Skids and College Education
Stumbled upon this site because I was trying to figure out some step-family issues. Figure I could get some insight from the members here about a few things. Two situations, both involving money. In both, skid (interesting name for us) is college aged. Father is divorced and engaged/remarried. They both make the same amount of money. Skid is civil to SM/father's SO, if not overtly kind (skid is a quieter type, and the situations in which the skid interacted with SM were a bit weird for skid, so skid would not be surprised if skid only hit "civil" and not "kind" or "welcoming" in her eyes).
1. Skid is about to enter college or skid is in college, on track to graduate with honors.
Appropriate or inappropriate to send money for tuition?
Room & board (on-campus dorms and cafeterias, university-administered)?
Personal expenses (as set out by the university's student budget information)?
Does it matter if skid had been in college for a few years and made the choice to attend this college based on assurances from the then-married biological parents that they would cover such expenses? For what it's worth, skid has a substantial scholarship and a student loan (personal to student, no co-signer) that covers the majority. No problems with skid completing school or having been in any sort of trouble.
2. Skid has to get molars removed, as they have become impacted and have started giving skid pretty bad headaches. On prior dental visits, skid was told that he might or might not have to get the molars removed, but probably would ((i.e., >50% chance, but <75%). Unbeknownst to skid, skid recently has been taken off father's insurance plan (despite being told that coverage would continue for another couple years). Skid faces full freight bill for such removal. Who contributes, if anybody? If so, in what amount?
I appreciate your insights and comments. I know it's pretty obvious what I think. I just have no idea how to view these things through the eyes of my stepmom or my dad, so I have no idea how to approach the issue. To put it bluntly, I'm wondering if the above situations describe an entitled skid. Let me know if you want additional information.
I am a mom and a stepmom. I
I am a mom and a stepmom.
I think first and foremost you need to sit down with your parents (and stepparent too) and get this ironed out. It sounds like decisions to help you finance your education were made prior to the divorce, and now that a divorce has occurred you're not sure whether or not those promises will be kept. Same with being kept on health insurance. I think it's only fair that YOU know the financial state so that you can plan accordingly.
I don't see you as entitled. I see you working towards something and being responsible for your life. You just need to have prior promises of commitment either confirmed or denied because things have changed. I think your post is a very mature one.
I don't see 18 as the magic number with either kids or stepkids (although as a stepmom, I dream of the day my DH doesn't have to send it to the BM). I want my kids to work for what they have and not just have it handed to them on a silver platter. But if they're working hard and trying to do as much as possible on their own, I'm more than willing to help out here and there.
p.s. as for your stepmother -- it's difficult and just downright weird on both sides (stepparent and stepchild). Just continue to be cordial and inclusive.
IMHO, you should talk to your
IMHO, you should talk to your father and stepmom about losing your insurance and the molar situation.
With that being said, if you approach this as an entitled skid (not that you are) and you EXPECT to be given something the conversation probably will not go well. But if you approach this as I need to talk to you about college, the lose of insurance and need your advice you will probably get farther. Parents usually love it when their kids come for advice!
I am not sure about your state but our state the parent can carry insurance on the child until age 26. If that is true in your state and you are under that age AND your father (or BIO-Mother) has an insurance plan I would see if they would agree with keeping you on their insurance even if you pay for all of your co-pays and deductibles. That is something I would discuss with them. If you were my child or skid that is what I would suggest.
As far as helping to pay for college expenses I would lightly approach the subject and see if they agreed to help. But if they do not, try not to be offended and try to keep a great relationship with your Dad and a kind/good relationship with the Stepmom!
You did not say if your Bio-Mom will be helping out with any of these expenses. In most situations I think the Bio-parents should split all cost of their children. Do not expect your Dad to pay/help pay and your Bio-mom is not expected to contribute.
I have been on my own since I
I have been on my own since I was 18 and paid for my under grad and grad school on my own. I am very proud of that fact. It can be done, if there is a will there is way. My husband also paid for all of his schooling and he was in school for a decade. I don't know where the mentality came from that parents are supposed to pay for their kid's college. It actually annoys me.
That said, my husband and I are paying for my SSs college. Two in college, if you can imagine that $$$$. We do it because we choose to, we can afford to, and they are good kids. Things could change. My stepkids are not entitled to 100% of all college expenses paid and a car to drive around in. They are expected to work and pay for their books.
Now on the health insurance thing, if I were you I'd find out why/when you were dropped and why you were not notified. If you were my child, you'd be on my insurance and I would pay for your health costs. But that is just me. Does your university offer and sort of health coverage?
Just based on the fact that
Just based on the fact that you are asking the opinions of others shows that you are not a spoiled child with a sense of entitlement. Those kids don't ask, they DEMAND their so-called rights. That's been my experience as a new stepmom.
I partially helped my two sons pay for college. Their biological father (we were married 23 years) refused to pay a dime, even though he owned his own company and was quite well off. His logic was, he paid his own way through college, the kids can pay their own. Very cold- hearted he was, and when he came to our son's graduation party and was handling and looking at the beautiful diploma on the table, I took it out of his hands, and set it back on the table without saying a word. He did nothing to help, why should he enjoy the celebration?
My older son enlisted in the military, and they paid 100% of his tuition, but of course he had to risk his life when he was called into active duty for one year.
My younger son graduated valedictorian of his class and got an athletic scholarship as well. Still, it was not a full ride and at a Big 10 college, he still needed to supplement with student loans. Upon graduating magna cum laude with a degree in software engineering, he paid off his debt of $50,000 in student loans the first year of full employment.
Happy endings for both, and they can be proud that they made it happen.
I think the military paid for son's wisdom teeth too.
From past experience your
From past experience your damned if you do and your damned if you dont
I have a crazy SD33 who says I have never done a thing for her in her entire life, She seems to forget "I" was the one who sent her a check every month during her 5 years in college for her apt. rent and grocery/utilities and kept her on "MY" medical insurance. You cant win either way. If I had known then what I know now she would have been on her own all the way!! And I would have had one hell of a vacation paid for.
Have a conference with both
Have a conference with both of your parents and get everything spelled out so you are not disappointed. But you should not expect your SM to contribute to your college education - especially if you were close to being grown when your SM and father were married. If your SM does decide to contribute, please give her credit for helping.
I went through this with SD shortly after DH and I got married. I paid all of our joint expenses so DH could pay his share of putting SD through college. He was not well off at all but she would not consider a local Jr. college for the first two years. She was 'entitled' to attend a 'better' college where he and BM paid all expenses plus housing. She did not put in for a scholarship or grant. At this time I also paid for DH's and SD's health insurance. I have never recieved any acknowledgement for my contribution. It was simply owed to her.
A side note: My parents did not help for me to go through school. In fact, I had to get a full-time job, leave home and support myself when I was 18. I never got a degree but did well for myself career-wise. Not too long after SD graduated from college SD told me she looked down on people who dd not have degrees. This was, of course, when DH was not present.
I found your post a breath of
I found your post a breath of fresh air. Just the fact that you are asking these questions points in the direction of you not taking things for granted... Good for you! What i would like to know is a)how many siblings and step-siblings you have, if any; b)how many years your mom, dad and SM have till retirement; c)whether you have a job.
In my situation the skids are entitled to the nth degree. The oldest, who is 23, demands that her parents pay off her student loans which (surprise, surprise!) keep growing while she is in grad school. She has 2 younger siblings and 2 younger step-siblings, that is to say that my husband and me have FOUR more kids to put through college. Why she thinks anyone owes her anything at this point is beyond me, she is fully capable of holding a part-time job while in school. It is also a factor that my husband does not have that much time till retirement, and in this country ( i am in the US) the social safety net available to those 65 and older is inadequate. So it would be a matter of prioritizing, in my opinion. What other financial obligations do your parents have? How able are you to support yourself or at least contribute to your budget?
I have to tell you, as many have said before me, i am proud of putting myself through grad school while working 3 jobs and raising 2 young kids. I applied for all kinds of scholarships and got some but no one gave me any money just to help me make ends meet. I did it all myself and gained a lot of confidence while doing it.
Thanks for all the responses
Thanks for all the responses and all the insight.
To clarify the fact pattern a bit—my specific situation is the one where the skid is mostly through school, ¾ of the way in fact. The divorce happened during sophomore year, and junior year was paid for without issue. Senior year is proving to be a bit more difficult.
For everybody who indicated that parents have no obligation to pay for their kids’ college educations – does the lack of obligation legitimize the withdrawal of promised aid? Or is it a mistake to think of the aid this way? Or is there some other issue that I’m missing? I get never having it promised to begin with, and I understand the reduction because of changed circumstances concept. Sorry if this comes off as tendentious, I'm just probing a little bit more.
@Pilgrim Soul – I have one sister, five years younger. Dad has indicated he will not contribute to her college education. She is upset by this, but will at least have some foresight. No step-siblings (SM was previously never married). I highly doubt half-siblings, for medical reasons. Mom has probably 15-20 years til retirement; Dad has 8ish; SM has… well, I don’t exactly know her age at the moment, but I think 15 or so until she’s eligible, at which point I expect she will either retire retire or retire and work another job. I have a job, working at a law firm. Scrambling for a school-year job now. So much for relaxing a bit senior year. (Kidding a bit- working is the least of my worries.)
@NoSteppingStone & others – I included SM’s income mainly to indicate that BD is not experiencing a drop in living standard (as some indicated could be a consideration in understanding this picture). I would be horrified if my dad asked her to contribute as he would do this inappropriately, and surprised (and very grateful) if she did. But I certainly would not expect it, and I understand they have a household budget to follow.
At any rate, those points are somewhat moot. I’ve been given the financial hardship rationale regarding the college bill. Similar explanation regarding the insurance/dental work, and was told that I “should have taken care of that sooner.” BD is paying nothing for either of those. Prior to this decision, with respect to my college bill, BD had told me that he would “take care of” me and “do the best he could” for me.
Somebody asked this, so I’ll answer. BD’s and SM’s financial picture is sound, generally. Good jobs, with good job security. Salaries—about $1xx,xxx each, or $3xx,xxx combined. Think about the safest pension you could possibly have, and a nice one at that. BD will retire early (mid to late 50s), as will SM. Not without problems, though—probably just above water on the house, which is worth about $400k, and obviously the divorce weighs on the income and net worth (including BD’s pension plan, split with BM at the time of divorce).
BM is paying her part for both medical and college, that’s why I didn’t include her, though anybody who answered “nothing” also illuminated what they thought her contribution should be.
She makes 1/3 what BD does. I am aware that, financially, the divorce was probably easier on her than on my dad (leaving out, of course, stepmom’s financial position, as that’s not relevant to my situation). It pays to get a good divorce lawyer (…I’m probably preaching to the choir here, huh?).
FYI, with respect to the previous three paragraphs—my parents have always been big on teaching me financial responsibility and have usually been pretty open about this information, until recently with my BD. I’m no snoop. Also, BM’s “part” means proportional share of college expenses by income, and 1/3 of the medical bill (with me covering the rest; the proposed plan was splitting the bill evenly among BM, BD and me), and is not meant to imply moral obligation—that’s part of the question I’m here to have answered.
As for making my own way—well, I had my options to go to a couple nice schools with full scholarships, but based on the encouragement of my parents and their assurances regarding what they would contribute, I picked a much better school. I have no issue with being told to make my own way. I’ve held a job (or two) continuously since I was 15, bought my own car when I was 16, and paid for gas, insurance and maintenance on the car myself since then. I just want a little consistency in upholding the approach, whether it’s make my own way or receive some assistance.
I understand that divorce changed the financial picture, and I completely understand it’s my dad’s choice whether to contribute. Still, I don’t buy the financial hardship rationale (would you?), but I have no right to the information that would conclusively prove or disprove it (SM may be paying for the house, BD may have to save a bit extra for retirement to make up for the pension), and the choice would still be BD’s to make.
As some of you have indicated, it’s what this choice tells me that means the most. It’s just a shock to me because BD went from being completely willing to help me out with college expenses (BM had to negotiate him down from offering to cover 100% of expenses) to nothing at all now. BD pulled himself up by his own bootstraps, which I always admired him for, and he seemed to think he’d made it in part because he could help me through college. I was super grateful for this; I would have been willing to do anything for him, and I couldn’t wait to make it and begin to repay his generosity. Wish I would’ve told him that before he made this decision.
To be clear, I couldn’t give a sh!t about the amount of money. I’ll get a job, pay it off somehow. It’s just money. But I can’t clear up this decision so easily or the rationale that’s behind it, whether it’s BD no longer wants to pay, or SM doesn’t want BD to pay*, or they both decided that BD should no longer pay.
For what it’s worth, I’ll make it through okay. Most of the issue is touchy-feely stuff. It’s been a huge help just to talk to you guys. I know you’re probably more impartial than anybody else I could talk to, and I feel uncomfortable bringing this up anybody in the rest of the family (except BM, surprisingly, but obviously she’s partial) as they pretty much look for any excuse to rip BD and SM… which doesn’t help. I want sanity, not hate.
*This isn’t coming from nowhere—apparently, SM objected to BD paying for my and my sister’s flights out to visit him (he lives half way across the country from where we grew up and from where we go to school). BD claimed he wanted to pay. No idea
why he wouldn’t just pay and (b) why he effectively threw SM under the bus on that one. Trying to figure this out too, but for obvious reasons it’s weighing less on my mind.
As an aside, I can't believe
As an aside, I can't believe how much sh!t you guys have to put up with sometimes. And to think, I get concerned about referring to SM as "my dad's wife" because I feel really awkward about calling her my SM (because of the mom part-she and my dad married too late in my life for that).
I am both a stepdaughter and
I am both a stepdaughter and a stepmom. I was in your exact position when I was in college-- some financial promises had been made that were not kept.
First of all, I think you sound like a good guy who is genuinely trying to see this from all sides, and I really appreciate that, because my own stepson is a monster.
Anyway, I think your parents should pony up somehow for anything they can afford regarding your health, so I think they could pick up the teeth.
As for school, I am sorry, that is on you. I feel for you, having been there. I ended up working full time and going to school. I arranged it so all my classes fell either on T-TH or M-W-F each semester. I worked the alternate days. It sucked, but college was still pretty fun. My grades did suffer some but that made no difference in my life at all.
Hang in there.
Thanks again for the
Thanks again for the comments. Even the ones calling me out. Even if I disagree with some of the assessments, it's still healthier to acknowledge my potential faults and shortcomings than to pretend they don't exist.
I didn't think I was asking for more, just for fulfillment of a promise, or, if breaking the promise, a reasonable explanation, one that lets me know what's going on now. Am I owed one? I'm not sure I agree with the term "owed". It would certainly be nice, but I don't think it reduces down to what's owed or what isn't. It comes from a genuine desire to be understood, to maintain the bonds of a healthy relationship. To talk about what is owed or isn't owed seems toxic or at least empty--if you get respect because you are owed it, but the person doesn't truly feel respect for you... that seems like it would lead to the fake, passive-aggressive kind of respect, the kind that goes away as soon as there's nobody there to enforce it. Similarly, BD doesn't owe me an explanation, but being disingenuous about it also doesn't seem healthy.
The point about the financial situation is that, to me, it seems that BD picked a lifestyle that doesn't include fulfilling the college promise or covering medical bills. Which is fine from a technical perspective--it is his money after all. The difficult part is that the promise involved what he was going to do with his money, and it definitely came from him and was not coerced or forced by BM. So that was his choice, but he's breaking a huge promise and contributing nothing this year (anything at all would be worth more as a gesture than the amount actually contributed). I get that he has contributed a fair amount already, but the decision I made was based upon the whole promise, not 3/4 of it. I'd probably be in a better position without the promise (or the corresponding contributions) if that's what I had gotten 3 years ago. Alas, the best laid plans...
Not terribly fair in my opinion, but as stated, there's not much I can do about that and other opinions may vary (that's why I'm here!). I hear the points that it's still his money, so he can decide what to do with it, and that he might owe a newer, higher priority loyalty to SM. That does help me understand what's going on better. But maybe he should examine himself a little more if he can't just admit this is what's really going on--why feel guilty about it or dissemble if he truly believes its his prerogative?
At any rate, I do wanna work this out. Everybody's comments have been really helpful in pointing me towards new ways of viewing my relationship with my dad. I understand I will have to compromise, and I think I'll be in a better position to understand things going forward. We'll just have to see what fits I guess and hopefully it works out.
I gave off the impression that I wasn't welcoming toward SM, but I assure you that's not the case. From the perspective of an SS, it's freakin hard to know what to do. I have read a number of other threads on this site, and sometimes it seems like the oddest, slightest thing can be taken the wrong way. Generally if I keep reading, additional information comes out that makes it understandable how the SM or SD perceived the action, but it still kinda worries me that, without any intention to do so, I could seriously offend SM. (I know that relatively speaking, it's harder for her, hands down. No comparisons here, just trying to give my perspective from the other side.) I'd like to have a good relationship with SM. I understand that she's a big part of BD's life now. I am civil to her, and certainly try my best to be nice and welcoming. She does the same to me. It's all good. I just don't want a minor misstep (to me) to be a big deal (to her), or vice versa. And I wish there were a term in between step mom and dad's wife, or else some way less painful to explain I mean no harm or exclusion by my terms. Maybe she feels awkward about the mom part of step mom as well?
Before people get too upset about this, let me say that I don't think it's better for me to overdo it and act super-happy and buddy-buddy with her and call her step-mom or mom every chance I get. Even going a bit beyond what feels okay will probably come across as insincere. That's suspicious. If I'm insincere about that, what else am I insincere about? So I'd rather take it progressively and honestly. Maybe we'll get to a more solid relationship, maybe we won't, but it will take time. As people have said elsewhere in this thread, we have opposing interests that are still getting sorted out (one more reason for BD to just be honest about things), so until that happens it will be a bit awkward, but we can certainly be civil, mutually respectful, and work towards a healthy relationship. If anything, I expect BD's maladroit handling of domestic affairs to be more likely to damage things than SM.
As for my mother being my safe place... No, god no. There was a time I barely trusted her at all. I won't get into everything here, but it's not correct at all to think she's my safe place. This is an isolated situation, or perhaps more cynically, is a response to the divorce situation to buy allegiance. No idea. I was definitely closer to my dad during my teens (I was one of the few teens who thinks their father is pretty cool), but was generally pretty independent. Ironically, this could be the reason why I'm so upset by this decision--I wasn't independent for this decision and it bit me in the butt. Dad as provider? Naw, BM had the purse strings. Kinda hard for BD to be the provider when BM is the one who controls the resources.
@hypovic - I didn't say divorce changes nothing financially, and I understand that it had an impact on both parents' financial situations. I see that there are ways that I could have created the impression that I thought divorce changed nothing. I did say that my dad's living standards did not decline, but I did also acknowledge the other ways that the divorce could have impacted him. My point is that the divorce, though it affected him financially, did not have the huge effect he claims justifies his decision. I've been told salary information and the divorce settlement information, including alimony, child support and legal fees.
I'm not including SM's financial info in my considerations. I indicated that SM's side should not be touched nor looked at with covetous eyes. Most of the information I gave about SM was in response to other questions or concerns, which might have created an inference that I was including her in my personal assessments. But I wasn't.
I also don't understand where I said that I had any insights. I have a perspective, to be sure, but I'm here asking questions to get insights from "the other side" so to speak and get a broader perspective. My second post was merely referring to those insights that other people provided me. Those insights varied, but I took them at face value when I asked my follow-up questions or provided additional information. That's not to say that I adopted them and ignored the others. I didn't have any follow-up questions for your insights because they were pretty no-nonsense and understandable--I should quit my b!tchin, be thankful for what I got, and get to work. I get what you're saying; I just wanted to follow up with some of the other people, too.
Only reason I bring these things up is because I feel a bit misread and I'd like clear it up. Please understand, I am honestly trying to be a counter-example in a world full of asshole skids (no pun intended). With your help, I may beat the long odds for members of my generation.
Well, I think I have pretty much exhausted my thoughts on this, but if anybody has anything to add, I'll be reading. It was certainly eye-opening, but I think I understand things better now. Thanks again for your perspectives, and I wish you all the best of happiness and health.
With a grain of salt, because
With a grain of salt, because I am here, too:
Don't get all of your information from this site. People come to sites like this when they are near the ends of their ropes. A lot of these are crazy edge cases here.
I was sympathetic to your situation, then I read this:
"My point is that the divorce, though it affected him financially, did not have the huge effect he claims justifies his decision. I've been told salary information and the divorce settlement information, including alimony, child support and legal fees."
Honey, you have no idea what you're talking about. I assume you were told these numbers by your mom. Just stay out of your parents finances. Unless your Dad has extra hundreds of thousands laying around (I am guessing your family is upper middle class, not sure why I think that), the divorce absolutely did affect him financially. And it probably affected your mom, too. There is just no way to support two households in the same manner as before when there was just one. It's possible that StepMom is the one enabling their lifestyle if your dad is broke from the divorce. But it's not stepmom's job to send you to college. And it's not her job to make your dad do anything-- what he does or does not do comes down to his shoulders.
Right now, I am providing the lifestyle (such as it is) for me and my husband while he deal with the crushing financial weight of ex wife 3 children lawyers. I have my own job, and this gives my husband a better lifestyle than he can afford. So just because it looks like he's doing fine, it does not mean he is.
I once found a copy of my mom's paystub and was all SHE MAKES SO MUCH MONEY WHY CAN'T SHE PAY FOR MY SCHOOL LIKE SHE PROMISED. Of course, the paystub is just one part of the picture. Do you have siblings? How is their education to be paid for?