Advice please
XH and DD9 are having a really tough time, and XH is dragging me into it. Basically, DD9 has been telling me the XH has been singing Bruno Mars "I think I wanna marry you" and talking about buy a ring and proposing to his GF. She said no, and they're breaking up, she's moving out. They've been living together about 2 years, around the kids for 3. That's a whole other ball of wax, but undoubtedly, DD9 is upset about this. She has a tough time figuring out what about her dad is bothering her. She told me he never picks her up on time, (always has an excuse about work/traffic etc, but is chronically 15 minutes late, everywhere he goes), she said when he does get them, he plays XBox, and she has to sit and watch him play, and it's really boring, and she doesn't understand why she should go there if it's just to watch him play video games. He asked me to find out what "her problem is." I relayed this information to him, and told him I assured her he wouldn't use it against her, or be mad at her. He denied all of it, but called her later and said he'd do better.
So tonight, he drops them off and wants to talk to me. He says he keeps trying (for like 3 days) and nothing he does works, and she treats him like crap, and it makes him feel like crap. He said this to her. From what I can gather, her problem is him. I talked to her again, and she said she was a little mopey tonight. Then she got frustrated with him because he told her she was cutting her chicken wrong. And I have no doubt he's laying the guilt on thick with her...he asked her out on a date just the two of them, and she said no. And she's really uncomfortable talking about it, and it seems she's totally in over her head with him. She doesn't know really how to respond, and she just shuts down.
I've told him this is his to fix, but he has no clue what he's doing, and the only thing I can think is it's more him than her. She introverted, and very organized and very independent. He's extroverted, really messy and is very emotionally dependent on anyone....and I assume he's using the kids as the crutch while he's going through this breakup. I don't really know what to tell my daughter, cuz I don't think there is anything she can do to make this better....and I know if I talk to him, he won't like what I have to say. Things have been amicable for a really long time, and I don't want to mess with it. I wish I had the all-saving advice to give either one of them, but on the other hand, I think there's not a whole lot I can do.
Any advice as to anything I can do, or just let this disaster happen?
AGREE! "the kids don't want
AGREE!
"the kids don't want to spend time with their other parent and the BM enables it."
I totally understand your
I totally understand your point here, and I can assure you not at all the case. I have step kids, and an alienating BM. I would never alienate my children from their dad and have some choice words for anyone who would. I also get that you're only getting a glimpse of the story here...but this is also a man who has said to me "I don't need to pick them up on my parenting time, that's just time you are not allowed to keep them from me." And when we were divorcing he said "After I pay for my apartment and all my other bills, the rest of my paycheck is going to you and the kids." It took a therapist to point out to me how really messed up that actually was.
I'm on the side of seeing how screwed up my ex is, and knowing based on the relationship he and his sister have with their dad, (horrible) that his relationship with our daughter is easily going to get messed up, without any help from me. I'm doing my damnedest to avoid that, because I also know that little girls who have bad relationships with their daddies messes them up. I don't want that for her by any stretch of the imagination.
As far as his GF, over the past 3 years, I've accepted her as the new SM, had parties for the kids together, sat together at school functions, made small talk, exchange photos on Facebook etc. We're not "besties" but I have never said or done anything to make her feel anything but completely comfortable around me. So thanks for the POV, but PASer is implicitly not me.
Yes, this is quite accurate.
Yes, this is quite accurate.
As a stepmum to a girl who's
As a stepmum to a girl who's pulled this crap before, and been supported by her mother, my advice is for you to tell your daughter that she has to go to daddy's house and that's that. When she complains to you about him, tell her you can't do anything and that she needs to talk to him.
My SD came up with some absolutely ridiculous reasons for not wanting to come over, her mother got her to write a list, then proceeded to ring my husband IN FRONT OF THEIR DAUGHTER and read out the list! I was horrified. Who does that?
^^^That is bad^^^ A list of
^^^That is bad^^^
A list of why I don't want to visit my daddy :jawdrop:
Sounds like BM just used your SD to bash and emotional abuse your DH with your SD as the weapon, your BM lacks CLASS!
UGH!! That is awful. That is
UGH!! That is awful. That is something our BM would do! I have not entertained the notion of her not going over there, I told her she should read or play on a tablet, or play a game with her brother!! She dishes out the "I don't know what to do." crap on me all the time, and my response is usually "Oh, I can give you something to do. You won't like it, so you better entertain yourself before I catch wind that you're 'bored.'" }:)
Thanks for your input, I appreciate it!
I'd agree with this. Sounds
I'd agree with this. Sounds like she has some issues with what was going on at his house, but is stubbornly persisting with her resentment even when her dad tries to change things, I'd blame hormones too at her age. The two of them need to have it out and dad needs to tell her to stop being a stubborn brat and that they should wipe the slate clean and both start to make more of an effort to have a nice time together. Dad has started, now it is time for his daughter to make the effort too.
^^^agree^^^ Both my kids
^^^agree^^^
Both my kids tried it, and SD9 tried it a year ago.
DD did it when she was 9 too, told Daddy that SD was getting all the attention and she was getting ignored (total lie) and then she got doted on and all the attention.
One day we sat her down to repeat all the accusations in front of her, that she made about me, and that she told me about him.
It was all lies.
And we were letting her get away with it! She was manipulating us by complaining about the other parent to get pity and special treatment.
Yeah, we've god SS12 with
Yeah, we've god SS12 with ADHD, and personality disorders in BM and XH out the wazoo. Why didn't they ever show this shit on the Brady Bunch?
Yes, this. You need to get
Yes, this. You need to get out of the middle. My DD would get upset with my ex, and I just told her that her father loves her. We might talk strategy about what she could do in certain situations (like dad ignoring her, etc.). My ex would frequently want me to "talk with our daughter" about her behavior/sullenness/back talk, etc. and I wouldn't do it. HE needed to be the parent too. (He was always very good at letting me parent then telling me I was wrong.)
My DD and her dad have a pretty good relationship now, so hang on to hope.
Your ex sounds just like
Your ex sounds just like mine. He does this quite frequently.
Love this. Thanks!
Love this. Thanks!
I didn't read all the
I didn't read all the responses.
When my two said they were "bored" at Dad's, I put that on them. There is always something to do - read, interact w/one another, listen to music, do schoolwork, go clean (whatever - their room, the kitchen, the bathroom they use), etc. Offer to organize Dad's.... cd's, dvd's, bookshelves... Your daughter is certainly old enough to entertain herself.
I agree that this is between them to fix. Your daughter goes, period. Suggest to Dad that he consider counseling for the both of them, if they need a third party to help figure it out (it should NOT be you!).
Thanks everyone. I
Thanks everyone. I definitely agree the hormones have set in, and not even at full force yet. I do appreciate my ex is trying, but also know he has no clue what he's doing. DD9 will dish out the moody behavior at my house, but she's here 85% of the time, so in the grand scheme of things it's not so bad. When she does it here, I pay it no attention, or playfully pick on her to make her smile, or send her to another room, and she usually snaps herself out of it within an hour. She dishes it out at his place when he barely sees her, and he takes it really personally because he doesn't have the luxury of seeing her in that good mood once she's snapped out of it. As the victim of PAS on behalf of my skids and their BM, as well as not being an outright bitch and scum of the earth human being, there's no way I would ever do anything to intentionally alienate my kids form their dad, which is why I tread this so carefully.
The deal with his GF is just more of his immature crap that he gets involved with. She was still married and living with her husband and kids when they got together, and she moved 30 minutes away, then an hour away, and lost all custody of her kids. She moved in with my ex, and got the kids every weekend, and mysteriously lost that, and gets them every other weekend, and her children are NEVER to sleepover when my children are there (because she has 2 boys, I have a boy and girl, and they're sharing a bedroom double bunk beds in their two bedroom apartment, which is apparently this major issue with her court--not illegal in our state btw). My ex is also a pathological liar (if you haven't already gathered from the tales about his GF in court), which doesn't help matters. We always show DD a united front, but he's gotten me pissed at her by not being honest, and this is part of why she is rapidly losing respect for him.
So I think it's her hormones, coupled with the fact that his home has just become unstable, and she's testing him to make sure the stability is still there.
Basically....I told her "When you're moody, nobody wants to be around you. And they shouldn't have to be. So go into another room if you are feeling that way. And if Dad asks you to do that, that is what you do, because you need to be respectful. He is your father, and he will always be your father and nothing will ever change that." And I emailed him back and let him know I think it's hormones, what I told her and if she wants to be beastly during their visits, then it's her loss. I told him, beyond that, there's not a whole lot else I can do...that it's for him to work out with her.
But I will not abide by her being outright disrespectful.
Maybe she should be
Maybe she should be encouraged to focus on what she is thankful for about her dad instead of "What bugs you about your dad"...At this point, even though she may disagree with him, or have to deal with him being late and even a bit selfish at times....He is still her dad...and she needs to respect his position in the family... If he pulls back those boundaries now to accommodate her unhappiness...you will all pay a big price for ultimately giving her a position, that was not intended for her. Oh sure, it may seem small right now, but you would be amazed at how quickly her view of her role in the family can become skewed.
She starts challenging him as her equal and she will quickly rise into the seat that you once sat in that is now void in his life...The perfect storm to mini wife issues. Once they taste the power of that seat...they do not relinquish it easily. Now that there is no wife, or girlfriend occupying that space...she will be naturally inclined to move into that empty space. and your ex needs to be careful that his emotional weakness does not make him the initiator of her moving into that position or taking on that role in any way...
Most of us with stepdaughters find ourselves wrestling with that very issue...because that becomes our seat when we marry him, and depending on how long the sd has been occupying that role and how much the ex has leaned on her to fill that role...has a direct correlation to the battle we end up fighting when we marry these men.
Even though it may feel somewhat satisfying to see your daughter coming to you regarding this short term issue...I would advise you to think carefully about her in the long run. How your response will effect her loyalty and closeness with the two of you today is an illusive trap to tempt you to do what gratifies you for the moment instead of protecting his role as the father and your role as her mother, while reminding her subtly she is the child here...It is not her job to judge him on his tardiness...It is her job to honor his position regardless of his shortcomings...It is not her job to move into the vacant seat now openly available...it is her job to remain the kid...and not become his emotional crutch...or the trophy of loyalty between the two of you...(I am no saying that is what you are doing...i am just saying be aware of the motive for your response)....
He may be a bit floundering with what to do, and a good counselor may help instruct him to get you all through this successfully for her future...See the forest through the trees....you need a giraffe's perspective on this one...In the long run...what's right for all of you?...It's moments like these that I have seen bio parents absolutely ruin their kids....Because the mentality behind divorce and the fallout is there is a winner and a loser..(and no one wants to come out on the bottom)...be careful...you could be trading off a win win situation for a... temporary...( what seems to be victory at the moment)..In the long run, if she becomes her father's biggest critic, and she loses respect for his position...you will ultimately all lose as a family. But she could very well be the biggest loser in the end...
Yes, he sounds selfish, and screwed up with his priorities....but he is still her dad...You and him chose not to stay married...Your choice...but nothing will change the biological fact that God chose him to be her dad...and if you let your personal feelings toward him bleed over into that arena...you will influence her relationship with her father....it will become apparent through the way you choose to respond to these situations...So many time when there is a divorce..the kids are subconsciously made to choose...how can they?...you are the parents that were chosen to be her parents...nothing will ever change that...peace
Thank you for this...while
Thank you for this...while I'm absolutely not condoning her bad behavior to him, and I'm using this site to vent my true feelings, I am very careful with her about finding out what is bothering her, and upholding that her dad is in charge when she is with him. And I appreciate everyone coming forward and giving me the ammunition to defend that position, even when I disagree with how he does things....that way I can go to her with 100% certainty, not even a hint of condescension of him. I know it's hard in these situations that if you hide your true feelings, the kids can still pick up on them, and it's upsetting that he can put his kids on a back-burner, and I see that, and I wonder how long it will be before the kids see it as well. And then raises the question, do I prevent them from seeing it, or do I just let nature take its course? That's really what brought me in to pose the question in the first place.
I thank you, because I really want to warn him about the mini-wife catastrophe that could be set up here, and it's definitely something I don't want her going through.
This is XH's issue to
This is XH's issue to resolve. However, you can be supportive of both your kid and your XH by giving your kid the message that you are there for her but that she must refer to her father in respectful terms even if she is frustrated with him.
My SS-22 has struggled with his entire Sperm Clan since he aged out from under the CO when he turned 18. His Sperm Idiot and Sperm GrandHag pester him for money to help raise his 3 younger half sibs, his two youngest also out of wedlock sperm idiot spawned half sibs by baby mama #3 are regularly in trouble with the law because they are trying to live up to the Sperm Idiots life long goal to be in a black street gang. Being a Crip or a Blood has been his ambition since he was in his teens though he is not black. The two youngest spawn are bi-racial so they can ascend to the aspirations of their Sperm Idiot and are working hard to live up to his expectatios.
When SS throws out derogatory comments we stop him short and insist that though completely understand his frustration, anger, and hurt, he must refer to his Bio Dad respectfully. He can complain, recount stories, and vent, but he cannot call them offensive names or refer to them as toothless moron idiot dipshits, etc... even though undoubtedly are. IRL his mom and I do not badmouth the Sperm Clan. That is why I come here. }:)
LOL...totally with you there.
LOL...totally with you there. It is a little upsetting to know that once the kids are adults, we still aren't allowed to bash....but I supposed that's okay. That's what friends and step talk is for. I should really hang out in the adult forum more, huh?
Oh, you are more than allowed
Oh, you are more than allowed to bash and even have fun doing it. We just temper it when directly discussing it with the Skid to not risk pushing him towards his toothless drooling moron Sperm Clan just in case he gets offended. Though our words call him on speaking of them with respect he can't possibly miss the slight smirks on our faces when he is ranting and venting. Hey, we are only human you know. We have to enjoy the destruction of the dipshitiots on some level.
This is all part of our life long master plan to destroy the evil idiots. }:)
Everything you are describing
Everything you are describing about your ex is similar to how my ex behaves and he is a psychopath. My kids are 12/13 now and there is a psychological impact that I will probably never understand, even though I see the things he is doing to them. They have a very superficial relationship with him and he lies constantly. About everything. I mean EVERYTHING. Always late. Always selfish. Always blaming other people when things go wrong. He will text me, "Have the kids call." When the kids don't call (even after I tell them) he gets upset. He puts it on the kids; it's their fault they have a crappy relationship, because they won't call him... Why can't he just freaking call them himself?!
Even if your ex is not a psychopath, these behaviors are very hard for children to handle. It's not physical abuse, but psychological abuse that people don't see. When he is playing xbox instead of doing ANYTHING with his daughter, it sends a message, loud and clear, especially if he only has her 15% of the time. Anyone who wants to minimize this has never been neglected by a parent (and a step parent forum isn't the best place to get parenting advice). If I were in your situation, I would simply have regular conversations with my daughter about everything under the sun so that no topic is off limits. I would assure her that she is loved and that's really all you can do.
After years of "pretending" everything was normal, I finally told my kids last year that their dad is sick and the way he is treating them is not okay. I told them it's not their fault, and it's not that they aren't good enough, but that he is not well. They were relieved. His behavior and my reactions weren't adding up. It was as if me saying/doing nothing was condoning his behavior. Of course, it's easier for me to be honest with them because I don't have to send them off with him for visits (he has supervised visitation).
I hope that your ex is just a shitty parent and not psychopathic. Because there is something a bit more sinister in someone who will never have any regret about anything bad they ever do.