Frustration with husband regarding abuse allegations
My husband emailed BM this week to arrange for SD11 to come for another day visit. BM couldn't help but be an asshole by saying, "You must feel like a big tough man for getting away with abusing your daughter!!!! I don't care what anyone else says, SD will always know what you did to her and she will always hate you for it!!! If I ever have to hire and pay a lawyer again because of something you've done I will personally charge you!!!""
DH had also asked BM meet at a different spot so that they would equally share the driving, given that he was being flexible with visitation. But of course she delcined, saying, "I always follow the court order."
After reading the email, my husband felt pretty defeated. He called me and we discussed how BM is always going to stick to her story regardless of what anyone else tells her. He said he just wanted to go radio silent because it isn't worth dealing with her anymore.
But when I got home from work that day, he had changed his tune and was saying he might ask BM if SD can come for an overnight next week. My jaw dropped and I asked him if he fell and bumped his head on something. This is a woman who will not retract her allegations even after THREE independent third parties couldn't corroborate them. She's continuing to alienate SD and keeps threatening to make more trouble for us. THIS DOES NOT MAKE ME FEEL GOOD ABOUT HAVING THIS CHILD IN OUR HOME, period.
I told him that when SD turns 12 next year, I can guarantee BM will be hauling her into a court room to have her testify regarding her visitation preferences. It is so unfortunate, but if he's not willing to hire a lawyer now and fight this nonsense, then he needs to back off and just take a more casual approach to SD's visits. If he doesn't insist on seeing SD then BM won't have as much of a reason to make trouble for us. (Although as I was typing this, I realized if we do this she'll probably drag him back to court saying that he's not involved ENOUGH and that it's somehow harmed SD.)
Gah. This is never ending. I don't know at what point he will realize he has to grow a pair and do SOMETHING about this situation rather than just waiting to "see what happens".
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Totally agree. NO overnights
Totally agree. NO overnights until dh's name and your home as a whole is cleared AND on record in court.
JMO
Seriously, this child should
Seriously, this child should NOT NOT NOT be in your home right now! Your husband is putting himself and you at risk- possibly of losing your other children- because of this crazy BM and her pawn. They're pulling his strings like he's a marionette, and he's allowing it to continue.
If he's going to have her in the home, make sure you and your kids are gone for the duration.I have a feeling the s&it hasn't even begun to hit the fan with this one.
Please, please protect yourself and your children. This crazy-ass girl is NOT worth it. If your DH absolutely must see her (and I can't fault him - she is his daughter, warts and all), it needs to be in a public place with witnesses.
Thanks for the advice. I'm
Thanks for the advice. I'm absolutely concerned about her visiting at all, not just for overnights. BM just keeps proving over and over again that she is irrational and will do anything to make trouble for us. My husband is off for a few days next week so he will be at home with our kids. He's hoping that SD can come for one of those days, but I'm against it because I don't want SD around my kids if I'm not there, plus I don't want them in a vehicle for 2 hours. I told him it's just easier if she comes next weekend. I plan on taking my kids and leaving the house before he gets home with SD if he hasn't bothered to do anything about this situation by then.
If it's allegations and
If it's allegations and accusations you're worried about, just having the kid not spent overnights isn't going to stop the potential threat.
Anything, real , imagined and/or made-up flat out fake can happen at 2pm as well as 2am.
If the visit is 'dangerous', the time being day or night and the length of visit being a day visit for a few hours or an entire 48hrs including sleeping over isn't going to make one bit of difference.
Pretending otherwise, is silly.
Oh for sure. I'm concerned
Oh for sure. I realize I didn't make it clear that I'm concerned about her being in our home, period, not just for overnights. That's why I typed that one sentence in all capital letters. Claims can be made about anything, day or night.
My issue with my husband asking for an overnight was about his flip-flopping from one end of the spectrum to the other in such a short period of time. He needs to decide what he wants and then act accordingly. This middle of the road territoy is dangerous and it's not getting us anywhere. I would prefer that he just sees her at a public location without the rest of us there but he won't go for it. I suspect it's because it would be awkward and it would actually require him to put in some effort with his child. If she comes to our house, then he can pawn her off on DD7. Either way, I will be taking my kids and leaving the house before he gets back with SD next time she comes if he hasn't done something (taken BM back to court, etc.) prior to that.
Face it, this is who he is.
Face it, this is who he is. He's not going to suddenly grow a pair and stand up to BM or his SD. Any progress he's made in this situation has been because of your actions or your suggestions, and he doesn't follow through on what he says he's going to do. You are just going to drive yourself nuts trying to get him to stand up for himself.
At this point, if he insists on having visits in your home, I'd just protect myself and my kids. Put cameras up. I can't decide whether it would be better for you to leave with the kids or to stay and be a witness for DH. Since your DH doesn't actually interact with his daughter much, but relies on you and the other kids to do so, the visits might end sooner if you remove yourself from the picture when she's there.
Very excellent points. Thanks
Very excellent points. Thanks for acknowledging that the progress has been because of my involvement - he doesn't see it that way but it's nice to see someone else does.
I think you're right about removing myself and my kids. My sister made the same prediction - if the kids and I aren't there then it doesn't give him the buffer he needs and the visits will end. I do have a slight inclination to stay to be a witness for my husband, mainly because if BM makes more allegations against him it could affect our kids.
I get he wants to see his
I get he wants to see his daughter but why is he against being with her in public? Why subject you all to more BS......it doesn't have to be a permanent thing. He can do this until this issue gets resolved but until than I agree with you I don't think having her home for overnights is a good idea. There's no telling what drama will pop off next with this dysfunction.
Because it would require more
Because it would require more effort on his part. It's easier for him if she comes to our house because the girls just go downstairs together and play. He doesn't have to come up with something to do, plus then the visits can be longer. He doesn't see the point in only seeing her for a few hours in public given how much driving is involved. I totally agree with your assessment.
I'm sorry to hear that the BM
I'm sorry to hear that the BM is still on your case about this. She is so out of order and seems to get away with it but if your DH keeps sucking up to them (BM and SD) then it is never going to end.
I would not want my daughter or myself to be around that SD EVER AGAIN. Unless she admits to the therapist that it did not happen in the ways she and BM have described. BM wasn't even there so SD knows what she is doing and BM is using it to cause no end of trouble because she is pure evil.
I get the impression that your DH is actually putting his SD and BM before you and your daughter and your marriage. When is he going to see the light? BM won't allow him to see his daughter until she is happy that it has broken him and his marriage.
Another thing is that my
Another thing is that my husband won't have a discussion with SD about this. The therapist told us we can't talk to SD about anything (which is horrible advice) and she also won't let my husband have an appointment with SD so that they can work things out. So all SD has heard since April 1st is BM's interpretation of what happened. If this was MY child, you can bet your @ss I'd be having a discussion with her and giving her my perspective on the situation. I don't care what anyone else says. My husband is so afraid that he will drive SD away if he does this though, but I'm not sure how things can get any worse. My sister even offered to facilitate/mediate the discussion because SD loves her and would listen to her.
You're right, he's putting them before us. And for what? He's not putting in any effort to repair his relationship with SD, yet he claims he still wants a relationship with her. Actions speak louder than words. He'll get upset about this whole thing from time to time and he wants sympathy from me, but I have a hard time giving it to him becaues of all the flip-flopping he's done. I get that this situation is difficult but I've accomplished more than he has just by doing a few little things here and there. I want him choose which end of the spectrum he wants to be on - either hire a lawyer and go after BM or just give up. We can't do this "wait and see" anymore because it means we're sitting ducks until BM decides to make more trouble.
Binky103~ I commend your
Binky103~ I commend your commitment to helping H and I agree with you 100%. With that being said you have to look out for you and yours even if he's not willing to do it. By that I mean do not invest too much energy into this chaos because its draining and robs the life out of you.
If he wants to go with the "wait and see" route than let him. Do not give him any sympathy. Be as supportive as you can but know that its out of your hands. If he's not willing to put forth the effort than why should you? He's afraid of losing SD but not realizing that he can potentially lose you in the process.
Thanks. I keep coming to this
Thanks. I keep coming to this realization, but then I end up involved again because my husband will ask me what I think of something and I end up frustrated with his idiocy and lack of awareness. If I tell him that I'm taking the kids and leaving when SD visits, he gets angry and tries to play the victim..."I JUST WANT TO SEE MY DAUGHTER."
I agree I need to remove myself but it's easier said than done. I definitely have issues with wanting to control situations like these. I need to really try to just not think about it and just tell him to do whatever he wants when he asks my opinion on something.
How does you leaving with
How does you leaving with your kids when she visits turn into "i just want to see my daughter". Fine, YOU see her. But that doesn't mean YOU have to.
It’s because he wants to use
It’s because he wants to use DD7 as a buffer between him and SD. He doesn’t have to put in a much effort if SD just comes to our house. If I say I’m taking the kids and leaving while SD is there, he gets all passive aggressive and says “fine then I’ll just cancel the visit because it’s easier for you”. So then he blames ME for not having a visit with SD. He plus the victim and tries to gaslight me.
Him: “Fine then I’ll just
Him: “Fine then I’ll just cancel the visit because it’s easier for you”
You: "It appears to be easier for you to endanger the safety of the rest of the children in this household."
You (optional): "Cancelling the visit would be your CHOICE because you don't want to entertain your child by yourself. Until the false abuse allegation is disproven, I will take the children and leave this house every time SD comes over. Period."
Refuse to argue further.
What Steppedout said ^^. And
What Steppedout said ^^. And OP to add, you should stop telling your DH you're going to leave when SD comes. You already know he is going to use manipulation "I just want to....". And he knows that's what it takes to get you to cave. I would just act on it. I know from experience, that you want to help your DH and in doing that you are trying to get him to do things your way and by the way I agree with the things you are saying. He will not until you start with ACTIONS. Don't be there and more then likely he will just start showing up with her without telling you, at that point just politely leave with your kids.
I will say again, I've been there (except the accusations) and learned that you have to completely disengage from this whole mess. It will be a battle at first between your DH and you especially because he thinks you should be "supporting " his relationship with his DD. And you are supporting his relationship you're just protecting your kids, peace and sanity.
ETA: "He plus the victim and tries to gaslight me". He's only doing what you allow him to do. You can simply state the facts, calmly, one last time and walk away or not but you cannot keep allowing him to make you second guess yourself and give in to his manipulations.
SD has only been to our home
SD has only been to our home once since this mess started. I would’ve taken my kids and gone without telling him, but he told DD7 that SD was coming ahead of time, so she got excited and wanted to go along to pick her up. I did take my DS and left for most of the day but I didn’t want to disappoint DD so I let her stay. I’ve already told DH if there is another visit, he is NOT to tell DD ahead of time, and I will just leave without telling him when he goes to get SD.
Thanks for the great advice and support.
I understand
He will get angry but he is still seeing his daughter. I can assure you that he will get over it. He wants his cake and eat it too. He wants the "easy" visit with SD. The one that he doesn't have to do anything.
My DH kept trying to think of excuses to bring SD back to our house. I refused. He was meeting her in public due to abuse aligations by BM and SD. It has been 4 years now since she has been in my home. She wasn't coming in the beginning because I wasn't going to put myself in a position to be turned into child services. I am 99.9% sure that SD would have stated that I did something to her. Now she doesn't come because of her behavior.
I wasn't going to deny DH the visitation with his daughter. I wasn't going to put myself or my Bkids in harms way no matter how pissy DH became. If I allowed SD back in my house at that time, BM and SD would have control over my household. We would have had to walk on eggshells, kiss BM's butt, and schedule visits when it was convenient for BM not for us. I wasn't going to do that.
Stand your ground. Your dh can bring his daughter to his house for an overnight visit. You can take your kids for an overnight visit during that time. You can tell him that it isn't forever, it is just until things settle down. You decide when you want to be there with your kids.
That’s exactly what my
That’s exactly what my husband wants - to be able to pawn SD off on DD and not put in any effort to develop his relationship with SD. It’s actually pretty pathetic.
Thanks for telling your story. It makes me feel better about how I feel and what I think I need to do to protect myself and my kids.
He's actually ACCELERATING
the PASout. Let's just hope he doesn't blame YOU for it which is a huge temptation for these men whose balls are still in the BM's gucci satchel. But, of course, have NO trouble standing up to SM "I'm not going to be taken advantage of again by ANY woman---except for BM and SD" (TM)
I believe your DH won't be happy until he is being threatened with jail time for "abusing" SD.
I'm with the other posters. Protect yourself and your children. Nanny cams up and you remove yourself and your children from the situation so WHEN (not if) the BM calls in CPS stating that YOU physicall/sexually abused or winked at DH abusing SD, then they can't take YOUR children away from you either. This exact scenario has played out countless times when you have a vindictive BM in your midst. We lived through the phoney CPS accusations and boy it was awful. I was only grateful that I didn't have my bios in the household at that time and that they were grown and away from this rotten situation.
Thanks so much.
Thanks so much.
The therapist told us we can
The therapist told us we can't talk to SD about anything (which is horrible advice) and she also won't let my husband have an appointment with SD so that they can work things out.
Unless it goes against a court order or something, screw what the therapist says, she's not the boss. If BM can talk to SD about the alleged abuse and convince her that it's real, your husband can certainly talk to her about the fact that the abuse didn't happen. I'd be tempted to record it.
What therapist would NOT want to get this worked out for their patient? So, therapist wants the child to continue to be convinced that she's been abused and have negative feelings towards her father? Is this therapist a friend of BM's or what?
At one point, wasn't your DH willing to walk away, as long as BM was pulling this "he abused her" bullshit? Maybe he should re-visit that line of thinking, because bringing SD to your home, without any witnesses, is asking for trouble. BM is obviously not backing down and will surely cause more trouble. Real trouble, for your whole family. Its very risky, all for awkward visits with a girl that he barely talks to when she's there.
I know people will disagree with me (and that's fine) but there are times when it's best to walk away. At least, until he figures out a way to fight this.
When my SD was 15 (older than your SD, I know) she started a fight with my DH, which was very uncharacteristic of her. She tried to get him to hit her, which he didn't but the whole weekend turned to crap. She told us what her mom had told her (lies), we told her the truth (which she didn't believe), it was not fun.
After DH came back from taking her home (I must have gone with him), there was a message on the answering machine from BM, saying that SD would not be coming over anymore. DH did not even call her back. He wasn't going to fight with her about it and quite frankly, he knew they were trying to set him up for a Family Services visit, if not a criminal case, and he just wasn't going to do it.
I know my SD was a little older but still, the BM in your life is just waiting for the opportunity to use her daughter to screw your husband's world.
I totally agree with you. The
I totally agree with you. The therapist is absolutely terrible. I asked her how we’re going to resolve anything and she said my husband meeting with her and SD isn’t part of her “process” at this time. I’m considering filing a formal complaint with the governing body that oversees her practice, but my husband won’t give me any of the emails she sent him (I need them to show how inconsistent she has been). He’s so afraid things will somehow get worse if I file a complaint.
I agree - if this was my own child being turned against me I’d be talking to her about it. I don’t care what some hack therapist says, but my husband is afraid of everyone involved.
I know lots of people here don’t agree with walking away but we’re almost out of options. It’s so dangerous for us and our kids for this to continue. Thanks so much for the support and for sharing your story.
Find another therapist? Maybe
Find another therapist? Maybe your dh should ask SD if she would consider seeing someone neutral together to rebuild some trust and so that she feels more 'comfortable' BM would hate it of course and fight it. Sounds like this 'therapist' is in her pocket anyway. It would show that she is an alienators and not helping the situation if she refused. Something to tick into his evidence against her.