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WHAT TO DO????

Mum2twogirlz's picture

A bit of background (I have 2 girls 2yrs and 2 months and my partner has a daughter 5 who comes on weekends 

usually a pleasure to have, this weekend was completely different whenever dad was out the room not being a nice girl at all. They were playing together in the room and I went to grab baby a bottle and left my phone recording and heard daughter 5 saying to daughter 2yrs does she want her to push her again, telling her to bite herself and saying to her she better not tell anyone. Showed the recording to my partner and he spoke to daughter 5 and she said we was sad she had been caught and she did it because she is jealous of her sisters, spoke to mum so she was aware and she just flat out denied it "my daughter wouldn't do this" and asked for the recording so we sent it over. She then said she dosent want her daughter around mine???but if she wants to come over she won't stop her, while I agree with this I can't have my daughter scared in her own home, the rest of that day she was telling me and her dad her sister was hitting her and was scared to play in her room and go to get toys out of there. On here looking for suggestions.... advice.... anything

Rumplestiltskin's picture

These are small kids. Do not give them the power to decide anything. They aren't equipped for it. For now, SD isn't to be around the younger kids unsupervised. If caught doing hurtful things to younger kids, an age-appropriate punishment (time out.) If "caught" being nice to the younger kids, she gets praise for what a good big sister she is, how nice she is, etc. You and your DH direct this. SD and BM have zero input on what goes on in your house and whether or not SD wants to come over is irrelevant. When your younger kids are old enough to tell you if someone is hurting them, they can be left alone to play. You guys can get a handle on this now. The kids are still young enough. 

ESMOD's picture

BM is wrong.  it's not up to her FIVE year old whether she wants visitation.. it is up to her FATHER.

How are the kids separated in your home.. do they have their own rooms.. are they sharing?  

I don't think that just brushing it off is the right thing.. but maybe DAD needs to be around and parenting his child instead of you having to wrangle 3 very young kids on your own?

I do think that dad needs to work with his child on this.. and I think he should exercise visitation with his child. .but he should be there to make sure no shenanigans happen.. if that means that the kids are separated at night when sleeping etc.. that needs to happen.  the kids shouldn't be sharing a room until this is more sorted out.

sibling rivalry.. including fighting and othe rjealousies is not abnormal.. but it is not acceptable and the kid needs to learn a quick and fast lesson that it is NOT acceptable behavior in your home. 

Mum2twogirlz's picture

Dad was only in the shower 5 mins and this happend, she's a different kid when he's not there. We are in a 2 bedroom, 2 month old is in with us and 2yr old and 5 yr old need to share a room they each have a bed and got to decorate how they wanted so they both felt important and included. My 2 ye old has went to nursery and will mention someone hit her, this is what I have told her to do if anybody hits her to always tell a grown up not to hit back, going to install cameras because if she is going to nursery and saying these things I am expecting to be looked into and I'd rather have the incidents recorded so bm can't call us liars 

Lillywy00's picture

I personally wouldn't leave them alone. Ever. I would never trust that 5 year old around one on one. BM (nor her dad) is raising her properly to have boundaries or respect for others including her own siblings. 

You a good one. I would have cursed that bio Hag the moment she refused an apology then insinuated your kid wqs the problem. Do not trust that woman nor her violent kid.  Of course she will send her mini-domestic t3rrorist over so she can get her kid-free weekends. 

Sibling rivalry is normal to an extent however step sibling rivalry can cause more strife as there are more adults involved who may not see your perspective/may refuse to handle the situation appropriately because their precious angels can do no wrong sends them deep in denial. 
 

For this reason if I were you I'd be more stern regarding importing kids who act out violently, abusively, etc - unless there is a CLEAR understanding with bio parents and their kid - that violence/abuse in the home will not be tolerated.

 

That 5 year old does not have to be in your home especially if she is a danger to your younger kids. Do not give her any more opportunities to use those young kids as her emotional punching bags. Let Her dad know your stance = if she put her hands on those kids again then he can do his overnight visitation in a Air B n B or hotel. 
 

Sounds like you have an inkling something is off about the 5 year old which prompted you to record. So keep recording when the 5 yo comes over. You may need to hire a lawyer and start reporting this behavior in case your husband acts willfully obtuse then you have professionals in your corner advocating for your peace and your younger kid's safety. 
 

 

Rumplestiltskin's picture

Something probably is off about SD. BM's parenting:

"She then said she dosent want her daughter around mine???but if she wants to come over she won't stop her," Also, very little is said about OP's DH's response. My guess is he is just wringing his hands, letting the women and multiple kids he now has duke it out so nobody fusses at him because that would be stressful.

Kids need to feel like the adults are in control. If the adults let kids make adult decisions, it says to the kids that these grownups don't know their heads from their a$$es and therefore can't be trusted to protect them. That has to be stressful for a child. This 5-year-old has probably been "parented" into these bad behaviors. 

Mum2twogirlz's picture

I had suggested councilling because I got a text saying daughter 5 dosent feel loved or wanted here? We have told her she is and shown her she is we include her in pretty much everything we do and make a point of it, dad and daughter 5 have one on one time then she has said to bm she feels jealous I said if it's a case of jealously because dad is living here we can't do anything about it, that's just how it is. I will continue to record and installing cameras because my 2yr old will go into nursery and say she has been hit and she is scared so I am expecting to be looked into (rightfully so) I have told her if anyone hits her she has to tell a grown up and not hit back because it is wrong. I'd rather have the incidents recorded to say here is what's really going on bm can deny all she wants but it's right there in front of her! 

Lillywy00's picture

 I have told her if anyone hits her she has to tell a grown up and not hit back because it is wrong
 

ma'am...you sound like a nice lady and that's a good thing but this world is not so nice  and therefore gotta move accordingly 

 

if you or your kids need to defend yourself it absolutely right to hit someone in self defense.
 

You have A LOT of predators and unsavory people out here who will take advantage of people who don't defend themselves bc it's an easy target. 
 

Can tell whoever all day long but in an unfair world it's not uncommon for whistleblowers, victims of crimes, etc to get punished or blown off and often times defending oneself in the moment is better than relying on someone else to do the right thing/provide justice after the fact. 

Dogmom1321's picture

Your SO needs to be able to parent/supervise his daughter when she is visiting. If he is unable to uphold his visitation, then so be it. She doesn't need to be at your house if Bio Dad is off somewhere else.

What's your living situation with SO like?

Mum2twogirlz's picture

I offered to supervise the girls while he went for a quick shower before we all headed out, she's a different kid when he leaves the room. If dad is not home she dosent come over, she's there to see her dad not me I'm not her parent she has a mum and a dad. Our living situation is we stay in a 2 bedroom baby is in with us and the 2 girls need to share a room we can't afford a 4 bed 

Dogmom1321's picture

Nope, he can shower when SD is asleep then. Are you both on the lease? Move in at the same time together?

Harry's picture

He can not leave his 5yo alone for a minute.  I would get cameras for the living room. To see first DH actions then SD actions  to see if both are at fault. DH into big happy family. Brother and sisters all loving each other.  BM is out of this this is your home BM has no say in the control of your home.  You can not have a t yo and 2 yo together when the 5 yo is the way she is.  Understandable, SD is starting to realize that your kids have a different life then her,  they are not going between two homes. You kids have a BM and BF living with them. They get to do things when SD at BM.   She knows you do more for your bio kids then her.  You must get a bigger place. Three kids and one bedroom. Doesn't work.  Can't have a baby with a 6 yo. Expecally that that 6yo. I could not sleep at night with them together, there needs to be a wat to keep a camber to make sure SD doesn't do anything.   Your problem is DH is not going to go alone with this.

Mum2twogirlz's picture

I have spoken to DH and straight up said Bm has no say in this house and how it's run. The ipad, no 5 yr old needs to sit by themself on an ipad for hours unsupervised because it's not safe I don't care if she's not used to that, if something was to happen on it I.e grooming, bullying, being innapropriate it's on our heads. It's not happening. The food issue, I've asked bm for a list of what she wil eat I have made these foods and she won't eat them so I am no longer cooking for her dh can do it and there's 2 options, take it or leave it. Dh has agreed with cameras and he suggested the idea, it will all be recorded 1 more incident and she won't be back until bm steps up as a parent and either deals with it or takes her to counselling to learn how to deal with her jealously appropriately without using my kids as an emotional punching bag. When they are out she's not calling the shots of when her legs are "tiered" we all go home, we're out we're out stand there with a sad face all you want the other kids are making memories, if it persists dh can take daughter 5 home. Until we get a bigger house 2yr olds cot can come into our room on weekends if this unsettles her bm will have to just keep daughter 5 overnights and she can come during the day until we have a seperate room as toddlers don't get unsettled for 1 night it usually goes on for the full following week. 

Rags's picture

Stop giving BM any presence of standing in YOUR family. She has no place, input, or value in your family.

Stop talking to the 5yo other than to be very firm with her that this will never be allowed. Then, swat her on the butt, march her to an isolated corner by a twisted ear, plant her nose in that corner, and she can stand there all day except for supervised meals, toilet breaks, and bed time until she goes back to her idiot BM's place.

Why she did what she did does not matter, that she did it matters.  Stop giving a 5yo any decision making authority in your home. She comes on the COd schedule or daddy spanks BM immediately with a contempt motion for interfering in his COd visitation.  See how BM likes getting her ass bared in court and see how SD reacts as she sees mommy get consequences for interfering in visitation.

And... WEB Cams.  Everywhere other than bathrooms.  A 5yo who is this toxicially manipulative needs to have a baby monitor in her room. As should her younger sisters.  I would not put it past this kid to do a late night visit to the baby's and toddler's to try to punish them for the 5yo's jelousy.

Trying to convince a toddler to bite themselves and trying to convince them that they like being shoved, oh hell no.

Mum2twogirlz's picture

I don't believe in raising a hand to any child no matter what, they won't learn hitting is wrong by being hit. There can be other consequences put in place (most more effective) if she comes over this weekend I'm going out, I'm taking my 2 daughters and going out since it's Mother's Day on Sunday anyway I might make it a weekend celebration. I am moving my 2yr olds cot into my room and I will be sleeping lightly if at all, I'll be an anxious mess. Since this has been brushed off at bms house I have a feeling it will escalate. It will be riots when the 2yr old hits her back! It's bullying, I expect my daughters to go to an adult and if it persists to stand up for themselfs they are not punching bags. It was not even so much the shoving that annoyed me it was the whole "you better not tell" she knows what she's done is wrong and she said she was only sad because she had been caught, not because she had hurt her younger sister. Before dad went for a shower 2yr old was crying that she had been pushed off the bed (2yr old is very resilient, no fear, made of rubber kind of kid) so it must have been a hard push for her to have been crying the way she was. I'm at my wits end with this all, if 1 more incident of pyshciall violence occurs they can do visitation out with this home. What else can I do? 

Rags's picture

Tell your 2yo that if the 5yo hits or shoves, hit back and draw blood.  A fearless 2yo may be just the ticket to end the crap perpetrated by your DH's failed family 5yo.  Before either your toddler, your baby or some random kid at school gets hurt then pummels the bully severly. Direct firm parental action would likely solve the problem as well.

Bullies only learn when their victim causes them far more pain than the bully is willing to experience.  Bullies bully because their victims tolerate it instead of ending it forcefully.  IMHO of course.

I was a kid who was targeted by bullies.  I hated conflict and fighting frightened me.  It still does. However, I learned that it hurts to get hit so I might as well make sure the hitter is hurting far more than I am.  End of bully problem. Until I changed schools. It only took one bleeding bully on their way to the hospital for reconstructive surgery at each new school for me not to be bullied at that school.  I was easy going, decently attractive, a decent student and a decent athelete. Invariably someone at a new school would test me. It never happened twice at the same school.

My SS was targeted by bullies on the school bus when he was 5 not long after starting Kindergarten.  He would come home with bruises on his neck from an older kid who sat behind him on the bus choking him.  So, we called the school, the bus supervisor, etc... to no avail. Regular bruising on my kids neck continued.  So, I coached my kid that the next time he was choked on the bus from behind to reach back over his shoulder, grab the choker's ear and rip it off of his head  It only took one partially severed ear to end the problem.  That night there was pounding on our font door.  The bully's dad was waving the hospital bill at me. I asked him to wait for a second, called my 5yo to the door while his ear bandaged 11yo was standing behind him, showed daddy my kid's bruised neck, and told daddy next time I would sue him and have my kid keep the ear that would no longer be attached to his kid's skull at all.  The kid got  his butt chewed as they marched down the street back to their house.  Dad was not happy that his kid was choking a kid less than half his age.

As for raising a hand to a kid, a pop to the butt with a hand is not raising the hand. It is actually lowering the hand to the level of the kid's butt.

Pardon

My brother and I were never allowed to fight. I am 6yrs the elder.  The rules were clear. No fighting.  If we fought, when our USMC dad got home we had to go out to the back yard and fight him.  That never happened. We were smarter than that and knew there was zero tolerance for fighting with each other.   However, a 6yr older kid wrestling with their younger sibling can get frustrating for the younger sibling. When I was about 15 my brother and I were goofing off, wrestling and roughhousing around.  He got mad, told me "Don't do that again or I will  hit you!". I laughed it off and did it again.  He popped me in the mouth and chipped a tooth.  I got angry, pinned him, made sure that he understood to never hit me again. I did not hit him though.  Then I appologized for not picking  up that I had angered him. That is the only time we ever got physical in any way other than playing.  We almost did when I moved back home at 21 and he was 15.   Neither of us would start it but we were pretty heated and in each other's face.  Good thing it did not come to blows. My little brother is far more aggressive than I am.

As for a bully, all bets are off IMHO. The bully does their thing, the bully bleeds.

CLove's picture

She probably is jeally because your kiddos have more of dad and mom than she does.

Nanny cams definitely, seems you got that.

Its extremely common for children to "play the houses". Tell BM one thing, tell BF another. 

I used to tell Powersulk SD17 that when she got big enough and mad enough, she would defend herself to the extent her sister would have some fear. This when SDthen16 Feral Forger was beating up on her 8 yo sister. And she did. Slammed a shoe on her hand and she had a sprained fingy, poor pwincess.

So, I kind of like the approach of teaching kiddos that defending themselves is good, ezpecially since you will have cameras in case 5 yo violent bratola will more than likely make accusations...

Mum2twogirlz's picture

The cameras are 100% being set up, she said to bm it's because she's jealous so what's next the 8 week old? A push down the stairs? I said to bm if it's a case of being jealous because dad is here that's just how it is, parent and support her in this because we have done everything we can to make sure she feels included loved and wanted we have told her and shown her. 

Rags's picture

She is manipulating and deflecting because she knows enough about right from wrong to understand that she F'd  up big time.  She should receive very firm unpleasant consequences for shoving a 2yo and attempting to manipulate the 2yo into biting herself.

Nea

ESMOD's picture

One thing I will point out is that your husband is the child's father.. and while notifying BM that there has  been an issue is fine.. HE is the one responsible for his child and his child's behavior in his home... and he needs to get on top of this.. himself.. 

Felicity0224's picture

#1 I'm shocked that people are asserting that your DH shouldn't be able to shower while his child is visiting. That is just crazy to me. This doesn't mean that you have to supervise her while he's in the shower. A typical 5 year old should be able to play unsupervised for the amount of time a shower takes. Just make sure she stays in the house and isn't left alone with the little ones.

#2 I will echo what ESMOD said - this isn't fully BM's responsibility. Your DH is one half of SD's parents, and he is just as responsible for teaching her to behave as BM is. He needs to get a handle on it and not just expect BM to magically correct/control SD's behavior when she isn't present.

#3 Sending a child away when they misbehave is INCREDIBLY damaging. It won't take long for her to internalize that if she isn't perfect at all times, she will be abandoned. That sets her up for a lifetime of relationship problems. 5 years old is not too late to intervene with therapy or even just discipline at home. Of course you have to make sure your children are safe, but isolating a 5 year old is not the way to go about that. It's heartbreaking to me to think of a 5 year old being separated from her family because she hasn't been properly equipped to handle/express her emotions. 

Mum2twogirlz's picture

I let bm know what had happened because I was worried as this behaviour is unusual and wanted her to also be aware Incase there was bullying at school etx

dh had dealt with it then and there, had a one on one with her and spoken to her about why she shouldn't do this and if she feels jealous she can come and talk about anything

 

if was not our choice to send to granparents we wouldn't have done this, bm responded and said this is what we had to do and she didn't want my daughter around hers

Winterglow's picture

Bm has no say in what happens in your home. I would stop communicating with her entirely. If there's anything to be said to her, let your husband do it.