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Francesca's picture

I have read many of the posts here and can't believe other people have been through what I am going through. My partner's soon to be ex-wife has done so many devious and scary things that I really think she should be hospitalized. Sometimes I am so depressed that the situation is the way it is. She has tried to kill herself (or faked it), staged break-ins to the garage, text me from cell phone stores pretending to be a friend telling me my boyfriend is cheating on me etc... That's just appetizers. So depressing is when the 4 year old comes over and says "daddy kicked mommy out of our house." They rented their house for financial reasons. She won't work, just like many of you state here. The teenagers write letters to their dad that he loves his whore more than them. The children are suffering the most... He is trying a psychologist/lawyer mediator to try to correct this. DCFS is involved due to her suicide attempts... If she happens to see me, sometimes it is unavoidable as we live together and sometimes go to pick up the small child, she goes crazy gesturing obscenities, screaming, swearing in front of the kids and neighbors. OMG it's just too much. Our relationship suffers because sometimes I take out my anger on him. I don't understand why she doesn't try to do the best thing for her children. I do... I never say anything bad about her to the kids. I just tell them that sometimes adults have problems and can't stay married, but that everyone loves them. They are not even my children and I try to make them feel safe and loved. I am so scared of the depths of her deviousness and lying that I worry everytime he goes to pick up children by himself. She told the whole family that he left her and the kids with no money and had to get food from a church. Totally a lie as his check is depostited into a joint account. She had full access to all the money until recently when he changed accounts and began making payments to her. I just don't understand... And then these women wonder why their husbands divorce them? They didn't just wake up one day a maniac. They ARE maniacs. They act ok until life throws them a curveball. She keeps telling him that his responsibility is to her, not me. She, however, feels no responsibility to work or contribute (part of the reason for failure). She quit a nursing program 2 classes short because she was getting squeamish. I could write a book on this nonsense..... Why can't these ex's be adult women and act like a normal person? Angry, sure, upset, sure, we are all human. But crazy games and tricks including suicides in front of kids? They should lose custody altogether. Don't know what I'm really asking here, just don't understand.

Comments

wriggsy's picture

Welcome to Step Talk!

I will be honest here. You have two choices at this point. Run...screaming like a banshee...in the opposite direction -or-
Settle in, put on your big girl panties, pull yourself up by the bootstraps and get ready for the ride of your life.

I say it in a joking manner, but I am actually serious. You already see that the kids have a crazy BM, even if you partner stands up for himself and you...it's possible that BM will make those kids crazy. Are you ready for a lifetime of hate, anger, attitude, and lies peppered with short bursts of sanity?

I have been with my DH for over 10 years now and I clearly remember the warning bells sounding in my head. I had that "I can fix this" attitude. Here is it, 10 years later and all I can say is "Please Lord, help me get them through high school and PLEASE make them get out of my house!" And that's the nice thoughts! Most of the time, I just pray that the skids will move in with their mom and magically forget where we live.

lifeisshort's picture

You say your "soon-to-be partner." Hmmm. Makes me wonder...
How did your relationship with your boyfriend begin?
If it began as an affair, be prepared for the consequences. Having one's life as they knew it, having their spouse and marriage taken away from them, having to watch their children leave to stay with a woman who ruined their life can be quite a life-altering experience, and one that can make even the most sane, rational person lose their ability to act and react logically.
But, IMHO, that's one of the consequences of becoming involved with a married man/woman. It's a choice. And we have to deal with the consequences of our choices.

If your relationship did NOT start out as an affair, then I can imagine it's still very hard for someone to have their life change like this, even when they're the one who initiated the change. Try to back up and let the Dad take care of anything that related to the children. It will lessen your stress and shield you from the negativity.

Best of luck!

Francesca's picture

Yes, I agree that one's life changes drastically there is an adjustment period and pain and healing, but let me just put this out there...
Imagine a case where the woman chose to leave the marriage (but remain a mother to her children) and the following ensued. The husband called and harassed her incessantly, he chased her in his car at high speed. Then he beat her new boyfriend's car with his fists and pushed her repeatedly in the chest. He refused to let her see the children and tried to take them to another state in the middle of the night. He took a wet 4 four year old out of a backyard pool and threw her in the back of the car after screaming and gesturing obscenities at the mother, refusing to let her pick her up. He trashed the garage three times and called the police claiming a break-in. Later the window glass is found packed in a box. He pretends to try to kill himself by locking himself in the bathroom with a bottle of pills. Locks himself in the garage and turns the car on in front of his 14 year old, miraculously rescued by the child. This same man makes his wife sell her car and takes the money out of the bank the next day and cannot account for it. I think this man would have a restraining order against him and his children taken away. People have abiased opinion because this is a woman.

lifeisshort's picture

You know what, I had some of this happen to me when I left my XH (I did not cheat on him - he was abusive). I had to take an OOP out on him. But I don't think he shouldn't be able to see his child. XH's reaction was due to my taking control of my situation and leaving - he was irrational and wrong, but it was not the sum total of the person he is.

My SM also tried to commit suicide after her husband (my biodad) left her after 36+ years together for a younger woman. She tried suicide TWICE. My half-sisters have had to go through so much stuff... she was despondent, financially ruined, no education beyond high school, no job... Can you even understand what it might be like to be this woman and have some compassion? I can. I can see why she would act like that. It may not be right, but it is human. And she still deserves to be present in her kids' and grandkid's lives. It's not the sum total of who she is.

JMHO.

lifeisshort's picture

You didn't answer my question. I'm getting the vibe that this your way of saying that, yes, you did have an affair with this married man, he left his wife for you, and he remains an active father to his children - and all his actions are justified because the mother lost her mind AFTERWARD? Sorry, what you did- the infidelity - was what CAUSED her to lose her mind! I have no sympathy for cheaters. You chose that.

I do think that, after a while, if a cheating spouse proves to be remorseful for their actions, if they prove to be an involved parent to their children, if they prove to be decent and sparing of the ex's need to heal and give them space to do that, then I think forgiveness can happen. But I wouldn't expect that kind of kindness for a few years down the road... JMHO.

I know a lot of relationships start in infidelity. Some last a long time, some go down in flames. Lots of people think that the responsibility lies solely on the spouse who is cheating, not the affair partner. I disagree. Both affair participants have a choice in the matter. The only people with no choice would be the other spouse and any children from the marriage.

Many affair partners choose not to see the life of the married spouse outside of what that person tells them or what they see on the surface. To look deeper into the relationship of the married partner would be to admit to oneself that what you're doing is wrong and hurtful, disrespectful and damaging to so many more people than you can ever know. And when you're participating in an affair with a married person, you don't want to see that. You don't want to feel guilty. You want to feel the excitement, the passion, the "connection" with this person that is not getting what he needs at home... blah, blah, blah.

I call bullshit on that.

We make choices in life. Sometimes, they are selfish choices based on flawed information. And sometimes those choices affect other people in a negative way. We can never truly predict how another person will react to having their whole world shaken, everything they know changing and not having ANY control over their own lives or dreams and their outcome. So, when you start out a relationship as an affair, YOU make the choice to take away another person's choice that they had already made - a vow that they took - and you change the trajectory of their life. Like when you choose to drink alcohol and then make the choice to drive a car. You know that there's a chance you could hurt someone, but you don't care, you want to get home. So you drive drunk and you cause a wreck that kills someone, thus the ensuing fallout. Or when a guy chooses to have unprotected sex, knowing that SEX causes pregnancy, but he doesn't care, he just wants to get laid, and hey! this chick said she's on birth control, so it should be fine, plus he hates condoms... then the line on the pee stick turns pink... HELLO?!? Personal responsibility anyone?!? There are consequences for our choices and our actions. And one of those consequences of having an affair with a married person is to have to deal with the fallout - the pain, anger and frustration that you had a hand in creating.

If you had an affair with this man and he left his family for you, then you made a choice and you took your actions. Sorry the consequences are so difficult for you to deal with. But you must deal with them in a kind and understanding manner. After all, if you were a party to the breakdown of their marriage, you had a hand in creating this situation. Good luck.

distorted reality's picture

Wow. No offense but, isn't it a bit too early to assume that her relationship started out as an affair? 'STBXW' could indicate that they met during the separtation (much like how I met my FH) and is not the reason for the divorce. TBH, if this BM is acting this badly, it shouldn't matter what triggered it. The fact is, she is unstable and the kids are victims of her inability to deal rationally as an adult. Period.

For the OP.... I think that you should back off and maybe let your presence be less known for the time being. This woman sounds unhinged and you certainly don't want the kids exposed to anymore of her shitty behavior, right? Sometimes we have to rise above the crappy BM's destructive tendencies b/c the kids don't need anymore stress. Best wishes.

lifeisshort's picture

None taken.

I don't know if you read my entire post, but I asked the OP about the status of the beginning of the relationship - she came back with a cryptic-reverse situation in answer to my question. So, I'm not judging her, but I'm being honest about how I view infidelity and what the possible consequences might be. If she's not a party to the breakdown of the marriage, then yes, she's experiencing some harsh feelings from the BioMom and it's irrational, but it is what it is. She can't control another person's behavior or feelings but she can control how she perceives and reacts to them.

distorted reality's picture

I did read your entire post. I didn't see anything cryptic in her answer. Her reverse situation was understandable.... had the behaviors exhibited by this BM been done by BF, people's opinions would be less forgiving. Being a 'victim' BM does not give this woman an excuse for putting her children through the torture described. You seem to focus on some affair instead of focusing on the mentally damaging behavior of the BM. Which was the OP's issue. That was my point.

lifeisshort's picture

I can see why you might get that from my post. But what I was trying to get at was that people react and behave a certain way for certain reasons and it's really not something we can control. It's true, some women act out irrationally regardless of how their marriage ended. Sometimes jealousy gets the best of us and we lose it on other people for no reason at all. Maybe this is the case and maybe this how it happened. But sometimes our lives are changed through the thoughtless actions and choices of other people and we lose it on them. One can be more understandable than the other, I think.

I think that when a person has an affair with a married person, there are consequences for their choices and actions, which could include: the ex-wife goes ballistic on them, the ex-wife loses it in front of the children, the ex-wife speaks negatively of her ex-spouse to the children, the children might see and hear things they shouldn't, the children will have to bounce back and forth between homes, the children will have to deal with their family being torn apart, the children will have to deal with a parent that might be angry/depressed/emotional, etc. That's just part of the fallout from that kind of choice and those actions. The BioMom isn't the only person who should shoulder the blame in this. I think affair partners should also take some responsibility for how their actions affect the whole family because the repercussions don't stop at the three adults in the situation - those actions affect the kids, the grandparents, friends... it has a ripple affect.

No one can predict to what extent the reaction will be, but be sure that there will be strong reaction to having your marriage ruined. I'm sure there are members here who could attest to that feeling.

distorted reality's picture

Hun, I understand what you were trying to get at. You've made it perfectly clear how you feel about affairs and the people involved in them. You have very valid points. BUT, we don't really know yet, whether this relationship was born from an affair. I think the OP might have been scared off a bit by your strongly worded convictions. Again, no offense intended at all. Smile

That being said, even if she was an 'affair partner', that's really none of our business. The bottom line is this, the BM is acting out in a way that is damaging her children and creating massive instability in their lives. What the OP was looking for was support and advice with how to deal with this high conflict BM. We both agreed and advised that steering clear of her was the best course of action to take, so hopefully the OP will give that some consideration.

Best wishes.

Francesca's picture

Wow, I didn't know I would start all of this. And, BTW, I need help with all of the acronyms here.
Well, how do I explain this? One post keeps talking about our affair. Yes, he was still living with her when he met me. However, their marriage was not good and they lived very different lives. And, I don't know if it makes any difference, but we are 47 and she is 40. We did not feel that we were having an "affair." We met and became friends and then began to see each other. Then he told me his situation and that he did not want to lose his children. My partner is from a European country and does not read English very well. She told him that in America he would lose his children and never see them again if he left. He was also afraid of the wrath of people like you, the families involved and his children. So, he stayed unhappy for 8 years. After he told me he was married and had children, I told him that I'm not the woman for this type of situation. I've never been married and have no children. I did not want to get deeply involved in a situation that I knew I would leave. My life was simple, but happy. He asked me to give him some time to figure things out. He knew that she would go crazy as she began having mental problems after the death of her father. She was volatile and aggressive during their marriage. My partner is a very quiet, gentle man. Even now he almost never raises his voice to her and in some situations he is terrified of her. In any event, he decided he wanted to leave and asked her for a separation. That is when she started to act like this. Her first response was to trash the house and throw the 4 year old in the car and drive off into the night. Then the police found her on the side of the road and took her to the hospital. She did that a few times. He remained in the house to protect the children for several months. On every phone call there was screaming and crashing and children screaming in the background. I finally called her and told her I was going to call 911 and some of it stopped. Finally one night my partner was taken to the hospital by ambulance due to her hysteria and violence. She actually called 911. He left that night and went back only during the day to see the children. He even stayed into the evening to eat and sit with them, but not sleep there. He went to the schools to pick them up... He made a choice to leave his wife, not his children. After that were the "suicide" attempts and he had to go back under a DCFS agreement not to leave her with the children. After that she hired a marriage counselor who he told he wanted a divorce. During the session she threw picture frames at him and the counselor had to leave.
So, you say, we deserve what we got? I made a choice? That's for sure. I made a choice to stay with the best man I have ever met and suffer the consequences. During all of this she never asked him what went wrong. Her phone calls were about his responsibility to her. She has never worked, quit college that he paid for, ran up her cell phone bill over $1200.00 on text messages and Internet games (I called the company). Taken thousands of dollars out of the bank (went into the bank statements), did not pay the car payments and got one repossessed, did not pay the car insurance and got that cancelled, let him drive for four months with no auto insurance. And he should stay married to a woman like that? How do you do nothing with your life for 20 years, especially when someone paid for your college? Do you think that we don't sit up until dawn discussing the state of the children? Calling and visiting psychologists, the attorney and mediators? The point is now that the children are suffering and in order to get them to some type of normal life he has to win custody. She will not go to therapy as she says nothing is wrong with her. It will have to be court ordered. But, this was not to be about me. She can say whatever she wants to me, but the way she is acting and treating her children is abhorrant.

Francesca's picture

Thanks! Whoever Lifeisshort is keeps pounding the infidelity point, missing the real issues. That's kind of the Lifetime For Women view of the situation. Rotten husband leaves long suffering wife for young, hot thing. So not the case here. It was never my intention to reveal so much info but couldn't get past those posts. What I really want is to talk to other women who are experiencing the same thing and get some insight. This is not the sort of thing that I want to share with friends. Too much burden on them. I never called the police or Social Service agencies because my partner asked me not to. He does not want the kids to see her in jail. I should have called the night she dented my car and attacked him on the street (then the high speed car chase). I'm so sorry I didn't. DCFS is still involved and we have had meetings with them. They are sending the kids for counseling but the case worker will not reveal if the BM is going for counseling. Trying to get info from them is like watching paint dry. Just wait and wait. No organization, no follow through and reports that are incorrect. Don't know!
Thanks for the support!

lifeisshort's picture

Thanks for your disregarding and completely minimizing the abuse I went through.

You don't know me. You don't know any of these people. You only know what they tell you. We only hear one side of a story on here. Is that really the unvarnished truth of the matter, or it is one person's perspective of the situation? I believe, for the most part, it is the latter. And I realize that is the same for me. I'm sure my XH or his wife would come on here and have a TOTALLY different view of my first marriage. But how the SM could know anything, since she wasn't THERE, in my marriage, is beyond me... all her knowledge is second-hand and from XH's perspective. And, it's interesting - SM called me about three years into their marriage, crying to me, saying she wished she knew then what she knows now about XH. I think that gives some credibility to my story...

I was in an abusive marriage for over a decade. But I found the strength and GOT OUT. By myself. Mine is hardly a victimized-woman story, mine is a victorious-woman story.

So no, actually, I'm NOT the kind of victimized BM you write your so-called-blogs about. Not at all.

skylarksms's picture

Most people do not make a choice to involve themselves in drama to this extent (unless they have serious mental issues). It is something that just happens.

And I am the first person to be preaching about not going into another relationship unless you have ended your previous relationship.

I guess in a situation like this, the dad knew or had a suspicion that it would end badly with BM being psychotic. That is probably why he hadn't ended the relationship long ago. He finally realized that he had to when he met someone sane who cared about him.

I would think that he would be able to gather plenty of evidence (police reports, etc) to prove this BM is an unfit mother and get custody of his children. I would be terrified for their safety.

Francesca's picture

Thank you for all of your comments. Can I just add that in college I was a Sociology and Women's Studies major. I was going to go into feminist law. I changed to education for my graduate degree. I have been involved in many abused women's activitsies including volunteering at abused and homeless women's shelters. I like to think I'm sane minus the human condition. No one should be abused, however, that includes men. I think I have changed to a humanist rather than a feminist since I have been in this situation. I was not in their house for 20 years and didn't see what went on. From knowing my partner, however, he is a good man who didn't know how to get out of the marriage. If he wasn't a good man she wouldn't be trying so hard to get him back. Even now he trys to treat her with respect but she has no respect for herself. Also, being divorced does not give you the right to unbridled aggressiveness and abuse. I am finding out how biased our system is as we go along. I laugh when I think that in the beginning my concern was that I would be jealous of her children and I was terrified to meet them. I didn't know if I could handle being with his children as I have none of my own. Now I wish I could just take them far away and take care of them, especially emotionally.

Francesca's picture

Thank all of you for your stories. It helps me gain some insight. Are we over the "affair" business now and can we move on? I've read other posts that sound similar to mine... I find it sad that these ex's do these terrible things and lie about what happened. As for taking responsibility for one's actions, the BM's need to take some, too. I've never been married, but I've been left. Looking back I can see that the relationships had reached a lifespan. For whatever reasons they had run their course and could not be revived. For me personally most of it was that I changed and we did not fit together in the same way any longer. There is only one ex who I blame, but I say thank God he left me.
I also find it sad that in this day and age women still leave themselves financially dependent on men. Even if they choose to stay at home and raise children they should obtain an education or skill throughout the years so that they do not end up dependent. As in my partner's case he has been layed off and simply does not have the resources he used to.
So, for step parenting, I would like to get some feedback. Now you know the background so it will make sense. When the 4 year old girl comes to stay, she is a terror. She is not used to rules, meal times, bed times or good behavior. She won't eat anything but McDonald's chicken nuggets, doritos, chips candy, etc. I've bought kiddie plates, Barney cups, princess cups, Barbie utensils in an effort to interest her in real food. You guessed it, that's what she eats with BM. She has run off out the door (now we have chains), hid in the closet and pulled my parrot's feathers out. My approach has been to have talks with her and give her choices (eggs or cereal, greenbeans or corn, etc.)explain how running off could be dangerous etc. So, how do I deal with a child whose mother does not have rules in her house? We do all sorts of fun and interesting things with her, but the mundane daily act of living is where we have problems. Then there is the BM issue. One night the child said " I don't live here, this is not my house, you are not my momma." I simply told her that she had two houses, one with her momma and one with her daddy and you are loved at both houses. What to do?

Francesca's picture

OMG, we took her to the pool all summer with a Coast Guard flotation vest. She was told not to get into the water without the vest on. NO MATTER WHAT, or you may drown. What do we do????? Take off the vest and jump into the 10 foot end. Good thing I was a lifeguard back in the day. One day she was at the pool with BF so I could get some work done in the house. He comes running into the laundry room panting have I seen his daughter? She simply ran out of the pool area through the locker room and into the parking lot (condo) and into the buildings where she got lost. A nice lady brought he back to the pool. I so wanted to spank her, but didn't. In a very deep, emotional discussion, BF tells me "you are her second mother." Hmph, if that's the case then you and BM are FIRED from parenting. My take is that if the BM is raising her this way, unless he get custody soon the behavior will be too entrenched to change. Yes, several mornings in the car I just told myself, "not my kid." Of course we can't stick to that, can we? I even refused to talk about her for two weeks and attended to my own problems. I've put locks on the parrot cages and put away dangerous stuff. Now when BM plays games and doesn't let him take her, I say nothing. BTW, is it normal for a four year old to want a bottle 2 times a day?

Francesca's picture

Yes, we have fun, too. Sometimes we dress her in a pretty outfit and do her hair and then make daddy close his eyes and surprise him. She tries hard to be grown up. Yes, I'm surprised how step parents are given such a bad rap... Thank you, thank you, for not judging, all of you, (except one):) I'm not one to lay down in defeat, I try to get help and answers, but this is so challenging. I haven't even spoken of the boys who won't talk to me because I'm a "whore." We've sat at restaurants and not spoken for the entire meal, each staring at his or her food and my partner telling them to have respect. Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh