Don't know how to react to my partner's daughter's behaviour... Any advice?
Hi all... could use some advice or support. I'm the long-term partner of a man with two daughters. I'm 36 and have no bio kids of my own, but grew up taking care of kids, have spent a significant amount of time working with and teaching kids and love them. I'm not married to my partner, and we don't plan to get married, but I consider his girls (19 and 
my stepdaughters. The elder daughter and I get along great and we have a really communicative and affectionate relationship. She also is close with her half-sister (the 8yo) and takes on responsibility with her too. The 8yo, until eight months ago was with us for 7-10 days then with her mom, who lived 10 minutes away for 7-10 days.
Eight months ago, the younger daughter's mother abruptly decided that she wanted to move with her back to her hometown an 8-hour drive away after she decided to end her then-current live-in relationship with a man and his 9yo son, with whom the 8yo got along with well. Pretty much the whole family, even the mother's family was against it as it was sudden, would disrupt the girl's schooling and would put her far away from her father, both grandmothers, her half-sister and the half-sister's family with whom she is also close. The 8yo was already having some behavioural issues that were coming out from trying to cope with the separation of her parents, but there was a lot of consistency for her until the move happened.
Up until this point my relationship with the 8yo was relatively good. We had our expected moments of difficulty, and her maternal grandmother had made some comments that because her father was with me now that he would love her less. We made a lot of effort to make sure that she felt secure that that was not the case, and I try to be conscious of giving her and her father enough space for themselves too. Since the move, however, the relationship between the 8yo and I has become increasingly rocky.
Of course, a lot of this has to do with her processing the move, not knowing what to expect and feeling insecure about what's going on. Other parts of it come from her own feelings about her parents separating, about loyalty and other things like that which are completely natural. But some of it also comes from her mother, from what I gather. I know that a lot of bio-parents let go of their filter and will use the kid as a tool to project what they want as a coping mechanism by telling their kid things about the step-parent, regardless of the inappropriateness of doing so. I have to assume that her mom must say things now and then, like "You don't have to be nice to her." or "You don't have to listen to her."
She's been acting out more since the move, in large part due to the irregularity of her visits (which are the fault of the mother) and the fact that they're often relatively short and can be stressful on all of us for a variety of reasons. It usually goes through a cycle of being happy to see me and affectionate the first day or two, then when she doesn't follow the rules of the house after Day 2 or so then things start to get hot and cold with her blaming me for things like getting in trouble for telling lies or not cleaning her room though I'm often doing something else in the house when her father catches her out. He's extremely supportive and tries to be as fair as possible. By the middle of the visit things are generally OK for the most part, until the day or two before she goes and then there's a lot of acting out again - mostly because she doesn't want to go and doesn't know how to handle that. So far she and I have been able to work some things out ourselves, others her dad's had to step in... still others are general things that get compounded with her mixed feelings for me. I just try to not take it personally, keep a cool head and show her I love her no matter what. It can get super hard, especially when the kid you love tells you they hate you (yup, that's happened). She's even taken to trying to making up stories or pulling off little schemes to try to get me into trouble with her father, like hiding things and saying I took them or saying that I said or didn't say certain things - especially when it's something she wants and her father already said "no" and she did it anyway. He knows things are up and down with her and I and we talk about it a lot and it's productive discussion and he's helped me through it quite a lot and know's she's no angel herself and that I'm making an effort but don't want to spoil her either.
We knew that the long-distance situation would likely be a shorter-term one and we were right. She'll move back to town with us (along with her mom) for the new school year. We also have her most of the summer.
Either way, I've noticed lately that she's picked up some rather vicious verbal habits that my partner and I are quite convinced come from her mom. She's now taken to saying some cursewords (which she's been talked to about by her dad) and today I heard something that was so out of order I'm almost leaning towards the idea that I might have imagined it and I'm not quite sure how to process this...
Today we went to a picnic birthday party in the part with some other families. Towards the end of the day, after she'd already gone up the hill to the playround with her dad once, she asked me to go up with her too. We went and we having a great time playing and she met another little girl with whom she started playing. I was pushing them on the swing and the little girl asked my 8yo if I was her mom. The 8yo said no. (This isn't the first time that we've been in this situation... She's fair and blonde-haired and blue eyed, and I'm dark olive-complected with dark hair and green eyes. We in no way look related. In the past she's laughed it off and said, "No, she's (and says my name)". Which is a savvy answer to a potentially uncomfortable question, if I do say so.)
This time, to the other little girl I swear I heard her say "No, she's a dumb whore." It was a true "Did I just hear what I thought I heard?" double-take moment. I still wonder that I imagined it, and I hate the idea that she would be capable of saying something like that because I can't think of anyone, except potentially her mom, who would use that sort of language around her. She just said and went on with the conversation. I was so stunned I didn't say anything because I'm extremely wary of confronting her about things unless I'm absolutely sure it's an issue and not a misunderstanding.
She said this in German, which though we communicate in German and French, I know she does make fun of my accent in German because though I'm fluent I sometimes can have a slight accent and she's used that to try to pick on me about it as kids will sometimes do to assert authority. If she did say it she might be counting on the fact that I was a bit away from them and may not have been able to hear or that she thinks I don't understand enough, which sometimes she thinks is true and tries to use to her advantage. With the general level of rather aggressive language she's been using the last few days since she's been with us, I can't discount it, but still...
I don't know how to react to this because I know her mom is likely taking measures to try to undermine any parenting influence I might start to have, but I also don't think I can stand by and let her behave like this and think it's acceptable. I don't want to say anything to her father until I'm sure that this is an issue, so should I wait and see if it happens again? Should I tell him this thing that was so straightforward but fleeting that I'm even doubting it myself?
Any ideas, input... anything would be a huge help. Thanks!
"I don't know how to react to
"I don't know how to react to this because I know her mom is likely taking measures to try to undermine any parenting influence I might start to have, but I also don't think I can stand by and let her behave like this and think it's acceptable. I don't want to say anything to her father until I'm sure that this is an issue, so should I wait and see if it happens again? Should I tell him this thing that was so straightforward but fleeting that I'm even doubting it myself?"
I would tell your husband what's been going on, but in a "hey, I think this is going on but I'm not sure yet" way. Her dad may want to speak with her in a general way about her thoughts since she's gone back to mom's and how she's feeling. He could just check in with her and lay some groundwork without any accusations. She has gone through many changes in her life and she is probably feeling totally powerless and insecure. If she expresses negativity toward you in this conversation, that will be telling. But she may not; she's smart enough to know to be catty and underhanded in disrespecting you.
When you talk to him, ask him, if the worst is happening, what he plans to do. See, there are two people with respect and pull with SD8, and that is her mother and her father. You, as a stepparent, don't have the relationship with her where she will automatically respect you, especially if her mother is poisoning her against you. So dad will have to be the one to lay down the law about how SD8 will treat you, and that is a "you do not have to like her, but you do have to respect her as an adult in your life. If you do not, then you will be answering to me."
That should help matters if she knows she is accountable to her father. He must, as the person who holds sway with her, stand up for you, his chosen adult partner. Many men are hesitant to do this, feeling that their children are fragile from divorce and to hold them accountable would be cruel. What is cruel is the lack of parenting with this attitude. Her father would not allow her to speak poorly to a teacher, a sports coach, and saleswoman in a store. You are no exception, and disrespecting you requires parenting. This girl, deep down, does not want to be allowed to run feral and determine her own life. She wants the security of two parents who are there for her and who, yes, hold her accountable. She may be displeased in the short term, but she will feel safe, and that is what matters.
If her mother keeps up the campaign, order a copy of the book "Divorce Poison" by Richard Warshak. Poisoning a child against the other parent or the other parent's partner is called Parental Alienation Syndrome (PAS), and if you this is happening, you must address it early with the child. The longer you let it go, the less chance of turning things around you will have. So if you become certain that her mother is the cause of this new attitude, get the book and learn what to do to combat it.
But her mother may not have anything to do with it. This little girl's life has been in upheaval, and rather than holding those whom she loves responsible for it (i.e. mom), it is sometimes easier to project that pain and anger onto another person. She may be scapegoating you, because, as the consistent stepparent in her life, she'd be able to lose you and not desperately hurt. Whereas getting angry at her mother would be frightening, since she already isn't sure about her mother's ability to provide her stability. And the man her mother left is not around anymore to blame. Therefore it may be coming out on you even though you've done nothing wrong.
It is sad, because of course you care about her and want to keep her safe, but are facing being blamed for decisions that you had nothing to do with. And this is part of the pain of stepparenting; understanding that you can try really hard, you can be really giving and present, and the children still may hate you due to all sorts of dynamics which you have no control over. Please keep it in perspective, because this is the reality that you are facing. A love for a stepparent isn't unconditional, and it can turn on a dime if the child wants someone other than her parents to blame for her feelings.
see my below comment and
see my below comment and thanks!
Cadence, thanks for your
Cadence, thanks for your really well-written reply.
I think the first tricky part is that I'm not a stepmom, per-se. For all intents and purposes I am, but her father and I are not married and as such the people around us don't refer to me that way, though I am very much a part of the family. Her parents are separated for now, and the divorce, because of the laws here in Germany, will take quite a bit of time. She's recently expressed some idea about he and I getting married, and a few months ago even went so far as to tell her mother that we were engaged (though we weren't), which sparked a frenzy of passive-aggressive texts from her mother. In one way it really touched us, but in another way it almost seemed she was trolling her own mom by saying it. In the end I think people who are step-parents in name get more pull than someone in my position.
For the most part, when there's conflict that she and I can't work out ourselves, or if she acts out towards me in a arbitrary way he's on the "You have to respect her as an adult in your life, or we'll have a problem" line of discipline. He's been spending a lot of time disciplining her, not only in regard to me but also her behaviour in other areas (lying, taking things that aren't hers, not keeping up with things she's responsible for, having poor manners with others among some other classic acting-out behaviours), much of which is unfortunately due to the recent inconsistency of the situation. She runs the show when she's with her mother, it seems, probably because her mother is rather deeply enmeshed with her, which must put an enormous amount of stress and pressure on the 8yo.
I have some circumstantial evidence from the 19yo, that the mother is likely actively coaching the 8yo against me. There was one visit in February when the mother and the 8yo drove up and the mother was to drop her off at our house as usual with that situation. My partner was running late getting home from work to be at the house for the drop off, and I had an important doctor's appointment so the 19yo offered to be at the house when the 8yo was dropped off and to be with her until one or both of us could be home. When I got home, her father had already come home and had taken her to the market with him to pick up some things for our dinner, which left the 19yo and I in the kitchen having some tea and catching up. The 19yo was really angry when the 8yo was moved away and hadn't spoken to her half-sister's mother since. I had checked with her beforehand that she would be OK interacting with the 8yo's mom and she said it was fine and that it was for the best if she did. When I asked her how the drop off went, what the general mood was, how did her sister seem, what was the mother's mood, did she have an OK interaction with her, etc. so I could have some idea what to expect, she said that it went OK but that she could hear the mother quietly telling the 8yo, "Remember, she can't tell you what to do and you don't have to listen to her. You don't have to be nice to her." She said she wasn't surprised to hear it and didn't know what to do but thought I should know. To be honest, I wasn't surprised myself, but I simply said, "Oh, I see." to the sister. My partner has also suspected that as well, and I know that the older daughter brought it up with him after the fact, though I haven't said anything. He's even said as much as he's quite sure her mom tells her those things too and it probably contributes to the current situation.
I know that the 8yo's behaviour may or may not have anything to do with me, and that's totally expected for this situation. I'm just wondering if I should bring it up with her dad now, wait and see if something like that happens again to be sure that it's a thing and then mention it, or take an entirely different approach? I don't want to overreact, or react prematurely to something that might be a battle not worth picking.
At the bottom of it all I just want to try to give her fewer reasons to have her mom proven right about me (which I'm not even sure that would mean but that's just what I feel right now), and to give her more chances to be open to my part in the stability her dad and I are trying to give her so at least some of these other external pressures she's feeling have some breathing room. Of course she's too young to understand any of this right now. I was in her place once too, so this is one reason I am so stuck on advocating for her so hard. I can totally identify with some of the things that she's going through, though I because of individual differences I dealt with it differently.
I'll make this fast she
I'll make this fast she called you a DUMB WHORE. Yes it will happen again, or other equally disrespectful horrible statements. Or worse statements. She did it, got away with it (thus far), .....be prepared. That girl is just getting started. She's 8, I promise you , you are in for a nightmare.
Don't get me wrong... I'm
Don't get me wrong... I'm relatively at the start of my whole experience here. Most of the first half of my time with her so far was mostly problem-free aside from the expected episodes of perceived jealousy, adjustment, etc. But since she's been mostly with her mom the last months and her mom's done her best to make visits as stressful as possible, tried to push the blame for postponed visits or missed events on him (for example, she didn't tell my partner that there was a school festival that he would have gone to until the day before and then tried to frame it in her voice messages on what's app as "She's sad you're not coming and the other kids at school think she doesn't have a dad", though she makes it virtually impossible for him to actually plan and make a trip down there.) it's been a whole different game.
That part is over with as she just arrived two days ago to stay with us for the summer. We'll have her for 3 weeks, then she's back with her mom for 2 weeks to spend time with her schoolfriends there and say goodbye then back with us for the rest of the summer until she starts back to her old school and her mom moves their things back up to where we live. I'm relieved that we'll have her for most of the summer and that once school starts we'll be back on her old schedule, and that she'll be with her older half-sister too. Her half-sister and I had discussed her behaviour and both agree that things will likely be somewhat better when we have her more often and there's more consistency and not all the rush and stress and intensity that came with the visits we had while she was living away from us.
Since this is the first serious instance of this, I'm going to see how the next few days go and if there's another incident bring it up. I'm quite sure that she doesn't realise that I heard what she said. If I obviously had (i.e. while making eye contact or being directly next to them and had akcnowledged it) then perhaps I would have to handle this more directly with her father right away, but first I want to see how much of a difference it makes with her knowing she'll be here for an extended period of time and will be in a place where there are rules and expectations for her. Already this morning there was a discussion with her and her father after she nicked some money from his drawer then denied it, so that framework is being put in place.
Am I being too cautious?
oops...double posted.
oops...double posted.
Oh, I don't doubt it'll maybe
Oh, I don't doubt it'll maybe get worse and of course it'll happen again.
I suppose I'm just wondering how to do something about this without overstepping my bounds and also compounding an already complicated situation with all the short-term drama etc. which might ease up once she's with us more often, or at least the problem will be more clear in shape and we'll have a better idea how deep it is and exactly what we're dealing with.
Thanks for the reply. It's just good to communicate with other people about this since I don't know anyone else in a similar situation with whom I can get some reality checks from
Thanks for the replies. All
Thanks for the replies. All along there's been a bit of name-calling etc. when the 8yo is feeling antagonistic to me - which is up and down. Until now it's been relative innocuous and my partner's spoken to her about it. She's gotten pissy at me for getting in trouble for her poor behaviour, and might ignore me completely for a bit but then she warms up again. I've been just taking that as it comes, which is fine.
Since it's rather suddenly that her reactions have some pretty adult teeth to them, and this was the first time she's said something like I wanted to see what you all thought since it's not (yet) a recurring thing but I'd like to address it before it comes a regular occurrence.
You were in shock so of
You were in shock so of course you didn't know what to do. But now you are forewarned so be ready for next time. Do not wait for Dad to show up. Handle it immediately.
imwith: What did you just say?
kiddie: mumble dumb whore mumble
imwith: that is a very unkind thing to say. You must apologize to me and to strange little girl for using such ugly words.
imwith: Now that's done, kiddie, you do remember I have a name? Yes, tell the little girl my name. Ah! That's great, we all have names, that's what we should call each other. Let's all write our names in the sand so we can help each other remember them. (goofy sand games ensue)
Do some version of the above. Tell dad about it later. At 8 you can keep reinforcing your authority as an adult and it is a very good habit to get into and to repeat often. Also reinforce your personhood as in the above. The more she objectifies you like BM wants her to the easier it will be to defy you and be cruel to you.
I would nip it in the bud
I would nip it in the bud right away. that's disrespect and you need to show kids where the boundaries are. otherwise they keep pushing and she'll just do it again and again. When my bf's daughter stuck her tongue out at me one time (shes 5), I called her out and stopped her in her tracks right away. 'you don't stick your tongue out at me. do you hear me? you can do that to your friends, but not me. do you understand me?' SHe nodded yes right away. last time that happened. And then I told the father so he's aware. He doesn't put up with any disrespect from them either.