SD20 staying over- how often is reasonable?
Hi there- I'm relatively new here- have briefly told my story on an introductory thread in this forum last week.
This week a topic has resurfaced that's always been a bone of contention between SO and myself and we are faced with it again now that SD20 has finished her end of year university exams and has more free time.
Both SD's live with their mother - around 30 mins drive from us. Neither have their driving licence - (but we have just given them a second -hand car for when they do in the next few months- don't even start me on that!).
Both SD's work in our small retail store. (another one not to start me on- I clearly need to vent) SD23 has been working around 4 days a week and SD on Saturdays. SD23 has a boyfriend and very loyal to her Mum so rarely stays over. SD20 stays most Friday nights and then goes into work with her Dad on the Saturday.
The Christmas roster has just started this week and SD20 is now working around 4 days a week and will want to stay over more- especially as our house is only 5 mins drive from the store. It takes them an hour to get to work from their house on public transport.
I would like SO to have a discussion with SD20 about her expectations of staying over so we are all on the same page.
I am currently dealing with amongst other things: a slow, troublesome withdrawal from Paxil- currently stable but due to the nature of the tapering process I have bad patches and can become unstable both physically and mentally - then there is the recent dx of Borderline - something I am coming to terms with and has a huge impact on my interpersonal relationships.
SD20 is a huge trigger for me - she's a big personality - the kind you don't miss when she's in the room (very different to her sister) she's loud in everything she does (including walking, talking, sneezing, opening and closing doors) and takes up a lot of physical space. You know she is here. She's a pretty typical Gen Y-er and I often have trouble relating. She needs to always be engaged with someone-can't bear silence or being alone.... part personality type- part the fact she likes me (which i know I probably shouldn't be complaining about). She often wants to paint my nails or chat. I have a lot of resentment towards her and want to disengage...and I think I slowly am. It's very confusing for her as it's not totally personal- it's about my own limits and need to stay well. It's about her Dad and how much I disrespect the way he parents her. It's not what i would do and I lose more and more love and respect for him every day I continue to witness what I see as 'dysfunctional' co-dependant behaviour.
Keeping in mind that what *I* need more than anything in the world is a stable home environment and relationship with my SO -and with the SD's being a massive trigger for me- am I being unreasonable in asking that we stick to the one night- two at a stretch - that she stays over between now and Christmas?
SO is really putting off having this discussion with her- were it up to him he'd have pretty much an open door policy for his kids...which is maybe not that unusual?
I said to him it was quite simple really (I'm an excellent black or white thinker) : it's not me vs her...but rather my emotional and mental wellbeing vs convenience for her.
Am I being unreasonable in saying this? Last night I pointed out that she CHOSE to work at our store- she could easily get a job closer to home- and if she chooses to work at a place on the other side of town- then she has to take responsibility for the fact she does not have her licence yet and must rely on PT.
Sometimes I think I don't understand as I have no kids of my own. I just feel mean and no matter how SO words it to her - I feel like I'm going to come off as the evil SM here.
Thanks in advance for any insight.
I would tell SD that she is
I would tell SD that she is welcome to stay during the week however due to some health issues of yours there has to be some guidelines. Like she MUST clean up after herself. And for everyones sanity no slamming doors or cupbaords. Ask her to help out with the shopping or little things around the house.
You can't help her personality and considering the alternative (scheming, manipulative, spying little piece of Daddy kiss-arse) she really isn't so bad. Just let her know you like your space and as you are older (insert a laugh) you need to have more down-time at the end of the day than most people.
And also she might want to put some money in the hat for power and water etc. Tell SO this is a learning esperience for her. Living with other adults and contributing. Even if she gives you $25 a week it is better than nothing. Or maybe she buys dinner for you all on Fridays.
Hi oneoffour - thanks for
Hi oneoffour - thanks for your thoughts- I think i was typing my other reply to notsam at the same time you posted.
I like the idea of the guidelines- this is what I'm trying to get SO to set but he's not the best at.
We've discussed the of helping out while staying here with our counsellor and so far we've only got her making the bed after staying her (it's a guest room as against 'her' room. I have seen SO ask her to help with the dishes exactly once. I'd like her to yes wash some dishes occasionally or shop for food and cook. I know for a fact she doesn't shop at home - no car or time.
I agree - I can't punish her for her personality- or for the way she was raised or the way her Mum lets her not cook/clean/shop etc at home.
I doubt we'd get any money from her- we have to pay adult child-support (don't start me)- but I guess if she's with us 50/50 then we could be paying less as it's currently calculated by her living with her Mum full time.
Some really good stuff to think about here- thanks- I don't want to be the baddie here and *sometimes* I don't mind her being around- it's just when I;m not in a good headspace that every little thing really pisses me off -down to how much toilet paper she is a capable of going through - I mean do some people eat the stuff?
Yes- that's they way to go I
Yes- that's they way to go I think.
Problem is that SO has already started speaking to her about my Borderline...how it affects those close to us (which I guess is her as well)...and am afraid I might have already been tarred with the 'she's very sensitive and can tend to over-react' brush. In a way it's true, but at the same time not so straightforward as needing to toughen up.
Should this be coming from me or SO?
Maybe you could both talk to
Maybe you could both talk to her. I say that because, if it's just your SO, she may feel he is just making up excuses for you and if it's just you, she may feel that SO does not have your back on this, thus making you the bad guy. If you do it together, she knows the decision is being made by both of you, she can hear it from you that it not totally personal, and you can discuss some boundaries and what you need from her when she does stay.
Good idea- present as a team
Good idea- present as a team
I don't think you are being
I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. Your mental health definitely trumps her convenience.
I do understand how you feel, as I refuse to let my SD22 (and her 2 kids) live here and I feel guilty about that sometimes, but it's better for everybody because I would be a raving lunatic if they moved in. She would really see the mean, evil SM.
You are probably right, no matter how your SO puts it to her, she is going to feel rejected. You just have to get past that and live with it. I have.
The bottom line for me is (besides my mental health), SD is an adult, she has never lived here (so, sorry to say it, but it is not her home), and I have never wanted kids so I'm not going put up with hers. And even if she didn't have kids, I would not want her living here. My DH and I agreed a long time ago that no other adult live with us, it is hard on a relationship.
Are you ok with her staying occasionally?
Thanks hereiam- yes- I feel
Thanks hereiam- yes- I feel the same about my mental health trumping her convenience...but alas, I still feel bad...like I am keeping SO from spending time with his DD.
With the rejection thing - yes something we both have to get past and not take too personally- it works both ways - the other week I was rejected and hurt terribly :; After a day in hospital with infected tonsils....my instinct was to make and drop off to her some soup and her favourite comfort food. I wasn't even going to knock on the door. Just literally drop it off.
I was politely asked to not worry 'in case Mum gets mad'. God forbid the SM is kind and caring. I wasn't planning on staying for a cup of tea and a chat. She chose her mother's feelings over my generosity.. oh well, it was her loss and I was very upset but have to get over it. I think it was the fact that she is more than happy for me to cook and care for her when she's here but it's like I don't exist in her 'other world'. I guess this might be more common than I think.
Yes, I am ok with her staying occasionally (but won't pretend I wasn't happy when she told us she's more than likely spending 6 months studying abroad next year) but like you said, with some boundaries and house rules.
My bottom line is pretty much the same as yours= and I feel the same about this not being her home (though she did I think at first want it to be- by decorating the guest room etc) I put my foot down and said no as it's also my dressing room. I'm also of the stage of my life where I simply don't want to be sharing with anyone apart from my SO on a permanent basis.
My wife's kids live in the
My wife's kids live in the same town. They have their place yes. On a rare occasion one or the other will come over and visit and spend a night. And by rare I mean every four months or so. They are adults now so she meets them for dinner/shopping/whatever they feel like doing. My daughter just moved in with my step kids. She hasn't been back to spend the night yet.
My point is at 18 they are adults. If they are choosing to live with mom, that is where they live. There is no more visitation and it sounds like your husband gets plenty of time to see them at work. Perhaps the inconvenience of the long bus ride will encourage one or both girls to finally get their license. As long as you make it easy on them, what reason do they have to go through the effort and expense (car insurance) of getting the license?
"My point is at 18 they are
"My point is at 18 they are adults. If they are choosing to live with mom, that is where they live. There is no more visitation and it sounds like your husband gets plenty of time to see them at work. Perhaps the inconvenience of the long bus ride will encourage one or both girls to finally get their license. As long as you make it easy on them, what reason do they have to go through the effort and expense (car insurance) of getting the license?"
Hi Mr.Just.His.Wife,
The point you make is my one I raise FREQUENTLY.And sometimes not so gently either!
I don't think they get that by choosing to live with their Mum (who would look after her they say, about a woman who yes, has some issues but can perfectly well support herself emotionally and financially) they are choosing to NOT live with us. SD20 in particular likes to think of having two homes and two families. i should also point out there was never any visitation etc as my SO only left the family home just under 3 years ago- so they were already adults when they divorced last year.
Yes- I think they are both finally sick of having to rely on others and the bus to get around. The oldest is going for hers I think in the next few weeks but the younger won't be able to before she gets her 120 hours up (in Australia you have to do 120 practice hours with a licenced driver if you are under 21) - or wait until she's actually turns 21 in Feb.
That's another bone of contention- all the complaining about wanting to get their licence and how expensive the lessons are blah blah blah- so we offer to do lessons/practice with them both (SO forked out hundreds in lessons many moons ago and I put my foot down as there was no reason they could not practice with their BM or Dad- or even me when I was feeling generous)...we pay extra on our own insurance to list them as young drivers and then they don't take the opportunity-and still complain! It wasn't such a priority and as you said- their incentive was low- but I think now the penny is finally dropping.
It has been funny watching them since we handed over our old car to them (one I was perfectly happy to keep driving but SO had promised it to them a year ago)- I had to resist the urge to do it all for them - the transfer/rego/insurance etc and see them be shocked at how much it costs to keep a car on the road!!
My SD18 is due to live with
My SD18 is due to live with us 50/50 for a long while yet due to signing up for a double degree and lack of general independence and initiative. There little chance for me that she will work in the holidays full time or go backpacking for example.
In fact my SD18 spends a very high proportion of her life in her room at our place and is often buying new decorating stuff and teddy bears and rearranging her furniture for something to do. Its classic nesting behaviour. She used to have a noticeboard that was full of photos of her and her dad and then a few of friends.
The reason I am sharing this is that you a right to be alert and watchful and to draw up some boundaries. You could end up with a situation like mine!
Your SD20 lives with her mum which in my opinion is smarter and a better arrangement. I cannot get over how ill equipped the average adult male is to fully parent a teenage or young adult female. Why would they ever want custody? Ofcourse it would be better if they got their own jobs rather than just work with their dad. In the meantime, it sounds like your SO is parenting in a way with teaching them the value of work which is something that dads are often good at.
You are correct about guidelines and I would start pushing now and be clear before the situation takes hold. Be clear that she can stay no more than 2 nights a week for example. It is a shame that your mental health has been discussed. Sorry I think that is an invasion of your privacy unless you were ok with that conversation.
Thanks FS - yes- I know I'm
Thanks FS - yes- I know I'm lucky in that SD20 has *some* independance (she spent her 3 month summer break last year travelling around Europe).
Do you think 2 nights is reasonable? I personally think that's fair considering what's going on for me. And yes, we'll be setting some 'house rules'.
I have to admit that SO and BM did do an okay job in instilling the value of work (both got casual job at 15) though the wider-emcompassing work ethics are a bit less desirable - like thinking it's ok to be constantly 10-15 mins late to work. Both of them do it.
NOTHING infuriates me more than the regular Saturday morning here:: SD20 is a heavy sleeper and has to be woken by her father at least twice. Despite not even being dressed, SD20 and SO have a leisurely Saturday morning breakfast and then end up rushing and leaving late to open the store which in my world, is not good enough. You don't get up in time, there are consequences: you don't get a lovely homecooked breakfast made by your Dad and/or you miss your ride to work and make your own way there. He leaves at 9:45 and if you are not ready you miss your ride. Instead, yes, he waits for her!
I have said more than once that he needs to let her sleep through her two alarms and leave for work without her (they do Saturdays together) and she can find her own way there - which without a ride from her Dad would be a 30 min walk or a short walk and a bus.
She then learns that 1) she has to get herself to work and 2) she loses wages in her lateness. There are repercussions for being late to work!
I'm tense even writing about it! We've agreed that he won't cook breakfast until unless she's dressed and ready. Sheesh - sounds like we are talking about a child here - not a 20 year old who is perfectly capable of fixing her own breakfast. SO has admitted he misses doing this for his kids so I don't push it too hard- it was always their 'thing' - their whole life- breakfast was with Dad.
I also am not sure how I feel about my mental health being discussed. I was ok about it at first....he's trying to help them understand my hot-cold- behaviour which I know can be confusing for them. One week I'll happily cook dinner and let her have a friend over the next I'm missing in action as I don't want to even see her. Sigh.