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Lying and no punishment?

WonderMom3's picture

At what age should a child be disciplined for lying? I don't mean any lie or just one here and there either. Lies like...daddy hit me, step mom calls me names, won't let me take a shower, makes me sleep on floor, etc. My SS9, no longer wants to come for weekend visitation. That's a whole other issue in itself. He keeps making up reasons why and they're all lies. We've had DFS at our home investigating which turned up nothing and they have flat out told us they can tell it is just a pissed off ex trying to get us in trouble. So, I feel as if when/if he comes for his visitation he should be punished for all of his lies. My husband is scared if he does then he will never come back. Okay...I get that, but what if he does nothing about his lies? Doesn't that just teach him he can do/say what he wants and there will be no consequences? And how will our children feel about it? How can we punish our children for things, but allow SS to just get away with it? It is pretty sad and aggravating when a 9 year old child has all the control!! Opinions? Advice?

WonderMom3's picture

Exactly! That is my issue with the whole situation. Yes, he did tell DFS he's abused at our home. And, no he is not in any way shape or form mistreated by us. I do not want him around our 2 children(8 & 5 years old). My kids aren't perfect by no means, but they know better than to lie especially about that. SS has also said that our children hurt him all the time. We have been told not to be alone with SS at all. How do I get husband to understand that though? I have told him this is it and the last time(been a 5 year battle). I cannot handle the lies. I'm not a perfect mother, but I love all of my children including my SS, but sometimes he makes it hard as hell. I feel like we're fighting a losing battle.

WonderMom3's picture

Good idea, but problem is he refuses to come for visitation anymore. BM won't force him in her car to meet us and when we drove to her house to pick him up she wouldn't let my husband inside and just kept saying well if he comes outside then I guess you can put him in your car and take him if you can catch him, but i'm not forcing him to come outside. BM helps him come up with these lies. She is a child psychologist so that doesn't help matters any.

notsobad's picture

Did DFS file a report saying it was the ex PASing the child?
Has anyone sat this kid down and asked why he's lying?

I think the truth is what this kid needs. He 9, that's more than old enough to know right from wrong, truth from lies. He needs to be told what the consequence could be.

WonderMom3's picture

Yes, they said there was no evidence proving any of his accusations. They ordered BM to take him to counseling because obviously there is something going on. She took him to 3, maybe 4 appointments and just stopped. DFS said that's all they require. My husband calls him out on his lies every single time, but BM believes everything he says and helps him with them to be honest. Some of the stuff he says I know comes from her because a 9 year old wouldn't know. Like the time he called me a f**king c**t when he was 4...that came from his mom. Anyways, husband has told him time and time again we know you're lying and told him what happens when you lie, but BM does nothing and feeds into it. I just want it to be over...

WonderMom3's picture

Yea, that won't happen. He gets what he wants at BM's house. 9 years old and she still bathes him, still cleans his room, still picks up his dinner mess, etc. The child gets to sit and play video games all day long if that's what he wants.

WonderMom3's picture

We have all of this documented and gone to court a few different times and nothing has changed. Judge says same thing so at this point it's a waste of our money. No judge so far will give her a psych eval because she has a good job and no reason to at this point blah blah blah. A little background on BM -- been married 3 times. My husband was first...her second husband is a meth addict and currently in jail(she has a child with him as well) third husband she met while he was in prison and actually married him in prison. Judge knows all of this and my husband requested that she not take SS to see her husband in jail, he had never met him outside of jail so it's not like he's attached to him, but the judge said it isn't hurting him to go there to see his now step father. We will never be able to beat her in court unless she blows her house up from meth lab or something crazy! I have absolutely no faith in the court system after that.

notarelative's picture

This is part and parcel of your last post.
https://www.steptalk.org/node/233927

The lying issue, the pick up issue, the DFS issue.. are all one issue. Please re-read the advice you got there. The advice you got there is still good.

If your H files the files the family access motion (that the police recommended he do) he may be able to force the BM into allowing counseling. If you search online for the form you will see that there is a place on it to ask for the court to require counseling. BM is not the only one who can take the child to counseling. DH can ask the court to require that he be allowed to pick up and take the child to counseling.

If the police suggested a family access motion, that would seem to indicate that a court order produced by this motion would be enforced by them.

WonderMom3's picture

Cops here only tell you what to do, but when it comes to this they will not enforce it. They will not force the child into either car. Our lawyer has filed a few family access motions in last few years and still nothing has changed. Judge says gotta go see your dad tells BM he needs to go, but still BM and my husband allow the child to make the decision

Rags's picture

9yos do not get to choose if they comply with visitation or choose to not come back. They do what they are told when they are told or they suffer the consequences. BM's manipulations need to be met with a big legal stick and DH should nail her ass to the wall with a contempt motion any time she fails to deliver the Skid on schedule. The SKid may try to avoid visitation but it is the CP who should get smacked when the kid does not arrive on time for visitation.

I have zero tolerance for this kind of crap and am a proponant of total destruction of the offender legally, socially, financially, and publically. Own her idiot ass.... I would.

And bring hell fire and brimstone down on that 9yo so he will never make the mistake of participating in this manipulative BM PAS crap ever again.

IMHO of course.

Good luck.

WonderMom3's picture

Thank you for your opinion and advice. I wish he would. I think he's scared to do anything else because we've already spent so much money on our lawyer and gotten no where. She screwed him in their divorce big time. His parenting plan doesn't even state anything about holidays, just 1st and 3rd weekend. Makes no sense to me how a 9 year old can have so much control over his BM and father. I'm fed up with it. My son is picking up on a lot of this and has stated he doesn't want SS to come visit anymore.

SMforever's picture

"His biggest worry is that he will be ridiculed as a bad father" .....by who?

If he is afraid BM will say this, then that's b.s. since she is creating the situation.
If he is afraid SS will say this, then he can remind the kid of his lying behaviour and CPS visits he caused.

Anyone else? Tell em to mind their own business.

My DH suffered this. BM poisoned the kids for years. From the age of 6, SD never spent one single night at DH house. She always refused to stay over. And guess what, now she's 21 and away from BM, she has made friends with her Dad and they hang out regularly. These nutbar BM's always get found out.

WonderMom3's picture

He doesn't care what BM says, I think it's more his family and son that he's worried about. My husband didn't see is dad from about 8-16 years old because his father couldn't deal with the mother anymore. Once he got a car he was able to go see his dad whenever he wanted. He now speaks to his father and not his mother(thank the Lord). I keep trying to tell him, that no matter what in the end SS will know the truth and will know that it was his BM that caused this not my husband. I know he is in pain, but it is driving me absolutely insane going through this every other weekend. That's awesome that your SD and DH get along now. I sure hope that's what happens down the road in this situation as well.

WonderMom3's picture

Wow! Sounds like where we are heading. I do have hidden cameras in my living room, both of my bio kids' rooms and my kitchen. We dealt with the drugs accusations last year. DFS showed up and told us I told them to feel free to search my house right then and there and offered to take drug test on the spot. Nothing to hide, but yes it was hell. Even though my neighbors all know who we are and what the situation is with SS, it is embarrassing to have DFS show up with cops every month almost. I'm glad things got better for you guys. I'm just scared it's going to get worse...and i'm not sure how much worse I can handle. It isn't fair to any of us involved especially our two children.

No Name's picture

First of all I wouldn't even want the kid to come to my home. He is already a master manipulator. So I would simply say if you don't want to come over this weekend that's fine as we wouldn't want you to do anything that you don't want to do. So we will give you a call in a couple of weeks. Its a shame that you are going to miss out on family bowling night and the movies this weekend. Age nine they are all about having a fun time and getting their own way. If the kid is on social media post pictures of the things that you do and the fun that he is missing. Sometimes you just have to get down to their level. Like I said don't call other that the call the night before he is to come to your house. The next time do the same thing. Do not let a 9 year old control your household but don't make it obvious that you are on to his game. Have fun with your kids. Life goes on with or without him. If that doesn't work and your DH is just dying to see him call for an afternoon fun outing but tell him that it just doesn't suit for him to come over for the weekend so after your outing you will be taking him home. Make him wonder what your up to and why you wouldn't be begging for him to come to your house. It's worth a try.

WonderMom3's picture

I don't want him at my house, but I feel horrible for my DH. But, last night we were "supposed" to call and see if he wanted to come over, but BM text and said you can call now, but it's pointless so my DH never called or text her back. This morning he and 2 texts from her and I had 4. She was wanting to know why he didn't call and if he wasn't going to put forth the effort to see his son then he should at least have the nerve to let her know. After 3 months of trying and getting nothing but lies and bs what's the point? Thank you for the advice. I'm not sure if it'll work. We went to Disneyland last year and asked him if he wanted to go, he refused. No matter how much fun he would have he will not be away from his BM. Sad, because he missed out on a lot of fun. What kid doesn't want to go to Disneyland?! We got him a few things while we were there and he just kept saying that's stupid why would you get me that. After that I haven't spent a dime on the little shit!

Acratopotes's picture

at what age should a child be punished when caught with a fable - oh dear, I punished mine on his first one and every other one after wards... now age 20 he knows, I will be pissed if he tells me the truth but at least he will not be punished and I can help him.

I would not put everything on SS's shoulders, I think BM is instigating this in a big way... small things like, oh look at the bruise on your arm, did Daddy hit you again, it's only coming out now after years and years of brain washing....

I agree Dh should see SS out side the home in a public place, and this kid need therapy

WonderMom3's picture

To a point, yes, I believe it is BM, but at the same time. He knows he's lying and some of it is him. He purposely torments my bs and bd. Constantly mean to them and says very hurtful things. I agree he needs counseling, but court has yet to order it yet and bm says he has been and doesn't need it that we are just crazy. I see him being the kid you hear about blowing up a school. I hate saying that, but that's the personality he has. No regard for anything or anyone. Scary.

Rags's picture

Lying was a near death penalty offense in my parents home and my wife and I considered the same thing in our home with SS.