When stepkids have control over visitation. How to handle?
Hello. New on here hoping to find some good advice as i dont know many people that are stepparents.
I am 29 years old married to my husband for 5 years (been together 8 years) with 2 step daughter's ages 11 & 13. They live with their mom full time and come to our home every other weekend. When we lived in the same town my husband got them 3 days a week but now with his new job and the distance it is every other weekend.
Behaviors have changed so much since puberty within the last year ughhh(im sure many of you all understand). We all use to get along so well and boy do i miss the girls young lol! Where do i start...
My husband and his ex have had a roller coaster of getting along/blocking each other/ talking/blocking again... its so childish. For the last 4 years ive been the middle guy whenever they cant communicate well. Recently i decided for my health and sanity i just cant do it anymore. I stopped responding completely to her and told her she has to talk to my dh.I am civil and kind when i see BM but i cannot be the mediator anymore. The stress and nonsense is too much. They are talking very little now and only through her husbands cell since all phones are blocked( her choice).
The younger one has skipped visiting for close to 5 months up until this past weekend.She refused to talk about why and the new me is not going to ask or pry. Im done being so involved. It started with her being nasty to her dad screaming at him to shut up and she didnt want to come over in fear of getting in trouble. Then for some reason wouldnt talk to her dad for several months. BM told my DH that she cant force her but she "encourages her to come". We knew that wasnt true. This weekend when she came for the first time was pleasant but a little awkward. Older stepdaughter has never skipped a weekend but today she got in a fight with her sister which lead to my husband yelling and just a big screaming battle. (I stayed quiet im done being involved.)
So this screaming battle lead the Older daughter, who has never once skipped a weekend, threaten to not visit again because she was getting scolded for yelling at her little sister. I dont think my husband did anything wrong. He was simply trying to break up their fight.
What im getting at is since now both these girls know they can come and go as they please, they know they have control to hurt my husband if they dont get what they want.
I am much closer with the older one and explained that that threat was very hurtful especially becauase his younger daughter just came back and she knows how much its hurt him. She did end up apologizing but shes never threatened that before. I think now she knows its an option.
The last 4 months with her alone has personally been great. No fighting and i truly truly enjoy her.
They have a court order but my husbands lawyer has told him at that age its hard to force them and could be a big court battle.
I guess i just find it sad that since theres no co parenting the kids know that they can use this mean threat to gain control of my husband and their wants and use it as a weapon. This infuriates me. I refuse to go back to the old me and talk to BM though. This isnt my issue. I guess im just wondering if anyone has advice or has experienced anything similar.
I worry for the future of my husbands heart. I think they will not visit if they dont get what they want or if theres any punishments/my husband teaching obedience. I mean they have nothing to loose since they can just run back to moms with no consequences and not have to return to dads. At moms she takes away phones, friends, sports so they respect her and listen.
Idk where im even going with this. Trying to stay strong for him but also disengage so i dont loose my mind lol.
Disengage or you will lose
Disengage or you will lose your mind. This is not your mess and you can't clean it up.
I have disengage very much. I
I have disengage very much. I have cut off contact with BM and I have backed out of a lot of things that I used to speak up about. But at the end of the day I still very much care as they have been my family for 8 years. My husband goes to me for advice and this is a topic that I don't even know what to say. That is why I just wrote this whole thing.:(
We had the same issue with
We had the same issue with OSD. DH fought it tooth and nail by threatening to withhold CS if OSD didn't come over...which isn't at all legal, but BM was super greedy for her $$$. Basically, DH would have stopped paying and forced her to take us to court for it. His logic - if you want to put me through a big court battle for my daughter, I'll put you through one for your CS.
At any rate. That would never do...so two weeks after OSD decided at 14 that she was never coming over here again...she magically showed back up without comment at BM's insistence.
This is not what I would recommend because, again, there's no legal standing to withhold CS. But DH knows his ex and knew that even the threat of delaying it for a couple weeks or months would be enough to get her attention.
SD14 started deciding her own
SD14 started deciding her own schedule around a year ago. Drove me nuts. Based on information from this site I advised DH to not allow it, it was his time with her. But he didn't. And it became a norm. Made worse by the fact she could get to BMs on her own.
She ended up leaving our home for good in April, blaming DH for being a bad parent, yelling, forcing her to stay in her room, not including her in activities, etc. All lies generated by her teenage brain.
BM says the same thing yours does, just be clear that BM very well could enforce the CO and make sure the SDs maintained visitation...but it's better for her to be on their good side right?
As SM there's nothing you can do. Support your DH. But remain a step back.
I wonder what BM would do if
I wonder what BM would do if they refused to go to school? "Encourage them" to go? Nope, she'd MAKE THEM.
Your DH needs to go over with CO in hand and call the police if his kids won't come out. Most police officers won't enforce custody orders, so this is only for show, and for court. After a few of those, take BM back to court for not following the order. (Now, I will say this, my DH did this and it didn't work, but you need to do it anyway).
If he just passively lets them decide whether they are coming over or not, he's giving up all parental power.
Thats funny you mentioned the
Thats funny you mentioned the school thing because back when i did have contact with BM i said the exact same thing to her...her response?
"Well that would never happen because she loves school so your point makes no sense"
Thats her personality. Imagine smart remarks like that every time you talk to her. I had enough. I nicely disconnected completely from her.
Yea i guess we could start a court battle and get no where(3 different lawyers told us it would most likely do nothing) but im TTC and im the bread winner. Ill be honest, its time i be selfish. I want to start a family and not throwing every penny we have towards lawyers. That will only cause more stress and most likely do nothing.
They win and have control sadly. I guess im just trying to figute out how to handle it without giving them too much power ya know? The older one respects me and we had a good talk before she left yesterday. She has severe anxiety and just lost it. She apologized. I still worry for the future though.
OK, then your DH needs to
OK, then your DH needs to stop moping around like Eeyore and let his kids know he loves them, and they are welcome in the home, but he will not be treated with disrespect any longer. And stick with that. That means that of course he gets them something for Christmas and their birthday, but doesn't give them any extra money or gifts. There is no begging them to come over or trying to work things out. He's warm, but firm. He's the adult.
My SS18 was alienated for over 3 years, but my DH never gave into any of his or BM's attempts to use that to get what they wanted from DH. He told me he had been abused by BM and he was no longer going to be abused by his son. When SS texted demanding stuff from our house, DH made him come over and have a conversation about it, he didn't scurry to put it out on the porch, as SS demanded.
He needs to find his backbone and show the kids that he's the adult.
I second this 100%.
I second this 100%.
OSD was cruel and abusive to DH...just like her mother....from about 12 until 19 or so. DH whimpered like a puppy and begged and pleaded at first...and then he didn't. He made her maintain her visitation until 18...and he enforced rules. And then when she turned 18 and went no contact...he totally let her go. BM would try to communicate with DH 'on behalf' of OSD to ask for money for school books or other support and perks...and DH on repeat said: "OSD is an adult now, and if she wants something she can call me or text me directly. Not through you." Wash. Rinse. Repeat. Over and over and over again.
About 8 or 9 months after swearing she was 'never going to speak to him again' OSD came crawling back...asked him to lunch. Then they started hanging out, texting and calling...on a fairly regular basis. She broke down sobbing when we gave her a present for her 21st birhtday last year (it was really nice) as well as when we put her back on our phone plan with the other two kids and picked up the tab for her insurance for 6 months to help her out before she went back to school...I'm fairly intuitive, and it felt like tears of genuine remorse and shame.
We haven't explicitly talked about those 7 years...but I believe her re-established relationship with her dad is genuine and not about what she can get out of him. She's very independent and has turned into a better person. She just needed to know he was the adult and he wasn't going to accept the abuse.
Ok i choked up reading that.
Ok i choked up reading that. Im glad he remained strong and it turned out for the best.
My dhs ex is very manipulative. She can convince her girls of anything. She has deep hate for my husband(i could tell when we use to talk) and i felt like in time she would manipulate the younger one who didnt visit for 4 months to hate her dad. Shes very close to her stepdad. I eventually broke and called her and told her to put the past in the past. I did it for my husband. He would talk about how hurt he was almost daily. She won that fight for sure but it is nice to have that weight lifted from both our shoulders.
I just worry about the future now since the older one whos never once skipped a weekend threaten to not come because she feels dad was favoring her younger sister? 13 year old with such a powerful weapon. 11 year old too!
I wish my husband would be stronger about this. I have a feeling it may happen again.(someone skipping weekends)
It's like we had the exact
It's like we had the exact same situation except in reverse.
For me, it was OSD being poisoned by BM's hate and manipulation...and YSD who was the joy and spark in the home...but who went through a brief dark phase.
Here's the thing...in our case, DH spent so much time catering to OSD and chasing her and capitulating to her...that YSD has legitimate complaints against her older sister now. She WAS treated as second-fiddle to OSD...that whole "squeaky wheel" phenomenon with the kid who seeks negative attention.
I know it's hurtful to hear OSD say that...but maybe she's feeling like the older brother in the prodigal son...right or wrong. She's thinking: "I've been here this whole time and now YSD gets welcomed back with open arms?" Maybe her mentioning not coming to visit was not meant as a threat but as a plea..."Is that what it takes to get your attention?"
And this is what totally sucks about PAS and BMs who poison their kids against their dad. It infects the whole family in one way or another. I think my YSD, who started out as a delight and really precocious, became "troubled" and started behaving baby-ish for attention at some point. I also think she felt pressure to be "extra good" to her dad and take care of him in a way...to make up for OSD. When one kid gets twisted...they all become vulnerable.
Specifically dealing with OSD - I'd suggest that your DH schedule a time to go out with just her. Not as a 'reward' but just to get to know her on her own and to express his love to her. In families where one 'problem child' is the constant focus, it's easy for the other, easier kids to get left out of the conversation...at least, I saw that happen to SS and YSD when OSD was being so horrible. EVERY parenting conversation revolved around her...kids pick up on that stuff, even if they're not around.
I never thought about this.
I never thought about this. Thank you. Ill for sure let him know. Shes a doll and i know she truly cares abojt our feelings. I honestly dont think the younger one cares. I truly feel she was just bored and her mom was working all weekend so she came.
I did pull older step daughter and husband aside after the fight and basically played counselor. Made them talk in a calm matter and i said "yes it is different for all of us. We went for almost 5 straight months with us 3 and now **** is back. Of course its going to be different." We all made amends and i love how close us 3 are.
The younger SD was welcomed with open arms from my dh but not from me. I was kind but not all cuddley and close like we use to be. I feel shes got to start over again with me. Ive heard she says some pretty aweful things about me. She begged me to call in Saturday to see me but im sure she went home to her mom telling her how horrible i am. I use to be hurt but now im over it. It sucks becauae us 4 have had some awesome times together but things have changed. Younger sd is going to be just like her mom i can already see it. Im treading lightly with that one.
I would, too. It totally
I would, too. It totally stinks to put yourself out there and have them turn on you like that.
I got to the point where the sight of OSD made me physically ill...because I saw the pain she was putting my DH through as well as her siblings. Didn't care so much about BM, who called us sometimes 'at the end of her rope' with OSD, begging us to do something...but she created the monster.
But now that she's older, I genuinely enjoy her company...she did come out of it. 11 is so young and not nearly fully-formed. Set rules, consequences, expectations...don't get down on her level. And just ride it out. Try to convince your DH to do the same...to be the adult. Not guaranteeing it will work...but he has a much greater chance of having a relationship with her if he acts like the adult now...and of her turning into someone he actually wants a relationship with.
With the older one...the key is not to panic or be reactionary. Who knows how she's really feeling or thinking in all of this...she probably doesn't even know. It may be what I suggested above...or she may be testing boundaries and liking the taste of power...or she might have been trying to make a lame joke and it came out all wrong...or she may have just been having a bad day.
If she ever mentions it again, I hope your DH will not act hurt or put on the guilt trip but, instead, say something like: "It makes me sad for you that you've given up hope for having a relationship with your dad. I haven't given up hope for our relationship, and you're welcome to call me or reach out at any time...but of course I can't force you to have a relationship with me."
This is what I advised my DH to do when OSD wanted to go no contact. It put her on her heels a little bit. She said: "I never said I gave up hope for our relationship. I just don't want to come over any more...I still want us to spend time together..." (aka, she wanted him to make a special effort to take her out and buy her things...)
DH told her - then we won't have a relationship on those terms, because you're my child, but you're insisting on calling the shots.
Anyway...I've probably taken up too much space on your post. I've just been through a very similar hell and know how bad it hurts. You and your DH have to set that aside, though, and stand your ground.
Oh i like you taking up room
Oh i like you taking up room on my post:) i appreicate all your feedback and wish i had someone like you to talk to. I dont have any friends or family that have stepkids.
I must have missed this reply.
I feel differently about younger sd. Sounds mean but i couldnt even give her a real hug goodbye. I feel shes her moms little spy and shes not sincere. I know shes only 11 but idk where to even start with all the nasty things ive heard come from her mouth. Like she completely has twisted stories in the past to make my husband and i look like monsters and of course bm believes her perfect baby girl.
I know i may sound evil but i really have loved having older sd alone. I wish there was a way to only have them one at a time.
My husband says they were good all weekend until i was around all day sunday. They both fight for my attention and of course drama...then dad sticks up for younger sd and more drama.
Im thinking i may have to distance myself or maybe take one out with me sundays when im home.
You don't sound evil or awful
You don't sound evil or awful at all. And I'm not saying "she's only 11" to say that you should change your stance or give her a pass. Kids can be downright evil at that age. My OSD was. She was a horrible little black raincloud of a person. My OSD actually told her little sister YSD that she "shouldn't think she was special just because she got cancer." The beeyotch said that to her sister right in front of my face and I almost punched her. (YSD got cancer at 13 but is all good now). I've had truly mean and horrible thoughts about what I would like to see happen to OSD...and when she quit coming over and we just had the other two, it was like the sun was shining again for the first time in years. I felt so light-hearted and happy...and I didn't feel at all guilty for feeling that way, at that point. I had done everything I could...and I wasn't willing to do any more.
I say that "shes only 11" to give you hope that SHE can still change...not to suggest that YOU should change or put yourself out there more. You've already sacrificed enough marrying a man with kids. In fact, I think you probably SHOULD let her go...and convince your DH to let her go...with the comment that the door's always open if she chooses to come back and act like a family with you on your terms. That's the only thing that has a hope of working. As long as he's chasing her and giving into her...she's going to abuse him.
Even if he's unable to do that...it doesn't mean YOU have to continue to accept the abuse. Go out with just OSD. Cook with OSD, watch movies with her...go to her school stuff. I went out with just YSD and interacted with just YSD all the time. My DH didn't like it...but I wasn't going to stay home and captive to OSD just because she didn't want to do anything. It's totally fine to disengage from one kid and remain engaged to the other.
I love that you and i feel
I love that you and i feel the same way even though completely different families.
Thanks for saying that about her being 11 anand theres still time to change .hopefully she will but all i see is her becoming her mom. Her mom is a very unhappy person. I use to hear all about it and thats another reason i had to cut her off. She would tell me all about personal stuff even sex life everything. Alwsysss so negative. Not my kids not my problem but hope they come out still happy adults. I would never wish harm or for them to not succeed in life.
I absoultely adore older sd and her mom recently blocked me from her. No real reasoning. I know its because she hates how close we are. It hurt really bad at first because we wojld text daily but now ive accepted it and just look forward to when i can see her in person.
My dh does get crazy jealous of us but he doesnt interact like i do. I think he just doesnt know how. Hes very anti social in his adult life too. I hope when we have kids the connection will be stronger and will be easier to be himself. We are currently TTC. Ive put my life on hold for a long time. Im finally being selfish. We finally have good jobs(we use to be so poor) , our own house and just ready.
I will continue to be kind to younger sd but i think your right and i should make some alone time so theres no oppotunity ffor the girls to fight and make threats based on jealousy. It sucks but i guess thats every other weekend kid life.
TRUST ME i totally agree. If
TRUST ME i totally agree. If it were me handling the situation with her not visiting i would have been making calls to her counselor or showing up at her school lol.
He just does nothing in fear of rejection. Im not going to lie though im afraid of the older one not visiting too. I really enjoy her and we have gotten so close now that shes been coming alone almost 5 months.
She did end up apologizing to him but the fact that she threatened to not visit makes me believe she now knows its a weapon to use against her dad when shes angry. It makes me so mad but i cant show my emotions or get involved.
It is really hard and scary.
It is really hard and scary. I don't mean to imply it's easy. My DH suffered a lot at first when his son began refusing all contact. But finding his strength helped way more than you can imagine - giving a kid power does not help them in any way. It will only ensure that they continue to manipulate him well into their adulthood.
Oh i agree!
Oh i agree!
Its funny for the longest time i always wondered how the younger daughter would get in so much trouble in school and her mother would always defend her and she was never wrong. I heard her on the phone with her mother saturday(sitting right next to me) and wow was she nasty to her mom and hung up on her!
If that were me id be livid...im sure she wont face any consequences for that when she gets home.
My point is, i 100% believe that these girls manipulate their mom at home and run the house. Now seeing this all play out im positive that this is true.
Bm would tell me how they would be punished for a day then get all electronics back ect and they use to do some bad stuff in school! Fighting stealing...
Now that im writing this now i really worry for the future of these girls with such power over both parents!
Yep.
Yep.
Exactly the same with my OSD. It's not like she was nasty to dad and great to BM. She was evil and nasty to BM as well...it's just BM let her rule the roost and walked on eggshells and did everything exactly as OSD wanted her to. My DH did not...and tried to get BM to set boundaries for a child who was clearly begging for them. BM wouldn't...so OSD didn't want to come to our place because we actually had rules and expectations and treated her like a child.
Guess who has the better adult relationship now?
I overheard my dh and older
I overheard my dh and older sd having a convo about her living with us. I adore her but no please no. For one that would be one expensive court battle and for 2 we are rarely home we work so much for 3 shes already changed schools 6x and shes only 13!!
I have completely changed my attitude in ththe last few months. I am limiting what i say and if they dont brush their teeth all weekend or change their clothes im not saying a word. I just wont bring them anywhere with me. I feel my opinions just didnt matter so why put so much energy into some thing that i have no control of and no one cares about my opinion lol...well my husband does but i meant bm. Her and i use to be friendly and communicate a lot. I dont hate her and i am steering clear from any drama but wow my anxiety and stress is 90% gone. I just want to be helpful for my husband to have contact with his children, even if its every other weekend(i personally would fight tooth and nail for at least split custody but thats not my battle)..
So she skipped visitation
So she skipped visitation until right before the gift-giving season? Uh huh. Sounds a bit planned.
Your DH can pick up both kids, demand both kids, and file contempt when BM doesn't make them both available. Her responsibility as CP is to make the kids available. Allowing SD to stay at her home isn't making SD available. Maybe if he files contempt enough and BM has to hassle with an attorney enough she'll throw the 11 year old outside and tell her to deal with her father like the budding young adult she is.
Her birthday was the end of
Her birthday was the end of september and she didnt get anything from us. We decided if she skips dad she skips everything at dads. I think she expected we mail something to her. Nope!
We talked to 3 different lawyers and all said the same thing. You cant physically force a kid to go and at that age is around the age where they can choose. Our state sucks.
We know they both now have control when they want to visit.
My husband has showed up at their house, called many times, called the cops and cops tell him to bring it to court.
We just bought an older house less than a year ago and have spent SOOO MUCH on unknown hidden repairs. We cant afford to go start a court battle.
I ended up calling the kid and thats when she agreed to come over. Apparently she fears me and i reassured her to put the past in the past and start over. Of course she just goy away with treating her dad like complete crap but i couldnt watch my husband be sad daily for almost 5 months. It was killing me. She was very good and respectful all weekend but i know she will skip again if she has something more fun to do.
If they had a birthday party or event they use to call qnd ask, now they just let my dh know. Clearly bm is teaching them they dont have to respect their dad or his time with them. Guess its something we cant control and just a sad situation.
Im not going to let eithet of them run my house though and i feel differently about younger sd. I was kind but i cant go back to being cuddly and sweet like before.