SS now suspects dad cheated with me
My boyfriend and I had our first date a few months after his wife of 19 years kicked him out. Three years later, we are still together, and living together, and his 13-year-old son has questions. He repeatedly asks for the timeline of our dating situation and point blank asks his dad whether dad and I got together before the marriage ended. (The answer is no.)
Whenever it comes up my boyfriend calmly explains that our relationship didn't start until after he'd moved out, that it was their mom who ended the marriage, that she asked him to leave, and that to this day he doesn't know why. (She would not provide an explanation or go to counseling.) He had to field similar questions from his oldest child, who's now 18.
For background, my boyfriend was loving and supportive in his marriage to the point of being spineless, and it was his wife who had multiple flirtations/dalliances with other men. She walked all over him during their marriage and though she didn't work, she ran the family into the ground financially with her inability to control her spending. My boyfriend never breathes a word of any of this to the kids because he doesn't want to bad-mouth their mom.
Is there something different my boyfriend should be doing to erase his son's doubts? It feels pretty crappy to be seen as the immoral party when we did nothing wrong, but most importantly this could by psychologically damaging for the child. His son doesn't know I know about these conversations, and I haven't said anything to him. My boyfriend and I both suspect it's the biomom who's fueling these innuendos. She's pretty unhappy and manipulative/passive-aggressive and has a history of emotional instability, and she has made repeated snide comments about me that indicate she is jealous. We both suspect that she now regrets having ended the marriage.
I've never dated anyone with kids, much less a bitter ex-wife, so I'm just not sure what to do.
^^^THIS! SD14 asked ME why
^^^THIS! SD14 asked ME why her parents split up over and over again. My answer to her was ALWAYS the same: "ask your parents, I had nothing to do with it and I didn't meet your dad until a year afterwards. Besides, it's none of my business". And she'd say "Mom told me she'd NEVER tell me why and she won't allow dad to and I KNOW you know why they broke up and I just want SOMEONE to tell me the truth". And again, I'd say "Ask your parents".
After she was told she couldn't do something she wanted to do, she ran to her mommy and told her mom that *I* told her that her mom caused their divorce! I NEVER said that, ever. So of course, BM gets on the phone cussing DH out saying "you need to control your girlfriend and be sure she's not telling OUR daughter things she shouldn't be" and of course he was clueless but knowing this came about 10 minutes after he told SD NO for the first time, he put 2 and 2 together and told her SD was lying.
Back to your story though: the kid needed answers, he got them. Period. I'd tell him to quit asking as the answer is not going to change!
I can see your perspective.
I can see your perspective. Thank you. At this point SS still seems to be in the phase of trying to fit puzzle pieces together. My BF did ask why it was being brought up again, but SS evaded the question. The timing is suspicious because SS's latest round of questioning came up in a phone call very soon after a huge blowup over money between BM and my BF. BM's MO tends to be to get back at my BF by trying to turn their kids against him, when she feels she has run out of other options.
My BF doesn't want to
My BF doesn't want to bad-mouth BM to the kids, and I agree with this. I grew up with divorced parents who hated each other and did nothing to hide it, and it was extremely painful. My BF doesn't think it's appropriate for the kids to be told that BM cheated, even if it's true, because how is that going to help the kids? It's only going to hurt them. That's why it's so baffling to realize BM is in all likelihood encouraging the kids to believe their dad cheated on her, just so she can feel like she has the upper hand or feel a sense of smugness for retaliating, or whatever her issue is. Because it's only hurting the kids and you would think BM would wake up and realize it.
Thanks for the advice. There
Thanks for the advice. There is one thing I am confused about though, I am not sure why it is a "shame" for a man to find love so quickly after a divorce ... moving a bit too quickly maybe, but shameful? I don't feel we have anything to be ashamed of. There was no cheating, no sneaking, nothing immoral that was done by my boyfriend and me. We didn't have our first date until he had been kicked out, told the marriage was over, and had been living in his own apartment for several months. Remember, BM is the one who cheated and lied and snuck around with other men during the marriage.
You seem to imply that Dad finding a new girlfriend harms the son's psychological development, and I am not sure I understand how. But perhaps I just do not understand adolescent development. BM has been with at least two men since the divorce that she's made a part of the kids' lives, including one boyfriend she started seeing around the same time my boyfriend and I started dating.
I don't even care what the BM thinks, and I know we have no control over her behavior. My main concern is the well-being of the kids and how we should handle SS's doubts and concerns.
I totally hear what you are
I totally hear what you are saying Cheri, and I'm not trying to paint myself as some kind of Mother Teresa. I guess it just seems a little extreme to me to put forth the idea that it's psychologically damaging to the son. The kids didn't know about me or meet me until 9 months after their mom had kicked their dad out of the house.
And, BM did start dating her first boyfriend before the divorce was final. This man had been part of the kids' lives as well. It just didn't work out with that boyfriend, and it doesn't seem to be working out with BM's second boyfriend either. I just don't understand how my boyfriend and I are being painted as the immoral ones and the child-damaging ones.
Thank you!! You are one of
Thank you!! You are one of the few commenters on this thread who seems to grasp what cheating actually means and doesn't mean. And, it sounds like you are handling things well with your kids.
Regardless of what BM did,
Regardless of what BM did, dad was dating while he was still married. To some, that's cheating. Obviously to you it's not. Only SS can determine whether it is or is not in his own mind.
I believe that dad finding a new gf while he's still married can be harmful to his son.
Divorce brings closure to a marriage. It isn't just the mom & dad who need to find closure to the end of an in-tact family. Kids need to find that closure as well. Apparently mom got it when she started sleeping with other men. Maybe dad got it when he realized what BM was doing.
SS didn't get the opportunity to find the closure to his in-tact family until after his dad was hooked up with a new woman. That can make things blurry.
You seem to use BM's actions to cushion & excuse what your bf did. Regardless of the men she's been with or when, dad made the choice to hook up before he was divorced.
SS isn't necessarily going to see it as "Mom did this so that makes it acceptable for dad to do this". More likely he's seeing it as "Mom said dad was sleeping with BP while they were still married".
I really believe that the best way to handle it is for your bf to handle it. I don't think this is something for you to get involved in. IMO, the next time it comes up your bf needs to simply say "What happened between your mom & me was between your mom & me. It's not for you to spend time trying to figure out or resolve. We are responsible for the choices we make. You are responsible for the choices you make." Leave it at that.
SS is not entitled to details about his parents relationship.
The issue here isn't really
The issue here isn't really BF and I dating before the divorce was final. BM did so, too. The issue is SS believing that I broke up the marriage, which is not what happened. The marriage ended when BM decided she didn't want to be married anymore, and she forced my BF to leave.
I totally agree that it's my BF who should handle it, not me. I don't want to make things more awkward and confusing for the SS than they already are.
I completely disagree with the opinion that it's immoral for my BF and I to have started dating before his divorce was final - that was nothing more than a technicality, the marriage had been dead for a long time - but I do appreciate that your advice was more neutral and trenchant than most of the other comments here.
I freely admit that I had no idea what I was getting into with SKs, I don't have children of my own so I lacked the perspective that a mother would have. In hindsight, I would have waited much longer for my BF to have healed and sorted everything out, and for his kids to have grown more accustomed to a sad situation that was forced on them (their family falling apart). Our new love complicated everything and made things more unpleasant for BM and the SKs, I didn't realize how extensive that pain would be for them.
There is no way to go back in time and change things, though. The situation I'm dealing with now is that I'm being wrongly accused of something I didn't do - break up a marriage.
Sorry you have to go thru
Sorry you have to go thru that. Our BM put it in the skids head that I broke up the marriage. 20 years later, zillions of times telling them what happened and I just don't care anymore. My skids even knew the BM was cheating and went on a few "dates" with her while my DH was working but the conveniently forget it.
I no longer tell time lines and DH ignores them too if they bring it up.
Thanks. I guess you are
Thanks. I guess you are right, what it really all comes down to is that we can't control what the BM tries to put in the kids' heads. We can't control what the kids end up believing. I may have to just accept that and move on.
There's a good chance SS is
There's a good chance SS is questioning this because of things BM has told him. Maybe she told him your bf was seeing you while they were still married before they were divorced. If she told him this, she wasn't lying.
Some consider the way it was is cheating. Some do not. Your SS may feel it is. He may feel it's not.
If your bf feels like he needs to answer the question & feels like the way he did it was acceptable, he should have no problem saying, "Your mom kicked me out & I started dating BP a few months later.
Honestly, if his mom is telling him one thing & his dad is telling him another, there is no way to erase his doubts. If BM tells him that his dad cheated he'll look for answers. When he asks dad about it & gets the answers, no doubt he'll have questions to take back to him mom. The only way his doubts & questions will go away will be to either have mom come out & say "Your dad never cheated. I lied." or to have dad come out & say "I cheated on your mom. I lied when I told you I didn't." My guess is that neither of those things will ever happen.
This is something he'll question & struggle with until he's able to recognize & accept that whatever happened happened & it cannot be changed. This is something that my SS19 is struggling with right now. His issues aren't so much in regards to cheating, as he was old enough to recall some of his mother's comings & goings. His are more with the final breakdown between BM & DH.
While their relationship should be none of his business, all it takes is one selfish parent needing their child to "take their side" & start divulging details or "details" & a child will make it their mission to figure out to sort it all out.
Well, technically, it sounds
Well, technically, it sounds as though BOTH Mom and Dad were dating while married. Until that decree was signed by the judge, they were both married. So if Dad wants to be honest to his child...
But honestly? It's none of the kid's business. Nor is it your place to set him straight about either of his parents.
Yes. Technically both Mom and
Yes. Technically both Mom and Dad were dating while married.
Mom was dating while Dad and Mom were still a couple and Dad was still living in the family home, and she was hiding it from him and their children.
Dad started dating after he had been asked to leave multiple times, had his pleas to go to counseling ignored, lost so much weight people thought he had cancer, went on antidepressants, left behind everything he had ever worked for for his ex and the children so that their lives wouldn't be disrupted, and had to rent a shoebox apartment where his kids slept on air mattresses when they visited because he had no money left after the alimony and child support he agreed to pay after being kicked out of his own home and forced to leave his own family.
So I guess it's even.
To a kid who's been placed in
To a kid who's been placed in the back-&-forth of a he-said-she-said between his parents, it has nothing to do with being "even". He's being given information they have no business giving him & he's trying to figure it out.
Apparently he's being told that dad cheated. It sounds like he's trying to resolve things so he can put it to rest.
Your hearing a situation from one side. This kid is hearing 2 versions of the same situation. He isn't trying to justify or excuse anyone's actions. He isn't trying to figure out if one cheating during the marriage after the separation is acceptable because the other one cheated during the marriage before the separation. He's just trying to process what he's been given.
BM hiding her activity from the kids while they were together isn't a bad thing. Kids don't need to know it's going on.
This is this is one of the reasons it's best not to start another relationship until you've cleaned up from the first one.
I don't think the phrase
I don't think the phrase "cheating during the marriage after the separation" has any validity. If a couple breaks up, and one is forced to leave the family home while the other immediately puts a profile up on a dating site, it's not "cheating" if the rejected party finds a new person to fall in love with amid the rubble of his life. Cheating implies fraud, sneaking and lying. If a couple is no longer a couple, they don't live together anymore, they don't love each other anymore, and they both agree that they are broken up and not getting back together, there cannot be any "cheating" because there is no one left to cheat on. A document making its way through the state's court system is pretty irrelevant at this point.
My concern isn't with what BM thinks of us. She knows what she's done. My concern is a child growing up thinking that his dad let another woman break up his parents' marriage.
"A document making its way
"A document making its way through the state's court system is pretty irrelevant at this point."
That's your opinion. I think it's important to recognize that that is not everyone's opinion. It may or may not be SS's opinion. Clearly that document is quite relevant to a lot of people. It's binding. It's nearly permanent.
You keep pointing out what BM did. You keep comparing what your bf did to what BM did. If you can look at this through the eyes of the child they have together, those things are irrelevant.
I realize you're not concerned with what BM thinks. The child is seeing things from a completely different POV than you seem willing to consider. Regardless of what BM did, apparently the kid recognizes that dad had another gf while he was married to mom. He isn't wrong.
I suppose it's a matter of opinion. Mine doesn't matter. You see it as your bf did nothing wrong. His kid sees his dad with another woman while he was married.
ETA: I'm not trying to judge you. You keep saying you want to change this kids opinion...to make him see it the way you see it. He isn't going to because he's experiencing this from a completely different angle.
Sometimes all we can do is present the facts & let people reach their own decisions. Maybe he'll agree with you. Maybe he won't. I can tell you that it's something that will likely remain an issue for a long time.
Everyone in this thread seems
Everyone in this thread seems to be jumping all over the "technically married" part when I think OP has explained a few times that the issue is SS thinking she broke up the marriage, that she is the reason for the kid's parents divorcing.
I don't think OP is trying to change the kid's opinion. I think the advice she was seeking was how best to communicate to the child that the information he is receiving - that his stepmom broke up his parents' marriage - is incorrect.
Well, technically, it sounds
Well, technically, it sounds as though BOTH Mom and Dad were dating while married. Until that decree was signed by the judge, they were both married. So if Dad wants to be honest to his child...
But honestly? It's none of the kid's business. Nor is it your place to set him straight about either of his parents.
The question SS has doesn't
The question SS has doesn't concern when the actual divorce decree was filed in the courts. The question SS has is whether I broke up the marriage. Enormous difference I think, even to a 13-year-old. One is "Well, my dad sure jumped back into the dating scene pretty quickly," which I realize isn't a great thing for a kid to have to face. But the other is "My Dad lied to my Mom and went behind her back and hurt her and snuck around and betrayed her, and this other woman is the actual reason my parents aren't together." A whole different level of hurt, it is this second scenario that BF and I are being accused of.
Of course YOU will do nothing
Of course YOU will do nothing and of course its the bio-moother. Kids would not think that up at that age or if they happened to pick it up from a kid at school they might ask once and drop it.
I think dad is doing all he can do. Repeat, repeat and repeat some more. Calmly and without rancor. He shoud emphasize that the boys mother instigated the whole thing and make it clear that he would never have left had she not done so.
Interestingly I had a similar ex wife in that she could give no reason, didn't even try, for the break-up, even to her own mother. Looking back I see that she was running from her problems which she had done in many different ways before the break-up. We decided that we would both be present when the kids were told and when I was asked a direction question by one of the kids "Do you mean you don't want to leave" and my answers was yes that was the end of the group session.
On later occasions if the subject came up I told them they would have to ask her why she wanted to end the marriage. Of course she had a new guy waiting in the wings and the bed wasn't even cold when he moved in. They now know the bitter truth now of course but she died and can't reap the rewards of her insanity.
I'm sorry your kids' mom put
I'm sorry your kids' mom put them through that. It was basically the same with our BM; she seemed to end the marriage and destroy the family almost on a whim, because she was having a stressful few months. To this day no real reason has been given. I guess that just goes to show how powerful stress can be. Later she seemed to regret having ended the marriage, especially after I entered the picture. She acted betrayed, as though he had no right to move on, and seemed furious that he would do anything without her permission as that had always been their dynamic. Three years later, she still acts bewildered that my BF is no longer at her beck and call as he was during the marriage. It's been a very tough road for her as well, to adjust to losing control of her life just when she thought she was gaining more control. I just hate that she's using her own children as pawns in her game of bitterness. I wish she would just make up whatever schoolyard names she feels she needs to make up about me and say them to my face rather than going through her children and hurting them.
I seem to have the same
I seem to have the same answer to almost any post i read lately: watch Once and Again.
It is an old ABC show about two divorced 40-somethings who fall in love and blend their families. They have exes who are also finding new love; the show answers ( or raises) so many of the questions asked on ST it should be mandatory viewing
Last episode of Season 1 has this twist: a 14yo girl figures out that her dad met ( and fell in love with) his current GF several years earlier than she had previously believed, during her parents' marriage. The girl is devastated. Interestingly, it is her BM ( Sela Ward) who helps her deal with her emotions and tells her to value her relationship with her dad and sets the record straight ( she dumped him, not the other way around). My Dh said after that episode, It is too perfect! Which is true... everyone tries to deal in such mature thoughtful ways... there is no hostility that is so prevalent in our lives. It is a great show! Available on DVD from Netflix ( only 2 seasons, unfortunately).
Interesting, I'll have to
Interesting, I'll have to check it out! Thanks!