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How much affection is "normal" for a daddy and 10yr old daughter?

Buzybee82's picture

Let me first start by clarifying I'm not at all saying my DH is crossing any sexual lines here....
We have SD every other weekend, as some of you already know. This issue has really bothered me for a long time so I'm turning to my friends here on StepTalk for opinions.
SD's BM is a total slut, she always has new guys in and out of her life... sometimes I believe putting SD in adult situations... seeing her mom flirt and be skeezy. SD grandma ( on BM side) is the same way and they actually live with that grandma.
Any way to my point...i truly believe SD is mimicking what she sees adults do with her dad (DH) She will "spoon" him on the couch, sit next to him with her legs on his lap, sit behind him straddling him, wrap her arms around his neck and lay her head on his shoulder, walk up behind him and hug his butt, sit on the counter with her legs wrapped around his waste, give him neck rubs, and so on.... if we're all watching a movie and DH and I are on the same couch and i get up for less than a minute she will take my spot next to him and "cuddle". Every night she wasn't u him to tuck her in bed and she will ask him to lay with her. I can tell sometimes makes DH uncomfortable, he will tell her to get off of him (nicely of course) and she will take it as a joke and not listen so he will get up and do anything to get away and she follows him. literally, like even if he goes to the bathroom she follows him! Now i know they miss each other and DH is an amazing dad and the only good thing this girl really has in her life, but what's crossing the line? To me she is mimicking adult behavior and it needs to be stopped and talked about cuz she will act this way when she gets into the "boy" phase of her life. I think DH knows inside some of its wrong, but doesn't know how to deal with it appropriately. Yesterday at fathers day dinner with his whole family there DH & SD showed more affection and acted more like a couple than any of the married couples there, including us! I'm not jealous, but a lot of the time it makes me uncomfortable enough that I'll leave the room and let them spoon on the couch. I always had my dad in my life, he traveled 70% of my childhood for work, but we never acted the way these two do. I don't know if I'm over reacting, or if my gut is right. What's normal? What's crossing the line? Should i talk to DH about this?
Also SD is very sexual in my opinion... always has been. Just this Friday she told us she wants to adopt kids so she " doesn't have to do the nasty thing in bed people do to have babies" Even when she was little she would get naked and get in a "doggy style" position and wag her naked privates back and forth, or have her barbies naked mimicking sex.
SD is 10 and still poops her pants. She can control it, never done it at school, has been to doctors and has no medical condition. I know this is a sign of sexual abuse... and to be honest with BM lifestyle of guys in and out of her life and her disgusting family i wouldn't be surprised... we've delicately talked to SD about this and she's been in counseling so i don't think that's it.
Thank you all so much for always helping, please help me again with this one! and no rude bashing comments about DH, he is the most amazing dad to this little girl. thank you!

janeyc's picture

Yuck that does sound nauseating, I think Sd is confused, hopefully she will grow out of this, Daddy needs to calm things down a bit though, perhaps as you say she may have seen some things she shoud not have, lets face it though music videos sexualise children as well, I saw Sd6 dancing like Beyonce the other day, I told her is was'nt appropriate, horrible to see, so thats my advice, Daddy needs to say no and explain why is a child friendly manner. I do understand why this makes you feel uncomfortable, it would make me uncomfortable as well.

baseballgirly's picture

If it were my daughter and she was pre-teen as your is, I would start (with SOs support) an "arms only" hug rule. She can be taught at this age about what is appropriate and what isn't. She isn't a baby anymore and now that her body is going to start changing, she should know that her body language and manners should as well. It seems you have hit the nail on the head by mentioning she is copying her mothers actions. Those things she does-neck massage with legs wrapped around, spooning-seem much too adult for what she would think of on her own. It seems she's seen that somewhere. Maybe even saw the positive attention that got her mother from that boyfriend. I don't think you'd be out of line to suggest getting her to stop that behavior. Side note-your husband/boyfriend will have to do all of the talking. It will have to come from him so she knows it's serious and not just you telling her.

Buzybee82's picture

thank you so much! i agree completely...i just don't know how to talk to hubby about it. should i tell him it's in- appropriate? makes me uncomfortable? is too grown up? i have a real hard time talking to him about anything step daughter cuz he's usually quick to get defensive.... he always feels like he has to defend her. sadly this is just one of her MANY issues.

luchay's picture

Wow, it's a hard one - I can see how having to raise it with your OH would be really difficult.

Perhaps next time she behaves that way - afterwards, when you are alone with him ask him how he feels about her behaving that way. See if he realises there is a problem, and then get into a discussion of how she is growing up and he needs to discuss appropriate touching etc with her, ask him perhaps how he would feel about her behaving that way with other men/boys.

He needs to teach her NOW to set boundaries with her touching and body.

mama_althea's picture

I think this is a good approach. Also framing it in the context of learning these behaviors from BM's example...this takes any "blame" off SD and hopefully he would be less defensive. I too wonder if any other guests at the function seemed uncomfortable by their display. If so, mentioning them might help point out that this isn't only you thinking this.

MichelleA's picture

I have very similar problems with my FSD - she has just turned 11. I think she is struggling with the new 'order' of things.... she isn't sure of her 'position' in the family anymore. She sees me cuddling up to her daddy and wants to do the same... it's the 'Alpha female' thing I think. My FSD is slowly coming to terms with the idea that I am his girlfriend and she is his daughter - its two different roles. x

oncechoosetosmile's picture

In most cases I agree it is abpout wanting to be the alpha female and therefore trying to play the wife role, this was very familiar to me with SD, too.Thanks god , SO corrected it once he realised that.Buzzy, your sds behaviour seems to go beyond that though.It sounds like something else was going on.Please raise your concern to SO.Just imagine she WAS abused and doesn't get help- this could stuff up her whole life.At the same time I like the arm rule from the poster above. She is acting totally inappropriate and it seems she is more the wife than you.

Orange County Ca's picture

we've delicately talked to SD about this and she's been in counseling so i don't think that's it.

I'm not so sure. Maybe a second opinion?

ctnmom's picture

Smile Hey guys, good morning- hi BB! My take on this- whatever happened to good old fashioned "shame"? Maybe because I'm catholic, I don't know, no kid would ever act like this in front of me and get away with it! BB, you and DH immediately, like YESTERDAY, IMHO need to start telling SD what's appropriate and what's not. Not with a judgemental or harsh tone, just matter of factly like "SD, girls your age don't lay with thier dads like that". Your DH waliking away to get away from the behavior needs to stop- he's tacitly telling her it's ok. And it's not. He needs to take her body parts off his firmly and tell her "no, SD, that isn't the way dads and daughters cuddle". Then he can put his arm around her and show her how to sit like a little lady. I'm sure the poor little bugger is seeing all kinds of things at BM's, you and DH need to nip it in the bud at YOUR house, sooner rather than later. And please don't think I'm bashing you, but if you DON't stop it, then your part of the problem. But-you already knew that, that's why you asked for help. Good luck and God bless.

Buzybee82's picture

omg, i LOVE THIS SITE! Normally for the past 7 years I've held these types of issues in and just stewed on them because no one really understands cuz they're not in a " blended family" situation. I agree with people saying it's a alpha female thing for sure! SD will give me these looks when ever she is doing these things like "haha, he's cuddling with ME not YOU!" and I'm not exaggerating at all! This little 10yr old girl is more manipulative and plays more games than i ever have in my whole life! It's definitely a competition thing with her. Everything's a competition with her...ex: fathers day Sunday i was getting ready, DH was getting our DD2 ready ( meaning all of everyone's attention wasn't on SD) so she makes DH stop dressing our 2yr and come get MY brush that i was using to get ready with! She has at LEAST 4 of her own brushes, plus there's at least 3 more brushes in the main bathroom... but she refused to use any of those and HAD to have mine! Just to give you a little idea of her games/ control! And when DH asked me for my brush, i said "for what?!" he said "SD wants it, says she has to have this one or she won't brush her hair, and I'm just trying to avoid any 'issues' with her right now"
Are you f-ing kidding me?!?! This all after SD took a 1hr 25min shower so i couldn't take one, AND SD ate MY breakfast so after cooking breakfast i didn't get to eat! not to mention I'm 38wks pregnant!
I need all this bullshit to stop, and truly feel DH needs to be the one to change it all! I've stopped telling him all of these little instances cuz he says I'm just out to get her!!!!

oncechoosetosmile's picture

Buzzy, she wants to be you and play your role, it is so obvious.And your SO seems quite blind towards what she does which makes you not wanting to share a brush etc sound almost petty.But it isn't.He needs to realise that he needs to step in now and finish this silly competition with you that SD is playing right now.There is only one way to my mind and this is to put her right back into her place- she is the child and you are the adult-she has NOT the same rights as you and she is certainly not to be treated like you.
You need to have a serious chat to your SO and don't let him get away with saying you are overreacting since pregnant or being petty, she is just a child etc.....as they all try that, but this is bullshit.In that moment SD understands she is not gonna play your role ever, she will quit this competative behaviour since she knows it will not get her anywhere.But SO will need to ensure this is happening.
This means for example not letting her eat your breakfast or if that's too late to make her apologise and cooking you new breakfast and telling that child off.This is neither acceptable nor cute, she is a brat and what is worse, SO let's her get away with it out of guilt- not good for the kid either!!!!!!

Buzybee82's picture

BTW.... what does FSD mean? lol?! I'm guessing it means fu*#ing step daughter but don't want to be wrong!

fmpro's picture

In my opinion, SD10 may simply have a strong need for physical touch. My 10 year old daughter is the same way. She loves to cuddle, touch and be touched. This is a legitimate, non-sexual need. The "love languages" apply to children as well albeit without the sexual aspect. Some kids require more touch than others. It seems to me that you are the one sexualizing her behavior, not her. Your husband sounds like a great Dad and a good man. Trust him to define the boundaries. It also sounds like she has some developmental problems that may put her behind the curve a bit. Be patient. Your concern about how she will react around "boys" could be argued the other way too. That is to say, because SD10 is getting plenty of non-sexual appropriate touch from home, she may have less of a desire to seek it elsewhere. Also, the naked butt wiggling occurred when she was "little", right? WIthout the exact context it is difficult to label as unusual behavior. Just my 2 cents.

Buzybee82's picture

I know some kids are more affectionate than others, but I have to go with my gut on this one... it's very grown up behavior. We have a 2year old daughter and she's affectionate with daddy too, but it's so different than the way SD10 acts. I agree it's a competition thing, a mini wife thing for sure. especially cuz she gives me these evil looks when she's doing it, like ha ha I've got daddy not you! The wagging her butt naked when she was " little" was really not that long ago, she was about 9! And if it was "normal" affection stuff wouldn't she do it with grandpa or heck grandma? She too talks like a baby, acts like a baby, acts crazy and wild, whatever she can do to make sure all attention is on her at all times! like annoying things... if, god forbid, DH isn't giving her his every second of his attention she will make something stupid up and say "look at me" all the time!

bi's picture

sd19 used to pull the dirty looks while loving on daddy bullshit, too. she would practically leap onto him and throw her arms around him, proclaiming "i love you, daddy!" then she would whip her head toward me to see if i was watching and getting the message that he was HER dad, not mine. she was a freaking teenager doing this crap! i never looked at her and gave her the satisfaction she wanted, i completely ignored her. it drove her nuts that i wouldn't respond. what i really wanted to do was inform her that i'm not looking for a daddy, so the competition exists only in her head.

Buzybee82's picture

nice! i like that! or maybe go the complete opposite and say " oh isn't that sweet, you two are spooning together! let me take a picture to post on Facebook so the whole world can see how sweet this is!"

fmpro's picture

Oh, so the naked butt wagging was at 9 years old. That is concerning. Had she been 3 or 4 at the time, that wouldn't have been so alarming. Honestly, I'd still tread lightly. Let your DH deal with the issue. Perhaps he can meet with her therapist when SD isn't around to get some objective professional insight.

borrowedtime83's picture

I have had this same thing with SD8, not to your extreme, but the "spooning" and taking my place to cuddle, saying "I love you Daddy!" while we are in the middle of intervening with my 5 year old, and half the time when I get up while they are "cuddling" and go to another part of the house, she gets up, too, because she is not even an "affectionate" girl, she just does it to irritate me. SO does not wanna say anything because it bugs him that his kid is not affectionate so he takes what he can get, negative or not. I have sadly went through it with my 5 year old. She sees her bio dad making out with girls, and at one point decided that every time she kissed me goodbye or goodnight or ever she tried to french me, and I said, "NO YOU DO NOT KISS MOMMY THAT WAY!" And that's pretty much all you can do is say no and provide a short explanation, not a lecture (for the child anyway)