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First post, need advice re: boundaries

blendin's picture

Hi, all, I'm hoping for some perspective here. I'm engaged to a divorced man with two children (5 and 8). He has equal custody with his ex wife. I will be moving in with him in five weeks, and we have been taking steps to grow as a family. His ex wife calls the children daily when they are not in her care. I would not have issue with this except that it is always at bedtime or dinner time. Question one: am I wrong to think that there should be a designated time to call? Like before dinner, after the kids are home from daycare?

Issue two: his ex wife attends all activities whether it's her day or not. I am fine with this, but she will also sit with my fiancé (after having e-mailed him all day no less). This seems to really confuse his five year old, who just yesterday told her "kiss daddy and then you're married," which resulted in her kissing him on the cheek. This also seems to confuse other parents, as his ex wife simply hasn't told anyone in their social circle they're divorced. It's almost as if she's pretending they aren't. She is the one who asked for a divorce, and I don't think this is motivated by her wanting him back, just to be clear. So, question two: am I overreacting to this?

TASHA1983's picture

It is typical fucked up female behavior...even though she wanted the divorce and proabaly doesnt want him she doesnt want YOU to have him and be married to him either. This is ALL about getting to you and showing you up etc. Plain and simple.

MarriedaBallessWonder's picture

That woman is going to become your worst nightmare if your FDH doesn't set proper boundaries. The kid is going to resent you too and act out accordingly.

I would suggest (pre) marriage counseling. If your H doesn't put your first and be firm about it, the Ex will wreck havoc on your relationship.

I know, I have been living it for 7 years. My H always said they had a good relationship for the kids, but really it was her fucked up way of keeping her thumb on him and controlling OUR marriage. She initiated the divorce too.

Good luck my dear.

TASHA1983's picture

That is definitely true! My BF's XW was beyond controlling when they were married. She was also far beyond a piece of work! But now I am in control of the texts that come from her soooo the bitch gets put in her fucking place, like God intended, and my BF puts US first and he doesnt give two shits what bm or skid think/want!!!

She no longer has ANY control over my BF or anything to do with us whatsoever...because my BF's "Give a damn is BUSTED"!!!

Choke on that skid & bm }:)

blendin's picture

True. She is very big on appearances. To the point that she wanted to wait four months to tell the kids they were getting a divorce, didn't want him telling mutual friends (her "closest" friend figured it out from a Facebook post. How do you ask for a divorce and never discuss your issues with a friend?!), didn't want him discussing her infidelity with his personal friends, etc. I gathered she was thrilled he'd moved on but now I'm wondering why she wants to play wife to a man who supposedly made her so miserable? She can't have it both ways. I am trying to deal with her constant intrusions but I've had enough. I feel like I'm being set up. As in, then she can tell the kids "see, I tried to work it out but your evil stepmother came along."

blendin's picture

As far as the kiss on the cheek went, he did address it with her and her response was "oh I wanted him to see we get along," which he put an end to. He also explained to his son that people don't kiss and get back together.

As far as the rest of it, he agrees that it's not okay and has tried numerous things to get it to stop (addressing it with her, not answering the phone, moving away from her at games and other events). She always finds a way. He and I see eye to eye about what's appropriate and what isn't. We're having a world of trouble getting her on board. She can call daily if she likes, I'd just like a time designated. She can go to games and whatever else she likes, but find her own friends to sit with. Business matters should be handled at a designated time. Any restriction we use, she either ignores or turns it around to make us look like monsters.

TASHA1983's picture

You and DH need to be consistent and stand your ground with this troll!!! Don't let her guilt trips and her using of the children to do her bidding get to you...KEEP REMINDING YOURSELF that these are all part of her game and tactics...she is the one hurting the children not you or DH..just keep reminding yourself that!!!

blendin's picture

Thanks. I guess I had hoped that someone other than me and future DH would see that her behavior is hurting the kids more than it's hurting anyone else. She's very good at coming across like she's just trying to be a good mom when really, it's manipulative and underhanded. Future DH and I are out of ideas other than to ignore what we can. But, when she's showing up at events and acting like the wife in front of everyone and the kids, it's not helping anyone and it's hard to ignore a five year old trying to make sense of it.

amber3902's picture

"he did address it with her and her response was "oh I wanted him to see we get along," which he put an end to"
Um no. BEFORE SHE LEANS OVER TO KISS HIM HE SHOULD HAVE STOPPED HER.

If your DH is not answering the phone, and is moving away from her at games how is it that BM is finding a way around this?

Sure, she can ignore your restrictions, but if you don't answer the phone, there's nothing she can do to "get around it". Only answer the phone at the time designated. So what she tries to make you look like monsters. Your house, your rules. DH needs to put his foot down.

And Geesh, how many extra-curricular activities do the kids have that she has to email every week? And fund raising is not an extra-curricular activity. In my divorce decree it was decided that whomever enrolls the kid is responsible for paying for it.

blendin's picture

He was facing forward and she just leaned over, it wasn't as if he was leaning in for it. It's really not the focus here.

Daughter is in soccer. Son has swim lessons and a Gymboree type thing. Per their divorce agreement and their custody arrangement, they have to agree on the activity and split the cost. I understand that isn't the arrangement every divorced person has, but that's the arrangement here. It's the school functions or schedule changes she emails about. He has explained that if the school function (picnic, whatever) takes place on her day, it's her call and vice versa and doesn't respond. She finds something that happens on his day and he responds that he has the information, end of conversation. Fund raising for school or other things is an extracurricular activity when the fund raiser involves a child having to be at a specific location at a specific time. Perhaps I should have said obligation or social commitment?

It's easy to say "so what?" but part of step parenting is realizing that what's best for the child may not be what's convenient for you. I'm not about to have two children on my hands who hate me for reasons I didn't perpetuate, and that doesn't make for a healthy dynamic. Simply because their mother chooses to act like she does doesn't mean I get to be an asshole.

amber3902's picture

Thanks for explaining more. After hearing the additional information you've given it sounds like DH is doing pretty much everything he can do.

I don't know if there's anything more you or DH can do - other than what I said below about making sure you and DH don't let the kids make you feel guilty and letting them know when it's BM fault that they've missed out on something. Pls see my post further down.

Orange County Ca's picture

Please don't marry a guy with children. This woman and children will be a part of the rest of your life. A BIG part of it for well more than a decade. How old will you be before this ends? If you think she's acting out now just wait until you two are married. Like someone said she doesn't want him as a husband but she wants him to pine away for her the rest of his life.

When that doesn't happen all hell breaks lose. "Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned / Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned.". (1697) by William Congreve (1670-1729)

Surely you can find one of the millions of men who exist in the world that do not yet have children? Why take on this unnecessary burden? Spend a half day reading through the Posts in this Forum to get an idea of what's in store for you.

Please don't marry this guy.

blendin's picture

I'm completely aware that she and the children will be part of my life for the rest of my life. I gave it an enormous amount of thought before dating this man to begin with. At this point, his children are already a part of my life and a responsibility I've accepted and I understand that it comes with strings (including his ex wife). She can conduct herself as she likes, we can all only control our own behavior. I didn't meet his children until I gave it all considerable thought. I was also previously married to a man with children, and have remained very close to his children as well as their mother. My ex husband respects the boundaries that have been set, and he and I manage our relationship where the children are concerned amicably and with respect, so I know it's possible. I'm willing to admit it's likely this woman will get much worse, but again, I can't control her, I can only control my reaction to her.
Marrying this man isn't some act of desperation on my part. I dated enough frogs, both with and without children, to know that the man I'm marrying has the qualities I want in a partner.

blendin's picture

Agreed that the boundaries have to come from future DH, and he has tried to set them. We present a united front where this is concerned. In reaction to the kiss on the cheek, he told her to drop the charade and that they aren't friends. His exact words to her once were "we have to co-parent, that does not mean I am your friend." They definitely aren't friends where he's concerned. He is open about all communication from her and interaction with her. I'm sure it wasn't easy to tell me she smooched him, but he told me anyhow. I am sure she feels threatened by me, though I haven't provoked it. He will take daughter to soccer practice when it's his turn to, she will show up under the guise of being the best mom ever, plunk herself down next to him. At which point he will bring son to the playground to avoid her, as an example.
I completely agree that not telling her friends about the divorce is odd. She told her family "we decided to get a divorce, we can't work it out." she told him he shouldn't tell his family about her infidelity (which he did tell them about- not his secret to keep), and as far as the friends go, he told their close mutual friends and his own friends himself.

Jsmom's picture

He needs to set boundaries. All communication via email and only if it is about the kids. He has to do this. She is going to get worse. A lot worse...

I would hang all over him at these functions so everyone knows and she will back off. But, then I am a bitch...

blendin's picture

So far, all communication is only regarding the kids and finances as Rey pertain to the kids (they each pay half for extra curricular activities), she just can't ever lump it all into one e-mail as in "swim lessons start Sunday and I'm taking son, right? Oh, and the fundraiser for daughter is due on the 3rd. Also gymnastics is thirty dollars and if you pay for that and I pay for swimming we're even" all at once even when she has the information all at once. Future DH is proposing handling all business matters on Thursdays via e-mail, at a designated time. Other issues that come up will have to be handled the following week, other than an emergency.

You're not alone in being a bitch lol. I signed up for the PTA, and made it a point to introduce myself as future DH's fiancée as in "hi, I'm blendin, John doe's fiancée, son and daughter's soon to be step mom, so nice to meet you.". He and I routinely hold hands. I remind myself I'm really not threatened by her (she dug her own grave where the marriage was concerned), and if she's so threatened by me then damn, I must be important.

New second wife-step-mom's picture

IMHO, the reason BM is acting this way is because your FDH has not ENFORCED any boundaries with her!

You can talk until you are blue in the face to these women but until you show them it is just wasting your breath!

He tells her this, he tells her that but he doesn't ENFORCE it to her.

A) His ex wife calls the children daily when they are not in her care.

^^^ Let BM know from now on you can call the kids at this time (5 pm for instance) any other time DO NOT answer the phone.

Dirol she will also sit with my fiancé

^^^ When BM sets down your fiance should get up and say "Cone on Blendin, let's set over here!" If you do that enough she'll eventually quit embarrasing herself by setting there.

C) after having e-mailed him all day no less

^^^ Why is she email him all day and why does he allow it. Delete that account or block her and set one up in both of your names and only answer if concerning children. Even at those ages there shouldn't be something all day long that needs your FDH's attention. YOU need to talk to him about this now!!!

D) seems to really confuse his five year old,

^^^ I am sure the children are confused. MOmmy and Daddy are chummy, chummy and they love each other. See cause Daddy lets Mommy kiss him! :sick:

E) confuse other parents,

^^^ Of course, everyone is confused BM is acting like nothing happened and they are still one big happy family and your FDH is going along with it. :jawdrop:

F) She always finds a way.

^^^ She WILL always find a way until you and your FDH put up some major ROAD BLOCKS!

ARE you overreacting??? NO, not at all if you want to live the rest of your life this way!

If you don't want this to be the norm for the rest of your life you better either RUN or start getting this settled with your FDH NOW!!!

blendin's picture

Thank you!! I did state that he doesn't answer the phone. This results in children screaming that mommy's calling!!! We want to talk to mommy!!! We inform the children they can call back when we aren't in the middle of dinner. So even though the calls don't get her anywhere, she persists. So as far as that goes, I think we'll have to just unplug the phone during dinner and at bedtime and that's that. I don't want to be some monster who keeps them from their mom.

He does move seats or take his son to the playground and then is met with his daughter being disappointed that he missed this or that during her game because he was doing the avoid mom shuffle.

She emails him about child related things. They have an agreement per their divorce that any extracurricular (other than those thattake place only on one parent's night) has to be agreed upon. So it's "we should sign son up for swim lessons, there's a school picnic on your night, blah blah). He waits a day or two to answer. Then she'll e-mail that son had trouble sleeping or daughter has a cough the next day. The thing with her is she's used to managing the social calendar so she thinks she still does. If he doesn't answer her, then she starts withholding information at her end. Ultimately the kids suffer. The last time she pulled that stunt, one of them missed a birthday party that fell on future DH's weekend because she didn't bother to pass along the invite. Daughter was obviously upset about missing the party.

I'm not sure where the idea that future DH goes along with her charade. He introduces me to other parents as his fiancée, he moves away from her when she shows up at things, I'm not sure what more be can do other than sky write it. Against her wishes, he emailed her family and told them "hey if the kids are blabbing about blendin, this is who she is."

He spoke with her yesterday and today she tells the kids "oh I won't call tonight, it bothers blendin." Future DH corrected her and said "you're welcome to call at designated times. I'd prefer you didn't call at all during the week but blendin was willing to understand that speaking to you is important to the kids, but if you've decided not to call at all we'll gladly respect that."

WTHDISUF's picture

It seems the BM is threatened by your pending move and marriage. When that happens, she won't be able to hide the truth if everyone realizes HE has moved on and is about to remarry. Her response is to try to keep that image going as long as she can by putting on this front. She is confusing her children and making a fool of herself.

You and FDH need to discuss together what the expectations are and boundaries in your new family structure. Then HE needs to present them to her by himself so that she's made aware that her actions won't be tolerated.

On a side note * When my daughter's Father (we weren't married) started dating his now wife, I had no issues with her. His Family did--they were still very much hung up on things working out between he and I so they kind of shunned her. But I thought that was unfair so I tried to make sure she was comfortable with me & that I didn't share his families thoughts. We didn't have custody agreements or child support stuff-we talked it all out ourselves and it worked for us. Yes, I was at every activity my daughter had and so was she. When they ultimately married and had kids, we were still a "group" and I'd even babysit those kids too as they were my daughters half-siblings. We did some holiday half-days together until she was older. We went on a few 'separate but together' vacations as well. I was not a threat though and everything was respectable and transparent. I didn't interfere with their lives. They didn't interfere with mine.

Now that I'm a Stepmom, I understand that what he and I had with our daughter was very rare. Lol. Why oh Why hasn't Fate paid me back by giving me an easy BM to work with?? LOL

blendin's picture

Very rare! But as I posted earlier, I'm also very lucky that my ex husband and I have a respectful relationship where I can still be close to his kids without him being a controlling jealous jerk. My ex husband's new girlfriend isn't a hit with his family but she managed that on her own. I had hoped that in this case we could all be adults and have respect and not resort to blocking phone calls or e mails or having to move seats every five minutes at events. I was sadly wrong.

Orange County Ca's picture

I have no doubt this guy is great. But his wife dumped him for a reason.

I do wish you the best of luck and your quest to turn this into a family.

Do yourself a favor and do not have children of your own for at least a year. This Forum is riddled with women, just like yourself, who thought they could solidify a family by bring a child into the mix only to find that they and the child were second class family and/or the product of his second divorce.

Maybe you're not starry eyed but don't take a chance. No children until you're absolutely positive this is a workable situation and that will take a minimum of one year.

Good luck.

blendin's picture

Thank you. We aren't planning on children of our own for a long time, if ever. That might not even be a possibility or us.

As Future DH put it, he and his ex-wife are both 100% responsible for 50% of the breakdown. He took a long time after her infidelity and tried to work things out. Then he found out she never ended the affair. He still isn't blaming her, because you're right- everyone who's single is single for a reason. He took a lot of time post divorce to examine those reasons.

Definitely not starry eyed. At 32 with one divorce behind me, I'm not gunning for a situation that lands me with a second one. I do think your advice to wait on children and tread cautiously is wise and I appreciate it and agree.

We dated for almost a year before I met his kids. Having previously married a man with kids I know firsthand how gut wrenching it is when they're in your life and might not be anymore. We then dated a year after that before getting engaged. By the time we get married, we will have lived together for almost another year. Better to move slowly.

amber3902's picture

"This results in children screaming that mommy's calling!!! We want to talk to mommy!!!" It sounds like both you and DH are letting the kids make you feel guilty for setting boundaries. The kids won't die if they don't talk to their mommy until a certain time.

And DH does not need to know about every little cough or sniffle the kids have. DH should have communication with the school himself so he knows about any school related activities. A lot of school have websites with calendars that he can check himself. He can also email the kid's teachers himself.

It sucks that SD missed a birthday party but it was actually her mom's fault for not telling DH, not DH's.

It's BM's fault that DH missed part of his daughter's game because he had to move when she sat down next to him trying to pretend that they're still a family.

I know some may disagree with me, but next time it happens I'd be honest with the kids and let them know who exactly is to blame for missing part of their game or the birthday party and stop feeling guilty for what BM does. "Yes, it's too bad you missed that birthday party, sweetie. I wish YOUR MOTHER HAD TOLD ME."

When I was dating a man with a son his son's BM tried to deny him parenting time. So I told BF to tell his son that he was not going to be able to see him and to tell him WHY. BF's son went back to his mom and asked HER why she was not going to let him see his dad that night. That was the first and last time she pulled that stunt.

blendin's picture

It's not about guilt it's about disruption. We want the calls at designated times so as not to disrupt dinner. If the kids are going to scream, it's still being disrupted. From now on I believe we'll just unplug the phone. No ringing equals no screaming equals quiet dinner.

He has direct communication with the school independent of her. Doesn't stop her from feeling the need to regurgitate it no matter how much he ignores it. Same with the sneezes and coughs. When I did just that concerning the party, her next e mail was about how "this is what happens when we don't communicate." ugh. I do agree that putting it back on BM helps though. Eventually the kids will see a pattern.

blendin's picture

I am loving the idea of an e-mail that is checked once per week and accessible by both of us. If she doesn't know that I'm aware of all of her correspondence she will now. I don't have any fear that standing my ground will result in future DH going behind my back. He has been honest about things knowing they're going to piss me off. He values brutal honesty over most other things, and could have started lying ages ago of he just wanted things quiet. Her behavior bothers him as well, possibly more than it bothers me. We have already had a sit down discussion about what boundaries are necessary. We agree that whatever rule we set we don't get to complain about if it were reversed. For instance, we don't get to call at dinner time either (not that we do, just an example). I am definitely going to check that blog!

MarriedaBallessWonder's picture

Please, please, please go to family - marriage counselor BEFORE you get married. I wish I would have.

They will help you set the proper boundaries and tell you both how to do it.

It has made such a difference in just 5 short sessions for me. I could cry with relief.

I wish it were mandatory for all people getting married again who have kids and Exs involved.

It may cost you some money, but it will save you your sanity and your marriage.

amber3902's picture

"We agree that whatever rule we set we don't get to complain about if it were reversed. For instance, we don't get to call at dinner time either" Sounds like the two of you are on the same page, then. That's half the battle.

"I do agree that putting it back on BM helps though. Eventually the kids will see a pattern." Yeah, just keep putting it back on BM. You can't control what BM does, but you can control how it affects your life. Try to ignore her snarky little comments about not communicating, BLEH! Hopefully in time when she sees it doesn't get a rise out of you and DH she'll stop.

Good luck to you!!