I would be curious about her side of this. As a stepmom I am always inclined to believe there is more going on. Are you and your brother involved in their lives much? That can be hard for a Stepmom. If they have been together this long, she is pretty much married to him just without the license...

As for therapy, I refused to go as well and the reason was I knew it was going to be a bitch session directed at me. Because as I am continually reminded by everyone there were no problems until she moved in....Stop and look at this from her point of view, would you set yourself up like that? I wouldn't.

Also what is the promise. I am sure there is a valid reason, it just may not be valid to an adult stepchild.

I am an adult stepchild too. My family had more than its share of dsyfunction. When I left at 18 I stopped trying to make my family function and decided to work around / within the dysfunction (at the advice of many therapists). I was an adult as were my father and SM - nobody was going to change. And, I figured my father and his wife's marriage were their own problem. I visited every other year, spent 72 hours (my max) and then went home and went back to my life. I spoke with my father and SM on the phone 2-3x a mth and developed a close but arms-length relationship with each of them. I was upset as long as I was obsessed with trying to get them to change but once I just accepted them it got so much better. My father has since passed and I'm thankful for the years we had without the drama of trying to get them to change.

I'm in a similar situation with my uncle (with whom I was very close my entire childhood and early adult years). His wife and I don't get along but he loves her very much. I've had to accept that I had many good years with him but these years will need to be a different relationship because she is his wife. I had to let my hope of having the relationship the way it used to be between us go in order to enjoy the time we have left.

I think counseling for yourself would help you get perspective and maybe even find peace with the situation.

From the little bit of information you provided it seems that your real issue is with your dad. He met up with this childless old family acquaintance 6 months after your mother's death. From that statement I gather that you think GF doesn’t know how to deal with children because she doesn’t have any herself (myth by the way) and that perhaps you feel 6 months after your mother’s death was too soon and that GF perhaps seduced your dad long before then. In combination those revelations point to a bias on your part that you are revealing indirectly.

It seems that your dad is making decisions such as the therapy without first consulting his long-term partner; a unilateral move that is equally disrespectful and divisive. Personally I don’t blame GF for not wanting to attend family therapist sessions where she would inevitably feel and likely be ganged up on. Therapists aren’t gifted beings who can mysteriously foresee who is right or wrong.

Couple of questions: Do you and brother work independently or do you two work together? Are your views the same? Do you and your brother have fireside chats where you support each other’s negative view of GF who you then both decide is clearly in the wrong because she doesn’t understand children because she doesn’t have any?

If you two hold exactly the same views that is not proof that GF is wrong, but rather proof that you two are working in cahoots and likely in a bubble of fiction and self-righteous anger. If you were GF would you attend sessions with you and your brother?

How did it come to light that GF is upset that a marriage is not upcoming? Did dad speak out of school to either one of you or another family member who inappropriately shared that tidbit of information with you? To me the marital indecision sounds like a very private and intimate detail that should only be between the two of them not bantered around as another point of contention with adult children.

If it was dad, that is another deep betrayal of his partner. Believe me whether you will admit to it or not, you have a great deal to do with your dad’s indecision. Acknowledging your direct influence over his indecision might be the first place for you to start unravelling your own feelings.

Your motivation remains unclear to me. Do you want them to split up or what? It seems to me that you and your brother want GF to change but don’t want to make any changes yourselves. Ultimately the only person you can change is yourself. They are both in their mid sixties don’t you think it’s time to let them peacefully share whatever time they have left without being attacked by adult children with unresolved issues from the past?

The ball is in your court. You have lots of personal work to do so yes by all means go to therapy yourself and understand what your underlying issues really are before even attempting family therapy sessions. In my view your dad made the right decision not to go at this time.

"--- there should be balance and compromise." It sounds from your dialog as if all of the compromising has to be on the part of your Dad and his GF. You can see their mistakes but not your own. It takes two to communicate and two to break down communication. You say you step aside so your DH can have a phone conversation with his mother. What would you think if they wanted to have some Mamma-Son time and you were continually excluded from the visits? From what you write it is more than obvious you do not want to do your share of the work to improve your relationship with your Dad and GF. And from your last post it appears you really don't want the opinion of anyone else. Why waste your time? In fact, It seems an odd coincidence that SD's have been posting a lot after we were asked to be part of a docudrama.

May I ask why you and your brothers like the fact that they are not legally married?

I feel compelled to post a response. I'm sorry for the loss of your Mom.

I'm an adult SD, and I've been a SD for 25 years. A few things I've figured out along the way:

1) Treat everyone, including SM, like you want to be treated. Show your SM the same consideration you want her to show you. I can guarantee that if you butt out of her relationship with your dad, she'll be more inclined to give you more of what you want.

2) On that note, YOU have to be willing to compromise too. Thongs with your SM will not work out if you ask her to do all the compromise. Take a good, hard look at yourself and this situation and decide where you're willing to compromise.

3) There's a difference between saying, "Hey Dad, I miss you and would love to see you. Would you like to meet up for a cup of coffee?" and saying, "Dad, I miss you. Would you leave SM at home and come see me?" You wouldn't want your dad saying the latter to you about your DH.

4) By all means, go to counseling. Tell the counselor about what's going on, and really listen to and take to heart their advice and implement it in your life. Your counselor might suggest asking your dad to come in. They might not. I don't know. But either way, things can and will improve if you implement the counselor's advice and take a look in the mirror to see where you screwed up in this situation. Giving genuine apologies for those instances and making concerted efforts to making sure you contribute to a more peaceful coexistence can help, too.

5) Your dad can love you and his gf equally but differently. She's his life partner. You're his daughter. Like I said, she's his life partner. He helped create you. Both are very, equally powerful bonds, but are very different, and need to be treated differently. This is something you should discuss with your counselor.

I sought therapy for my stepfamily issues and continue to (for other reasons too). I can't tell you how much it's helped me. It can work for you too. The work you'll have to do won't always be easy, but the results will be well worth every amount of effort, energy and money you put in. Best of luck.

AprilMay, glad you came back to check out the responses to your post. Here are my views on your additional information: Comments in quotation marks are AprilMay's

“SHE (same age as dad cousin) was the FIRST one to point out to me that part of the problem is my dad's ladyfriend never had any kids so she doesn't have many parent-child relationship skills. So I KNOW I'm not the only one to see things this way.”

First, all that proves is what I originally said--the myth is pervasive. But more importantly, this is another instance of you were gossiping/twisting your issues with dad’s GF to anyone who will listen. Inviting 3rd parties into your problems always makes the problem worse as you covertly attempt to exert social pressure on GF by getting others to express your anger for you. Your job is to learn ways to get to know GF, not to turn the entire family against her because you feel threatened.

“AND my brothers have made this very suggestion to me, so I know it's reasonable.”

Do you need corroboration from your brothers to know when a suggestion you have made is reasonable or not? That reeks of collusion and collusion destroys trust.

“In addition, I'd like my dad to establish balance between the time he invests in his ladyfriend's activities with her family/friends and the time he invests in his kids.”

Why do you presume you have the authority to decide how a senior couple chooses to invest their time? Everyone involved is presumably adult are they not? It is time for you to build your own family and open your heart and accept a loving, adult relationship with both your father and his GF.

“Up until recently, her agenda was the only one that mattered, and dad could spend time with his kids only when she approved.”

(she has however “approved” that dad spend alone time with your brothers and half brother?) Are you suggesting that she hasn’t “approved” that dad spend time with you because you think she is jealous of you because you are female? Perhaps it is your father who has not felt comfortable being around you alone because you continuously challenge his GF.

“Now that they are both retired and have been together for over half a decade, the honeymoon phase is over and they are starting to acknowledge the need for normal space from each other now and then.”

Are you a meddling, overbearing mother observing and commenting from on the high on the behaviour of your little boy? That entire sentence is out of place, out of order, none of your business and the epitome of arrogance. I am certain both 60+ year olds have much more experience and knowledge in how life events unfold than you do. (they have both been your age, you have never been their age)

“Concerning your question about whether us skids influenced dad's decision to not legally remarry, I'm not sure what you are suggesting. Do you mean that you suspect that we took dad aside and privately begged him not to marry her? Or do you mean that even though dad made his own decision, he was considering us skids in the process? The former, NO. The latter, YES apparently (he alluded to the fact at one point)...but it was still HIS decision.”

This is a specious argument. Both suppositions are the same thing. It appears you ARE scheming to position yourself as the preferred #1 person with your dad, not directly, (by begging, yelling) but indirectly (silent treatment, emotional blackmail) without putting yourself at risk of any censure for your hidden aggressive behaviour.

As all the wise women have said to you, this is your problem that is causing problems for many. You would do well to engage self-examination (with the aid of a counsellor) to help you, understand and hopefully release, your jealousy, anger, fear and resentment so you can build your own life and your own family and forge an adult relationship with your father and his GF. You are assuming a leadership role in your birth family that is in fact not yours and it is not your job or place or role to tell dad and his GF what their places are. That is insulting.

Hi April May, I just went through 3 yrs of being treated terribly because my stepson would not marry his gf after having 2 kids together. She projected her anger out on everyone. It was miserable. Actually it didn't stop until he married her a yr ago, though she still was pretty terrible until she apologized (admitted it was projection due to their relationship) a month ago. Honestly, she was so terrible to be around that I have no plans on being around her much in the future. I hope you can get past this with your stepmom. If she is the type thinks it's right to project their anger out on an innocent party, I think you'll have more challenges than this unfortunately. Maybe you could try taking her out one on one for coffee and discussing how you feel.

If I think of you as my husband's daughter, this is what I would think:

Your father did not set up counseling for you because either a) You are not an infant. Claiming that you could not go because daddy said he would set it up and did not is beyond childish...or b) He does not want to go. You are a grown married woman. He may have ZERO interest in counseling with you.

Your father may have no interest in alone time with you. Maybe his alone time is for his partner.

My husband is 59. I guarantee you he no longer feels the need to raise his grown adult children. He wants to live his life now. He told them that. Of course, they expressed their lack of appreciation and even went so far as to say he hurt their poor little feefees when he told them he "deserved happiness and wanted to live his life now that they are adults."

They expected him to be only happy wiping their crybaby assess.

You sound like them...terribly possessive and infantile in your complaints.

If you want therapy, go to therapy.

What is your concern over whether or not they marry? Well, that is a rhetorical question. I know the answer. You are concerned about inheritance.

Here is a shocker on the subject of inheritance: My husband is leaving nothing to his children. It all goes to me should he die before me. If that happens and I am widowed, I will leave nothing to his children. Maybe your father and his partner have a will and/or a trust set up anyway. Being married does not mean he is not leaving his inheritance to her. After 7 years, it would be difficult to say what is hers and his anyway.

Another good one: My husband has made it very clear to me that I come first in all matters. His children are grown.

If you want an adult relationship with your father, then you ought to consider acting like the adult you are supposed to be.

I'd imagine at his age, your father no longer wants to act like you are some helpless little girl who needs her daddy ME ME ME time.

Would you ask your husband to leave your home should your father travel to see you without his partner? I hope so. Sadly, that would not bode well for your own marriage. What kind of man would leave his home so his wife can be alone with her daddy? Not okay.

Grown up men want grown up relationships with their significant others, NOT their daughters.

I bet my husband's children would be shocked to know everything I know. My husband tells me everything. We talk about more than they can imagine. One of them was shocked to learn of some things that I knew.

You want daddy to go to therapy for what? So you can develop some sort of visitation schedule with his partner for the two of you to share him? He is not to be shared. He is your father, and he should be respected as such. You have no idea what goes on in their relationship. Given the timing you have listed, she may have been a great support to him in a very sad time in his life.

There are some things partners share that are not shared between parents and children.

"Their fathers may grieve and GET OVER their absence. They may get used to their lives without their grown children (and their selfish demands) in it. The wife may get used to their lives without the grown stepchildren in it. Life goes on." I agree with this because I've experienced it first hand. When left alone without all of the drama and turmoil DH and SM are left alone to focus on their relationship and appreciate the feeling of peace they have with each other. DH has the time, without distractions and distorted viewpoints, to get to know SM for the person she really is. Absence does NOT always make the heart grow fonder - especially if it is the absence of negativity and emotional blackmail. It was mentioned that DH and SM have lived and experienced more than SDs will ever imagine. When SD's try to teach their Dad and SM a lesson by not contacting DH, they are overestimating their power and intelligence. In most cases their plan will back fire into alienation. It is the stroking of one's ego really worth it?

Entitled little bitch isn't she?

Just wondering if the poster of this thread has a father like my husband. My husband led his children to believe he wanted to do this or that for them, he would give them money, and visit daily, but. But they have to remember he has a wife and so on. Ultimately what he did was set the scene for them to hate me, he lied his guts out to his kids, he does not want to be over at their houses wiping their butts or fixing their toilets, digging their gardens or fixing anything really, he does not want to leave the house and go visiting anyone, he is happy at home, as for giving them money, hell would freeze over before he would do that, but, they thinkk he wants all of the above, but I WON'T LET HIM. Funny thing is HE was the one who forgot he had a wife when his daughter was spewing her filth at me, treating me with disgust and contempt. But then again, she was probably only sticking up for her dad because after all, he was telling her but for me he would have a whole different life with them.

I too am not impressed with the poster, she sounds so much like the SD's my own especially we read about here, but maybe here again the real problem is her father, he may be one of those weak dads we all know only too well. Maybe not, who am I to say, but I just look back at what my DH has done and the lies he told thinking he was keeping everyone happy, and the mess it all ended up.

So, to the daughter here I say this be very careful how far you push this, because no matter what your father may be leading you to believe, if he is anything like my DH when push comes to shove, he will stay with his wife and the only reason he would be filling your head with rubbish is to keep the peace. My DH no longer sees his daugher after HE caused all the trouble. If you by your words or by your actions make your father feel as though he has to choose one or the other to keep the peace, he will choose his wife.

You are too old to be carrying on like this. Best you take care of your own life and your own family and leave your father to get on with his and stop playing games like witholding phone calls. Unless your father is senile he will see through this, he more than likely won't say anything to you, we usually don't to our adult kids because as we get older we do not want to fight with them, but we DO SEE what they are doing and our silence does mean we condone or approve of what you have done or are doing,it just means we know our place and we allow you the respect you deserve as an adult to live your own live and make your own choices, you need to show your father the same respect thank you.

Unfortunately Sandye21 this is the only option open for people who have DH's like ours who are "people pleasers" who think peace at any price is peace. So they lie to everyone to keep everyone happy and the result is that everyone in their life is mad at them and I am totally convinced they will NEVER get it.

Let me tell you how bad my husband is, and this is so typical of his lying that I didn't even bother wasting energy getting mad about this I just told his sister the truth and said oh well, let him and your dad sort it out, I am not the one who brought him up to be a liar.

His father lives 4 hours away, and we used to go up every single boxing day, and every single time we were greeted with anger as FIL thought we should go up every single Christmas Day. Now I have always made it clear to my husband that if he should choose to spend Christmas Day with his dad I had no problem with that, but for Christmas Day my place was in Melbourne with my kids and grandkids, not out in the country with his father. I have tried many times over the years to comprise ie: one Christmas we had a "breakfast" with my kids and we left there at lunch time, came home to as I thought pick up the suitcase and DH said, no I am not going now we won't get there till dinner time. I have said for years he should go, his father i getting on, and even this year I said AGAIN, your father had an op for bowel cancer in June you have a week off over Christmas, you go up before Christmas and I will come up Boxing Day, not, not him, HE CHOSE NOT TO GO AND SEE HIS FATHER OVER CHRISTMAS AT ALL. Anyway now for the lie, he rings his father on Christmas Day, well, actually he asked me to ring him first, so I rang him and then passed the phone to DH. DH in italian wishes FIL Merry Christmas has a little chat, and we head off to my daughters place for lunch as per our plans.

Sister in law rings up a week later to ask how we are both feeling, I say fine thanks, she asks if I am over my fall ( had taken a fall a couple of weeks earlier ), I say yes, my leg is still needing attention, but it is all good, she then asks if DH is over his flu, and I say, what flu, she says dad said you could not come up at Christmas because DH has the flu and you had not recoverd from your fall, I laughed and said, I have no idea why he would say that. She says so it's not true and I said NO it is not true. She then proceeds to tell me this:

DH rang dad at Christmas and said we could not come up to see him because he had the flu and I was still severely injured from my fall, in fact we were so sick that we were not going anywhere for lunch, AND we were not having anyone come over to the house. We were just going to spend Christmas Day by ourselves.

What a heap of bullshit and why on earth did he make this crap up for no reason, no reason at all.

My guess, he did not want to drive 4 hours to see his dad this year, as he has been working very hard and long hours and was more than likely exhausted, and as he had no plans to ring his kids over Christmas (I discovered he had not spoken to them a couple of days after Christmas, nor they him), he did not want to discuss this with his dad, so to avoid the whole conversation with his father if we went up there, and to avoid his 84 year old daddy making this 64 year old DH ring his kids, he decided to just LIE. why he felt the need to enhance the lie with and we are not having anyone up either, well I cannot fathom that bit out. I guess he was just on a roll:)

So, if he goes to this extent with his father it boggles the mind to think what crap he spins his kids. The end result, his kids hate me, and they make sure I damn well know it, and they probably hate me because I am controlling their daddy, and he is mad with me, because I should understand they are upset because he left their mother 15 years ago. I am sure he knows why they are mad, I am sure he knows the lies he has told them, but instead of coming clean with me and them and saying look, this has gone too far, now we are all completely estranged, I need to tell you all something, I said this or that, to make each of you happy, but it was a lie. NEVER GONNA HAPPEN. I brought up the lie he told his father at Christmas with him and his first response was to lie and deny it, his second response was to lie and deny it, when I said let's ring your sister then and ask her why she made it up and I picked up the phone, then he said, so what, it doesn't what I said to dad. He reminds me of a child really, not a grown man.

So, this is why as much as I do not like the situation and I feel bad about this situation with his kids, the facts are, not only did he create it, but he has no clue as to how to fix it, so he just gets mad with everyone, keeps on lying and does nothing about it, and as far as ever admitting he has lied, well clearly that is never going to happen as even when is he is caught flat out lying his response is to lie about the lie. So, I may not like what has happened, but my conscience is clear, none of it has anything to do with me, as much as he and his kids may play the 'it's all because of her' game, I know in my mind, heart and soul, none of this is my fault so I move on with my life with a totally clear conscience.

So, as I said if the poster has a father like my DH and I am sure she will deny it, then HE, her father is her biggest problem not her SM. Still as I said she will deny it, as would my SD. Just goes to show they are so smart these women, they are so sure they know their daddies better than we do, and they don't they only know the lies daddy tells them. They do not know the type of father they have, we at least know they type of man we are married to. Too late perhaps, but we acknowledge it now and choose to not live in the lie with them.

Sandye21 I have your husband, you say, thank God, I have been worrying myself sick that this may be my DH. I will drop yours off immediately and am more than happy to provide him with a clean change of clothes for you

You are absolutely right Sandy they will just continue to lie, they will lie to the grave and if they reach the Pearly Gats, then they will bullshit there right before the gate is even opened for them. They are addicted to the lies, and they try to bignote themselves this way as it is the only way they can feel good about themselves. They lie to be Big Men to make people think they are better than they are. I used to feel sorry for DH but he has by his lies caused me so many problems, such stress and physical illness that I no longer care enough to feel sorry. Obviously he has very low self esteem and trying to bring me down there with him and better still under him was his only way of feeling better about himself. Oh well, bad luck about that eh!

My DH know he cannot trust me to have his back when he tells lies now, and I think he is now big noting himself to the guys at work because he thinks it will not get back to me. What he fails to realise it when he phones home through the day, he puts on this I am the man of the house voice, and I know straight away he is showing off to someone. He lies to show off, so it would be a fair bet, he is now spinning his bullshit at work. Better there than here:)

Have to say the ethnicity is a big factor in the way they behave, they have been brought up to worry about what other people think, to always be better than the next person and if you have to lie to achieve that goal that is okay. Let's be honest Sandy, you would know as well as I do, the way these people portray "family" to the world, but behind closed doors, well they are no better than the rest of us. Well in some ways they are worse really, they will go to every funeral they can to be seen, the fact that they have not spoken to that person for 20 years, and don't have a nice word to say privately about that person, doesn't seem to matter, they shamelessly go along to the funeral and call it RESPECT. Weird, weird, weird.

So, as I said if I have your DH I am more than happy to return him to you, please do not feel the need to send back a replacement, if this is the only model available, then I would rather have nothing thanks

Sorry, I think it was a trade. I'll send yours back and you can keep them both. LOL LOL

Sorry Sandye no can do..........I am now on the run at the very thought of it. Two of them, would remind me too much of the days when I had to put up with DH and SD. NEVER AGAIN.

We were supposed to me in Hawaii in a couple of weeks and I needed the rest, now we are caught up in this Air Australia nonsense, so if you think I am having no holiday and two of these (lost for words here), well think again.