I don't have a good feeling about this
BM emailed my fiance last night at 9:30 to inform him of their first Family Based Therapy appointment together at her place today. Here's her little love note:
BF,
On Tuesday, February 13, the family therapists will be coming here to meet with you, SD and me. They arrive at 6:00 P.M. and stay for an hour. I suggest that you come to the apartment to work with SD on school work and then have dinner before 6:00 P.M. - let's say 5:30 P.M. Is it possible for you to arrive earlier than 5:30 P.M.? Would 4:30 P.M. be possible? -BM
Now, first of all, I know she didn't just find out about this appointment at 9:30pm the night before. It's just another way for her to wield the maximum amount of control over him and our household by waiting to tell him. Second of all, she knows he has a full-time job and rearranging the set time for their weekly dinner at the last moment causes hardship for his employer. I guess she wouldn't think like that since she hasn't held down a job in so many years. Anyway, these are just the typical minor annoyances that I try not to let bother me. Not a big deal.
What actually bothers me and I do find to be a big deal is the fact that Family Based Therapy has not been directly in contact with my fiance, they have not scheduled an appointment in our home with the rest of the family (ie. me and our child together) and they have given BM control over everything. Whenever BM lists all of the people to be involved like that, it is her way of saying "Caitlin is NOT invited." At least this time she didn't go on to say this appointment is "for SD and HER PARENTS: the people who have been with her since the beginning of time." That's a quote from a prior email excluding me from SD's 10th birthday lunch. Ain't she lovely? Anyway, the point is, this is not how it should be! I am quite disappointed in Family Based Therapy so far - I hope that my fiance will set things straight tonight. EVERYONE involved except BM agrees that I should be a part of this. I can't believe they're allowing this.
One more thing that's notable about all this: BM had never allowed my fiance access to their apartment in the 4 years they'd been separated. SD would beg and beg to invite him in, to show him her room and her things, but BM adamently refused. When SD attempted suicide and my fiance went over there with the psychiatrist, she made them meet downstairs in the lobby, rather than have them upstairs to their apartment. She disappeared for a few hours, presumably to clean up (according to SD, the place is in a constant state of disaster) and then allowed him to stay the night on the floor of SD's room. It was the first time he had ever been allowed in their place. Now she's inviting him up to a "family dinner" on their Daddy/Daughter night to show how nicey nicey she is to the Family Based Therapy team?! WTF? :?
(Sigh) I just needed to get that off my chest.
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Comments
When does the manipulation end??
It's so retarded. These therapist are supposed to be working with the family. Hello! the family dynamics have changed!!!!!!!!! It's not like you been his girlfriend for a month. There are now half-siblings, step siblings, step parents, step families.
I swear some of these therapist want to keep things screwed up so THEY have a reason to exsist.
And - family dinner - Aaaaahhhhh NNaaa.
Speak your mind and hang in there. Jo
RE: it's not like I've been his girlfriend for a month
I know!! BM paints this picture that I am some sort of mistress because they are technically still married. She doesn't mention that they separated 4 years ago, that she filed for divorce shortly thereafter, that she refuses to close the divorce just to keep her claws in him and prevent us from legitimizing our relationship. She is so divorced from reality!! (Pun intended!) The truth is, she couldn't wait to get rid of him until I stepped into the picture. Then suddenly he was "her husband" again! Ew!
I've been a part of this family for 2 1/2 years. SD and I are forever linked because not only am I her father's partner, but I am also the mother of her little siblings. I thought the days of BM excluding me were coming to an end because these therapists would not stand for it. I guess I thought wrong?
I don't know....
but maybe it's different for each state, but I had a friend a few years back that was 'trying' to get 'officially divorced' from his ex, who to would refuse to 'sign' the paperwork, etc etc.
When I met him, he had been dating and living with his 'real wife' in my opinion, and still was having a hard time getting the ex to sign the divorce work. She just refused for whatever reasons and he tried and tried. But eventually, he just went to a hearing, she didn't show up or something like that, and the judge granted him a divorce anyway without her signature. I can't remember the exact thing the judge used or said, but the very next month... he and his 'girlfriend' got married. Have you ever talked to an attorney about what you can do without her signature? There has to be something you can do.
Man has the intelligence to change his life,
Sometimes, he just fails to use it...
RE:
I was wondering this myself. BM in our situation would tell BF "go ahead and file for divorce, I'll never sign the papers". His attorney said that if it came down to it, we could get around that. Have you asked if there are any options for divorcing her without her signature? She can't just force him to stay married to her forever, that's not how it works.
*~So sayeth Nymh~*
RE: the "real wife"
StepMom, I like that "real wife" comment. I am so with you on that! We are married in every sense except for the legal part.
Our souls married long ago and we will one day make it official, hopefully sooner rather than later!
Nymh, you're right that she can't just force him to stay married to her forever. The only reason she's been successful at it thus far is $$$ (or lack thereof). If we could have afforded to retain a lawyer from the get-go, we'd be married by now. Let me explain:
In our state, after 2 years of separation (and they have twice as much!) that one party can divorce the other without his/her signature. So he's been trying to do that on his own (the free way) ever since the 2-year mark, only to be turned away or ignored completely because of some missed signature or incorrect filing procedure or other such nonsense. Now, a lawyer would get around all that in about 5 minutes, but BF doesn't know the ins and outs of the system. He followed the instructions from the website to the letter, but we have just been really down on our luck! We are just baffled as to why it hasn't worked. The first time he tried to file, they just plain lost his paperwork! We were told "in 8-10 weeks, you should receive your final divorce decree." After 12 weeks, he finally got someone on the phone and they had no record of him filing at all! Grr!
So, this year I'm getting a sizeable tax refund and even though I would love to use it to pay off the renovations we did last year so I can avoid the interest, we're going to use all or part of it to get a lawyer and end this for good! Hooray! Then I really will get to be the real wife - no quotation marks necessary!
what is she up to ?
Maybe she has been bothered by the fact that previous apt. that involved you went so well for you and your dh and sd, and feels the need to present a good front in her home. Does the therapy team know about the last four years of not being allowed in this women's home? The power of the bm bullshi! never ceases to amaze, stick together and let's hope your dh is able to stand up for your family. I am a Canadian member and just recently a family court in Ontario ruled that if a step parent has been involved with the child for an extended period of time, and is involved in a healthy relationship with the bio parent they are now to be part of all family court, therapy and mediations etc..essentially stepparents are now granted legal custody under the law. I should note that in this case it was two lesbians moms trying for custody with bf...but straight or gay I think it is good news for us....Hoor ray for that judge, too bad more wouldn't take notice and save our skids and us from a lot of crap.....Did I suggest perhaps your dh should be waiting in the lobby at 6pm for the therapist, and not reply to bm besides will be there? Good Luck
RE: BM bothered by my involvement
You said it: she is bothered by the fact that when I am involved, the psychiatrists see me as a stable, loving individual with SD's best interests in mind and a healthy partnership with her ex. They see her as a mentally unstable, jealous, vindictive individual who uses her child as a weapon against her ex. (They see that regardless of whether I'm involved or not, but she certainly doesn't want me "making her look bad" by comparison.)
I hope that my fiance will set things straight tonight. I have a feeling that he will just try not to rock the boat with [gasp!] the TRUTH.
I do not trust this woman!!!
I do not trust this woman!!! She's setting the stage for the next manipulation...... For some reason, I thought the family therapy was to occur at 'each families' house. How can a therapist analyze a situation (one big happy family eating dinner together)when that doesn't happen in real life...SD's life. It's artificial!!! It doesn't make sense to me..... but maybe I've misunderstaood what was supposed to happen...which was assessments in each home.
Can your hubby call the therapist directly? Just to confirm what's really supposed to happen. I wouldn't trust ANY SHRED of information that comes out of BM's mouth!!! I'd want to go right to the source for all my information to protect myself....from whatever she's trying to set-up.
She's setting SOMETHING UP....I can't figure out quite where she's going with this...but this 'happy family' setup is leading to something. And the fact that you guys seem to be 'out of the loop' all of a sudden....very worrysome.
How imparitive is it that your finiacee go to BM's house tomoorw......especially if he wasn't allowed to go there for 4 years...can he say he's been banned for many years and just doesn't feel comfortable meeting at that location. Or will that just make him look bad?
Can he 'get a flat' on the way home from work or something?
This just really smells fishy!!!!! ANd she knows she's at risk of losing custody.....she'll get desperate and try ANYTHING....pull any stunt she can think of....to set him up and make sure he looks bad.
You can't help a flat!!!!
Good Luck.
I'm very worried about what she has up her sleeve!!!!
RE: I do not trust this woman!!!
Me neither!! She is definitely setting up some kind of artificial situation to be evaluated by these therapists. How are they supposed to get an accurate idea of what's going on if she's presenting some fake happy family? Yeah, for some reason I thought that the family therapy was to occur at each house separately too - maybe because that's what they told us! You didn't misunderstand, lovin-life. BM twisted this all around and my fiance had no say in it. She presented it to him as a fait accompli late last night and he's just supposed to go along with it.
I don't know how this happened, but my fiance doesn't have the contact info for the Family Based therapists that were assigned to our case. (He's getting it tonight, that's for sure!) Bless him, he's a wonderful man, but he's not very proactive about things sometimes. He should have been in touch with them from the very beginning. I don't know how these therapists let this happen! They've only been in contact with BM and I'm just infuriated that they've kept him out of the loop until now. I can only hope that the reason for this is that they know that BM is the one that needs all the therapy, not him!
He is going to go tonight. I think if she's going to try to make him look bad, she'd have a better chance at succeeding if he weren't there. Besides, he takes the train to their place - I don't think a train can get a flat?
I am definitely worried what she has up her sleeve, but it's nothing we can't handle!! I'll keep you posted...
Don't you just wish you
Don't you just wish you could put a microphone in his ear, listen in on the entire conversation and coach him on what to say and ask??
I mean, our men are wonderful, like you say, but they are always scared to ruffle BM's feathers. Someone needs to put her in her place for a change! Stand up to her! YOU are capable of doing this...not always the case with our men.
Since you can't be there, I would sit down with BF tonight and make a list of all of the things he needs to mention tomorrow night. I would also try my hardest to convince him that there is absolutely NO need for him to arrive early - what for? To have a nice little family dinner and put on a huge front to the FBT?? He doesn't normally go over there for dinner, so why do it now? The goal of all of this is to help the child, not for BF & BM to work together and demonstrate a false relationship. Talk about confusing poor SD even more!
I'm sorry for you especially, because you seem to be the only one who sees straight through this freak, yet you are the one who gets pushed further and further out of the picture. Hang in there and keep supporting BF and SD like you do - it will pay off eventually!
RE: microphone in his ear
Oh, I love it! Sometimes I do wish I could help him out by coaching him in his ear like that, because he just won't stand up to her in these situations. I don't know, maybe his way is better. If we ruffle her feathers, it's really hard on SD and none of us want that. But we also don't want her running the show! It's not right! Blech.
And sorry I wasn't clear. The appointment is tonight, not tomorrow. And tonight is the normal Daddy/Daughter dinner night when he picks her up and they eat and do homework together at the bookstore cafe. Instead, BM is saying for them to have dinner at the apartment and I don't even know why she wants him to come early. I assume it's to help SD with her homework, but she could've done that from 3:00 when SD gets home until 5:30 when my fiance gets there. I guess she's trying to be "nice" by "letting" him have an extra hour with SD? I think it's to show FBT how "generous" she is with visitation because her track record shows that she continuously denies visitation. This way, if he brings that up she can say "see? I gave you an extra hour on February 13!"
Update
Well after all that, Family Based Therapy cancelled the appointment because of the weather. (Snow - the roads are getting worse and worse.) BM tried to change Daddy/Daughter dinner to tomorrow night - which just so happens to be Valentine's Day and he will be spending it with BM over MY DEAD BODY - so he said no, that he would take the train, snow or no snow, and have their regularly scheduled weekly dinner tonight.
She's still inviting him for dinner there, so he's going even though he'd rather eat out of a garbage can. Quick poll: do you think it's appropriate for him to go there for dinner? My first reaction was "what a horrible mixed message to send to SD! They're not together anymore! Let's stop with this fantasy!" But then I tried to think of it in a different light. In 4 years of separation, they have NOT been able to communicate. At ALL. She has made no effort to co-parent, she's elusive and secretive, she keeps important information from him, it's all in all BAD. Maybe by having an occasional dinner over there, they can start to communicate and co-parent better for SD. Maybe he won't be kept in the dark so much. Could this possibly be a GOOD thing?
Your thoughts?
Just MY opinion...
I don't think it is approriate to go there for dinner - especially considering the situation with SD. I think it just gives SD false hopes and BM encourages it because in her sick & twisted head, she probably believes that they are a still a nice little family.
HELL HELL NOOOOO!
I'm sorry, but your bf has to buckle his ass down and just tell this women NO. This is sooo inappropriate, and the reason she keeps going on and on is because he's feeding into her, whole kit-n-caboodle.
No, there is no reason for him to go have dinner on his time at BM's house... no, take SD out to dinner- don't invite BM.
But on the other hand, what I see is she's twisting it around now, so that way, all this time, she's refused to cooperate, and here she has the perfect opportunity to display that, see it's not me... he refused to engage with me... see it's not me... it's him.
You know what I think I would do... tell BM, okay, but instead, how about if "I" (BF) meet you at such and such, and then YOU (Caitlyn) also join them, with the kids. It's time that if BF is going to get involved with her, you're involved too- period. If BM so desperately needs BF to come, then she gets the whole kit-n-caboodle family. Period. If she makes a scene, she makes a scene, let her storm off with SD, let her spew, whatever but you guys just sit tight, do not budge EVER. It's time to make a stand of family unity. It's either all or none.
Man has the intelligence to change his life,
Sometimes, he just fails to use it...
You're right
She can only exclude me if we allow her to. When she pulls this crap, we'll make sure that I am included along with her. When she throws a fit, we'll keep record of it and use it to our advantage later.
Oh, it just gets so ugly! I hope my baby doesn't come out with birth defects because of the stress during this pregnancy! I swear!
Quick Poll
I don't know. It's too much pressure!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gut says NO!!!!!
Plus, if has to go tomorrow anyway, why doesn't he not go tonight. The weather is bad, the train can run late, God forbid he can't get home with the bad weather. YIKES!!!!!!!!
These woman is up to something. I don't like the timing of her offer.
JO
No, he's not going tomorrow
He's going to be with ME tomorrow. We are going to celebrate Valentine's Day, even if it's just in our pj's in front of a movie while our baby sleeps in the next room.
As for tonight - yes, the train will probably be delayed and no, he won't be getting home tonight (he's just going to stay with friends down the street from BM) but he really wants to stick to the court-ordered schedule. I agree. If we jump every time BM changes plans at the last minute, it just gives her permission to keep doing it.
As for BM being up to something - of course she is! We'll find out what it is soon enough.
what's wrong with McDonald's?
NO WAY is dinner at her house after four years a good thing...as said before by other's and I agree I wouldn't trust this woman! Why is she suddenly looking for a quiet dinner with them? She is up to something, and I think your dh would be far better off meeting at a public restaurant. When parents are separated I don't see why especially at this stage of her game that daddy daughter dinner should include mommy too. Maybe your dh should request you be invited too if bm has to be there for his dinner with his daughter.
McDonald's vs BM's
Well, all of your reactions go along with what my gut was saying in the beginning. I think we're going to have to nip this Daddy/Daughter+Mommy dinner thing in the bud. The bookstore cafe worked just fine for many years, why should it change now?
I concur
I think I mentioned somewhere that my hubby (who works two hours away in another state, near where his kids live) goes to the exes house "every week" to hang out with his kids in HER house. And, the truth is I get ill every week for those lousy two hours that he's there. He likes it cause he sees his kids in their "real, natural environment." DUH! No, he sees the kids in his ex wifes home....And dinner, YES they all go out for everyone's birthday (I can't always go cause sometimes it falls during the week & I have a kid and a job in my state!) and they even vacationed at the same spot (different hotels), pre-me! Don't start that Caitlin. Unless you are going to be allowed to hang out in the house with them, or attend the dinners with them, you won't feel right. And, yes I am all for Daddy/Daughter or Daddy/Son time but not on the exes turf! Not with the ex without me, and not in the old family home. Going out is the right thing to do. She's not a threat to my marriage but it just doesn't feel right in my soul. (PS The kids are teens - and he can see them on weekends too at our house but he leaves it up to them. If they come, they come, if they don't, they don't have to....Gosh, I just wanted normalcy...every other weekend, set in stone!) But from reading these boards I guess there is no "norm." PS In your case, your DH should be able to go in the apt to see his kids room though! She sounds like a real winner, just trying to look good for the therapist. Hang in there!
Does not sound good.
I agree with most that I think she is up to something. Why all of the sudden she want to be nice. And if it is really going to be a family dinner shouldn't you be there? Do you have a good relationship with SD. If you do ,then you should be there. I think she is doing this to get to you. She does not want to let go of her ex now that you are in the picture and is doing what every she can to to push you away. Good luck and keep us updated!
RE: relationship with SD
SD and I have a wonderful relationship, despite all that BM does to sabotage it. She loves it when I come see her at their weekly dinners. I used to go to every Daddy/Daughter dinner (with our daughter as well) and we had the best time! In fact, SD preferred that I help her with her homework, rather than Dad, because I was "better at it"!
When SD started middle school, her homework load got really strenuous and the distraction of wanting to play with her baby sister was really taking away from her getting her work done. It became really stressful for her, so we stopped coming except for during school breaks or when she knows she doesn't have homework. I might add that it's also tough on me and the little one because my job is really far away so I have a poor hungry little girl for close to an hour and a half in the car to get there. Plus, her bedtime is between 7pm and 8pm and we don't get home until almost 9pm when we go to Daddy/Daughter dinner, so that factors in as well.
That said, we will justify any minor hardship to do the right thing. When BM insists on butting in on Daddy/Daughter dinner to make it fakey "family dinner", well then we'll be there too because WE'RE family!
ummm...
I'm sorry, but I haven't read everybody's post yet but I wanted to get this out there... sorry if I double post someone else's suggestion... I'll be 'catching up' shortly... lol.
What bothers me right off the bat is this is Family Based Therapy that is suppose to come into both homes and evaluate both homes, right? Why is it necessary for BF to attend HER home on HER time?!?!? He is not part of HER equation in her daily living environment. (Yes, even though in her mind she still thinks he is...)
I think I would approach this as, that is HER scheduled time... not yours. They scheduled the time with HER... not BF. If you do not attend HER scheduled appointments, they will come visit you, because they have to assess BF too, and if he's not there to assess, they obviously will contact him where HE lives. Having BF come and 'join' them is only feeding into BM's delusions of them co-existing. I think I would approach this as separate entities... not BF venturing back and forth, back and forth... I think this is really a main issue that needs to be addressed. This woman needs to learn how to operate ALONE.
The other thing that I would do is call the therapist, or whoever is in 'charge' and set up your own appointment? If you show initiative to resolve, maybe that will be better for you guys? It could also be that they seriously want to evaluate BM because she is the main source of 'harm'? They may call you when they have completed their first appointment with BM. But what I would do is just call up the office and just ask them a few simple questions, see if they can clarify what you can expect. Ask them if there is anything you can do to assist them. Be proactive, rather than reactive.
And the only explanation that BM is 'opening the door' to BF is because she is trying to show and prove that 'she's not resistive' to BF in view of the therapists. She's playing a game, trying to use the system to her advantage. She probably thinks that if she 'let's him in' that will show favor for her, since it will look like 'I'm trying to be open with him, but he's just not willing to cooperate with me?'
I'd use caution, and I would stick to public locations when meeting BM... make an excuse to find a location to meet 'half way' whenever possible. Librarys are great places to meet for those that have a tendency to get loud and out of control, because you have to keep your voice low, remain quiet and calm within a library at all times and it's a public neutral territory.
Man has the intelligence to change his life,
Sometimes, he just fails to use it...
P.S... now that I've read all the posts... apparently my thoughts are right on target with the rest! LOL. But I did have a couple of other things to mention after reading everything so I'm adding...
BIOMOM had a good point about BM's back against the wall and using you as her perpetual punching bag. It gets to you, and rightful so. She's fueling the fire the only way she knows how, and that's through you. I whole heartedly agree with BIOMOM on this issue. As much as I totally think that you should and utterly need to be involved with this, perhaps we need to take a step back for a moment. If you're not in the picture, and bothered by this, she won't push so hard to erase you from the picture, right? And yes, it eats away at you, which is the intent and motive behind this manipulation. So... what if we reversed this? Use reverse psychology?
Now, humor me, but what would happen if BF actually said something to BM such as... No, Caitlyn won't be there. I know how much you do not like Caitlyn. I'm not sure why you do not like Caitlyn. What if he used her as a sounding board? What if he actually validated her feelings?
Don't get me wrong, I totally do not agree with not including you, but what if we have to step back for a moment and reassess this? Would BM act as bad? Truthfully?
I still think that BF should not condone or continue her delusions of the 'happy-go-lucky' fake family that she wants to portray. I really think it's time that he buckle down and say, I'm sorry, but that is your time with the therapists, I don't live in your home, they didn't call me to set the appointment, they called you. I'll have my turn. And then, make a point to be cooperative to meet with her... at a public location if she so assists that he has to be there too. Then, not only are you protecting yourself, because there will be 'witnesses' but her as well.
I think you may have to approach this as feeding positive solutions to her... things that 'benefit' her, rather than are a disadvantage to her. This may be a little difficult to do, but you may have to really focus on the pros vs cons here during this time- and I can tell you one con right off the bat... BM is a pro at being a con.
FBT in BOTH homes! Exactly!
This whole setup is so suspicious to me. Why would he go to the Family Based Therapy session in THEIR home? Why wouldn't FBT call him to set something up in OUR home? It's not right at all and it doesn't sit well with us.
What I suspect happened is that BM scheduled the appointment during Daddy/Daughter time (perhaps even unbeknownst to FBT?) and then "invited" him to have Daddy/Daughter dinner in their home before the appointment so she could present this false picture of perfect co-parenting and cooperation. I have a feeling that FBT hasn't contacted my fiance yet because they're not ready (or don't feel the need) to meet with our side yet. I think (hope!) that BM is the mastermind behind it all and FBT would even be against the idea. We shall see.
My fiance has to somehow get the contact info for FBT - I guess through the clinic where SD was because they were the ones who ordered it in the first place. He needs to take the initiative and get back in the loop because I do not like that the only information he is receiving is through BM. Because like you said, she is a pro at being a con! (I love that, by the way! So clever!)
I will think about the reverse psychology you mentioned, but I fear that it will just fuel BM justifying herself in excluding me. I'm afraid she would turn it against us and say "See? Even he agrees that Caitlin should not be a part of things." And he'd be left there floundering, saying "no, no! I didn't say that!" I don't know though, what we've been doing hasn't exactly been working, so I guess it's worth a try! In fact, in recent months I've sort of been taking a step back just for my own sanity and healthy pregnancy and I'd say she's been a little more cooperative because she thinks she's "won" by keeping me out. She has called out of the blue for example to update my fiance on SD's progress whereas normally she is completely incommunicado. She even offered to drive him to the parent/teacher conference, but again, it's because she wants him to have no reason for me to be there. (He doesn't drive, if you didn't know that already.)
Anyway, I have officially reached the point of babbling and I really must get back to my day job! I've completed exactly 1.5 tasks today, I'd better hop to it!
Caitlin...
How did it go last night with daddy/daughter time?? I'm wondering if you got snowed in - I haven't seen you on today. Keep us posted!
Daddy/Daughter night went great!
He made it over there fine on the train. He trudged through the snow and he and SD happily did homework while BM mainly kept to herself. It was wholly uneventful. One weird thing (but I guess it's typical, given BM's proven history of erratic behavior) was that BM had originally invited him for dinner, but then told him she wasn't eating and that he needed to bring food for himself and SD. I asked him why they didn't just go out like usual in that case, and he said it was because BM insisted that SD not walk to the bookstore in the inclement weather. Whatever. SD loves the snow.
Anyway, the great news is that he got the Family Based Therapy phone number and he left them a message this afternoon! Hooray! He will no longer be left in the dark! I hope they get back to him soon. I'll keep you posted!
I was snowed in... with no internet!
I'm just trying to catch up with everything that was posted since Tuesday night when I was last able to check in. A lot of good points were made - I think I'd like to respond to them individually, so bear with me. It's going to make for a messy blog, I know!
OUR meeting with Family Based Therapy
Well, the FBT team got back to my fiance last night and they scheduled an appointment in OUR home for Thursday! SD won't be there, they just want to meet with us at first.
I feel better already! This is how it should be.