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Wife refuses bio children of our own?

NeedingAdvice's picture

    Hi, I am new to this site. I was wondering if anyone could give me advice or has been through a similar situation. I have been with my wife for 5 years.

     I have a child from a previous relationship and she does not have any children of her own. When we first got together she said she wanted children. She loves children and is always visiting family to spend time with them. After meeting my son she changed her mind. She says she refuses to have children who will be "second rate". I tell her that they won't be, yet she never believes me. She says she will feel alone going through pregnancy since I have already been there/done that. I try to convince her she won't be but she says it's better safe than sorry.

   She is going to school still to get her masters and says that we will barely have time together and she won't feel comfortable taking away my time from my current child and that I should focus on him. On this topic, she always buys us great and thoughtful Christmas gifts but always tells me not to  get her any that I need to spend my money on my son. She also rarely wants to have date nights or any other activity- she'd rather me spend time with my son. 

     Any advice guys? I desperately want more children. She cries all of the time because she feels marrying me ended her dreams of having a true family. Her parents are getting older and it's hurting her seeing them go through the changes of aging- and they have always told her they wanted grandchildren. She says she will always be the outsider- she's just living with my family. I feel terrible for her- and can see her falling into a depression. I don't know what to do guys. Please tell me of any experience you have with this kind of situation? Is there any way I can fix it? I never in a million years want a divorce but it's breaking my heart to see her this way, and mine is breaking knowing I'll never have a complete family. Please help. 

tog redux's picture

Your wife needs therapy.  She's got a loving husband, from the sounds of it, and yet she's denying herself children for reasons that don't make sense, on the face of it.  Sounds like she's depressed, and depressed people have a lot of "thinking errors".

Please urge her to get some help.

susanm's picture

You said that she tells you not to buy her gifts, despite her giving you and your son gifts, and to just spend your time with your son.  Do you insist on giving her gifts and spending time with her or do you take her "permission" to devote yourself exclusively to your son?  While I question whether or not it is fair of her to "test" you, the reality is whether or not you have behaved as she expected you to and happily put your son first and foremost in your life while putting her firmly on the back burner.  If you have, actions speak louder than words and she would be correct in disregarding your protestations that she and her child would not be "second rate." 

Women do not go into a marriage believing that they are going to be unhappy and shoved aside for the rest of their lives.  When that happens it is a very unpleasant realization.  Something happened to make her feel this way and change her heart.  Think hard about what it was and whether or not it is fixable.  If you truely have not ignored her and focused only on your son then Tog, the writer above, may be correct and she could be in a depression.  But examine the objective facts first before deciding that is the reason or you will find yourself with yet another failed relationship.

NeedingAdvice's picture

It has gotten to the point where she practically refuses to spend time with me. I would love any children I have and I want more children. She is not second rate nor would any future children be. She is 24 and already trying to find a doctor to get a tubal ligation. Obviously at times we have to make sacrifices in our relationship because my child is my first responsibility but she should understand that. I truly love her and do my best to make her happy. 

beebeel's picture

How old is your son? How well does he behave? Does he have any responsibilities or expectations?

It's not unheard of around here for a new SM to be so turned off by her SK's behavior and her spouse's lack of parenting that she loses any desire to bring another child into a dysfunctional situation.

ldvilen's picture

What is her relationship with your son like?  What is your relationship with your ex- (your son's mother) like?  Do you treat your wife like your wife, or is she always expected to take a back seat?  I hate to say this, but I actually agree with her on this point, "She says she will always be the outsider."  Not that it has to be that way with a SM, but that it can so easily wind up being that way.

A couple of things seem to be going on here.  First of all, your wife may be depressed for other reasons.  She may feel unfulfilled for one reason or another, and this may or may not have to do with having a family if her very own, so to speak.  Hard to say.  Some women do feel their "firsts" were taken from them, so to speak, when they marry a man with children.  I don't feel that way, but I'm aware that some women do or do after the fact.  There are many things a newly married woman doesn't realize about being a step-parent that may not occur to her until down the road, when they are suddenly thrust in her face.  For example, she may start to notice that some people don't see her marriage as a "real" marriage or may not see her children as children to be "included."  It is a huge prejudice in our society that, yes, very unfortunately, a lot of people, non-step parents, will see your marriage as a sloppy seconds one, and perhaps even the children you have together as sloppy seconds, so to speak.  There is nothing you can do about it.  This is a PREJUDICE that our society and many in our society seem to have about second marriages.  The prejudice that only the first marriage, the one that first involved having children, really counts.  

The only thing that can change this prejudice is awareness of this issue, and this is why this site, Steptalk, is so important, because it raises awareness.  Awareness and time is what is needed to get rid of or minimize prejudices.  This can take years.  Apparently, your wife has become aware of the "sloppy seconds" mentality many have towards step-parents and their marriages.  And, I have to attest that when I, a single and never married woman, married a man with children, I just assumed my marriage would be thought of and treated as a full-fledged marriage, just like anyone else's marriage.  Years down the road, I realized the truth--far too many, BM, SKs, etc.--all felt they had the right to treat my marriage to my husband as nonexistent, whenever it suited their needs.  

So, several years down the road from my eye-opening experiences, I am now fully aware that there are people out there who actually think that a woman in the year 2018 is supposed to just happily settle for a sloppy-seconds marriage and "stay out of the way" and suck it up and take it and don't try to be a mom and so on and all of the other belitting advice that is out there for SMs.  My take on that advice?--they can shove it up their behinds.  I am my husband's wife, and anyone who can't seem to get that doesn't belong in my life nor my husband's life.  My husband feels the same way, but my husband, like so many DHs, is also somewhat of a coward when it comes to putting his foot down with his ex- or making things clear to his own now adult children or others.  

My DH and I have no children of our own, but if we did, I'm sure I'd be even doubly pissed about how they were thought of and treated, at times.  My marriage to my DH survives because I made the choice to just be involved only when I feel like it.  My DH hates to go to things with his initial family alone, because he himself is terrified of being solo in a room of false mirrors.  He wants me, his wife there, as his buffer, but it ain't gonna happen if I don't feel safe.  Kudos to you for asking for help and loving your wife.  But, I don't see any way you can force or even help your wife to see that there is a #1 future for her and any of the children you may have together, because you may get this and see her as your #1 wife, but your ex- may not get this and your bio-child may not get this, and many others may not get it, at least not yet.  

All you can do is tell her you will be there for her AND actually be there for her; treat her like the wife she is.  Treat your child like a child.  Treat your ex- like an ex-.  But, your wife has apparently already picked up on these societal nuances that her marriage to you is somehow lesser simply because you have children from a previous relationship.  She may have other issues going on too, that are contributing to her depression.  Counseling may help her sort things out more, but in reality, there are some in our society who will see her marriage to you and, yes, even any children she may have with you, as sloppy seconds due to prejudice alone, and that there is very little you can do about, other than get the word out to all what a truly harmful, unnecessary and prejudical line of thought that really is.

NeedingAdvice's picture

This comment was one that caught my eye as my wife from time to time refers to herself as sloppy seconds. She is always very nice to my son, buys him toys, I come home to find her sitting in the floor helping him with homework or teaching him how to beat all his friends at tic tac toe.  He is a well behaved child. I was never married to bio mom and had custody of my son for most of his life. Had my son when I was 15, and bio mom has been in and out of jail ever since. I one hundred percent agree how there are so many negatives associated with that second "marriage" so to speak. My mom lets my baby mama and her new man and child live with her- she will act kind to my wife's face but speak about her behind her back. My mother loves my son but always asks me if I've got my wife "knocked up" yet. I know that she knows my family hates her. There was a year or so where my ex had custody and I paid child support and wife had to take on most of the financial burden, and I often realize how wrong I did her (ex. taking her car to see my son and leaving her without a vehicle for a few days at a time) but I apologized for those things. Is that something unforgivable? I don't see that being the reason for all of these issues. She already takes antidepressants, but I will speak to her about returning to therapy. I appreciate your advice because I never really thought about how societal influences could effect her beyond our relationship. Thank you! 

beebeel's picture

Whoa whoa whoa. It's not society that's giving your wife this negative picture of her life. It's YOUR FAMILY. And apologizing doesn't do squat because it's ongoing. 

You have failed to protect your wife from your toxic, worthless ex and your toxic, nasty mother. You. Not society. You.

Why the f@$& would your wife want to get "knocked up" so your evil mother could treat her child just as horribly as she treats your wife?

NeedingAdvice's picture

I certainly don't let them speak to her like that, but I can't make them include her in family events, etc. I can only control people so much. 

ESMOD's picture

TBH.. with your mother so hostile to your new wife, I can also see how she feels 2nd rate.  What is your relationship with your mother?  Have you minimized contact with this person who has clearly sided with your EX vs you..(and your wife)?

If my family was dismissive of my husband.. I would not be interested in participating in any events with them.  No Christmas.. no holidays..nothing. 

Yes.. your wife probably needs some therapy.. but you and her also need counseling together to work through these things.  It sounds as if she is hurt and feels insecure due to treatment from others like your mom.  If you want this to work.. everyone needs to be completely open.

NeedingAdvice's picture

I try very hard to distance myself from my mom, however she has a great amount of control in my family and losing contact with her also means losing connection with a lot of people I actually care about. I tell her not to care about my mother because no matter what my mother says I love her and I only remain in contact with my mother to keep peace so I can be involved in my other family members lives. 

susanm's picture

Wow.  Are you hearing yourself?  No, you can not make them accept her but you sure as hell can tell them that if they continue to treat her poorly they can kiss you and your son bye-bye!  You have far more "control" than you apparently choose to exert.

The more you write, the clearer it becomes that you are the issue.  Your past behavior - stranding her without a car, making her carry your financial burden - may be something you "apologized" for but like I said above, actions speak louder than words.  You are still making it very clear to her that she is not your priority in any way.  Why on EARTH would she want to tie herself irrevocably to you with a child?

If you want to save this relationship then you need to examine what you are doing and make genuine changes.  Don't do it just to trap her.  Unless you really truly want to make her central to your life, above your family and every bit as important as your son, then have the heart to let her go and find someone who loves her and will make her their world. After everything she did for you, she deserves that.  

NeedingAdvice's picture

I have tried so hard to make up for my past mistakes. I've gotten so many gifts that have been rejected, proposed so many trips for our family that my wife rejected in fear of being "third wheeled". I have did everything I can think of trying to help rebuild any damage that has been done. I admitted to my mistakes and worked to fix them. I might've lost sight of priorities in the past but I've tried to prove to her in recent years how much I do love and prioritize her. I don't know what else I can do. 

susanm's picture

Here's a thought.  Ask HER what you can do.  Tell her that you fully realize how badly you have screwed everything up and that you are inches away from losing her but that you will do anything if she just gives you the chance.  And then do it.  No complaining.  No reservations.  Just do it.

If you are not willing to do that, fine.  Then let the poor woman go and find someone that fits in with your life.

NeedingAdvice's picture

You don't think I ask her? She always says "this is something I need to work out myself" or "I'm really okay". She rarely tells me when anything is wrong. It only comes out when she's having a breakdown. 

susanm's picture

Then it is either time for a "grand gesture" or it is already too late.  May as well try the grand gesture if you still want the relationship.

ESMOD's picture

how is she third wheeled when it is just the two of you?  Your son has another parent.. you have relatives.. take your wife on trips that show that SHE is a priority... maybe not all trips would exclude your son.. but you can certainly go away as a couple. my parents did my whole life.

NeedingAdvice's picture

Bio mother is currently in jail, most of my relatives live in a different state etc. She says she doesn't mind him coming a long that he is apart of my family. Just because I have a son doesn't mean she isn't a priority.

ESMOD's picture

If she feels he is part of the family.. how is she a third wheel then?  Maybe she really does feel like you exclude her when it comes to your son.  Also.. maybe if you won't cut ties with mom.. she can watch your son while you take her on a nice vacation?  Or..perhaps your son has a close friend and you could work out with another family that he could stay with.. maybe in exchange for you doing similar duty for them?  or bring another kid along on your trip so they can entertain each other..?

Siemprematahari's picture

Gifts and trips are not going to make things better. You can't buy her love with material things. She wants substance, she wants love, appreciation, understanding, and to be protected. You have failed her and need counseling if you stand a chance to save your marriage. She's little by little distancing herself from you. When she stops wanting to be intimate that will definitely show you just how detached she has become. You have to make her a priority!

She is your wife, your Queen, treat her as such.

shamds's picture

Unacceptable situations.

what she requires is support, you defending her when your family exclude her. You saying you can’t control others is an excuse. 

If you have family/kids excluding her from events, you don’t go!! Its that simple because any sane person would see on their own “hang on i’m here at this family event that my wife (my partner in life) is excluded from out of pettiness, jealousy etc and everyone is acting like its no biggie and its all fine. Well its not fine!!”

My husband had his 3 kids went visits on their own twice. 2nd time SS 20 messaged hubby saying he’s free saturday if want to meet up with his sisters (not me and our 2 young kids who are his half siblings, just his 2 sisters because he refuses to acknowledge us as family), hubby went along because he has been guilted by them and their mum kidnapping the girls and disappearing for 6 yrs with them, but this 2nd visit he told them these visits will no longer continue!! I am married with 2 new kids, they are family too and you expect visits but no concern whatsoever that i have a wife and 2 kids, you don’t care but act like we’re a happy family. Then you want and expect/demand i drive several hours picking you up and dropping you all off, thats at least 8 hours of a valuable weekend when reality is they ciuld have had valuable time at our home”

actions speak louder than words!! Don’t make excuses for others or for excluding your wife and treating her like a 2nd rate person, its like a slap in the face. What made you think you had the nerve and right to take away her car for your ex to use? How is that your problem?? Your wife should never have been put in that place in the first place

so next time shit happens, ask yourself should me or my wife be put in this situation in the first place? Is it fair?

NeedingAdvice's picture

Please read my later comments about my interaction with my family. I am only civil to those who do not like her at events we attend where the host likes both of us. We both find those rude people laughable. I do not attend events without her, she is never excluded.  Also, I meant ex. as in example, I used her car to go see my son. I have not spoken to my ex in quite some time. While your husband may have been guilted into putting his previous family before yours, I have no such relationship with my ex and one hundred and ten percent spend as much time with my wife as she lets me have. I hope your situation gets better, I certainly understand stepfamily life is hard. Best of luck to you. 

beastofburden's picture

Hang on... let me get this straight...

She's 24...

youve been married for 5 years... so she married you when she was 19??

Youve allowed your ex and your family to walk all over her position as wife.

 

For gods sake LET HER GO!! SHE IS WAKING UP TO HER MISTAKE AND SHE HAS A CHANCE TO HAVE A LIFE AND A FAMILY OF HER OWN... without you and your toxic mess you have roped her into... no wonder she's depressed.  

ProbablyAlreadyInsane's picture

My ILs suck some days. But not this bad.

If they're doing that s*** to your wife. It's called. You don't go to family functions unless they're treating YOUR WIFE as YOUR WIFE should be treated. Limit communication. Even tell them you don't like how she's being treated. Your wife own't stand up for herself becaus eit's your family. So that's your job. If she's not invited, fine. Then you don't go either.because clearly they're being disrespectful to her. Of course she's going to feel second rate.

ldvilen's picture

It is societal influences as well.  And, I as a sociologist can comment on that as being truth.  However, "My mom lets my baby mama and her new man and child live with her!"  Clearly your wife interprets this as a me vs. everyone else situation, and from the way your mom is acting, it doesn't sound like it is very far from the truth.  You should have been the one setting the boundaries with your own family from the very beginning.  No, you cannot control the fact that your mom allows BM to live with her, but you can inform your mother you won't be around her house any time soon.  You do have that power and control.  If you are going over to mom's with BM there and hanging out with them with your child, I don't blame your wife for being royally PO'd.  In this case, you are treating your mom and BM as more of a wife than her. 

You say you now realize how wrong you did her.  Well, it may be too late, and I can speak from my own experiences.  When I saw my husband throw me under the bus at a large family event about four and 1/2 years ago, I struggled with many different emotions and my marriage for a long time.  I felt like I was married to someone else's husband literally, and I realized I couldn't depend on him, or at least not in the same way I did before.  I realized I didn't have a 100% husband and at best, maybe had more like an 85% husband.  Maybe your wife doesn't also want to wind up with what some will see as a lesser, 85% child?  Because, in my mind, it was really like he just sat there and did nothing while a bunch of hoodlums were ganging up on me and threatening me (didn't matter if they were his relatives or not).   Yes, I know some would see that as an exaggeration, but when you see your own DH do something like that--he just sat there and let it go on (and in your case for a year or so)--how can you ever rely on him or feel the same way about him again? 

It is 4 1/2 yrs. later, and I still struggle with this, even tho. my DH and I are in a better place now.  And, I may have to struggle with this for the rest of my life--who knows when his family is going to whip something up or pull something, and, poof!, I'm thrown under the bus again and find myself alone, being ganged up on by family hoodlums and he stands there and does nada about it.  And at first, I pretty much did what your wife is doing--I just wanted to get away from everybody and think and deal with it on my own, because I sure couldn't trust him to do much about it!  He was running around acting like a wimp.  He apologized too, more than once, but his actions spoke more loudly than his words, and even now I still don't feel I can trust him to 100% have my back, and every and any spouse or long-term SO has the right to know that their SO will have their back.  For a single, never-married woman, why would you want to settle for an 85% or even 65% SO or husband?  Why not move on?  

Food for thought for you.  I suggest you both get counseling.  I went to counseling alone after the above incident, and the counselor did help me and validated my feelings, which I so desperately needed at the time, since my DH couldn't even imagine what I went through and what I was feeling.  I did tell my DH I was going to counseling alone and that I might bring him in at some point, but he seemed to start understanding a bit more, and I dropped bringing him in.  However, if I ever feel we need it, I won't hesitate to bring him into counseling with me.  I yet may.  I think you should both go, as I'm not sure you fully understand how it feels for a woman to see her husband cater to other family members like they all have his balls in their purse  Meanwhile, she is expected to suck it up and take it and settle for sloppy seconds.

TwoOfUs's picture

Don't forget the judicial system, too! 

Kids in a second marriage don't need any of dad's finances or other kinds support! That all belongs to his ex and his first round of kids. 

I get so fed up hearing stories on here about how so much of the husband's income is going to another household (money which the often not-remarried ex gets tax-free...while also getting to claim Head of Household, Earned Income Credit, and all Child Tax credits for those mutual kids) that the SM is essentially acting as a single mom within her own marriage. Meanwhile, the fully-supported ex poor-mouths it constantly and refers to herself as a "single mom" all while sucking her ex-husband dry. 

It's such BS. 

NeedingAdvice's picture

It is terrible how biased the judicial situation can be. However, I am one of the lucky ones and have full time custody (no nasty handoffs or contact with BM) and therefore pay no child support. There really needs to be a change in our judicial system to be more fair to fathers, and see these "single mothers" for what they really are. Thanks for your comment. 

lieutenant_dad's picture

I'd love for your wife to get on here and tell us her side. You paint a rosy picture of everything being fine except for her perception, and it's hard to know if the truth is hers, yours, or somewhere in between.

Something has changed to make her think that you won't devote the attention to her and your mutual child that she feels is deserved. That is either an insecurity on her part or a failing on yours. There is simply not enough information to know one way or the other.

I would suggest getting into couple's therapy. You're at a point where you two either need to come up with a plan to address the issue or go your separate ways. Your wife hasn't left yet because she is too sick to (afraid she'll make a bad decision if she does) or she doesn't have her ducks in a row yet. No one stays in a marriage like this long-term unless they have no escape.

NeedingAdvice's picture

I have tried to get her to go to therapy many times. I came here to get ideas on how to help the situation and I'm getting great advice. I honestly believe part of it is the failing health of her parents- she has many times told me that she isn't close to her extended family and once her parents are gone she will be alone. I offered to go to therapy because how do you feel like after your parents are gone you'll be alone? We are married. 

beebeel's picture

How? She's in a lonely marraige because you expect her to accept abuse from your mother/ex/son...anyone else with whom you are too afraid to have boundaries. She is lonely because the person who is supposed to love her the most doesn't give a shit about how she feels. He even tells her she needs therapy for feeling that way rather than do a damn thing about it.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

lieutenant_dad's picture

Well, based on what you said above, you let your own family railroad her, so she likely already FEELS alone with the exception of her parents.

Look, my DH was a teen dad. His XW moved in with my MIL. You know what he has done with his mother because of her poking and prodding in his life? Cut her off. He sees her at holidays and public events that she is invited to. I used to invite her over to spend time with my SSs until she started giving me hell. Now her contact is even more limited than before.

If my MIL EVER showed that she hated me or would be outwardly disrespectful to me, my DH would cut her entirely off. The ONLY reason she has contact with DH now is because I facilitate it. And she's wearing my hospitality thin.

You NEED to tell your mother NO. So long as she takes up your XGF, you won't be in contact with her. If you want a relationship with your mother, then you lose the one with your wife. If you want one with your wife, you lose it with your mom.

It is ABSOLUTELY NOT your DW's responsibility to keep tight-lipped and ignore abusive language from your family. YOUR MOTHER has been the one to be abusive with her language. She has chosen to take up with your ex versus with her son. That is on YOUR MOTHER, NOT YOUR WIFE. Your wife absolutely should not just tolerate it.

Your job is to keep your family in check and protect your wife from thwir harassment. Hers is to do the same with hers. You're failing, and your wife FEELS it. When her parents die, she has no one that will stick up for her 100%. You have shown her that you value your relationships with other family members over her. You will allow your mother to spew poison out about your WIFE, the woman you CHOSE to love and cherish and build a family with, in order to maintain contact with who exactly? Cousins? Siblings? Aunts and uncles? Your wife comes above them all, and if she doesn't, you need to let her go.

Your mother's poison and your lack of boundaries has caused this. Your wife is doing EXACTLY what you have asked her to do, and it's killing her spirit. Your MOTHER is the cause of the rift, and your continued selfishness to not lose contact with your family (who are equal adults or will be and can make their own decisions) will lose you your wife.

In short, your wife didn't cause this but she is paying the price. All she did was love you and your son, and her thanks has been hatred and vitriol from your mother that you permiss. Time to decide - do you stand by your wife and cut contact from family that harasses her, or do you allow your mother to continue her harassment so you get what you want at the emotional expense of your wife?

Choice is yours.

ProbablyAlreadyInsane's picture

I remember when my Dh got in a car accident. All I wanted to be was be with him. My MIL wouldn't let me. She ran off, leaving me with the kids, unsure of what to do with them... Finally got someone to give us a ride back to the house, I went to get into my car and go grab him. Got him back to the house, worried sick. My MIL yelled at me for coming to get him when I should "be a mother." I retored that my husband is my top priority and I got my SIL to watch the girls. It was stupid as he!!. DH said NOTHING.

Later that day I FINALLY convinced my DH to go to the hospital to get looked at (the car was totaled, he had bruises forming, was still bleeding on his thumb, etc.) MIL wanted to come. I was still pissed, but DH said "you can come." And so I bit my tongue. I got DH into the car and then ran back inside to grab something. I come back out. MIL and DH gone. MIL had told him the girls needed me and I was staying. She also had my SIL block in my car. I WAS LIVID.

I message DH pissed. He tells me they're already there, so I paced th front yard cussing under my breathe at how stupid this all was. They get home. My MIL gave me a lecutre on how "she's the mother!!!" And I informed her I was the wife and trumped her and she was going to have to get over herself. I was seeing red, I was done playing nice. DH sat there and did nothing, then told me I needed to calm down. MIL informed me that the mother is most important and went to bed.

I was pissed. I felt alone. My DH has done some amazing things. But how MIL treated me there. How DH didn't stand up for me. Being accross the country. I felt completely and utterly alone.

Moral of that story. Not stanidng up for her to your mom. Not putting her first. May make her feel like she is alone. It makes her feel that she's below her, that she doesn't really have the wife spot, just some kind of second place spot. I know going through stuff where Dh doesn't stand up for me, it does make me feel alone. It makes me feel unsupported. And I hate it.

Therapy is good yes. But unless you start completely standing up for her in situations like these, she'll always feel a bit alone.

ldvilen's picture

Yep!  Not only do SMs have to worry about the ex- acting like the main or still #1 wife, but they have to worry about SKs (particuarly SDs) and MILs trying to do the same as well.  "MIL informed me that the mother is most important and went to bed."  If you have a weak DH, one who supposedly "doesn't want to get in the middle," etc., that is how you wind up with 4+ women all competing for the #1 wife spot.  And who gets blamed for that pretty much every time?  SM does vs. milksop DH.  Any man who thinks that insisting others treat his wife like a wife is somehow "being put in the middle" needs to have his yam-bags checked.

ldvilen's picture

You feel like you are going to be alone, even tho. you are married, because your own husband has shown you that you cannot rely on him.  He has a child.  You do not.  You've seen the way his "family" treats you--like sloppy seconds--and you don't want to see a child of your own treated that way.  My dad is 91 with Alzheimer's and my mom is 86 with chronic leukemia.  Once they have passed, yes, I will feel alone even with my husband, because the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.  His children will take care of him, no matter what their relationship is.  Blood IS thicker than water.  I have no children of my own, and I know his kids won't feel any obligation whatsoever towards me.  

I saw my DH throw me under the bus in the past.  I saw him, with my own eyes, treat me as less than his wife in front of his own children and his ex- and many others.  I saw him go to family events and do his social diligence with everyone but me and then act like I was intrusive for simply wondering where my own husband was at.  I saw his fear of BM (or, in your case, your fear of your mother) appearing to be greater than his love for me.  Now that my parents are ill, I see him pulling back, not wanting to deal with the true nastiness of Alzheimer's and leukemia trmts. vs. him being there to support me.  I saw and see all of that.  And, yes, I saw him bring me flowers once in a while and apologize too.  But, how can you make up for years of neglect to your wife that you didn't see back then and still don't really see?  How can you make up for years of not getting it?  I don't know, and that is why, like your wife, I feel once my parents have moved on that I too am going to be alone.  And, I tell myself, we'll have to see how it all plays out then, and hopefully at that point, my DH and I will still have enough of a relationship to move on to together.

ProbablyAlreadyInsane's picture

Tbh, I'm not sure about having kids either... For similar reasons. Initially when I married my DH, I REALLY wanted a kid with him. An our child.

But the more and more I saw how messed up this whole situation is. The less I wanted to bring a kid into it. I don't like how his family handles things with the girls. I try and protect them, but then they go to the Psycho's and it's only worse there. I watch them suffer. We're struggling for money with all the debt the Psycho took out in his name during deployments... My morals means that I don't feel comfortable taking away the very little the girls have from them just so I could have a child. I refuse to watch them suffer any worse for the sake of having another child.

I spend a LOT of time alone right now. DH is in school, working, clinicals, etc. I don't want to raise any more on my own. Often it feels that I'm raising the girls, and the pets, on my own. I don't want another to raise by myself.

I honestly never wanted kids post meeting him. I figured I'd never even get married, just have a lot of dogs. LMAO.

While we may still have a kid in the future (pending some of this ridiculousness ends, and pending more financial stability. As of right now, I don't want one in this situation just yet.

While I don't think I voiced fully what's going on in my head. I kind of understand where she's coming from on not wanting a kid right now... She wanted kids though, I really didn't until I met him. So the situation feels a little different to me.

Also ignore her when she says spend all the money and not get her anything. Surprise her with a super cool present. She's trying too hard to put your kid first and is sacrificing herself in the process.

NeedingAdvice's picture

Im glad other women can relate to her even if she doesn't know it. She told me one day, crying, that with my past and my children that there "isn't enough time, energy, or love to go around". I hope you are able to have the children that you want someday, I appreciate you taking time to comment- I was worried we were the only people going through these problems. 

ProbablyAlreadyInsane's picture

Not even a bit. Send her on here. She'll find plenty of women that relate to her. Sometimes we all just need someone to listen, relate, and who's in a similar situation.

nengooseus's picture

From the sounds of it, your wife has been sucking it up and dealing for quite awhile now, and that her resentment toward you and the BS situation that you're allowing is growing by the moment.  My guess is that she's lining up her ducks to leave you--which is exactly what I would be doing in her shoes.  

You apparently married this woman so that she would make more babies with her and presumably to take care of your existing child, which you seem to have most of the time, based on your comments.  She has told you that she feels like sloppy seconds and you commented that your mother allows BM to live with her and that your family isn't nice to your wife, but that your family doesn't care for your current wife.  Are you really so naive as to think that any of this is OK?!

If you really gave a rip about anything other than your ability to procreate in this relationship, you would be standing up to your family about BM and the way that they treat your wife and cutting them off if they can't tow the line.  You would be asking her what she needs from you and working on building intimacy with her, because from the sounds of it, there isn't any here.  You would be begging her for forgiveness for neglecting her basic needs for your entire relationship.  Saying your sorry for burdening her financially and leaving her without a car for days isn't enough.  Are some things unforgivable?  Yep!

ESMOD's picture

Unfortunately, I think your wife feels like she has already seen what happens when the chips are down.  She has to have so many insecurities in this relationship with you.

1.  Financial.. when things got tough.. you paid child support.. took her car.. she paid the lion's share of the bills.  Don't you think that she can't look forward and think that if she were to have a child.. that you couldn't afford it?.. that she would tote the entire burden again.  You didn't even have a car of your own.. makes no sense to take on more financial burden by having another baby... and since your son already exists.. he comes first.

2.  Family... you won't cut ties with your toxic mother.. not just a garden variety toxic mother.. but one who literally houses your drug abusing EX????  You are an adult.. there is zero reason why you can't maintain relationships on your own with out her facilitating them.  Anyone questions you.. "Well, mom isn't nice to my wife.. and I can't have a relationship with someone that doesn't support me and my family.. including my wife".  Get those "good" relative's numbers and emails.. stop relying on your mother for maintaning those relatinships.  If they can't understand why you are not communicating with your mom.. then they are toxic as well... no loss.  And if you can't bring yourself to do this.. you are not all in your wife's side.. and you are perpetuating a situation that is painful to her.

3.  She is helping to care for a living breathing memento of a prior relationship.  Yes.. your wife sounds a bit insecure and fixated on not being able to do things with you "for the first time"... I understand a little bit about that jealousy .. that someone shared those things with my spouse prior to me.. but what you haven't beeen able to convincer of is that because  you love her and cherish her.. all these things will still be magical and special because you are doing them with HER...Counseling might help you both get past this hurdle.. but not without fixing 1 and 2 above.

4.  Buy your wife gifts.. this is not the time to "honor her wishes".. gee.. the only time you will put her first is when you honor her wishes by not doing something nice for her.  She feels she doesn't deserve it.. show her that she DOES.. that she matters to YOU.  You should have had a housewarming.. with HER friends and family.. leaving your toxic relatives out of the invite.  Perhaps she doesn't want you to buy her presents because she knows that you both really can't afford much.  Believe me.. I understand how I would constantly tell my DH that "I don't need anything" because we were fairly broke.. but dang it.. I wanted him to get me soemthing.. just didn't want to act selfish and ask for it.  I did ask for something this year.. and he did pull one out of the hat for me.. lol.

And.. don't blame her for "changing her mind".. she was what 19 years old when you got together?  She has been hit with a lot of reality in these 5 years.. and It's safe to say.. she has been shown that she doesn't deserve to have what she wants.  Please get into counseling with her because she deserves the chance to be happy.. if not with you,.,. with someone else.

NeedingAdvice's picture

I appreciate your advice, looking back now I realized I couldve done a lot of things better. Now that we are a bit more established we take an equal share in finances. We own a house now outright, we are almost completely finished paying off the cars.... we could afford another baby and then some. I truly love her and want her to be happy. While I have definitely made mistakes I can definitely say I've tried my best to make this marriage work. 

NeedingAdvice's picture

I think I might've spread the wrong message about my family. I only remain in contact with my mother so I can remain in contact with some of the family members who do enjoy being around me AND my wife. In the beginning they openly were rude to her, I put a halt to that immediately. Now they just want to gossip and not invite her to events. If she isn't invited I don't go. I openly call them out  when they are being rude with dirty glances or actively ignoring or interrupting her. but I'm actively trying to make sure she is treated right by my family who doesn't like her (part of which stems from my aunt -moms sister- getting arrested by her dad years ago before we met) so she can enjoy my family members who do like her. The family I do invite to be around us are the ones who like her- even as far as inviting her to go on a girls trip with some of my female relatives. I promise I do everything I can to make sure she is treated with respect by my family. 

lieutenant_dad's picture

You can't make people respect her. All you can do it cut those people off completely and totally. You may not like that solution, but that *is* the solution. Your wife didn't do anything to cause the disrespect, yet she pays the price of gossip, side glances, etc. You can stop it all by not having contact with those folks.

Either your wife is your priority or she isn't. You can't teter between the two.

beebeel's picture

No, you are not doing everything possible to protect your wife from your toxic family. This has been going on for years and "calling them out" has accomplished jack if it still happens.

No one is buying your argument that mom is the gatekeeper of all these other relationships with family members. 

NeedingAdvice's picture

She rarely sees my family, I can't fix all of these problems seeing them a handful of times a year. She has never even said that my family is a problem for her. She generally laughs at the hatred my mother has for her. 

beebeel's picture

You fix it by never again subjecting your wife to people who are hostile to her. Not five times a year, not once a year. 

SteppedOut's picture

Do you love her enough to let her go so she can be happy? If she really wanted kids before she still does, just not in this situation. If you really do love her, let her find the family she wants and NEEDS. 

susanm's picture

This guy isn't going to get it.  The wife is a nurse and apparently has her life together.  She presumably makes good money and is surrounded every day in the hospital by men who also have good careers.  She will be just fine once she decides it is time to leave him in the dust.

ESMOD's picture

I do feel badly for you in this situation.  Though I feel worse for your wife.  It's easy at 19 to go into relationships with stars in our eyes.. and we don't have enough life experience to understand when situations are just too big to get past.  Unfortunately, I think your wife has gotten a healthy dose of reality checks in the last 5 years.  She learned that "love is NOT enough".  All those hallmark movies are abject liars... you cannot live on love and one person's love does not make up for being in a crappy situation.  It's depressing... and that is why your wife is depressed.  Sure, she loves you but to love you she knows it comes with a heavy price.  It's not just the superficial.. "he experienced things before me".. it's the more meaningful level of he had a life before me and that life is the major cause of me having to give up on dreams that I had.. because having a child with you means more problems with your mom/family.. it means fewer resources and exposing her child to your EX etc...  It means even more contact with your mom..   Life with you also means she is limited in what she can do.  You and your son have health issues that are going to limit what you can do.. she loves to fish  and do outdoors things.. you and your son can't ... maybe she knows that if she had a child.. that maybe that child would have those health issues.. or that she would have to do all these things without you and that seems too daunting of a prospect?

Maybe it boils down to she thought she had a diamond in her hand at 19.. but now realize that there are a lot more flaws in the stone she is holding and that is making her hesitant to have a child which is a permanent tie... Everything you describe about her seems to scream out that she is depressed and is having anxiety over her life... and it's the parts of life that involve you and your family that are causing this. 

Love is not enough.

You can't cut your mother off.  I actually understand why you would say that.. it's a very high stakes situation for you.. your son and your wife.  Unfortunately.. if you truly cannot be 200% team DW.. and are sitting there with one foot in your mother's camp to keep the peace.. maybe that's not good enough for your wife?  Now, maybe some women would be able to deal with this.. but your wife apparently isn't one of them.  You can try counseling but it may jusst be that you are not the two right people to be with each other.. no matter how much you love her and how much she thinks she loves you. 

NeedingAdvice's picture

She admits that's one of her problems. She always tells me it'd be different if she had kids.  She says she can never feel secure in this relationship because at the end of the day I have a family and she doesn't. When she was younger she had college offers from Harvard, Princeton, etc and stayed because of her parents. Now she says she's given up any dream she has of moving because of my sons need to stay near my family. I came here trying to find ways to sympathize with the fact she feels this insecurity. While I can understand it, I can't feel it and I don't know the right things to say. Never in a million years do I want a divorce. I love her so much and have almost completely stopped contact with my family other than to keep contact between them and my son. I'm so happy and in love with her and I really believe this family would work if she'd just listen to me. I know love can't save all but I really feel like this could work. I want her to know this relationship is special even though I was in a relationship with my ex, this marriage is special, a pregnancy would be special, a child of ours would be special but she has completely shut me out. The only issues she says is she feels guilt about taking away from my child and that she'll always be second place. I was truly looking for words of wisdom to help console her and advice from people who've been through the same thing. Thank you for understanding how difficult a situation like this could be! 

ProbablyAlreadyInsane's picture

I guess I'm confused. Why doesn't your son "have to stay near your family"? I truly believe fmaily is important. But I think dead dreams hurt a lot more than moving so your wife can have more of a life. The distance honestly might do some good.

Families move away from extended fmaily for one reason or another all the time. The kids adjust, they make friends. trips are planned to see the other fmaily upon occasion. 

Maybe you should look at options to move somewhere she can feel fuffilled? Trust me when I say that feeling unfufilled is one of the biggest things to attack a woman's self esteem. Because at that point, tehy feel unaccomplished, they feel uninportant, otherwise they'd have the support to accomplish their goals.

She feels guilt for taking away from the child, because she probably feels like a nuisance. Someone may have said something to her, MIL, your son, BM, etc. She doesn't feel good enough for one on one itme with you. Like she's important enough for you to move so she can accomplish something.

There needs to be a balance. I promise you kids are resillent, they can adjust.

NeedingAdvice's picture

I have told her I'm willing to move. She says she doesn't think she can do that to my son. He was very shy and introverted and often bullied at school. She has been arranging play dates with co workers kids so he finally has friends. I say he will adjust she argues that he just now has created some sort of friendship and stability without being passed around. Again, either way I lose. She has told me she feels like a nuisance, I tell her I want her to go places with us, she replies that I don't have to pity invite her when I'm not. She ends up making some weird excuse like her mom brought her a shirt and really wants her to come try it on today. 

ProbablyAlreadyInsane's picture

So what if you did research about areas you know has things she likes. And then you also find highlights why it's good for your kid?

Also invite her one something just you and her. Find a sitter for your son. Surprise her and whisk her off. She needs to feel involved in the marriage, not just in you and your son's relationship. Focus on just the two of you!

nengooseus's picture

"I'm so happy and in love with her and I really believe this family would work if she'd just listen to me."

Yep.  That sums it up.

NeedingAdvice's picture

Yes, it's hard to explain someone you care about them when your efforts are recieved with blind eyes and deaf ears. A brick wall isn't keen on communication. 

Major Blunder's picture

1)  Your wife needs to come to this site , not you.  Even though in your mind you had good intentions, you will not get a fair shake here, you will be picked apart even if in reality you are a good guy, here you're the spineless Disney Dad, not a good title here.

2)  IMHO it sounds like she has already checked out but doesn't have the courage to pull the trigger, if you want to do right by her be a man and end the marriage, that is what she really wants but doesn't know how without looking like the bad guy, take the bullet for her and allow her to move on to the happy life she deserves.

3)  If you won't end the marriage for her then you need to cut all the toxic family out including "Mommy Dearest", if other family members what anything to do with you and your wife they will come to you on their own accord, your Mommy doesn't control the world, even if she believes she does.

4) Finally, quit putting your kid first, your spouse comes first in the family, all children come second to the spouse, repeat , repeat, repeat.  Man up already !

ProbablyAlreadyInsane's picture

6) little things that show you care. Surprise her with flowers, chocolate, heck, her favorite candy bar. Cook her favorite meal, Just go up and give her a hug and tell her how much you love her. It'll make her feel special. Getting attention to just her and telling her how much you love and appreciate her, ignoring the outside. That'll make her feel amazing.

NeedingAdvice's picture

I appreciate the advice so much! I have tried all of those things and she's just not receptive. If I tell her I'm really having an issue she will do her best to be "happy" for a day or two then it goes back to the way it was. 

ProbablyAlreadyInsane's picture

Keep trying. Just little things. You could buy her new pillows too. That sounds silly, but my Dh did it for me out of the blue and I felt so special and taken care of (but not in an obnoxious way).

She may not feel it's sincere if you're telling her you're having an issue with her being sad. Show her it's consistent, that she can count on you always being affectionate. That she's your whole world.

I know a lot of us feel forgotten when it comes to our spouse's kid. Like our needs are secondary at best. So show her that she's your top priority, that you'll always do little things. I'm willing to bet she'll reciprocate and do similar in time.

ESMOD's picture

RE #6... In family life there are always competing needs.. wants.. priorities.  Yes, your minor son relies on you to care for him.. feed him.. keep him safe.  BUT.. the priority relationship in the home is the one you have with your spouse.  THAT relationship comes first...it comes before your son's lesser need to have a relationship with his toxic grandmother (and any other relatives).  To the extent possible it means having a home where both the adults can be most fulfilled...location may not be as convenient to your mom.. but you said most other relatives don't live in the area anyway.  Maybe your wife does feel limited by the tether you say your son has to the area?  I don't know what your CO says about you being able to move.. but an incarcerated mother seems like an even bigger detriment to him than anything else!

Loving your wife.. outwardly.. and unashamedly to all around you and making time for her.. "no son..DW and I are talking right now.. go play"... finding a way to take her on trips without your son needing to be there every time... Maybe coming up with new experiences that you didn't have with your EX... and doing things with her for the FIRST time.. and whatever you do... don't talk about things you ever did with the EX.. and if others bring that crap up.. shut it down.. "gahhhh  don't remind me... that was such a nightmare time in my life".

In the end, it might not be enough.. your wife may well have mentally checked out.  Too little too late and all.

But, there is nothing that you do that supports your wife that will hurt your son... in any meaningful way.  "why don't we go to grandma's house?"  "Unfortunately, she isn't very nice to me and DW... and until she can be nice.. we can't go see her"

lala-land's picture

In summary, from your descriptions of your wife....she works full time as a nurse, goes to school in her spare time. When she has time off, she spends it with her dad doing activities that neither you nor your son can participate in, she does not want children with you, she does not want gifts from you, your mother is disrespectful of her and houses your ex GF and her boyfriend, etc.  It certainly sounds like this relationship has run its course and is not working for her, in spite of the fact you still want to be with her.  She also sounds like a kind person, but she doesn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings.  Have you asked her about a trial separation?  Maybe she needs time alone to sort herself out.  Why not give her that gift? You both are young and she needs to find someone that she does not feel like sloppy seconds to be with (sloppy seconds...what an awful term and even more awful to feel that way about yourself).

NeedingAdvice's picture

I have definitely asked her about a trial separation. I feel so guilty because she's upset and I can't fix it. I asked her about a break, she asked me what she hasn't done for me, why would I want this? I informed her this is not what I wanted, but I could tell she was obviously upset. Its so hard for me to understand why she feels so bad about herself, like either way I fail.

CLove's picture

She just sounds REALLY burned out. Working as a nurse and then school, and then caring for her family.

Shes probably tired, and burned out and stressed. Leading to depression. Shes young. She wanted children. She states that she "feels guilty about taking time from #1 child" that all sounds like a cry for help in my opinion. None of your suggestions for getting help, for time away for just you two are getting through. She needs a break, a rest. Therapy would also help, but you cannot force her to do this if she refuses. 

I am the 2nd wife, and he insists that everything is better with me. I was VERY insecure about this for the longest time, especially since I dont have children of my own. "shes the mother of your CHILDREN (read GU) and I cannot give you that, therefore I am less somehow". I am NOW at the point where I am more secure, and feel pretty ok with his family. They were angy that we eloped, and told him, Ive gotten some cold shoulders, but I always know that DH is ALWAYS team CLove all the way, here and back again.

Shes very young. She feels how she feels. Super young to be taking on a child and raising him, taking on the financial stress...

Like I mentioned above - I think she is really burned out trying to be everything and do everything. She sounds a little OCD? So her perfectionist self wants to stick it out and make it work - anything less would be failure in her eyes.

I would not panic - if she definitely doesnt want divorce, and shes in this major funk, you must ride it out. It seems like she is pushing you away, only to get upset when you want to give her space.

I am worried about the family members however. Them being involved in her life might have affected her self-esteem more than she is letting on.

All I can think of that would be helpful is to suck it up, ride it out. See if the brick wall softens to your insistence on giving her presents and having a child together. You made a vow, and she ALSO made a vow. So, keep trying to get through, keep being sweet and saying how much you appreciate her.

NeedingAdvice's picture

I encourage her to take breaks, she refuses. She wants to move up and become a nurse practioner so is working on her degree and continuing to gain experience in her field. She has been diagnosed with OCD, and is medicated for that and depression. I tell her that our relationship is better, she refuses to believe me. I'm always hit with the "you'd still be with baby mamma if she wouldn't have partied all the time/cheated on you" stuff. It's so hard to keep saying the same things to people who just don't seem to listen or care. I appreciate your advice, I'll continue trying to get through to her. Thank you. 

still learning's picture

Your wife is never going to be happy in a marital relationship with you.  Too much drama and her needs will never be met. Do the kind thing, get a quick divorce and let her go.  

Chmmy's picture

I read your post but didnt have time to read the all of answers. My situation is different in that I have 2 bios and DH has 4. I will not have a kid with him for several reasons. One is I see him with his kids...that will not be the father of my child. He is a terrible father.  I also will not subject a child to that family. My kids are grown & moved out before I married but no child of mine is growing up the house with the skids. My kids grew up very differently from my skids and I like it that way. My kids are more talented & successful than his could ever dream of...unless things change(they wont).

Also I'm not sure this marraige is going to last. I dont want to bring a chikd into a marraige Im not so sure of. If you cant tell, i cant stand the skids and it doesnt end at 18 with skids like these. Most likely 3 of the 4 wont amount to anything and the one who is semi responsible is a bitch so I can see her being unemployable in the future. There is only so long I can deal with this and i regret getting married.

Your wife can feel any of these things but only you know your relationship. This may sound harsh. I was straight up honest with my DH that I wont bring a child into this house.

NeedingAdvice's picture

I guess she has a similar view. Her parents got married when they were 18 and 19. She says it's hard for her to feel like a family when her parents are what gave her the idea of what family is like. Two people together forever, and it doesn't feel right to bring a child into an already "broken" family(my ex, son, and I). She is the only child, and her parents always made choices together. In a discussion we had she told me that marrying me was supposed to make her life better but all it did was make choices and close doors for her. So while it's different than your situation it's similar.. she's worried about this marriage and a weird family dynamic. 

ldvilen's picture

Someone above mentioned another good point too, and that is that I wouldn't want a child of my own hanging out around druggie BM and her BF and more than likely, other druggie friends, AND w/them living with MIL, it is inevitable that any of OP and his wife's children would be in that environment!  Yes, I know every family has a couple of "former" felons or druggies here and there, but for step-parents, it adds yet another layer of complexity: You married this man; yet, his former druggie lover/ BM and her cronies are permitted to and will be hanging out with him and you and any of your children together at MIL's!?  Geesh, when you think about it, when is enough enough for this woman?  When is enough enough for any woman in this type of situation.  We all have baggage, but in a step-situation, that gets doubled, and in her case, because of MIL's and BM's strange antics, OP wife's is now tripled.  Why in the H- would you want to bring a child of your own into that?  

NeedingAdvice's picture

I would certainly not bring my child with her around them. Since I was 15 when I had my son I lived with my mother and they had a relationship- I didn't want to hurt him by ending that relationship. She watched him most of the time as I was still in school, etc. I don't associate with my child's mother and he hasn't except for a year of his life. She hasn't seen him in quite some time- I see no reason why our child together would be "poisoned" by her or my mother. On the other hand my wife's parents love children.  My MIL worked her entire career as a child abuse investigator for the state. My FIL has been a police officer his entire working life. Both MIL and FIL fostered countless children. MIL even got a teaching degree on top of her masters in social work so she could provide tutoring to in need children. That is what I plan to bring our child into- not into my mother and ex. Thank you. 

ldvilen's picture

I guess either I'm getting confused or my BS-dar isn't working?  What did you mean by this line above, then, "My mom lets my baby mama and her new man and child live with her- she will act kind to my wife's face but speak about her behind her back"?  I'm starting to get miffed by your so-perfect answers to not-so-perfect stmts.  In another statment above, you now mention that your wife has OCD in addition to depression.  Why wasn't any of this mentioned earlier? 

I'm sure you'll have a by-the-book response, but personally, anyone who says this in once sentence, "My mom lets my baby mama and her new man and child live with her- she will act kind to my wife's face but speak about her behind her back."  And, then says this later, "I see no reason why our child together would be 'poisoned' by her [BM] or my mother," is sounding very wishy-washy.  You mean you would never permit your child with your wife to ever be alone with your mother?  And, why should this even be something your wife would have to worry about to begin with?  Even if my DH promised me that my child would never be alone with any of his "quesionable" relatives, there'd be no way I'd trust that.  This site is full of broken promises from DHs, and since by your own admission you still flutter around your mom, I'd imagine down the road you'd "forget" and have your mom taking the child and babysitting 'em and then tell your wife she is over-reacting when she states, "You promised me your mom would never be alone with our child"!!

Again, you don't need to respond back with a defensive perfect response.  But, right now I'm not so sure what your motivation is for coming here?  Doing research?  So you could twist some of these responses to pat yourself on the back that you are 95% right and your wife is 95% wrong?  I don't know. . .?  I only know right now my trust is going out the door.   "My mom lets my baby mama and her new man and child live with her"--that was either the truth or a lie.  If it is the truth, then how can you now say with a straight face, "I see no reason why our child together would be 'poisoned' by her [BM] or my mother."  If it was a lie, then anything you say here is suspect.

I don't know.  Starting to sound to me like you are both playing--playing that you still want to be married to each other; hoping the other is the 1st to push the button.  I find it hard to believe to that as a nurse she would to just blow off counseling, as in "why bother"?  It'd be like blowing off getting trmt. for cancer, as in "why bother"?  Sounds like she has accepted the inevitable and is waiting for the final drop/ you to draw up the papers.  Just saying.  

NeedingAdvice's picture

I don't even let my mother now watch my child. She did when I was younger and in school but now I try to maintain a civil relationship so she will talk on the phone with him, be excited to see him at events, wish him happy birthday etc. I do not agree with who she has at her house and the condition her house is in- so by no means does my child go there. My wife's mental health issues have been treated well for years, and she believes that they are in control. I didn't find it an issue until it was brought up. 

Gucci's picture

My DH has completely kicked his mother and grandmother out of his his life because they were beyond disrespectful to me and my children. He put me above everyone, as he should. And as you should have done with your own wife. He never once worried about family not seeing his children, and even if BM dies, there are family members that will not see his sons until they are 18. He chose ME. He chose OUR FAMILY. You should take notes. 

blayze's picture

To Mr. NeedingAdvice, you took a bit of a beating here in this thread and you managed to stay civil, gracious, and levelheaded, unlike many posters who show up here. Your temperament is shining through a lot. It would be great if you invited your wife to come here, but even if you don’t, I just want to give you kudos for taking all this advice like a champ! You may not be able to mend the past, and your wife might not be able to get over how she feels... but I suspect that either in this relationship or the next one, you’ll know exactly how to balance your partnership with your parenting. You’re on the right path. Good luck to you. 

NeedingAdvice's picture

I never thought so many women could relate to her. I was honestly so surprised and while it sounds horrid, I was honestly happy to know people other than us have experienced these issues. I will certainly inform her of this place- a lot of the advice I received was very helpful. Maybe someone who can relate will do her good. Thank you! 

2Tired4Drama's picture

If you love her as much as you claim to, then let go of her so she can live a happy life.

You are nothing but a prison for her.  It is a form of abuse to try and keep her when she has told you that she is terribly unhappy.  

Let. Her. Go.  The way you do it is for YOU to go and file for divorce.  For whatever reason, maybe guilt or feelings of obligation, she hasn't been able to do so herself.  But make no mistake - she is already divorced from you both emotionally and physically.

Don't be responsible for wasting another day of this woman's life.  Be a courageous man and do the right thing. 

SecondNoMore's picture

I honestly think this whole thing is made up. Girl 'recruited' by Ivy League schools opts to marry guy from trash family who had kid at 15 with a drug addict who stays at his mom's house when she's not in jail... And her parents got married at 18 and 19 but are somehow now elderly even though she's only 24. I mean, I know people can get sick at any age but at oldest her parents are in their 60s and that would have required them to have been married 20-something years before they had a kid. The whole thing sounds ridiculous, but if it's not, this isn't a big mystery. OP married a kid and now that kid is coming to her senses and realizing the situation sucks. She's depressed because it's no fun to feel trapped and that's how she feels.

NeedingAdvice's picture

Her parents are in their sixties. They struggled with having a child and they always talk about how she was their miracle after years of medical treatment. Her grandfather on her dads side died in his car at the age of 40.. her dad has already suffered three heart attacks. Her uncle already died of heart problems. She chose to stay around her family. My family is not reflective of me, nor are the mistakes I made at 15. Thanks for your advice. 

Winterglow's picture

It's not so impossible. We were together for 20 years when I had my daughters at age 42. We hadn't planned on having children at all and it was a surprise pregnancy. My daughters are now 16. When they're 24, I"ll be 66 and dh will be 71.

jrobin13's picture

I won't lie; I didn't read ALL of these comments, but there do seem to be a lot of valid points.

Honestly, when I first read your post, I found it relatable.  I am soon to be married to a man with an 11 year old daughter. BM is extremely intrusive, manipulative, and controlling.  His family plays along with her antics much of the time for fear she will turn the child against them.  I don't know if this will provide you an insight into your wife's feelings, but here are my own similar thoughts/feelings that I struggle with:

I want a child, but I am so afraid to have one because I believe my child will be put second to SD.  How could it not?  So much time is consumed making sure she is not further damaged by her mother.  Not to mention, I feel that our relationship itself is devalued because it's his second marriage.  These feelings for sure cause me to behave in ways to convince myself that I DON'T want children- I shy away when friends and relatives ask me to hold their children and I even hear myself expressing disgust over children.  I look at my 401K daily and read financial articles so that I can retire early because if I don't have children, look at all the money we will have!  I recognize this as absolutely ridiclous and dangerous thought process, but I STILL DO IT.

I am in a different boat because my soon be DH is content with one child.  He is not opposed to more, but he is content.  I think what would make a difference for me is if he convinced me that he really wanted more children with me and that my child would be loved just as much as the first.  It does sound like you are doing your very best to give your wife this same assurance.  Perhaps some couple's therapy would help facilitate some constructive communication?

 

NeedingAdvice's picture

I really appreciate your reply, it was very insightful to how my wife may be feeling. I can certainly understand how you could feel that way. I do not see my child's mother, and do not see relatives who dislike her except at events where we are invited by people who do like and respect her. She says many of the same things as you do (the devalument-is that a word?- and the fear of our child being put second). I try to give her the assurance that she needs, but nothing seems to work. I am trying to convince her to join me in counseling. I appreciate your advice, and hope the issues you described above in your own life can be worked out. thank you! 

Rags's picture

Your bride  has issues.  I would say that she is even fucked up.

Time for the sit down come to Jesus meeting to inform her that she needs help and to make it clear that you want more children. If she can't get on board with both of those, you should be looking for a new life partner who is a better fit for you and she one who is a better fit for her.

Your DW needs to find a partner without prior relationship children.

Take care of you.

 

still learning's picture

He needs to man up and tell the little lady it's all about his needs, what he wants, and that she needs to get barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen now!  Screw how she feels about not wanting to bring a child into a dysfunctional family with crazies in every corner.  

With all due respect Rags, that is just F'd up.  The more this guy posts the more I feel for his wife who married the wrong guy. She rightfully doesn't want to bring children into a situation that isn't ideal. he should have just stuck it out with his ex and they could have lived with his mom happily ever after.   Sometimes it's not meant to be and this is one of those situations.  Bringing a child into this mess of dysfunction with a depressed mother would be disasterous for everyone.  

Rags's picture

That is in no way what I said or meant.  She is playing the martyr on a daily basis.  She wanted kids, she laments not having them, and now she is playing the martyr to choices she is making that the OP is not apparently participating in.

This is not about having or not having more children IMHO. It is about getting the OPs SO some help that will align the marriage for success.  Of course she can change her mind about having children.   But to play the martyr, blame the OP for having children before he even knew she existed, and blame the OP for her chosen perspective... nope. Not a sustainable relationship IMHO ... at least without significant professional intervention.

Hence, get her into therapy.

I have no issue with people wanting kids, or not.  For me this is a non issue.  I love kids but have never had any overwhelming need to have children of my own... biologically.   I would not end an otherwise healthy marriage over a disconnect regarding wanting any or more kids.  However, failure to make an effort to get counseling to address a martyr complex and to be able to discuss a disconnect regarding have joint children without the nutso drama certainly would have me question the viability of a marriage.

That is why I suggested that if the OP and his SO are not aligned on the kid issue yet they both apparently want more children... they may need to go shopping for new partners.

Just my thoughts of course.

ldvilen's picture

Rags, that is the way the OP is spinning it, “She is playing the martyr on a daily basis.”  To me, they are both sounding wishy-washy.  From what the OP has stated here, I agree and you say, “It is about getting the OPs SO some help that will align the marriage for success.”  However, just recently, now the OP is saying, “My wife's mental health issues have been treated well for years, and she believes that they are in control. I didn't find it an issue until it was brought up.”

So, yeah, first the depression is brought up, then the OCD, and now it’s, “My wife's mental health issues have been treated well for years . . .”  Well, what is it then?  Are the OP’s wife’s mental health issues a real issue or not?  In one breath they seem to be and in the next they seem to, “have been treated well for years,” and seen by the OP as a non-issue.

Nonetheless, I agree with you on this, “If the OP and his SO are not aligned on the kid issue yet they both apparently want more children... they may need to go shopping for new partners.”  Regardless, they are not communicating well, and none of us here have the experience to provide genuine therapy to either the OP or his wife.  For that, they need an outside, blended family counselor or therapist—and one who will be able to read between the lines of both partners’ stmts.  If either of the couple refuses to see a counselor, then, yes, you are pretty much forced to go your separate ways, especially if he wants kids and she doesn’t want kids with him.  If, that is a real issue.

Rags's picture

Thanks for clarifying some of the 150+ comments in this thread.  I quit reading them one by one quite a while ago.

This is not a healthy relationship for the OPs wife. That is obvious.  

The more I learn regarding this situation, the more obvious that it becomes that it is time for them both to move on.

Thanks again.

Sincere regards,
Rags

Monkeysee's picture

When I first read your post, the only thing I could think is your wife sounds checked out of this marriage and is likely either planning an escape, or is too afraid to leave. Either way, she doesn’t sound like a woman who’s committed to being in this marriage. 

I don’t think it will matter how many gifts, surprises or grand gestures you make, none of it is going to help her fall back in love with you because she’s decided she can’t have the life she wants in this relationship. 

I know you love her, I think the kindest thing you can do for her is to let her go. I don’t see it getting any better. 

I do commend you with the level-headedness you’ve responded to these comments above, I’ve read most of them. I agree with a lot of the responses you’ve gotten to a point I have to say.

I think too much has happened over time and it’s pushed your wife away. If my DH has taken my car and left me for days to visit his kids, while I was supporting him financially, and while also being abused by his family while he kept the peace, I’d be checked out too. It’s a lot for a person to deal with, and no surprising it’s had a negative impact on your wife.

Reality is, your wife does want kids, she just doesn’t want them in this relationship. You want more kids, but your wife doesn’t want them with you. The only way both of you are going to get what you want is if it’s with other people. IMO of course, but it seems pretty clear from the outside this is where things are headed. 

SteppedOff's picture

Your wife has one foot out of the door struggling to match the other. She is gone other than physically living there. Some of us here can read this and know exactly where she is. 

From what you have told, much has happened to get her there and you have been all but too late, and honestly, have not done things completely to show her you are sorry and serious about turning it around for her...you have only done superficial, easy stuff. She is checked out Mister.

‘You have indicated you have done everything to repair your relationship...you have not. Your mother, the poison spreader, should have been removed from your life if your marriage was that important to you. The excuse that you maintain the relationship to have one with other family members is as sick as your mother is! If people wouldn’t have a relationship with you because you no longer allowed an unhealthy one with your mother are sick also and why would having a relationship with a bunch of sick people be more important than your wife? Not trying to be nasty, Needing, just honest insight.

It is perfectly, sanely understandable why your wife is depressed and suffering. It is highly unlikely at the point you describe that your marriage can be repaired and saved to be healthy. I hope your wife can find the courage to completely remove herself from this unhealthy situation and get help to get through, understand where she has come from and where she is going. I hope you do the same and to start by unloading your SICK mother to stop he poinsonous spread. 

NeedingAdvice's picture

Please read earlier where I mention I only see my mother at places where my wife is respected (for example my cousin who is like a best friend to my wife's baby shower)I have not had a good relationship with my mother for many years. My wife encouraged me to build a relationship with my mother but I declined. I really don't see what excuses I'm making other then I want my son who was mainly raised by my mother when I was in school to still have interaction with her so I remain civil. I came here to get advice on how to repair our marriage. If what I've done is superficial do you have any ideas that are not superficial? If you've been in her situation, what could your significant other have done to make it better? I appreciate your advice. Thank you. 

beebeel's picture

We can't tell you how to help your wife, because you keep changing the storyline (sorry "adding information"). 

Send your wife here to us. Maybe if we hear her side of the story, we can find some clarity.

Monkeysee's picture

I think once someone is checked out, they’re checked out. 

If you want to keep trying, then do what some have suggested. Book a weekend away for just the TWO of you, regardless of what your wife says about including your son. You NEED to make her THE priority. End of. 

Also, listen to what she’s saying, and also what she’s NOT saying. Actually listen to her. Pay attention & she might actually give you clues about what she wants or where the issues genuinely lie. 

Give yourself a deadline and if nothing has changed by then, do HER a favour & let her go. It’s not what you want to hear, I get it. But your wife is deeply unhappy, and you need to accept there might not be ANYTHING you can do to give her what she really wants. Which (I’m guessing), is a relationship with a childless man & inlaws who don’t have this level of drama. You can’t give her those things, no matter how much you might want to. 

If that’s the case, I hope you love her enough to cut her free. 

NeedingAdvice's picture

Because of everyone's advice I am looking into booking a getaway now. I am hopeful that I can save my marriage, and appreciate you taking the time to give me advice, thank you. 

ldvilen's picture

Some tend to think that when they apologize, that should be it—it should be over.  However, it is over when the one who has been damaged believes it to be over. 

Here are some interesting comments I found about apologies or not: Apologies apply to mistakes. One makes amends for bad decisions.  If you stole money, saying you're sorry is far less helpful than writing a check.  The example can be extended to many situations.  Have you just apologized or have you also made amends?  I think the “amend” part is a crucial point that many miss. 

And, sometimes the harm broke trust. When that happens, the relationship is permanently changed. An apology puts a smiley-face Band-Aid on a sucking chest wound.  Just because one apologizes it doesn’t mean, 'Good, I apologized, let’s move on now.'  In order for things to move on, again the one who has been damaged has to believe it is over.  I don’t think your wife believes it or the behavior that led to it to be over.

You can argue with us over and over, but pretty much every woman here, who is a SM just like your wife, is telling you she ain’t over it yet, and she may never be.  She may even be trying to hold on the marriage by deluding herself into thinking that being a NP, wife and SM to your child will be enough for her and even trying to force that with a tubal ligation.  I think way back when, you killed a part of her spirit somehow.  That’s a hard thing to rectify, no matter how many apologies you give or roses you hand out. 

Other than counseling, I’m not sure what the answer is?  Maybe you are both stuck now with the earlier damage that has been done?  I get that you were young and made mistakes you now regret—haven’t we all—but in real life, waving an apology-wand over all of the hurt and pain and backstabbing doesn’t always work and usually doesn’t.  Just like you can’t force someone to love you, you also can’t force someone to trust you.  That has to come from their own heart.  I see that she still loves you, but her trust of you is pretty much Pfft.  And, a psycho-therapist may even have a good argument here that she is “unconsciously” getting the tubal ligation to punish you (like you did her, way back when).

What is really going on here?, like others have said, is anyone’s guess at this point.  Best of luck, sincerely, to both you and your wife.  I get that you didn’t mean to hurt your wife way back when, but once you piss all over a diamond, sometimes the stain remains, and it is not as shiny as it once was.

NeedingAdvice's picture

I have tried to make amends, until now with others saying she probably isn't over it I believed we made amends for mistakes I've made. She said I was forgiven many times over so it's hard to tell what is her just saying that and when she actually means it. I have been trying to convince her to join this site since there are so many stepmoms who can relate to her, and many women here who already seem to understand and try to support her without knowing her.  Furthermore, I have been taking everyone's advice and we have discussed going to counseling together: hopefully she will come around in time. I appreciate your good wishes and advice, thank you.