Four Years Later...
I am four years disengaged from two out of three SDs with full support and understanding from DH (married 12 years), though we both agree this makes us terribly sad. In spite of the sadness, this has been the best decision for me and ultimately even for DH. We probably would not still be married if I had stayed engaged in the emotional meat grinder that was my "relationship" with his two younger PAS'ed daughters (now in their early 20s). OSD (23) is lovely, no issues with that relationship whatsoever. She's a recent college grad, self-supporting, very connected to DH, thoughtful, mature, etc. Couldn't ask for a more wonderful young woman. She's very frustrated with her sisters, doesn't like the way they treat DH or me, but doesn't want to get involved in other people's drama. It's tough, but it's been working reasonably well for the past four years.
Fast forward to last month when DH was with all three SDs for OSD's college graduation. Somehow the topic of coming to visit us (we live a few states away) came up and DH once again stressed that, while that would be a nice goal to work towards, there was much damage that needed to be repaired first. When he can't avoid the topic altogether (which is what I have requested) he always tells them the textbook, "She's my wife and I love her and it's hurtful to me that you are disrespectful of the person I love, it hurts her, and it isn't fair," party line that we established in counseling and that has rang true for us over the years. Normally this falls on deaf ears and nothing comes of it except more of the same distance between him and MSD and YSD, but this time, MSD reached out to me. A couple of weeks after DH visited them, I received a text message from MSD. It was about what you'd expect from an immature, emotionally stunted, selfish brat who was raised by an emotionally stunted selfish brat of a mother. In a nutshell, she said she felt it was time we set aside our differences and she would love to come visit us.
My initial reaction was shock. Then a thought of, "Um, not so fast." I didn't know what to say. It took me a while to realize that this is probably the best I could hope for out of this person. She's not capable of apologizing for being a rude, disrespectful, hurtful, nasty little butthole to me for years on end. She's only able to see what she wants and try to eliminate the obstacles between her and what she wants. In her mind, making nice with me means she can come visit.
When I was finally able to respond, I just thanked her for reaching out and told her I was open to trying to rebuild. Since then, I have heard nothing else from her. DH was surprised, since he's been saying for years that the ball was in their court, that if they wanted to repair things they needed to do the work and initiate the contact, but in all that time, they haven't. This was her limp-wristed effort at reaching out. I think she only bothered to try because OSD is coming to visit in August and she wanted to come along. Now that they're all older, OSD and MSD seem to understand that their biomonster is an emotionally unstable lunatic who is far more difficult to deal with than DH and I ever were, and I wonder if maybe she's finally coming around and seeing that we aren't the horrible people the momster always accused us of being. But just one text message? No apology, just "set aside our differences so I can come visit?" Not a peep from YSD, by the way. Not a single peep.
Even though it probably is the best I'm going to get, this effort she's made is not enough. The damage isn't repaired by it. Am I obligated to reach out to her? Am I obligated to try and make this work? It's been so sad for DH and I to see that this is the shape of our family. It's not what we ever wanted, but it's been the best of a bad situation. I'm so conflicted about whether or not I need to put effort into trying once again to be connected to people who obviously don't/didn't want to be connected to me. I love DH dearly and I know he's in pain over this distance between him and his DDs. If I could lessen his pain, I would. I'm just not sure I want to risk paining myself all over again.
Has anyone been here before? Any wisdom?
It hard to give an answer
It hard to give an answer with out knowing the type of trouble she caused.
Basic answer is to have her visit. Be friendly, ( dont kissing her ass, or buying gifts.) not your long lost friend !
Cook. Have an BBQ. Your are doing it for your SO and see how the ball bounces. If she is warm to you the you try to be warm to her, if she not then you are not .
Look at it as the first step.
Typical butthole pre- and
Typical butthole pre- and adolescent disrespect, misbehavior, emotional manipulation stuff. Age-inappropriate tantrums, laziness, slobbiness, refusal to contribute to the chores or pick up after themselves, referring to me as "she" and pointing at me when I was standing two feet away. Refusing to speak to me when spoken to. She's 20 and we've been married for 12 years. I did my best to remain flexible and sympathetic when the girls were younger and things were new, but the last straw was when they were under my roof for an entire week during the summer 4 years ago and refused to speak a word to me. At eight years old, there's some flexibility to be given, but not at 16 years old. Screw that. Rudeness is a deliberate choice at 16 and by then I'd had enough. DH too. We agreed that we wouldn't let anyone treat us that way in our own home, so they would not be welcome back until they could own their mistakes, apologize for them, and do better. He goes to visit as often as work allows, but I have had minimal contact since that week of stonewalling four years ago.
It's actually tough to list out and explain all the crappy stunts they pulled. It feels like a lifetime ago. I guess that's proof that disengagement works! I have so much distance from it and have been so happy with the peace and calmness disengaging brought to my life.
As this would be a visit involving travel, I don't think a BBQ or a get-together at our place is practical. I also think the fact that I shuddered with distaste when I considered your suggestion is good evidence as to where I'm at mentally with all of this. I hadn't truly considered having her over until I read what you wrote, and now that I have - hell no. I'm not ready for that.
I feel your pain. I am in the
I feel your pain. I am in the middle of the teeanage years with a PAS'd child right now myself. I think you did reach out and try to be the adult when you responded to her text. The ball is officially back in her court as far as I am concerned. Those who go through what you're going through don't need evidence. We automatcially understand.
I truly hope my situation doesn't end up as yours is when she is old enough but I somehow doubt it.
Interesting comment about
Interesting comment about they come in pairs/groups. That's my experience. My SS'S never come to my house without their Devil Wives. EVER. I see the hidden messages. I guess they feel the need to keep their territory marked like animals. But the SS's just don't realize how bad/weak it makes them look. I too get the cold shoulder of the skids. Will come to my house to use garage and never act like adults to come in to say hi- luckily I no longer care. Tried to tell my husband its disrespectful and he says I hate his kids.
Oh yeah, the old "You hate my
Oh yeah, the old "You hate my kids" B.S. This is so common, and it a pathetic attempt to make you the 'heavy' so DH does not have to do anything about the problem. One of the most liberating moments in my life was when I said, "SD doesn't like me and I don't like her" so they both could hear it. It meant no more pretending. I was free to be me.
Also, after SD's meltdown, when she and her husband screamed at me, making all sorts of vague accusations, DH said I made them 'uncomfortable' in my house. It was the only thing they could come up with. Then I asked DH for specifics on how I made them uncomfortable. He got that 'deer in the headlights' look on his face and could not come up with anything. I replied, "They make ME uncomfortable in my house, and I have witnesses." Never heard that one again - or "You hate my kid."
She wants to come to your
She wants to come to your house, but that still does not mean she wants you around, kind lady.... She is not sorry (or she would have written it), and only sees "differences," not problems to find solutions or a need to change any of HER behavior. She is not saying a lot on purpose, because she has no intention of changing and only wants another shot at wedging in your marriage. She cannot get to you by staying away, clearly; she is not happy that way. She can always see daddy another way, it does not have to be with you. I do not consider that a reach out, that was a pathetic attempt to start pushing you around again.
I have read a lot about this dynamic and the liklihood of adults SD's changing is about 0%, once they determine you are the family outsider. If you try it again, the cycle of misery only repeats itself, if this is the case in your situation. I believe the literature....and research in the area.
It is hard to accept that a reasonable person cannot be accepted as family, but most of the time that is exactly what happens to SM's, regardless of the circumstances of meeting and marrying their father. If they want no woman with daddy sharing his time, attention and resources,they will never want you.
All the best if you try this out, I am not certain you will be pleased with the outcome. Wish I could be more hopeful.....
It's depressing, but I think
It's depressing, but I think you're right. Maybe in a few more years there will be some more maturity, some additional insight, but I'm not optimistic.
I also can't help but suspect this text message came as a result of MSD witnessing the rather substantial graduation gift we gave to OSD. (Yes, "we" gave her a good sum of OUR money. Wholehearted support and praise for that girl who worked her ass off to get through school on her own ticket and who has never been anything but sweet and genuine to me and is very close and connected with DH.) I think maybe MSD saw what she thought she was depriving herself of by not playing nice and that helped her to compose the text message. DH is entitled to give his DDs whatever he wants, but my contribution extends only to those who are decent to me. Needless to say, there will be no more graduation gifts given by us.
I don't think I'm going to exert any additional effort beyond my simple response. DH's support is there and he understands 100% where I'm at and why. Doesn't make it suck any less though.
" I do not consider that a
" I do not consider that a reach out, that was a pathetic attempt to start pushing you around again."
☆ THIS. She probably assumes her random text effort was an ANNOUNCEMENT to you that she's coming to visit, that she's over you being unaffected by her in absentia, and that she wants to fire up a new round of the same old, same old she's always delivered. No evidence of any change, so to think it might be different this time is insanity ("expecting different results from the same action"). Change would be evident in tone and content. If she comes to town, my recommendation is to meet her at a cafe before ever letting her come to the house - meet her and vibe it out. Does she offer to buy your drink? Does she apologize for her past atrocities, express regret, and display a true desire to go forward in a new & positive direction with you? Why not try it on at a cafe (neutral ground) before potentially giving her the opportunity to once again deliver her disrespect in your home (sacred space, not ground zero for more b.s.)?
Also, can I encourage you to not let yourself assume defeat, or that her text/visit announcement means you should let her trot on into your home and life and accept whatever she brings to the table (again)? You are worth more than that, plus it would actually be a dis-service to the SD to let the bad behavior be once again rewarding.
You're probably right. It
You're probably right. It was always characterized as interference when I attempted to correct unacceptable behavior while they were in my home as children. Even the fun things (trips, crafts, games, the pool) weren't fun for them if I was there. There's no evidence indicating any maturity or growth in perspective on her part, so I'm feeling like there's really no reason to return to the poisoned well.
My role now, as then, is to be supportive to DH as you described. It makes me sad that he has that need, but it's not because of anything he or I did or didn't do. We can't control others' behavior, and the two SDs behave the way they do/did because BM manipulated them. It's sad, but it is what it is. Can't force them to see it from our perspective.
I love the bit about the pre-dreams.
"There's no evidence
"There's no evidence indicating any maturity or growth in perspective on her part, so I'm feeling like there's really no reason to return to the poisoned well." Good thinking. Read this after my previous post, glad you're seeing this too.
Omg.
Omg.
You told her you were open to
You told her you were open to rebuild and have received nothing from her since. Shows how serious she was, I'd let it go.
Excellent point. I did leave
Excellent point. I did leave it out there for her to run with. DH has repeated for years that the ball is in their court, so it's not like she can claim ignorance.
my 2 cents... I've decided
my 2 cents...
I've decided the relationship between SO and his brat has nothing to do with me, I see him hurt since she moved out, cause he dared standing up for me, she's only 17.... but I do not feel guilty at all, She physically attacked me, I blocked her and filed assault charges, she moved out, She refuses to come over to see her father as long as he's involved with me..... he simply tells her this is my partner and I'm not going to choose between you and her..
I do not care if Aergia (my lovely considered SD) apologize, cause she will not mean it, it's not going to be sincere, if she does it will be to please her father and get more money out of him. Hoe ever... I will remain polite towards her, like I would treat any stranger in town asking me for directions to the nearest bridge to jump...
I owe that to my SO - to be polite to his brat, me being polite to her means ignoring her completely not even saying hello.....
Simply be polite to them if they visit, but you DH needs to make it clear, your house your rules, they will have to leave the first signs of disrespect towards you.. and not both, only the one who's disrespectful, they will have to clean after themselves and behave like young ladies or they will not be welcome.
You are a strong woman and you and OSD get along, thus you can be friendly and talk to her, yes talk to the other one as well as long as she's polite and behaves....
but never ever think that you can change the relationship between a divorced parent and a child, you can't and Hon you did not contribute anything towards their relationship, so never feel guilty if they have a shitty relationship.
But never trust the bratty skids, age will not cause them to change, they've been raised to hate you for years, they always will hate you, the only thing you can do is be polite to them in which ever way you consider polite
How is her relationship with
How is her relationship with her father? I've told my DH that until I see a normal, age appropriate relationship between he and OSD (in her 40's), that is also free of manipulation and subsequent punishment, that any attempts at having a relationship with OSD are not worth my time and emotions. If she doesn't have a respectful relationship with her father, she is not going to have a respectful relationship with her father's wife.
I also don't think your own home is the right place to have a first meeting after 4 years of disengagement. I think you need a neutral place to test the waters before you allow her into your sanctuary, and I would not be the first one to suggest it. She will eventually show her true interest levels. These entitled SDs frequently expect to be chased. She graced you by texting you, and you are supposed to be bending over backwards for her now by chasing her and working out the details of your "reconciliation."
As for obligation to her, you have zero obligation to this young woman. The primary relationship is between her and her father. You would not let anyone else into your home unless you were sure you were going to be treated with respect. MSD is no different.
Her relationship with DH is
Her relationship with DH is minimal. They aren't on bad terms at all; there's just very little contact. In fact, the only contact is that which he initiates. As I said, they live several states away. We moved for DH's job when MSD was about 16, but he remains in daily contact with OSD despite the geography. We talk, text, and FaceTime with her quite often (talk and text daily, FaceTime a few times a week), and DH visits every couple of months. MSD and YSD rarely answer the phone and seldom text back.
Until I read what you wrote about the until/unless appropriateness of interaction, I hadn't thought of her disinterest in DH as being a factor in my disengagement. Now that I'm thinking about it though, why on Earth would I even consider putting forth any effort with this young woman when she doesn't even bother to answer DH's calls 90% of the time? If she can't even maintain a connection to HIM, there is no reason to believe she's capable of handling the complexities of a relationship with me, however distant and cordial it may be.
My DH also has a one DD who
My DH also has a one DD who he has a more normal relationship with. She was the more independent one who did not believe the world revolved around her, got an education, has an excellent job and has a life. She did not grow up believing she was a princess. She treats her father with respect. He visits her; I go sometimes; she has been to our house to visit as well.
OSD was raised believing she was a princess, manipulated to get her way, punished when she didn't. Bragged about being able to get whatever she wanted from other people. She has been punishing her father for almost 2 years by not returning his calls or texts 95% of the time. A woman raised to believe the world revolves around her is a Princess Scorned when daddy remarries and she lost even a little bit of influence.
It's good for DH to have a "normal" child. It's also good for us, because we have a barometer against which to measure what an appropriate relationship looks like at this point.
Sacrificial Lamb said it
Sacrificial Lamb said it best: "These entitled SDs frequently expect to be chased. She graced you by texting you, and you are supposed to be bending over backwards for her now by chasing her and working out the details of your "reconciliation.""
100% agree.
Reading that the last straw
Reading that the last straw disrepectful behavior happened when they were in their middle teen years (4 years ago) puts a whole different spin on this for me. Gosh, bio kids can, and often are, total brats at this age. Given that they were influenced by a nut job of a bio mom and it gets worse for them. Not talking to you for a week 5 years ago is ancient history for these girls.
If the oldest is only 23 then these girls are 20-22 years old now. Still very young as the brain does not finish growing up until mid 20's. Think of this from their perspective. They were normal teens and their SM totally walked away from them and their lives and took their dad with her. Did you do that, no, but teen agers are TERRIBLE at any kind of real evaluation of relationships. They never take any personal responsibility at that age. Only with maturity can they hold themselves responsible.
Holding on to this animosity is only hurting you and your husband. You are not truely disengaged if you are "shuddering" at the idea of contact with these young ladies. Do you really expect these girls to suddenly approach you with a heartfelt and sincere apology for behavior they barely remember? It sounds to me like you are nursing these bad feelings despite the time and distance between you and these girls.
New relationships can be developed and you can work toward an apology for their bad behavior in the past but only if you are open to a relationship today (ie you call them back). Start slow, talk about the weather, recent events, and see if they are different from the 16 year olds you remember.
One of best thing about relationships with adult kids for me and DH is that we can now talk about the bad behavior of the teens with them and watch them cringe with embarassment over what they said and what they did. We laugh about all the crappy stuff and roll our eyes. The adult kids laugh too. It is priceless but it would not happen if I did not talk to them.
"New relationships can be
"New relationships can be developed and you can work toward an apology for their bad behavior in the past but only if you are open to a relationship today (ie you call them back)." The OP already called SD back, and is waiting for acknowledgement. If SD was serious about re-establishing a relationship with SM she would be making an attempt to contact her. She hasn't. It appears she lost interest. SM has done enough.
Yes, the brain my be somewhat immature in the early 20's but there is no excuse for rudeness or bullying at any age. I will never be able to laugh off some of the vicious things my SD said and did to me for 20 years, and she didn't grow out of it in her mid-twenties. Instead, the sadistic, mean spirited behavior escalated. If I returned the call after my SD phoned to 'reconcile our differences' I would expect some sort of effort on her part to demonstrate she has an honest desire to do so.
So this means, like me, you
So this means, like me, you can not "--laugh about all the crappy stuff and roll our eyes." I am just appalled that your SDs have been so self-centered and inconsiderate. That's a given. But the recent 'request' (expectation) by MSD for your DH to help her move is just plain over the top. Your SDs must know your DH is taking blood thinners. If he were to bump into anything it could cause life-threatening injuries. It is also pathetic that your DH places his life in jeopardy for any crumb they cast at him, but I'm sure my DH would do that too. I would NEVER be able to 'laugh and roll my eyes' at that.
I cannot imagine ever sitting
I cannot imagine ever sitting down with OSD and reminiscing about "remember when you tried to get me to wear white to your wedding? When you tried to get me to sit in the front row aisle at your wedding and even your own mother was insisting on it? When you had someone ask me at your reception who I was since I was in the front row? When you lowered your voice about 4 octaves, got right in my face in your kitchen and told me that you might look like you knew what you were doing, but you did and you always got your way? Oh and remember when you got frustrated that I wasn't going away, and you told your dad I was emotionally abusing him and he should move to your city? And remember how wimpy your dad was because he didn't want to be put in the middle and just wanted everyone to get along? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Good times!" NFW
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Come on Peacemaker, at least
Come on Peacemaker, at least leave your post up over night so I could read it! Ha
In a nutshell, she said
In a nutshell, she said ...she would love to come visit ...
Don't be fooled.
When you edit out the BS, the bottom line is that she wants to come and visit your DH (not "us") and it's for her own selfish devices, which you will not become aware of until she shows up.
Maybe you live in a part of the country where she has some sort of interest (nice weather, fun things to do, etc.) and your home is nothing more than a free hotel. Maybe she wants to spend a few days softening your DH up with phoney declarations of daughterly love, then hit him up for money. Maybe she has a friend who would she intends to bring with, again - free hotel and meals.
Whatever the reason, don't be fooled. She has no has no interest in apologizing, has no interest in real reconciliation and has no interest in developing a mature, honest relationship with you.
IMO, stay disengaged. I'm in a similar position. My SO and I are retiring to a sunny locale, and SD and her soon-to-be-husband have already declared how they intend to come and visit. They never have time for my SO while he lives an hour away, but driving for a "free" vacation they already stated they can do.
I figure that's between my SO and them. If they do decide to ever come and visit, I have already decided I will take off and go somewhere else for the duration.
"IMO, stay disengaged. I'm in
"IMO, stay disengaged. I'm in a similar position. My SO and I are retiring to a sunny locale, and SD and her soon-to-be-husband have already declared how they intend to come and visit. They never have time for my SO while he lives an hour away, but driving for a "free" vacation they already stated they can do."
My OSD is a sunworshipper and proclaimed she would be here all the time. It's been 2.5 years and she has not been here once. And with her behavior the last 2 years, that is a real blessing.
Yes. After disengaging for
Yes. After disengaging for five years, (two severely pas'd sd's and one ss who wasn't as effected by bitter bio mom as the other two)... all around the age of 40 now...(Bio mom passed away), and i began my "self discovery" journey back to a healthy state of being...with that being said, the five years of silence, including the total exclusion of of 5 grandchildren plus one we weren't even told about his birth until he was 3 months old...
With that being said, the ss contacted dh to tell him he desired to reconcile the relationship between us. Dh explained to his son that the damage he did to me personally was something that was going to have to be worked through. Ss and I were closer thnt the other two siblings. So ss agreed to meet with me alone and discuss what occurred between us. I did not expect the meeting to make it past the forgiveness milestone. I had no intention of reconciling the relationship between ss and myself.
You can forgive someone and move on, and that was my intention. Knowing he was capable of destroying the relationship between his son and myself to use as a instrument to injure me personally, at that level...(especially after he made it a point to ask me to be close to his children like I was with my own grandchildren)...I had discovered, I had the power to choose. And after our discussion, I calmly told him I would rather not cultivate a close relationship with him or his children, just to have us hurt again if something were to happen to his father. It would be better if I took the legacy I planned on leaving and just focused on my own grandchildren...
He was surprised that I was willing to walk away and move forward without him. I wasn't saying it to threaten him, or manipulate him...that is just where I was at with my decision to not reconcile with him.
He then began to explain to me that he did some soul searching and realized his mother had used him and his sisters as a way to manipulate and hurt dh...and he used not only himself, but his children to do the same. He apologized and revealed to me that in the past 5 years, he did the work on his own heart and knew what he did was wrong.
With that being said, I knew there was hope with him to reconcile the relationship between us. We have come to an understanding and have moved our relationship forward...I told him i would never return to what it was before, and forward was the only direction I was willing to move in. So far it has been OK. (His wife was also poisoned by the ex wife and still continues to walk in the same misguided bitterness that bm left behind as her legacy). So my ss has to contend with her antics every time we get together. part of me feels bad for him because he has to pay a price with her whenever we make a connection.
The other two, have not even begun to deal with their baggage. That is why reconciling with them is not an option for me right now. First of all, there was not a relationship in place to begin with with either of them to reconcile. With that being said, I know from experience, if they do not deal with their messed up core beliefs, even if I tried to have some type of relationship with them, it would not work out in the end, because their pas'd condition would contaminate any kind of new effort to start over. Starting over would just mean, in time, m ore of the same because it is all they know. They have not learned their condition, and are not accountable for themselves to this day. In order to deal with your issues, you have to realize you have issues to deal with. and they do not.
I do not feel obligated to reconcile with them at this point. It took a lot for me to be able to heal, and learn to be kind to myself. I almost completely lost my true identity because of these people and their issues. I had to learn healthy boundaries, and I had to learn how to fight to sustain those boundaries to protect myself from them trespassing into my personal being and blazing a trail of division and damage that had no end.
Now, they do not get to speak into my being less than who God says that I am...They don't get to speak into my being at all. I do not owe them that...They had almost 30 years to get it right...and now it is over. I can't afford to waste any more precious time on their unresolved baggage. I can't afford to sit and hope they might wake up one day...I have to get about my destiny now. i do not want to waste another minute of this life I have been blessed with, being distracted with their nonsense.
The beauty of this lesson learned the hard way, is that one day I woke up and discovered "I get to choose".
...as do you. You are not "obligated" to put yourself out there to be abused and mis treated again. I did choose to forgive all of them for my freedom's sake,,,but, that does not mean you have to reconcile a relationship with them. You need to analyze what YOU want to do...based on who you are, who they are, and what you both contribute to a relationship...
I now have peace in my life, and I am moving forward with my own dreams and aspirations that have absolutely nothing to do with them. My life is separate from theirs, and i wish them well, but now I can fly....the adversity is behind me now, and the internal ball and chain that kept me grounded has been cut off...There is so much more to me than the stepmother role..The rest of me has been trying to get on with my life for years now...and now I can get on with my true purpose...
All I know is, at the end of this gig called life, One question will beg to be answered. That is, "What did you do with the life you were given...and what a shame to have allowed someone else ( no matter who), to have been able to distract you from reaching your fullest potential...Peace.
Thank you so much, Peacemaker
Thank you so much, Peacemaker for the validation. Your words remind me in my heart and soul that I know disengaging was the right thing to do for emotional survival and personal growth.
It is time to re-claim our
It is time to re-claim our Identity...and Stop Apologizing for who we are...
Disengaging afforded me the space I needed to do exactly that...Peace.
I agree. Only if the apology
I agree. Only if the apology comes in some from as this, "He then began to explain to me that he did some soul searching and realized his mother had used him and his sisters as a way to manipulate and hurt dh. . . He apologized and revealed to me that in the past 5 years, he did the work on his own heart and knew what he did was wrong," should you even think about letting bygones be bygones.
You made another interesting point, too in reference to two of your other adult SKs: "There was not a relationship in place to begin with with either of them to reconcile." This can be very true! And, I think this is a hard concept for other people to get or realize with SM and SKs, even with other SMs who do not have this going on. It is very possible for a SM to have SKs come over for years and years, and yet, there is really no relationship there per se. The SKs come over, SM cooks and cleans, and even puts bandaids on boo-boos, but DH/dad may not enforce enough that SM is his wife or SO when the SKs are around, or the SKs may have been told by BM that they don't need to pay any attention to SM--she is just something on the side, or worse--she is a ho to be ignored, and so on.
So, here is SM trying to do her best for the SKs and manage the situation, and meanwhile, because no one is really defining SM's role or not defining it properly, SKs start thinking of SM as more of a servant who waits on them when they are there. BM enforces this, and sadly, sometimes even DH may reinforce this role. SO, even after years, just like a servant who for years may not really have a relationship with the people they are serving, SM and SKs may have no relationship either, because SM's role was never clearly stated or defined, or enforced. They may have never even heard of her being referred to as dad's wife.
SO, when someone makes the comment, "The kids are just being typical teenagers," or something like that. So, once they are adults, you should forgive them, move on, and yuck it up over it, this really doesn't even come close to reality. For some SMs, yes, but certainly not for all.
Some SKs become adults, and they still think of SM as their servant. As adults, they might see SM as loosely or slightly being connected to their father. But, the don't see SM as even remotely part of the family, even tho. they may see other relative's spouses that are connected by marriage only as family. SKs have no recognition or graciousness for all she has given to them over the years, because in their minds, SM was just something on the side, more or less. Servants give; they don't get.
SM has given to these kids for years and years, expecting that in their adult years they are going to have that light-bulb moment that we all just assume will be coming, and as one SM above referred to: "Oh, now I get it! You and dad are married, a couple! Silly me. I can't believe what a brat I was !!" And, then, all will be good and everything will be healed. BUT, for many SMs this moment never comes, and that is what many people don't understand about being a SM (and yes, even some other SMs don't get it).
No one would ever expect an adult to go around treating a relative's spouse as a servant, literally. How odd, how weird? But, this is what can wind up happening with many a SM. The adult SKs never get it, and therefore their children (SGKs) never get it. Now, dad can tell them until he is blue in the face that SM is his wife, his SO, the love of his life, and yet some adult SKs will forever go around thinking more or less SM is a servant and not a relative, and they owe her nothing no matter what she has done for them. AND, then, what else can you do when someone treats and thinks of your wife as a servant, or you as a servant. You disengage is some form or fashion. Because, as Peacemaker said, "What a shame to have allowed someone else ( no matter who), to have been able to distract you from reaching your potential." AND, you are not a servant.
...trust me, even with
...trust me, even with stepson's confession to admitting that he realizes what he had done was wrong...DOES NOT put me in the position that my trust is automatically on full throttle with him. He knew what he was doing when he did it, and STILL CHOSE to do it. Which is where the defining moment came when he turned the corner into betrayal. His heart condition has allowed him to do it anyway. I only agree to reconcile with him (to a limited degree), because He owned his actions.
I am still very aware of what he is capable of. Our relationship, on a scale of 1 to 10 is maybe at a 3 right now. I would define it close to that of a professional intimacy that I have with sales people. I have plenty of healthy boundaries in place. We both share the desire to leave a healthy legacy to our children...on that level we connect. Other than that, I share nothing with him about my personal life or business ventures moving forward. We see each other at special events and birthday parties...but that is it.
He spends most of his time bonding with his father over his latest achievements in life. He is very talented at being able to transition into the personality he is engaging with. I don't know if i will ever reach the real him again. I don't now if he is in touch with himself anymore. So, the engagement that we do share is very limited at best.
There is not a lot of trust there. I didn't want you thinking it was a "Let bygones be bygones and all caution is thrown to the wind kind of situation...Although the relational aggression has stopped...There is still a great deal of caution...Peace.
I do agree with you
I do agree with you completely. Just think that his confession is a minimum of what could be looked at as a start to a very long road. Agree that bygones be bygones is a ways away, if it even gets to that. Just tried to make a long spiel too short.
(No subject)
I agree...Motive is
I agree...Motive is Everything.
This was a good laugh for an
This was a good laugh for an early Sunday morning: "Not treating me as a zit on their family's collective ass." We all know how you feel, for sure.
Good analogy too.
You described me to a tee -
You described me to a tee - for decades before disengagement. I WAS the servant. Cleaning, cooking, making special arrangements, taking care of gifts, etc., etc, while still being invisible or treated like dog doo most of the time. And, as you pointed out, my DH was one of those who expected it.
The difference between what I was and a servant - was that I funded a good portion of SD's expenses. I supported DH while she was going to college. I paid for her health insurance. I paid half of all of the food and restaurant bills she ate when she stayed with us, plus hotels and associated expenses when she traveled with us. I paid for 1/2 of all gifts that were not reciprocated. A lot of this was while she was making more than DH or I. I do not recall one 'thank you' directly said to me for anything - from either SD or DH. For the majority of the time SD was an adult in her 30's.
I never envision SD uttering the words, "Oh, now I get it! You and dad are married, a couple! Silly me. I can't believe what a brat I was !!", or DH humbling himself enough to say, "Thanks for the help when I really needed it." But then, I don't focus on that because now I am working on reaching my full potential.
"Starting over would just
"Starting over would just mean, in time, m ore of the same because it is all they know. They have not learned their condition, and are not accountable for themselves to this day. In order to deal with your issues, you have to realize you have issues to deal with. and they do not."
This is likely where I will remain with OSD for the rest of my days. I know that DH would love to have the important parts of his life together again. When he brings it up, I ask him 1. in what ways has OSD changed?, 2. Does she understand her previous behavior and show remorse for it? , 3. Does she care about someone else's perspective other than her own?, 4. Has she given assurances she will no longer behave in that manner in the future?
And those are questions he can't answer positively, because she has had no introspection in her life, she is a constant victim, and never been accountable for anything. Everything that happens to her was caused by someone else. That's how she has always been and likely will be.
ss32 has the same victim
ss32 has the same victim mentality, nothing is ever his fault or responsibility. I've sat and listened to him talk about how it's the boss or company's fault that he kept quitting or getting fired from his jobs. His gf's were are horrible and that's why he's not married. The reason he's not famous in a certain sport is DH's fault!!! ss32 seriously (not joking) blamed his father that he is not the next Valentio Rossi international motorcycle racer. He was yelling at DH that DH should have tried harder w/him when he was younger. DH did tell ss that he always supported him in his interests and if ss remembers correctly all he did during high school was party and sneak girls in, he had no interest in sports whatsoever then. Oh and then there's me, I'm the sole reason that he and his father don't have a closer relationship because I STOLE him from ss.
What a life, to live w/no accountabilty.
It boggles my mind what these
It boggles my mind what these skids expect. When my DH was married with young children, his own parents rarely left their home to visit their son, his then wife and their grandkids. Maybe every couple of years they visited.
But OSD thinks her father is the moon to her planet - a huge part of his life is supposed to revolve around her. She is middle aged, has a husband and children. Where do people get this sense of entitlement? She saw herself how frequently her grandparents visited and were involved. They had their own lives. Why does she hold her father to a higher standard?