Planning
After reading and pondering posts here, and posting my own rant, I've come up with a plan to begin dealing with my dilemma. What do y'all think?
My situation isn't nearly as bad as some of yours. Having heard my complaints, my SO has set some pretty firm boundaries on a kid who's never lived with us and who really is pretty responsible and well behaved. His biggest problem is that his parents hate each other and separated when he was 5.
He's now 21 and in college, and is spending the summer with us.
This probably sounds idyllic, but I am his worst nightmare. And as all of you know, skids have their little ways. My SO and I have been together for 7 years and up until this summer we've rarely fought. But for some reason (ahem) we have been at each other's throats the entire summer. I will take my fair share of blame, but they will by George take theirs.
What with one thing and another, our relationship has sustained tremendous damage during the kid's 3 months here. It's so bad that, although we were talking about marrying later this year, as far as I'm concerned that is off the table indefinitely. I've made a decision to put arguments on hold and delay serious discussion about this mess until the kid goes back to school in 2 weeks. Meantime I'm just about able to be civil. When the kid is safely out of earshot, his Dad and I are going to be having some lengthy conversations, during which I will let him know that:
1. The kid will never, ever, stay with us again for more than 3 days at a time. Not negotiable.
2. I will require ongoing assurance and proof that, contrary to messages both clear and implied over the past few months, my SO considers our relationship primary. I will not ever again be put into a position where SO's affections are contingent upon a third party's perception of me. Not negotiable.
3. I am sincerely interested in knowing what SO's expectations were, because he clearly is not happy with the way things have gone this summer. He actually seems puzzled and hurt that they've gone so badly. What did he expect of his son, who is in a very difficult situation emotionally? What did he expect of me, spending 3 months with someone who clearly has decided that I'm the perfect receptacle for all the rage he feels toward his parents?
Yeah, we're going to be having some conversations, all right.
Have I left out anything important? What have any of you experienced in having such conversations with a basically well-intentioned bio parent? I'm pretty good at launching this kind of discussion without bringing out the heavy artillery, but always can use some pointers if you have them.
Thanks in advance.
I learned way too late to be,
I learned way too late to be, as Twizzler wrote, 'Specific'. May I suggest writing down specific instances where SS and DH have over-stepped your boundaries, then presenting them to DH? If I had done this early on in the marriage I truly believe a lot of misunderstanding and heartbreak would have been avoided. There would have been two ways this could have gone: One, DH would have refused to insist on respect for me in my home and we could have ended the marriage before there were any financial complications. Or two, DH would have realized the marriage was his top priority, and insisted that SD respect me as his wife. As a result of waiting too long to set my boundaries, there were too many instances of abusive behavior to just let go of which caused small resentments to intensify into gigantic ones. When I finally DID ask DH for specifics on how I was "making SD uncomfortable" or other accusations SD screamed at me, he could not come up with a single instance. I think this was when he started to see the situation as it really was, how little of a role I played in SD's rage. It's been 3 1/2 years since I've seen or heard from SD, nothing has ever been resolved. It has taken a long time for me to begin to heal from the betrayal I felt as a result of DH's inaction and disrespect for me.
You are in a good place because you have not agreed to marry this man yet. You wrote, "I will not ever again be put into a position where SO's affections are contingent upon a third party's perception of me." Does this mean your SO was withholding the affection he usually gives to you because of his son's misguided anger toward you? If so, this is one thing that needs to be resolved before you ever agree to marry. Another thing SO needs to be informed of is if you DO marry, and he fails to provide the love and support a husband is supposed to give a wife, you will not be afraid to stand up for yourself.
One thing you might point out to DH: By disrespecting you, SS is actually disrespecting DH and his choices.
"there were too many
"there were too many instances of abusive behavior to just let go of which caused small resentments to intensify into gigantic ones".
Wow Sandye21; this statement really got me. You just summed up exactly how I feel and what happened in my marriage. DH kept letting SD get away with being disrespectful to both of us and boy did the resentment grow. It grew inside of me like wildfire. Instead of making his little precious princess responsible for her bad behavior towards both of us, he made excuses for her. He would defend her to the ends of the earth. I couldn't even say her name without being accused of rolling my eyes or using an unfriendly tone. If he said her name and I moved my head to the side then this means that I was rolling my eyes and trying to hide it. I couldn't do anything right. The more I got reprimanded and accused if mistreating little princess, the more the resentment grew. DH would never let anyone else disrespect me but had no problem letting princess be abusive and rude. The excuses really got to me. For instance:
Me: honey, princess is here visiting in our home. She is talking to everyone but me. She won't look at me. If I try to engage her in conversation she responds with one word answers in a mean tone of voice. Would you talk to her about this?
DH: you are being too sensitive. Princess is tired, princess doesn't mean it. She would never do that. I'm not going to bring it up with princess because she's done nothing wrong.
(In this scenario my dad and my 3 boys were present. They all commented to me later on how princess was acting towards me.
Me: honey, princess was attacking you verbally on the phone and in an email that she sent to me. She said you were drunk all the time when she was little, that you were a bad father, that you were supposed to pick up her and her siblings for visitation but you wouldn't show up because you were drinking. Princess accused you of not paying child support and poor poor BM had to raise the kids by herself. Princess said you were never there for her to support her financially and emotionally.
DH: oh I'm sure you must have misunderstood. She's just upset that BM and I divorced 25 years ago. Princess has been asking lately why BM and I got divorced; she's just been upset lately about the divorce that happened when she was 2 years old as it was traumatic for her. She didn't mean it and you know that those things she said aren't true. Remember princess is mentally ill and is just having a hard time and a bad day.
Me: honey, after princess got done bashing you she decided to attack me. She called me a bad mother, said I am an alcoholic and pill popper, that I am a gold digger and using you for your money. Princess said I dress like a slut and showed up at her cousins wedding (who she hadn't seen in 7 years) with my breasts hanging out.
DH: remember princess is mentally ill. She didn't mean it. She's just upset that we are together. You know that you aren't those things and didn't do what she's accusing you of.
Me:honey, in response to princesses rant about how awful we are, I decided to call her an ungrateful, spoiled brat; I said this to her on the phone. I've had enough. I wasn't going to let her get away with trashing both of us and saying such awful things. I wanted to defend you more than defend myself. I love you and I will not tolerate anyone speaking about you in this way and spouting lies. I am very upset at how we are being treated.
DH: how could you do that! You know she's mentally ill. Princess is very distressed and has been calling me a lot and she is so hurt by what you've done. I can't believe you would treat my own daughter like this. She didn't deserve how you spoke to her. I am very angry with you and I need time to get over what you've done. Princess is pregnant and you have caused her and the baby a lot of stress. (Nevermind that princess was chain smoking during her pregnancy and caught an STD from having unprotected sex. She ended up being hospitalized due to the infection but of course these things wouldn't harm the fetus; oh no--it's evil Amber that is hurting the fetus). DH: You better hope that baby is born ok because if it isn't (didn't know if the baby was a he or she that's why I said "it") you will be to blame for all the stress you have caused my daughter. How could you be so mean to my princess.---(note: DH barely spoke to me for a month afterwards. He would spend time with me and he had to talk to princess everyday and be there to support her emotionally as I hurt her so bad. This event damaged our relationship in a severe way. A few months go by and DH asks me to send princess an email apologizing to her for my bad behavior. (Nevermind what she did).
This story is true and accurate.
You just really got me thinking Sandye--this was a horrible time in my life. This was 4 years ago. Also, she may have been pregnant but I have a rare auto- immune disease and I was very sick when this happened. I was so weak and in so much pain but of course her pregnancy was more important as she is the first woman on earth to have a baby (sarcasm). Only 1 in 200,000 have what I have and have to take awful medicines like prednisone to stay alive. Since then princess kept attacking DH and her behavior escalated. She would call him screaming (literally screaming at the top of her lungs) about how horrible we are. She told him she wasn't going to ever see or speak to him ever again unless he divorced me. Well, we are having our wedding/vow renewal next year as I was too sick when we got married to have a wedding. We had a civil ceremony and we really wanted our wedding. Hahaha bitch it didn't work. God she is such a piece of work. She's been out of our life for over a year now and it's been fabulous. We don't fight about her anymore, no more of her stupid drama, no more daddy driving an hour away and back in order to take this ungrateful brat/bitch out to expensive restaurants so she can stuff her face and shopping sprees afterwards, wasting the whole damn day catering to her spoiled ass. DH says he really doesn't miss her and BM and their nonsense. He now sees how evil she is but I'm still not over the betrayal that I feel as a result of how he used to defend her and come down on me as a result of her lies and manipulations. I'm so glad that bitch is gone. I'm sick of the mental illness excuse as she knows right from wrong and she is extremely intelligent. (Please note I take mental illness seriously but when my SD uses it as an excuse to lie, steal, manipulate, etc, it makes me upset. I'm sure there are many of you that can relate to this story.
Well thanks for reading and allowing me to share my experience and all. You all take care.
Amber, I am sorry if I
Amber, I am sorry if I awakened the feelings of resentment and betrayal that you felt for both SD and DH. It was totally inexcusable for your DH to ask you to send her an apology. Period. I have to tell you I can completely identify with it. I would tell my DH. "SD slammed the door in my face." Answer: "I didn't see it." Me: "SD is having mumbled sideline conversations with her hubby while in the same room with us." Answer: "Didn't hear it." Me on my birthday: "Why is SD refusing to acknowledge my existence?" Answer: "I didn't notice."
As you know, mental illness is characterized by a jagged line of behaviors. Most mentally ill patients are quite sane a good percentage of the time but can not seem to keep hold of that sanity when they feel provoked or threatened. It makes me wonder if at times your SD used her mental illness as a free pass to misbehavior.
My SD is a narcissist but not mentally ill as far as I can tell. But DH used the same logic with me for years, actually crying big tears because SD was so misunderstood and denied of the life she deserved, due to the divorce. What I'm saying is, if your DH wouldn't have used the 'mental illness' excuse he would have found another one in it's place so he wouldn't have to address the elephant in the living room. And then again, we WERE rather convenient weren't we as far as diverting any blame? It's been 3 1/2 years since I've seen or heard from SD. DH and I get along a lot better without the negative energy SD injected when she was around, but it would be so nice to hear, "I'm sorry. I was wrong."
Hi Catmom-- God, no kidding.
Hi Catmom--
God, no kidding. It is really hard to get over when the person you love allows their adult brat to be abusive towards you. I like your comment that we shouldn't have to get over it. You know, I used to try and work to get over it but once I allowed myself to feel the pain, the betrayal, the sadness and the isolation; that's when I actually started to feel better. It took years of therapy and posting about my situation over and over and over on this website. I am so grateful for the caring people I've met here; you included. Thanks for your comment. I know you're going through a lot lately with the grand baby. Hang in there.
No worries Sandye. It's
No worries Sandye. It's amazing that I still have such strong feelings about this but I guess I do. It's hard to let go after being betrayed the way I had been. It is nice to be able to come here and have people like you to listen to my long story. It is amazing how these daddies refuse to see the abuse that their spawn perpetrate against us yet the moment we look at their spawn sideways then we are in trouble. It's unfair and it makes me mad.
You're description of mental illness is spot on. I think you really captured the essence of it on your description. You are right, my SD wears her mental illness like a badge; a badge that allows her a pass no matter what she does and a badge to break laws, be abusive, lie, manipulate and steal. It's very sick. I think it's the personality disorder that is really in charge here.
The narcissism is the worst. My SD is definitely a narcissist. It sounds like you have been where I have been. I'm thrilled for you that your step-devil has been gone for 3.5 years. You are so lucky. We are at a little over a year with no SD. it's been blissful. It was nice talking to you. Take care.
You take care too. It DOES
You take care too. It DOES get more blissful as time goes by without the narcissistic games.
Thanks, everyone, for your
Thanks, everyone, for your insights. Here are a few additional comments.
I deliberately refrained from confessing skid's sins. You've heard it all before, and possibily experienced it. It's mostly been passive-aggressive disrespect--you know, things that make you sound like a raving paranoiac when you list them out loud. Skim through these forums and you'll get the drift. Hey--toying with your opponent within the boundaries is what makes tennis such a great game, right?
I also am deliberately choosing to emphasize that I understand why skid is behaving this way. But understanding doesn't mean excusing, and it doesn't mean I don't know he's being an evil little shit. I'm just trying to think about this more softly than I'm actually inclined to do, so that I can be at least a little bit tactful when I talk to his Dad, who's unlikely to respond well to my frank assessment of his son.
It's a very good point that skid owes it to his father to respect his choices. SO really seemed to absorb that, and I plan to re-emphasize it when we talk about this again.
And yes, my desire to be somewhat tactful aside, I am very capable of ending this relationship if SO won't make agreements and keep them. For starters, I'm going to advise him that our getting married is off the table until we see how the next few school breaks go. He brought marriage up again last night. (Did I mention I've unilaterally declared a truce? And does he think I'm insane to drop that bomb into this tinderbox?)
I just waved my hand and said, "Not a good time to discuss it." I'll let him know exactly why in a couple of weeks, after skid is gone and everyone has calmed down a bit. Suffice to say I'm in the fortunate position of wanting a wedding less than SO does, especially after the way things have gone around here over the past few months.
Thanks again, all.
It depends how analytical the
It depends how analytical the guy wants to be about himself and his kid. For example, your 3-day rule will no doubt be analysed to the nth degree when he tries to suggest it is an arbitrary figure that you have plucked out of the air. You will need to justify what is so magic about 3 days (apart from the fact that that is the longest you will put up with nuisance) that he should buy that idea. Personally I feel that rather than stipulating a number of days I would make it more spelled out and
say what went wrong (b) say how it has to go right in future (c) say that you want a joint meeting with SO and the SS when you next meet, perhaps when visiting him in a neutral venue rather than on your territory, and at that meeting say the same thing only this time jointly, but adding the condition (d) either privately to OS or to the pair of them in the later meeting, that if there is an infringement, he leaves that day.
Remember, if you make stipulations about behavior to SO then he will NOT relay them to the son because in my experience this sort of man never does at first. He is too fearful of rejection by the child and too apologetic to really lay it down. One then gets a comedy of errors where the parties all meet again, SO has reassured SM that he and SK have spoken, then SK unwittingly does something unacceptable, SM wants the infringement dealt with, and SO finds himself with his back to the wall, caught out in all his waverings, and then SM then comes under attack from the both of them. SM in these scenarios begins to be seen as the angel of punishment by both males. This is unpleasant. Which is why now when I have trouble with my SS, I lay it down to him direct and cut out the middle man.
One way I've found helpful with my DH is to point out that clearly when the skids were growing up they were subjected to parental acrimony and came to see it as something that somehow benefited them. In our case the acrimony only came at the end of their marriage because my DH had so appeased the BM until then, and when he sued for divorce all hell suddenly was let loose. But having seen the effects of this acrimony on my skids my DH was quite open to the suggestion that the skids when adult and when no longer seeing any acrimony between their own parents, somehow wanted to relive it by trying to provoke it between DH and me. If you can hit that self-analysis and parental guilt button of your SO it can be quite enlightening for him and he can come to understand that the aggression from the skid toward you is actually twisted attention seeking and the only way the guy feels he can get attention is by invoking his own parental relationship between SO and you. You're in a strong position to make these points to your OS precisely because you are not yet married. YOur OS might understand why you would not want to simply step into the same pattern that he may have had with BM and would not want to buy into that nonsense.
I wish you luck in this
I wish you luck in this endeavor. I also believe when the skid is gone he will make a lot of agreements to diffuse the situation. I know how much playing second fiddle to a skid can hurt. The betrayal is tremendous, especially the first time. Plans for an outing are made. Skid calls wanting to get together with DH. DH picks a fight with me so he feels justified in leaving for skid. It's not getting any better either!