Outsider at Thanksgiving

Forums:

Hi all - I'd like to ask for your perspective. Sometimes, being in a situation for a long time, it can help to hear others' thoughts.

I've been married for the past 10 years to a woman who has an adult daughter, almost 40 years old, from a prior marriage. My wife and her daughter have always been close, especially in terms of what my wife feels for her daughter. I've supported their relationship - e.g. visits, helping my wife arrange to go on vacations with her daughter (even when I was not asked or included), etc., because I know it's important to my wife.

On the other hand, my stepdaughter has always disliked me. There has been a consistent undertone from her of rudeness, hostility, or simply ignoring attempts to reach out and establish a closer relationship. I know from reading that it's not unusual for stepchildren to harbor resentment or anger toward the new spouse of a parent, whether from subconscious resentment of their parents' divorce, or some other reason, so I've tried to take my stepdaughter's attitude in stride. Although I've never been able to understand the source of the hostility, I've just tried to be as polite and unthreatening to my wife's daughter as possible. My wife has never acknowledged my efforts to reach out to her daughter, and instead has complained that the relationship is not closer. She has never had the empathy to show any understanding of how discouraging it is for a husband to be actively disliked by her daughter for many years. This in itself has been saddening, but I've tried to make the best of the situation.

Recently, my wife mentioned that she might go to visit her daughter for Thanksgiving. Her daughter lives hundreds of miles away, so this would mean my wife taking a multi-day trip, by herself, staying with her daughter. It would also mean that she would be leaving her husband (myself) by himself for Thanksgiving. I was saddened and surprised at the lack of empathy. When my wife brought up the possibility, she didn't mention it with any expression of understanding that it meant leaving a spouse alone at the holidays, nor of how that would feel to the spouse left alone.

It's not a matter of my wife having limited vacation time. She doesn't work, she goes on week-long trips with her daughter, and I've helped arrange for them to have other long weekends together throughout the year.

I understand the natural closeness of parents and children, but it's very hurtful to feel that one is not only a second priority, but not even a priority at all - that one's own emotions don't even enter into a wife's thought process. My way of thinking has always been that, although relationships with children are very important, a marriage is the primary relationship.

This is not the first occurrence of events like this which demonstrate a lack of caring and empathy. I've tried to have calm, gentle conversations with my wife about this, with the language people are advised to use ("I feel X when you do Y..." and so on), but my wife's response is usually either anger, defensiveness, or simply indifference, not caring about the emotional impact.

I don't want to be selfish, but I don't think I have been - in fact, the contrary, and even my wife acknowledges how much I do for her. However, the lack of empathy, of fundamentally caring about one's spouse's emotions, of making one's spouse a bottom line priority, really makes one question the entire foundation.

I'd value any thoughts and perspective any of you have.

Sounds like you are just a

Sounds like you are just a wallet to your wife.

Youch. SD is an adult?! I

Youch. SD is an adult?!

I just don't understand this "closeness" that makes a spouse treat their grown adult child as more important than their partner? Even older skids that live with you still.. At some point wants vs needs change as children grow. I drank that kool aid when I was first in this.. Kids come first.. Maybe if they are 4. Children's wants are below adults choices.

What happened to leaving the nest and making a life for oneself? Especially now with constant communication.. It isn't like your wife goes a month hearing from her daughter.. Then it's a letter.. And they already vacation together through out the year. And she has contempt for you as well?

I honestly think this constant communication is the crux of some of these issues. Kids never have to grow up if mommy is always there.

I would be upset. Damn straight. You are her husband. Have the "kid" come visit you.. Buy the train ticket. When you marry you place your spouse above all others. If she doesn't want to, because she is a brat, too bad.

I think my answer would

I think my answer would depend on whether or not skid is welcome to come to your home for TG, would you despise going to skids home for TG?

And whether this is this an every year occurrence or is it just this one time?

I often get ditched by my DH for my SD, and I get upset, but try to be understanding, he wants to "be there" for her, and I don't want to have anything to do with her, so I really don't mind so long as I don't have to go with them, and I sweeten the deal by doing something nice for myself. In your shoes I would visit my own family, or maybe enjoy the alone time, have TG ordered out to my home, and sit back and relax, and really especially enjoy the fact that I didn't have to spend the day with SD, and really it's not just SD, it's DH too, and the way he allows her to speak to me and treat me. So I would be glad to ship DH out to see SD on TG, than actually have to spend TG with the two of them.

Though, I could see if this was an every holiday occurrence I might just find my way out of the marriage.

GoingWicked, you raise some

GoingWicked, you raise some good questions.

"I think my answer would depend on whether or not skid is welcome to come to your home for TG, would you despise going to skids home for TG?"

Yes, the stepdaughter is welcome to come to our house for Thanksgiving. In fact, I've even invited my wife's daughter to come on vacations with us sometimes, but she did not even respond to those emails at all.

As far as going to the stepdaughter's home for Thanksgiving, not really an option because she lives in a very small apartment, that would be a tight fit even for my wife to visit her daughter. On the other hand, though, sometimes I think that in an ideal situation, the wife and stepdaughter would both make it clear that the husband is welcome, and the wife and husband could stay at some nearby hotel. I've never received any invitation like that.

"And whether this is this an every year occurrence or is it just this one time?"

This Thanksgiving situation, in particular, is just this year, although in past years, my wife's daughter stayed with her biological father who lives near my wife and me. My stepdaughter has always been pretty clear about her dislike for me, so I think she would avoid staying with my wife and me.

You do make good points about trying to make the best of the situation. I try to do that. On the other hand, to be left by oneself at Thansgiving, when all of one's family are dead or far away, is a discouraging feeling if you know that situation came about because your own wife didn't have the empathy to consider what the feeling would be like for her husband.

"Though, I could see if this was an every holiday occurrence I might just find my way out of the marriage."

It's difficult to know where the obligation to be caring and tolerant and patient ends, and where the need for self-preservation (of one's own wellbeing and dignity) has to begin. I think of marriage as a significant commitment and have been trying to make it work. But it does seem that there has to be a mutual willingness to hear what each other is really saying, and for both sides to try to empathize, not just be indifferent or try to disprove the other side.

Did tell her how it felt to

Did tell her how it felt to be left alone at Thanksgiving. Did let her know, in a calm, gentle way, that it would feel sad to be left alone at a holiday like that. I try to communicate a lot.

Although she wasn't as heartless as to say "tough, I don't care," it's also true that she didn't show any real understanding or empathy for my emotions. She tends to try to prove me wrong, or to justify and defend her own actions. I often even have to tell her: it isn't an attack, there's no need to prove me wrong or defend yourself, I'm just trying to let you know how I feel, and I would like some kind of understanding and caring about my emotions, not just yours. That message doesn't seem to get through very often.

I think you sound like a

I think you sound like a wonderful husband, acknowledging your wife's needs to spend time with her daughter although I think if your stepdaughter blatantly excludes you from coming for Thanksgiving, then I would think your wife would stand up for you and say, if he's not invited, I won't come. My dh crossed the line once with one of my 4 daughters and she said he would not be invited to her wedding the next year, I told her, if he wasn't invited, then I wouldn't be there either. We both were there.

I have 4 daughters who also are not big fans of my dh (they have their reasons) nor he of them (he also has his reasons), but he knows that I will go visit them and it is his choice whether to go or not. My daughters actually never understand WHY he doesn't travel with me. In our case, it is money driven. Dh is very frugal and it does cost money (airfare, hotel, etc...)to visit my daughters. They are not his children and were adults when we met plus they're girls, so he really has no desire to spend time with them. And, as he even said, he knows my daughters like their "alone" time with their mother...which is true. They do. I see dh daily and every weekend. I'm lucky to see my daughters once a year...if that.

Dh has 3 grown sons he feels a "sense of obligation" for to stay home at the holidays, but I don't. (His ex lives in another state, so our house is their only "parental" home unfortunately and dh was a single father.) I flew to AZ two years ago and spent Thanksgiving with my extended family there since my daughters weren't coming home and spending yet another holiday with HIS kids just depressed me. (I'm not a fan of HIS sons either.) Dh chose again not to go due to money plus he was unemployed at the time. Dh and I have discussed this...that, in the future, if any of my kids were to invite me for a holiday (although they would never exclude dh), we may part ways at that holiday if he feels he just can't leave his sons. (They all have mental issues, so due to their own mistakes HAVE nowhere else to go). This year, I decided to go to my sister's and dh was all worried about his sons. I told him they were "big boys" and could figure it out and I was going - with or without him. I feel NO sense of obligation to stay home for adult children who, by their own mistakes, have put this burden on my dh which just makes me resent them more than I already do.

Anyway, I do think your wife is being a bit selfish and, it does sound like she is putting her daughter above you. Were you invited to go? Does your wife have grandchildren there?

Thank you for this

Thank you for this perspective. It does help to hear about your situation, and some of the other replies in this post too. Provides some kind of confidence that I'm not completely misguided in feeling the way I do.

No, I wasn't invited to go. Never have been invited on their outings. When I invite her daughter to come with us on trips, I receive no response.

And there are no grandchildren. Just the mother-daughter bond. It's natural for that to be close, but sometimes it seems that she is almost obsessive about her daughter, given that her daughter is almost 40 years old. Not sure it's really healthy for anyone.

i am glad you see things

i am glad you see things clearly. your wife is clearly enmeshed with her daughter. this is not healthy and is, in fact, doing a disservice to the daughter, who should have friends her own age. i know this because my sd is this way with my dh. sd calls her own father her bff. seriously?

i totally understand how you feel. if you have never felt included as the spouse of your wife, the blame rests with your wife.

as your spouse, your wife needs to give you priority in her life. sadly with second marriages, this is not the case and children become the "spouses" of their parents. you end up playing second fiddle.

your sd disliking you is not due to anything you do or say. its clear your sd sees you as a rival for the time and affections of her mother. its the "default" of being the second spouse of a parent, and its unhealthy. your wife does not have a clue that you cannot be "closer" to her daughter because her own daughter is too enmeshed with her.

depend on yourself to make yourself happy. your wife has made it clear you don't come first. i wish you well.

It may be too late for this

It may be too late for this year but I would already begin planning Thanksgiving for you and your wife next year. Maybe you would like to go away for the holiday, have dinner out or invite people to your home.
How about if you and your wife got a hotel near your SD but the three of you go our to eat at a nice restaurant?
We were invited to SD's, my brother's house and my Aunts for Thanksgiving but my DH wants to stay home so that is what we are doing however I would really like to go to my brother's and spend the day with my family.

It could be a good idea,

It could be a good idea, getting a hotel near the stepdaughter next year. Just would feel a little odd basically inviting myself along, when the two of them pretty clearly want alone time together.

It is my guess that the two

It is my guess that the two of you are near, or around, 60 years old and have been married a number of years?? Do you do quite a bit individually?? Hard to say without speaking to your wife why she is thinking this way but what does come to mind is that maybe spending Thanksgiving at home feels like being alone? Perhaps she could not see the two of you celebrating the holiday together and truly enjoying it without other family members?

Maybe it is time to create holiday cheer that both of you can enjoy together like planning a dinner out or a weekend away!

We've been married about 10

We've been married about 10 years. I'm younger. Although we do some things individually, we normally haven't been the kind of spouses who are extremely separate - we don't take separate vacations, etc. We tend to do leisure time activities together, and I support the interests she have which I don't share in.

I don't think she has a concern about the two of us celebrating the holiday together and it feeling like an "empty nest." I think she's just very preoccupied with her daughter, and it didn't even cross her mind to consider how her husband would feel if she left him alone at Thankgiving. It's really that indifference and lack of caring / empathy that is hurtful. If I mention that it feels that way, though, she just gets irritated and points to the things she does for us as evidence that she does care. I always say that I appreciate those things, but if I'm disregarded in key ways, and any emotions I have are treated as non-valid or non-existent, then it doesn't feel emotionally good. She seems to have trouble understanding that, or caring enough about me to think about what the experience is like on my side, instead of just perceiving it as an attack on her.

Maybe the idea of suggesting and planning for a holiday specifically for the two of us, like you say, is a good one. Maybe it has to be a specific suggestion.

StepAlong, my husband and I

StepAlong, my husband and I have been married 23 years, both married previously, both have children from our first marriage and neither of us has ever spent a holiday without the other. I have visited my children by myself many times but if it is a round a holiday we do an early celebration so that husband and I can spend the actual holiday together. I think this is important. It almost sounds like your wife could be overly attached to her daughter.

This would never fly in my

This would never fly in my marriage. DH wouldn't leave me alone on a holiday (tried it once, and he felt so bad he just left his family's gathering and came home), and I would never leave him home like that, either. We cleave unto each other.

Shame on your wife, OP.

Thank you. Your comment

Thank you. Your comment might just seem like a small comment to you, but I can't tell you how meaningful it is to hear that other people would feel similarly in this situation. It's some validation that I'm not lacking all perspective, and hopefully not being overly selfish. Thank you.

Completely agree. 100%.

Completely agree. 100%. Same here.

unfortuntely...when a person

unfortuntely...when a person comes from a broken family...the eldest sibling unintentionally moves into the vacant seat next to her parent...Depending on how long the eldest daughter sat in that seat, and how heavily your wife grew to depend on her for emotional support, will determine how the act of relinquishing that seat to you fully will take. unfortunately the lines of authority have been blurred in a sense that the parent and the child are "equal" in authority. (they were never intended to be).. They have formed a loyalty bond that creates a barrier between the two of you bonding like spouses should...She dislikes the threat you bring to her position because she is sitting in your rightful position. if the mother does not see the error of her ways, then her daughter will rank higher than you on the priority scale...(that is just one of your problems)...because of this dynamic...the daughter who should have individualized as an adult already...has no incentive to do so. and because her mother is feeding off from her bond with her adult child in this present state...she has no desire to do so either.

Your challenge is with both of them in this unhealthy check-mate...they will prevent each other from trasnstioning into the otherwise normal... different stages of life for each one of them. And you are not the leader of this self made alliance, so, that puts you on the outside of their circle of intimacy at best. When, normally a man and a woman who are married should share that circle together...then, perhaps the children in the next circle...but never within the boundaries of a marriage union..."the "us" Circle"...should be between a husband and his wife alone...that no one else should come in between...yes...not even your children...yes...even if they were conceived before your now marriage took place...they are still the children...and have no business in the adult arena of your relationship...they were never intended to play that role...they were intended to be under the authority of their parents...not equal to...that is the problem with a lot of broken families...these lines get blurred, and then crossed, and soon people do not know what role they should be playing in the family structure.

That is how the children end up morphing to the top of the authority in the family structure...That seat was not intended for her to sit in...it will not serve her to help her reach her highest potential to absolve herself from the intentional design of the original family structure...That is where many children become entitled thinking.becoming the center of the universe...that is where they become confused about their place in this world...The problem is, once they have tasted the authority they get from being allowed to reside in that seat...It is extremely difficult to take it back and re-group your family to the way it was originally intended to function...Especially if you are the one who is delivering that message.

That is why many stepparents have this exhausting battle with their step kids...it is the battle for that seat that was once occupied by the other parent...In a first time marriage that stays in tact...that seat is never negotiable...it remains occupied by both their parents....In a nutshell...unknowingly, your wife has allowed her daughter to become her partner...in some respects...and you, unfortunately are gracefully waiting for her to relinquish that,,,that is rightfully yours...but until her mother gets it...they have formed a bond at a whole different level that have crossed SOME of the lines that should only take place between a husband and his wife...

My osd is over 40 now...I have been married for over 25 years, and she still struggles with clarity of her position in the family...Now, to complicate things..her bm passed away so she has morphed into her mother's vacant seat and thinks that somehow, that raises her position in our family structure to be "equal" with my husband and I. she is, and always will remain under our God-given position in the family structure... until we die...that is how the generations transpire...when we mess with the original design... it becomes confusing...

It may not have helped much in knowing how to respond to your problem...but hopefully it helps you to understand why the problem may exist to begin with...Perhaps some professional counseling could help your wife gain some perspective...peace.

Thank you for this. Your

Thank you for this. Your comment seems very insightful, on a number of scores. I haven't read all these observations elsewhere, but much of it rings true.

For example, the stepdaughter "dislikes the threat you bring to her position" - that does seem to be the case. I never intended to threaten her close relationship with her mother, but she seems to perceive it that way.

And "because of this dynamic...the daughter who should have individualized as an adult already...has no incentive to do so. and because her mother is feeding off from her bond with her adult child in this present state...she has no desire to do so either." That also is recognizable. My wife does seem to feed off her bond with her adult child, in a more obsessive way than seems usual.

"that puts you on the outside of their circle of intimacy at best. When, normally a man and a woman who are married should share that circle together...then, perhaps the children in the next circle" - That is very much the situation. I often have the sense of being "outside the 'real' family."

"The problem is, once they [adult children] have tasted the authority they get from being allowed to reside in that seat [of the spouse]...It is extremely difficult to take it back and re-group your family to the way it was originally intended to function... Especially if you are the one who is delivering that message." - Although I don't have any way of knowing what goes on in my stepdaughter's head, much of your comment seems to match what I can observe of her attitude.

"unknowingly, your wife has allowed her daughter to become her partner...in some respects...and you, unfortunately are gracefully waiting for her to relinquish that,,,that is rightfully yours...but until her mother gets it...they have formed a bond at a whole different level that have crossed SOME of the lines that should only take place between a husband and his wife..." - That is exactly how it feels. I don't begrudge them their close bond, and in fact encourage my wife to spend time with her. But it is hurtful when my wife says nothing when my stepdaughter acts with rudeness, hostility, or simply ignores olive branches. And then when my wife complains to me - the only person making any effort to reach out - that my relationship with her daughter is not closer, but does nothing to encourage her daughter to make effort. Many examples like this.

I can tell from your last paragraph that you wrestle with a somewhat similar problem. And you are right, describing it does not actually solve the problem, but it's very helpful at least to read such an insightful description, and to have some affirmation that I'm not crazy to feel wounded by this history. The counseling idea is not a bad one, although I doubt my wife would agree. I do appreciate your thoughts.

Have you ever try to have a

Have you ever try to have a conversation with your stepdaughter about where her animosity comes from?

Your wife is being unkind to you. I am sorry.

If all else fails's, while she is gone, take a trip somewhere very special that she has always wanted to go to but is not invited. Perhaps then she will truly see what it feels like to be left out of a special event.

Yes, I've tried to have a

Yes, I've tried to have a conversation with my stepdaughter, to hopefully understand why she dislikes me and move past it. For example, sent a long email to her (a page and a half) earlier this year, basically an olive branch, suggesting more communication, that we get to know each other better, we might find that we have some assumptions about each other that aren't quite accurate, and so on... no response.

I've started to think that, in some stepchild situations, logic and good will just don't matter at all, and the dislike of an "interloper" is something primal, more so than even the stepchild realizes. This seems to be the subtext of a lot of the difficulties I read on here that other people have with their stepchildren, too.

My stepdaughter is very bright. I don't think she has much in the way of empathy or real compassion or kindness, but she definitely has some social skills, and knows how to charm people in her profession. So, she certainly could "get along" and have a friendly relationship if she wanted to. Even though she knows her mother would like that, though... she has no interest in doing it.

I suspect there may be some primal aspect of "if this new husband weren't there, my old family would still be intact, so I hate him." Or some aspect of "he is a threat and a competitor for my mom's attention, so I hate him" (as another poster suggested).

The thing is, my stepdaughter is so bright that she would objectively know that either of those two statements is irrational and obviously untrue. She probably would claim loudly that neither one is at all true. But I can't think of anything else to really explain the long history of rudeness and dislike from her. Sure, some people just dislike other people, that's the way the world is - but in cases of "just simple dislike," we all learn to put that aside and have friendly relations with the people we dislike, for some larger purpose - like her own mother's emotional wellbeing. The fact that my stepdaughter isn't willing to do that says that it's more than "just simple dislike," even if she doesn't even admit it to herself. And that seems to be true for other families, too. It means that the problem isn't amenable to any effort to solve it... and means that the support of one's spouse is even more important.

Ok, I'm 40ish. My mom has

Ok, I'm 40ish. My mom has been with SD for a while. I am so glad they both found each other! My mom and SD are happy and what more could I wish for?

That said, I have a DD. My first DH died and I have remarried. I can not imagine DD ever excluding my DH from holidays later. She is 15 now but jump 20 years ahead. .. No, I would not entertain being away from DH for a holiday or her requesting it. That is rude, selfish and most inconsiderate. And my DH is very supportive of her knowing about her dad, he has encouraged us to travel and visit relatives on dad's side.

You sound like a generous, patient DH. I think you are being taken for granted. You need to flat out tell DW that you don't want to be all alone or excluded on a MAJOR holiday. How she responds will tell you much about her character and commitment.

Thank you for this. I

Thank you for this. I actually did flat out tell my wife that I was very hurt that she would even think about just leaving her husband (me) by himself on a major holiday... let alone not inviting him. It was a difficult conversation, because she has divided loyalties. I didn't try to pressure her, tell her what to do, etc., but just conveyed quietly and calmly how hurtful it was.

She did stay home for Thanksgiving, although she missed her daughter, which I can understand. We didn't even argue about whether she would actually go, which at least gives me some assurance that she cares about me... or at least, cares about knowing that she did the "right thing"... which is not quite exactly the same as caring about one's spouse. The reason it was a long and difficult conversation is that, like her daughter, she doesn't always have a lot in the way of empathy, and she tends to take everything as an attack, even when it's just a quiet, calm statement of "I feel hurt when you do ". Eventually, though, she was able to move past the defensiveness, understand the emotions I was trying to convey, and express some positive and sympathetic feeling about it.

I've often thought that, if there were a test which could reliably determine capability (or lack thereof) for empathy, it would be beyond price. There's hardly anything more important than kindness and empathy for good relationships, of any kind - friendship or marriage. Could save so much future pain if people could really understand ahead of time what the capabilities of the other side are.

Step Along. You are not an

Step Along.

You are not an outsider in your marriage. That means you are not an outsider anywhere you and your bride are regardless of who is present. Rather than accommodate your brides intended upcoming trip to the home of her toxic spawn for the holidays I would suggest that it is time to tell your bride that you will be together on the TG holiday and that she will not be going to her daughters. Yes, I said tell her. Your accommodation of her toxic and rude adult spawn has created this monster. Sadly, you bride very likely not only enables it she probably encourages it. After all, it gets her regular fully funded Step Along coordinated trips with her daughter. Why wouldn’t she continue to enable and encourage her toxic spawn’s crap under those circumstances?

If your bride insists on spending the holiday at the home of her toxic spawn I think it is time to tell (Yes, there is that word again) your bride for this holiday that you will be going with her, that you will not tolerate any rudeness, disrespect, or toxic crap from her daughter and that she (your bride) needs to understand that this is the new normal for any couple or your individual interface with her daughter. Any inappropriate crap from her daughter will be confronted immediately, calmly, professionally, and as firmly as necessary to address the infraction. Lather, rinse, repeat. If her toxic spawn escalates, bring the pain, immediately confront and destroy the behavior, and establish the new normal of zero tolerance for SD’s toxic crap.

Your adult SD does not have to like you, she does not have to respect you, but she will damn sure not disrespect you without direct, immediate, and unpleasant consequences. IMHO of course.

Your equity life partner either supports this or she is not only a part of the problem she is the source of the problem.

IMHO of course.

Take care of yourself and enjoy the holiday with your bride no matter where you celebrate. If that means having to bare your SD’s toxic ass publically in her own home in front of guests and family… so be it. Her choice to be toxic, she chooses the consequences. Have fun delivering them.

"Your equity life partner

"Your equity life partner either supports this or she is not only a part of the problem she is the source of the problem."

That's a good reminder. I like that. Thank you. Important to remember that it's not just the stepchildren that can make life miserable. It's very important to have the support, respect and kindness of a spouse. And ideally, to have it naturally, immediately, without first having to explain to your spouse why their words or actions are hurtful...

You sound like you have a

You sound like you have a healthy outlook - treating your boyfriend well, and wanting to be treated well also. Basically, putting each other first, since you're the ones committed to each other, with each other every day, helping each other in every way.

I like the "mini-wife" phrase. In some odd way, my wife and stepdaughter's relationship sometimes seems almost incestuously close. Not really, of course, but enough to make me feel outside the "real" family.

"For you, though, you have to decide if it's worth going through the distress of trying to get your wife to see things this way, and hoping she changes, hoping she puts her daughter in her place...dealing with the wrath of her daughter, and trust me, her daughter will cause MAJOR issues."

Well, I'm trying to deal with this in as peaceful a way as I can. And I try not to walk away from a difficult situation. But I think you're right that, at some point, every person has to be able to leave a situation if they are really being treated poorly. Otherwise, you just leave yourself open to abuse, even if it's "only" emotional. I don't give up easily, so I'm still trying.

"I'm sorry you're going through this. It's not fun, I know. You sound like a very kind person. Unfortunately in "step" land, kind people get abused the most."

Thank you. Your words, and many others, have helped a lot. I'm glad that you have your own situation a bit more "worked out"... even though you do still have drama to deal with.

"And sure enough...this

"And sure enough...this Thanksgiving his sister called, once again wanting him to come to her house." After 13 years of being together, even if you do not live with each other, you would think SO's sister would get the hint.

I agree - nipping this B.S. early on in the relationship makes it a lot easier than later on like I did. I honestly believe if this had occurred in our marriage in the beginning, instead of 20 years later, SD and I would be able to tolerate each other. As it is now, I really don't care if there are any hard feelings on either SD or DH's part - DH can visit SD almost any time he wants but if he left me alone for the day of a holiday (unless there was a family emergency), I would raise hell.

Hello, Step Along. I just

Hello, Step Along. I just stopped in to say Hello and hope you are being good to yourself today. Please update us on how things went with your wife.

Thank you! I actually did

Thank you! I actually did read your post - and all the others - some days ago. I guess it just took awhile to face the emotions again. But it was very helpful to read so many people giving their thoughts, perspective, and support. I feel a lot of gratitude for all the posts here... and also sympathy for the struggles everyone else is going through. There wouldn't be so many posts if this situation weren't recognizable to other people dealing with similar problems, unfortunately.

I did post a few updates above on how the situation with my wife went. She did stay with me for Thanksgiving, although it took a couple looong conversations for her to really understand my emotions and perspective. And of course, the real root of this, her daughter's antipathy toward me, is not solved... but from reading many people's predicaments, I'm not sure that the unreasoning dislike of a stepchild for a new spouse of their parent is really solvable. It seems to come from someplace beyond just simple dislike, and from a more base and darker place, which isn't solvable by any amount of good will, or logic, or virtue, in dealing with them.

Some stepchildren manage to mature out of it and have good or at least tolerant relationships with the new parent, from what I'm reading in all these posts. Some don't. My stepdaughter is in her late 30s, and it seems dubious that she'll ever really mature past it. She was an only child, and from what I can tell, somewhat spoiled, never really told by any parent when some kind of behavior or talk was inappropriate or rude or hurtful. Her own mother almost cowers when her daughter (fairly frequently) talks to her in an irritated or angry tone. So, the stepdaughter really doesn't have any incentive to become mature, or kind, or balanced, or wise. She is smart enough that she can make a living without having to be "nice"... beyond a certain surface level. The sad thing is, because she's bright, I think she has the capability and potential to become much more emotionally mature... it just seems unlikely to happen, unfortunately.

It seems as if you have

It seems as if you have married my DH's ex-wife. You described my SD to a tee. What is really sad is that even though she is intelligent, she is emotionally stunted. Whatever happens to her, when she has disagreements and loses friends, when she loses her job, it is always someone else's fault. The best thing you can do is look out for yourself and insist that your marriage is top priority. If your wife can not do this, it would be better to move along.

I'm so sorry to hear this,

I'm so sorry to hear this, you sound like a kind man, and you have been very accommodating. You're lucky she doesn't live around the corner. I deal with the same awful treatment from my 32 year old SS. I have come to despise my husband for his lack of support, and I have decided divorce is the only way I will ever have any peace of mind. This rotten, spoiled brat can have his daddy back, I don't have a shred of respect left for my husband.

Ouch. I'm sorry to hear of

Ouch. I'm sorry to hear of your own situation. That bit about despising your husband for his lack of support hits a little too close to home. You've already decided on divorce... I hate the thought of failing at a marriage, but I will admit that sometimes I feel very betrayed and sad by my wife's lack of support. That's a very deep core feeling that doesn't go away. I try my best to keep my commitment and help her in every way I can... but I miss the feeling of it being a felt and true partnership, in both directions, where my wife would always insist that I be treated with respect and kindness, because spouses come first for each other. It is a very difficult feeling you have - I know.

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Outsider at Thanksgiving