with them.

Good luck.

Stepbell's picture

Fractioned I would take these ladies advice to heart. Set boundaries cause it will only get worse. I don't wish step parent problems on anyone but if you don't gradually get things going in a different direction now you will be posting very many angry and bitter vents within a year of your marriage. Trust these ladies. And me. If I knew now what I did 4 yrs ago, things would be a lot different for me in my own life right now. It won't get easier.

snowdrop's picture

I hear what you're saying. It's scary to set boundaries at first because there's a lot unknown. But think of it like cleaning a scrapped knee. It hurts to get all of the rocks and dirt out, but if you don't do it now it will continue to hurt and fester, slowly getting infected and worse over time. You're worried about BM taking it out on your SS, but like the others are saying-- he's already suffering bc of BM's behavior. Confronting BM/ setting boundaries may be hard now, but it will be progressively worse if you wait.

fractioned's picture

Tog, you're dead on there, he is giving her all the power in this. I respect him because his intentions are in the right place, even though I don't agree with how he's going about protecting his kid. Over a decade of accepting her constant disrespect isn't easy to recover from. But I don't want to lose that respect.

FDH told me he would start doing drop offs/pickups instead of trading off with her so she isn't coming over as much, which is good. And at least she doesn't come over unannounced any more.

It seems like if BM doesn't feel like her position is threatened she is more than happy to give up her kid. I hope she just moves to CA or somewhere with her husband and leaves us all alone.