What does it really boil down to?
Another long time poster with a ton of knowledge and wisdom said "SM's certainly inhabbit a part of our society that is a difficult one. Why so many men fail to celebrate their bride after living a nighmare is beyond me." I couldn't agree with that poster more. Some SM are willing to give the man and his kids a chance only to be treated like trash. The truth is a lot of these men like the ones mostly talked about on this board are just baggage that a woman doesn't need. I bet alot of women who get involved with these men think the men would be glad to have a quality significant other. However, it seems like they are incapable of truly loving and caring about that type of woman so instead drag her down in the mud. I generally think these men are unhappy because they know they made a mess of their own lives and so have no problem letting their mess infect their new woman's life. Who knows, maybe they miss the HCBM's drama because it's their normal. Whatever the reason, it really is an unfortunate situation for the women involved.
Sometimes even when the women dump them (such as in my case and others I have read about), the men won't fully go away or tends to resurface. I have continued to distance myself from my ex, but he doesn't seem to get the picture. Is it that or are these men so desperate to want to have women live in the mud he created for himself? There is zero appealing about being a part of what people call here "stephell."
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Rare men....
They are out there. For our part we have to be willing to do the work to find and recognize them, as opposed to settling and trying to change someone else.
I believe the same thing can be said about a lot of women.
I think a lot of divorced men
I think a lot of divorced men --women too, but that's another topic-- look for a woman who has exactly the opposite of their ex's flaws. But they don't do the hard work on themselves: why did they marry an underfunctioning woman, or how did they contribute to the first marriage breakdown?
XW a lazy spendthrift who refused to work and let the kids run feral in a dirty house? Then he seeks out a hardworking money-managing woman who keeps her home spic and span (who is probably drawn to him because she's a fixer). Dad's life solved! and his habits go unexamined and unchanged.
Until his new wife's resentment explodes. Then he's taken aback and resentful that she's breaking the covert expectation he had of her: to overfunction so he can stay comfortable.
I treated my ex just as good
I treated my ex just as good as any other man I was in a relationship with. Thing is, because he wasn't used to being treated that way he eventually started to take me for granted. I also found out he had many more failed relationships than he told me about and that he was a weak, pathetic person who parented out of guilt and tried to purchase his adult kids' lives no matter how horribly they treated him. Then he would get moody, irritable, and tried to take it out on me but I shut that down. As I started to see he wasn't the man he pretended to be, I wasn't trying to fixing him. It was either fix these issues that he knew were deal-breakers for me from the beginning or get left.
I left him before but this time was for good. If I had to guess his issues played a big part in his many failed relationships too. He asked me to go to therapy with him, and I did consider it, but then I thought about it again and decided I would try to help him find a good therapist for himself but I wasn't going with him. Then the more I thought about it, I just decided to distance myself from him. He had these issues long before I ever met him, and the likelihood of him resolving them was slim. I decided to just distance myself from him because he just wasn't worth the trouble.
My husband told me a bit
My husband told me a bit about the people he dated after BM but before me. for him that was the stage where he was just repeating patterns in going for the same type of woman. When he met me he was at the go for the exact opposite stage. He told me over and over again how I was not like anyone he had dated before.
Have my own very good job, we would who would pay for dates, I didn't get jealous, and I was pretty transparent and didn't keep secrets. Prior to me he had dated women who we're just trying to take whatever they could from him in terms of him paying for dates and gifts had children ex-boyfriends or ex-husband just didn't tell him about. BM completely used him financially and the females in his family also expected him to pay for everything for them so he thought that is just how women are. well for me that is not the case I made it clear to him that I am independent and I kept him around because I wanted him not because I needed him and to keep that in mind.
I think once men get into long-term relationships they get very comfortable in them. My husband can cook do laundry and all that stuff but I know for a fact he enjoys that I do it. I think they also prioritize having somebody around so they get laid on a regular basis because chasing women is expensive and time-consuming. I made it clear from the start that I was not going to be a mother to SD because she has a mother. the most he was going to get out of me was cool aunt but any of the hard work of parenting was always going to default back on to him. The easier you make life for them the harder it is for you to pull back later. Who wants to give up a good thing when somebody is making their life easy?
Seeyounever, I definitely
Seeyounever, I definitely told my ex even before our first date that I wasn't playing mom to anyone's kids. My kids were adults and so are his. However, his functioned like little helpless kids instead of young adults striving for success. He still even tried to get me to act like a mom to his youngest daughter despite what I said and despite her being the type of person I would never associate with.
You said "The easier you make life for them the harder it is for you to pull back later. Who wants to give up a good thing when somebody is making their life easy?" Sometimes I wonder if that's the only reason he tries staying in contact with me. Like your dh, women have used my ex for money, even his youngest daughter. So me being a professional hardworking woman who earned significantly more than him, was definitely a change for him. I am sure he misses the benefits of having someone like me in his life and didn't think I would leave him for good. I guess sometimes you have to show them rather than tell them. His time in my life has expired.
Hoovering
He is trying to hoover you back because he knows he will never keep a good woman. He wont change. The crap would be worse if you go back. Try no contact, block him. You deserve peace and happiness and a quality man, if they exist...
Another way of looking at it:
Another way of looking at it: these men *do* think you're a quality catch, and a major upgrade to their XW. But they've placed all blame for their life's mess on the XW, instead of examining themselves.
So he takes you for granted as the equal he deserves (you chose him too, after all, and people don't -shouldn't!- feel grateful for being chosen), while he now sees his XW as beneath him.
ETA: not to dump on men -women can be just as blind to their own bad patterns, IMO.
PicardyIII, that is an
PicardyIII, that is an interesting way of looking at it. It does make sense too. When the relationship between my ex and I was starting to go down hill he would act like a child and call me by my professional title rather than my name. He would also start saying that I am so high up and he is so low down. I guess that is how he really felt. So if he could feel that way about me, then surely he could see his HCBMs and/or exes as just being beneath him.
I think my DH is not
I think my DH is not necessarily the baggage himself. He's a good husband to me and he definitely appreciates me after his years of misery with BM. After his divorce, he dated a lot of people because he vowed not to make the same mistake twice.
I think DH's problem is that he doesn't fully understand how to neutralize all the baggage that led him into marrying BM to begin with. For example, MIL. For the most part, he keeps her at arm's length, but he doesn't call out her bad behavior and he tends to indulge her more than he should. He's also admitted to me that he has lower standards for SSs because they live with BM and he knows that she's not a great mother. So, I guess that is DH's baggage, which causes challenges in my life. However, I see it as a bit different, because he does treat me well overall. I've also disengaged from his children and he hasn't given me a lot of grief over that. Also, he doesn't stir up drama with BM, SSs, or MIL...he just doesn't shut it down in the way I would like, because he's better at ignoring it.