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Online Cheating

Persephone_'s picture

I read this blog religiously and am a stepmom and bio mom. My question for you all is do you consider chatting with camgirls on paid sites to be cheating? I think it is because of the interaction and intimacy and obviously I'm talking about more than chatting but this is not the site to go into sordid details. I caught my DH paying for these sites and many more I'm not aware of. He's not that remorseful because he says it's the same as images etc and it's no big deal for him to quit. He deleted his accounts but I know he can go back whenever and probably hide it better.

We have had this talk a few times already and I say it's cheating he says it is not and will stop then years later I find more and we fight again. I'm at the point where I think divorce is the most reasonable option here, he won't address it or even show me how much he has spent on these girls. Has anyone been through similar, am I the crazy one for thinking this is a huge betrayal of our marriage? I have no one to talk to since it's pretty embarrassing.

Comments

RoundIGo's picture

Regardless of anyone's answer, it hurt you deeply and he should be taking real steps to rectify the situation. By that I mean counseling, either with you or by himself and giving you free access to all his devices. That's what my husband did when I caught him looking at lingerie ads. IMO it's a huge betrayal and ruins trust. You both have a lot to work though, your pain and his problem. If he's not about apologies and changes... I'd be out. 

Ispofacto's picture

Meh.  It's one thing on a long list of things I'd find unattractive for a man to do. 

Often things like this are a manifestation of attention seeking behavior, so it may be part of a larger problem.

He's not going to stop, so plan accordingly.

 

Persephone_'s picture

He's definitely an attention seeker in many ways. I always knew this was bound to end badly I guess. He's very appearance obsessed and has always been a bit lechy checking out women when we are out together. He stopped this when I'm around since I said something. I just don't trust him anymore, I used to think he would never cheat physically but I'm not sure anymore.

Persephone_'s picture

He doesn't want to show me anything, I asked. I found plenty on my own to know enough. The only way I can stay is if he did let me see everything is ok. He's not, most likely because he has a lot more to hide than I realized. I was very trusting for a long time and I figured if he betrays me there is nothing I can do or anything I can snoop on to stop him if he wants to. We have been together a long time and I'm afraid to lose my best friend (dh) over this. We still get along but I can't get past this coupled with the fact that he doesn't even try to be sexy with me ever.

Aniki-Moderator's picture

If he showed you and the sordid details were worse than you thought, what would you do?

What is his reason for not trying to be sexy with you? I'm guessing you mean either no sex or no foreplay.

Persephone_'s picture

I can't imagine anything worse than my imagination and I understand he's basically mutually pleasing himself with someone else. I don't want to know all the details, it would probably stick in my head too much but it happened. He admitted to using it for fun and saying it means nothing to him. He said it was typical stuff and I'm blowing it out of proportion. I can't see it that way, it's painful to me that he sought that out with someone else. Many someone else's on several platforms. Yeah it's not physical but obviously he's getting something there that he is not with me.

la_dulce_vida's picture

He says it doesn't mean anything?

Then it should be very simple to stop because your feelings should surely mean something.

Persephone_'s picture

Aniki, if I saw things talking about me or how he only prefers one of them or anything pointing to taking it off the site even in messenger I would leave. I think he's using messages and maybe all day when I'm around?! Not knowing is making me think everything is that.

Aniki-Moderator's picture

I'm so sorry, Persephone. We're all different as to what we find acceptable/unacceptable in a marriage or partnership. This behavior bothers you and is unacceptable to you. Your H doesn't think it's a big deal. To me, this is a compatibility conflict - and a major one for you.

He's never stopped; he hides it. Possibly a sex addict.

I see 3 choices:

  • Things continue as is. You opt to follow through with divorce. 
  • He doesn't stop with the cam girls, but puts in the effort to be sexy with you. Is that tolerable to you?
  • He stops. But he has stopped before. It was obviously temporary and likely because you objected. So it will simply be a matter of time before he starts up again. You resign yourself to that and either move past it or remain unhappy.

 

If your finances are combined, this affects you. You no longer trust him. Putting aside him being your best friend, what is left if there is no trust? 

ESMOD's picture

I don't think it's cheating per se.. but it is a breakdown of trust to hide things from your spouse.  I would also think that if he isn't getting the intimacy from you.. and you him... counseling would be more appropriate vs paying for "false" gratification

SeeYouNever's picture

I put myself through college being a cam girl back when there was quite a lot of money to be made and the market wasn't completely saturated!

I'll offer you my perspective. It's very much like going to a stripper but safer. The guy will suspend reality for a while and pretend like this woman whose time he has paid for actually is interested in him and whatever he's interested in. It's very much fake and putting on an act but it can become very costly and addictive.

If I found out my DH was doing the same thing I would be livid. Mostly because I know how these guys act from the other end. It's not just live action porn its a virtual girlfriend experience, and they charge by the minute.

Back when I was doing it it cost $7 a minute to talk to me, and there was some guys that spent thousands of dollars doing it.

In my relationship I do not mind porn but I would very much mind spending money on it or going to a stripper.

There were three kinds of guys. The first type was somebody who had a very specific fetish and had to explain to you what exactly they wanted. The craziest ones were a guy that wanted me to pop balloons or dangle shoes off of my feet. The second type where the guys that wanted to build a relationship and pretend like I was going to come out and meet them somewhere. I'm pretty sure these types of guys use escorts and some of the girls probably did go out to meet them. Was usually the very wealthy guys that were like this, they were probably single because they were very into seduction and romance. The third type where the guys that would spend a couple bucks here and there for some not too extreme fantasy.  These were the ones that fully admitted that they had wives and sometimes involved the idea of their wife in a fantasy. There was this one guy in particular that would pay for about 5 minutes of time with me and then want me to do something to help get him off and then at the very end of the 5 minutes he would always pretend like his wife was walking in to catch him, that was his thing.

Of course there's overlap between the three types.

I've probably made this worse but I did this before only fans was a thing so it's got a much bigger social media and messaging component to it now. Nowadays the models (what they call themselves) will send out things throughout the day to try to get their customers interested in spending some money.

I'm honestly glad I did it when I did because it seems like so much more work now for a lot less money!

Persephone_'s picture

7$ a minute wow, that's typical? He has ED and claims he just watches. Do most men use the camera too?

SeeYouNever's picture

I was on a "classy" website Wink and it was the most expensive one. Some girls charged 9/min and guys still paid.

Most didn't use their camera, they did mostly chatting or once ina while used their audio.

la_dulce_vida's picture

Many men who have "ED" are porn addicts who pleasure themselves so much that regular sex with a regular woman cannot excite them as much as porn and their own hand.

CLove's picture

So, here is my input on this:

No - I have not been through this before. Husband left Toxic Troll BM because she was communicating with other men online. And also texting them and they were sending her nudes...she swore up and down that it was not physical. Even so, he moved her out (many reasons, cheating just gave him an excuse), she continued trying to get back together, she kept insisting she was not physical with anyone else. He created an online profile of the site she was using, he made contact, texted back and forth, he told me that she got really nasty (as in sexual) and they made a date. She told him to bring a few boxes of condoms...he showed up on her doorstep whereby he revealed himself as her catphisher. lol. 

I think that cheating can be emotional, physical, financial. If he is using marital assetts without your permission, that is financial abuse and that is also cheating. He is physically withdrawn from you. His energy is being poured into these online cam girls, not you.

I think you need to get your ducks in a row. See a lawyer at least to see what your options are. Do not become intimate, you dont know where the wick is being dipped (because its not you according to your comment). Make copies of important docs. Separate finances if you havent already. Get yourself as ready as you can, just "forget" to mention it.

That way, when you are emotionally ready, you are also physically ready.

You know he wont change, the only question - is this acceptable for you?

NotYourAverageStepMama's picture

Good on him for making it impossible for Toxic troll to be able to wiggle out with excuses and lies since he had undeniable evidence. I bet she still tried to lie and make excuses regardless.

CLove's picture

Shes that kind that will re-write history. She didnt cheat physically, blah blah. Until caught that is. We have caught her in many lies. Its entertaining. Like the one where she said she didnt claim feral forger on her taxes when she did. lol. That was FUN.

Or the most recent history re-write - SD16 is now telling me her mother never choked feral forger. But husband has texts from TT where she is admitting that she did in fact choke her, as well as slap and body slam.

NotYourAverageStepMama's picture

Her do that. BM in my situation told the children or rather she claims her daughter only that DH kidnapped her because she was living with DH primarily at this time since he knew he wasn't her biological parent that it was kidnapping. Even though he was on her birth certificate and since BM hadn't done anything remove his parental rights at the time so he was her legal father still at this point. So already that isn't the truth of what happened to begin with and we have seen the CPS report that SD told the CPS worker that she was kidnapped as a baby and DH gave her back to her mom.
 

So yeah talk about major rewrite of the story and when brought up just that SD believes she was kidnapped BM said that's not what I said I just talked about how you had no right to her sister and it was technically kidnapping since you're not her bio dad

lieutenant_dad's picture

Doesn't matter whether I personally think it's cheating. You do; he doesn't. There is an incompatibility there that one of you either has to concede to or it ends your marriage.

If you're wondering what others think to help you decide if you should continue to think it's cheating, then my vote is "it's hard to say". I personally put it in the same category as a strip club. The women doing it aren't actually interested in your DH. They're just interested in his money and will say whatever he wants to get him to part with more of it. Unless he thought there was an actual emotional connection there OR he was building intimate relationships with these women (i.e. talking about his home life, issues with you, telling him he loves them, etc) I don't know that it would upset me that he paid camgirls. If he was building intimate relationships, then I'd classify it as cheating.

Outside that, what WOULD upset me is the amount of money potentially being spent AND being lied to about it because he knew it would upset me. I have nothing against paying for porn (I'd rather pay for something reputable) but camgirls can get pricey really quickly. If other bills and financial obligations are being missed to pay a camgirl, I'd be pissed. And having my DH hide something from me because he knows it will upset me (doesn't matter what it is) is guaranteed to piss me off 500 times worse than if I had just been told upfront. The money and trust issues would be just as likely to send me packing as cheating would. 

CLove's picture

Chump lady calls it "being the marriage police", when you are constantly having to find out what they are up to...

Persephone_'s picture

I hate that! It's so fitting though, I hate having to worry and be his mommy. I refuse to do it. Sometimes I think that's why he's like this because I give him free reign and don't pushback enough.

Persephone_'s picture

The money is a huge issue. I don't like porn in excess but I don't care really if it's free and not affecting our sex life. Apparently that's not enough these days!

Persephone_'s picture

He's deeply in debt and I would like to see how much was spent on camgirls. He says he can't remember hahaha

 

 

CLove's picture

If you havent already. And those $$$ are still technically considered marital assetts.

NotYourAverageStepMama's picture

And even in DH's it would be cheating. We are both very monogamous and porn/cam girls/sexting, anything that involves the other any sort of sexual nature with anyone else would be cheating. We also believe in emotional cheating too. However, we both agree on what constitutes as cheating and there is no question. 
 

For you, you believe this to be cheating and you have expressed to your DH how it makes you feel and he disregarded your feelings. That would be enough for me personally to end a marriage as this go around he knew how you felt, that you thought it was cheating and he did it anyway. I cannot tell you to end your marriage over it because it is your decision. Do you think if you stay in the marriage he will actually ever stop this behavior or do you think it will be a constant cycle where he stops for a while, probably apologies, and says he won't do it again just to repeat the cycle some years later? If you don't think he actually will, then there is no trust in your relationship. A marriage or relationship without trust is not a marriage or relationship to me. Having no trust, interacting with other women in a sexual nature, and using our finances that way would be it for me, hands down.  
 

I am sorry you are going through this. I hope things work out for you and you do whatever makes you happy. 

DPW's picture

Regardless if the act is cheating or not, it's deceitful, plain and simple. He has kept this from you more than once, he secretly took funds and, at the bare minimum, paid women online to "chat" but could be more. I think he has an addiction if this is a repeated pattern of lies and as you mention, he visited multiple sites, etc. He does not see the error in his ways so he is going to white knuckle it until he has an extremely urge to do it again and will do it again. Is this what you want? If I was you, I'd insist on couples therapy in order to give this relationship a chance. If he declines, I'd end the relationship. I've been with someone like this, it was not fun and nothing good comes from it at the end, except wasted energy and lost time to live a better life. 

Persephone_'s picture

Thanks for the words, I think yes he's not going to change. I understand too much now when I did not understand the first 2 times.

Merry's picture

Here'e my take. My husband was involved in emotional cheating. A real person, real feelings, real  online conversations not appropriate for a man who loves his wife. That was definitely cheating.

My therapist, in helping me through the situation, brought up pornography (not my issue with my DH, but a discussion point). Some people consider their partner's use of pornography cheating, some don't.  For those that DO consider it cheating, a loving partner considers their partner's feelings and decides that either the porn is more important or the partner is and they act accordingly.

In your case, your partner is telling you that the cam girls and his ego are more important. That's the ugly truth.

CajunMom's picture

Yep. Cheating. It's a betrayal of trust. It's also very demeaning to me....as a woman, a wife. Why am I NOT enough? I dealt with this in my first marriage. Never again. That's one issue I do not have to worry about with my DH. And I'm thankful.

As many have said, it is an individual choice/mindset but if it bothers YOU, then it's WRONG for the relationship. And the amount of money he's spending?? OMG. Yeah...stick a fork in me, I'd be done. 

Best to you. Hopefully, you guys can work it out.

SteppedOut's picture

He's already deeply in debt, yet is spending on this? Good Lord, divorce him and hope you don't get stuck with some of his cam girl bills! 

Felicity0224's picture

Only you can decide if this is cheating. If it feels like it to you, then it is. And if it is, in my experience, it would be better to leave sooner than later. I know that there are men out there in the world who cheat, get caught, and never do it again. But I think they're rare.

My XH was incredibly convincing every time he swore he'd never do it again. I'm not an idiot by any stretch, but I absolutely believed him. I believed him the first time, all the way until the fourth time I caught him having full blown affairs. If I'd left after the first time, I would have saved myself an unbelievable amount of pain and suffering. 

I don't like to tell people their relationship is doomed, but if you've made it clear that this is a betrayal and he's done it even once since then, chances are he can't control it and will never be able to. You undoubtedly deserve better. 

Persephone_'s picture

That's very sad, I'm sorry. They can be convincing and it's something we want to believe. That they will love us above all other women. It's heartbreaking when it's not true and you've committed so much of your life to someone who prefers obviously fake online sex.

reedle2021's picture

I wouldn't like this.  I would feel betrayed and like I'm not good enough - I guess I would consider it cheating in a way.  The part that would bother me the most is that he lied about it.  If he lies about that, what else is he lying about?  It would make me insecure in the relationship.

Only you can decide what you are willing to put up with.  But this would be a deal-breaker for me. 

justmakingthebest's picture

I wouldn't tolerate this. It would be cheating to me.  I see no difference from doing this and sending pics back and forth from some chick who found him on social media or something. 

Pornography can quickly become an addiction and I personally feel like those in committed relationships that go to something interactive like your DH is doing are only one "drunk mistake" from physically cheating. 

If I was in your shoes, it would be a deal breaker, with the one exception of getting into counseling and never locking a computer or cell phone around me again. And if I ever caught him again- or found a deleted history, that would be it. 

Shieldmaiden's picture

Yes, I would consider it cheating. If he were just looking at porn, that's one thing, but he is interacting with naked women - and that is different. 

My DH and I always tell eachother when someone is flirting with us at work or hitting on us. He tells me about women hitting on him at work and we laugh about it together. (He is very outgoing and funny, and women often mistake that for flirting.)  It makes him feel desirable and I get the benefit of that. LOL. Also, I tell him about the guys at work that ask me out, tell me I'm beautiful, and ignore the ring on my finger. He joking says he is going to beat them up and we laugh. It keeps us both connected, honest, and we reaffirm that we are the only ones that get the benefit of eachother's affections. If he didn't tell me about some woman hitting on him, that is when I would worry. 

 

Thumper's picture

It's cheating.

It does NOT matter whether he thinks it is or not.

What matter's is, do you think it is cheating.

He is deeply in debt and he buys cam girls? Does he also pay child support? So your pay check is supplementing his cam girls and child support-----NOPE, nope nope.

Quietly, get your ducks in a row, stash as much money as you can. 

Then make a decision about your future.

I am sorry you faced with all this.

 

 

 

Purple-pinkSkies's picture

...it's not the same as a couple mutually consenting to the use of porn.  Forget is it cheating?  It's a special kind of financial and emotional abuse (gaslighting, etc.).

It also in my situation was so pathetic it was impossible to come back from the loss of respect I believe is necessary to maintain a marriage when your partner is choosing this path.  

Is it an addiction?  Maybe? I think mine just used addiction to keep me in the therapy loop for years trying to save the marriage while he continued to live in this side world he preferred.  It was a very convenient excuse to keep me in the marriage, trying, supporting the family financially, keeping it together for the kids, etc (we married in sickness and health, right, and addiction is a sickness... Blech.) I wish I hadn't let it matter because I wasted years of my life on it.

Lots of women say porn isn't a big deal to them, either because they believe all men do it and why bother trying, it just comes with marriage (it doesn't have to) - or it really isn't a big deal to them (fine) - but don't let yourself be confused between being married to a guy who likes to watch porn and being married to a guy that engages in the behavior you have described.  If it's to the point he has ED it is likely a very long term problem and worse than you want to believe.

All the advice re read up on the manipulation and mind games, get your legal ducks in a row, protect your finances, protect yourself physically and don't assume he isn't actually physically cheating is 100% on point.  

Also based on a few things you wrote, read about covert narcissism and see if it rings any bells for you.  Just a side note that might be worth looking into.  I know we can't diagnose people but we can read about behaviors and realize we are experiencing them in our relationship.

I have one new question for you to consider because I noticed your comment that you didn't want to lose your best friend.  

Is this how a best friend should be treating you?