what if he puts his daughters needs first all the time?
My partner and I bought a house 2 months ago and then his ex partner became very ill and his 13 yr old daughter, who previously he had every other weekend (and some other times in holidays etc) had to come live with us full time. At this point the two of us had lived together for a week and a half. We couldn't get on as it was so unexpected and also I work full time from home and that was impossible in the space we had (we bought what we could afford - a 2 bedroom house with the 2nd room my study in the week and her bedroom on weekends). So he and SD went to live at her mums place (nearer her school too and with her cat) and I stayed here. It is now 5 weeks later and still in same situ. We have been arguing as, although I have now come to terms with the situ and want us to all live together here, I don't want to do so until I know that my life won't just be overrun by their relationship as it feels to me that there is no space in their relationship for me. Yes I guess I was stupid to buy a house with him but I could deal with it every other weekend. Basically it seems - for whatever reason, maybe some guilt, his life revolves totally round her - making her breakfast, running her bath, sometimes washing her hair, and she is nearly 14! She seems happy to spend all her time with her dad and vice versa but this would drive me crazy! Surely she should be more independent at this age? before we can all move into together I want to feel reassured her needs won't always come first. During this period of separation I have suggested to him can she go have a weekend with her grandparents or with a friend so we get some time together alone. This is met with angry responses like 'you're asking me to send her away', 'asking me to abandon my daughter' etc etc. Then we end up in a massive row and I feel like I am way down the line of importance. Is it reasonable if we do all move in together that one night a week we should get to ourselves to go out or something? His previous relationship with BM was v bad for as long as SD can remember so she has no experience of her parents going out for a night together EVER. Therefore she is used to be included in everything and everyone's focus of attention. And that is how she wants it. He agreed we could have one night a week together, then added 'if SD is ok about it'. So I feel she is calling the shots. I should add I get on fine with her and she likes me and we all 3 do stuff together a lot. Am I being unreasonable or is he? I want us to all move in together but I am scared that I will lose control of everything and her needs will always come first. Help! Advice please.
Ohhh, Tally.
I completely remember that feeling that I was invisible and like there was no space for me.
There's so much I could say to respond, and I'm sure others will do it. So I will just say a couple of quick things, and then recommend a book that, I think, will really help you process and get clarity.
First, the ABSOLUTELY most important thing you can do is take this SUPER SLOWLY. Do not, repeat, do NOT, get any more involved with him in any long-term way (moving in with him full-time, getting engaged or married) until these issues are RESOLVED, to YOUR satisfaction. There are so many land mines in this kind of relationship, you need to go really slowly or you'll end up married and totally blown apart by them, asking yourself, "what happened?" So many women on this site have found themselves in that very situation. Remember and repeat to yourself this statistic: 60% of all remarriages end in divorce. If children are involved, the percentage rises to 63%.
Second, you need to sit down, many times, with your BF and talk through every single issue here. Do NOT hold back on the things that are bothering you. Don't question how you're feeling and let that make you stay silent on things that just feel wrong. Trust your gut. It sounds like your BF can't hear some of this without blowing up. That's not a good sign at all. If you meet with resistance from him when you tell him these problems and ask him to work with you to find solutions that work for BOTH of you, then please, RUN. NOW. Because every person on here will tell you, the situation will not get better, only worse, if your BF is not respectful of your needs and willing to make sure that you are 50% of the relationship.
Being in a situation where your SO has kids and you don't, it's really easy to let his side of the equation get all the weight and attention, and you just go along helping him live his life, instead of both of you creating a life together. Be very attuned to which one is happening in your relationship.
Listen to what the people on this site say. We've all been through a lot here, and believe me, we all recognize patterns and red flags, etc. that you just don't necessarily see if you haven't been through this before.
The boyfriend who ignores you when the kids are around -- this does not get any better. Because kids in our culture are soooo put on a pedestal, any woman in your situation who dares to say that she wants to have her relationship be a priority risks being seen as a monster. That whole "the kids should come first in his life" is the big lie that many of us get guilted into feeling that we have to believe. Don't let anyone give you that crap. Love for kids and love for a GF/spouse are totally different, and saying one comes "first" is a complete mistake. The reality is (and I think most or all on this site would say this), if your relationship is not made a priority by the BF, your relationship will fail. Period. Google "guilt parenting" and you'll learn a lot about why divorced dads, especially, do this.
Finally, please run out and buy the book Stepmonster. It's excellent and it will help you identify and understand a lot of the things that are happening to you. I suggest that you have your BF read it, too, or at least the parts you think are particularly important. If he resists or has a negative reaction to what he reads, run. He's not for you.
You are at a critical moment in your relationship. Please proceed with caution and seek out advice and support here. Collectively, we've been through it ALL. And for the record, my marriage/stepfamily is one that works, so I know it can be done and I'm not a huge pessimist. But I am a realist, and my dear, it is hard, and so much is completely out of your control. Your BF is the key. If he steps up and starts making you a priority, then say a silent prayer of thanks. If not, please remember that love alone is not enough to make something this complicated work.
HUGS!
BB
- You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. (2Bloved)
Thanks so much for your
Thanks so much for your reply! That is really helpful. I guess I am so terrified of losing him and that is a bad position to be in. We are having couple counselling at the moment (only been once so far, next session this week) and I am really hoping that will help. But I am worried that he may be too resistant. The therapist (after I had voiced some of my concerns to do with not being willing to let other family members help out) did ask him why he had so much guilt, where that had come from, but he denied it. I guess we will talk about this again as it obviously was clear to the therapist - and to myself - that he does. On the plus side (are these any reassurance?!): Previously when BM was ok and had SD full time my partner had her 3 weekends a month initially and then he did drop this down to every other weekend (partly for my benefit - to prepare for us moving in together). So this is a good sign? Also he does tell her off for being moody etc when we've all been together.
I just wonder if it is this crisis situation that is making him over protective and put her first - BM is in hospital out of the blue (she had a fall in the night and SD found her and had to take her to hospital on her own - BM has Multiple Scerosis) and he feels overly responsible - and also he feels v guilty as this event has uncovered the fact that BM was much more ill than anyone was aware of and SD had been having to look after her (do shopping etc) and hadn't been looked after much herself in the past few months it seems. So I wonder if he is over-reacting to it because of this? Dont' want to make excuses for him but also don't want to sound too harsh.
ps belleboudeuse, you say
ps belleboudeuse, you say you started off feeling like this yourself but you have worked things out, that is great! Was your partner a guilt dad - did he recognise this? I am really terrified that I will bring this up in counselling and say that I have to be as much of a priority as SD is. If he refuses to acknowledge that - should I just be out of there? If he says that she doesn't come first, then that is good I guess
Yes, Tally
I did start out feeling like this. Like most of us here, I fell in love with a man, not a dad, and then discovered that a man with kids is very different from a man who's never been married before. There's not a road map for this situation, and most of us stumble into this dynamic and then start to realize that there's lots of stuff that feels "off". I think women so often are 1) terrified of losing the person they've fallen in love with and 2) just socialized to always question our emotions and feelings that we end up not speaking up when we should, and then down the road we realize that we've gotten ourselves into a huge mess because we didn't want to rock the boat and risk losing someone that seems so right for us.
Yes, we have worked things out. Here are the factors that I think allowed us to do this:
1) Before meeting DH, I had been through a nasty divorce with a complete a-hole. The whole thing left me so completely fed up with bullsh*t that I swore to myself I would never allow myself to let my needs be ignored again. So, when I started to experience a lot of the things you are with your BF, even though I felt like it would absolutely break my heart, I knew how bad a failed marriage could be, and I knew that was a million times worse than walking away from someone whose life I knew couldn't be melded with mine. SO, I sat my guy down, and very calmly, gently, but matter-of-factly, told him the things I said to you in my first reply. I told him that if I was not a priority in his life the way any wife should be, and if he didn't agree with me that the primary relationship in ANY family is the spousal relationship, then we weren't a good match, and I would wish him well and be on my way. And I meant it. I was prepared to walk away from that relationship at the end of that conversation (and he is the absolute love of my life).
2) My DH, luckily, is a man with an almost complete lack of the testosterone-driven male ego. He has the ability to listen without getting defensive. An incredible quality in anyone. And he loved me so much, and recognized so clearly that this relationship would never again be equaled in his life, that he HEARD me, and agreed that I deserved to be 50% of the relationship.
Without those two things, Tally, it would never have worked. As it was, DH and I had to have about 4 conversations about different aspects of our relationship within months 3 to 6 of our relationship. And he has ALWAYS heard me, and always changed when I told him it was necessary. To be clear, I haven't asked him to change frivolous things. I've always told him what I'm willing to compromise on (knowing in my heart that I should only compromise on the things that I TRULY can compromise on without it hurting me), and the things that he will just need to change.
My one overarching piece of advice about this: DO NOT bury your needs under self-doubt. Sit down and have a talk with yourself about what you need. Having a strong sense of yourself and being comfortable with expecting a place of respect and priority in your partner's life is really the only thing that will ever allow you to have a healthy relationship in the future, be it with this guy or someone else. Don't compromise that. It only leads to pain in the end.
BB
- You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. (2Bloved)
This is one major factor in my decision to divorce H
"To Thine Own Self Be True" William Shakesphere
Alot of members on here have walked thru the months of pain I've been in from a father who idolizes his daughter, and your post is ringing warning bells to me.
BB's post was excellent and well thought thru. She advised you to take it slow, not get engaged or married just yet, and I agree 110%.
I am now filing for divorce. And a father who so obviously considers his teenaged daughter the very center of the universe is a major reason.
I have sat and watched H treat SD18 as tho she is the ONLY important factor in his life. When she's here, she is required to do nothing-she is not expected to lift one maniucred finger to help with dishes after a meal, per H's demand that when she's here, it's HER down time.
I've watched him buy matching shoes (yeah, a 44 yr old man & his 17 y.o. daughter have matching shoes) because she threw a fit over a pair of shoes we bought her younger sister.
I've watched him sit down and CRADLE her in HIS LAP, as tho she is either an a) lover or a b) small child. I've listened to her referring to her as "babe" everytime he speaks to her.
I've watched him over draw the bank account 2 months in a row over her-and not for needs, but for her wants. Because, you see, the money she earns goes to clothes, tanning beds, and manicures. In fact, he just spent an amount equal to 2 weeks worth of my paycheck on her just 2 weeks ago.
She lives with her mother-so yes, she has one. Yet he expected me to address and mail her graduation announcements. She marches into MY home and treats me as tho I do not exist. She gets in the back seat of my jeep, leans forward, and sets the temperature control and radio/cd to her liking. As tho she's the only one in the vehicle. And he just allows it. If we all happened to go out to eat together, it was to a place of her choosing.
H is home for four days, at work (4 hours away) for 10. So I see him every other weekend. May, his first weekend off, was SD18's graduation. So he spent the day before graduation driving her 120 miles to get her wedding cake for graduation. The following day, it was her graduaiton at the Country Club, when we can barely make ends meet. For her May birthday, he told me to give him one of my diamond necklaces (from a prior relationship). At the same time he told me, it would be from him only because she hates me and would throw it away if she knew it was mine.
So the second time home, in May, he took her and SD14 to his family reunion, 2 hours away. In my vehicle. I, of course, did not go. He had his choice between SD18 & me. He chose her.
Then came H's first weekend home in June. We started building a fence. I work Mon-Friday. Sat. we worked on the fence all morning...until she called. Then suddenly he had to run to her (BM lives 30 min. away). We were supposed to go to the show that nite. He called later and said we wouldn't make it to the show, as he was busy with SD18.
The following weekend, SD14 & SD18 went to H's work apartment. He took them skating Frid. nite. He took them shopping Sat. He took them to the amusement parks Sunday.
Do you see the picture? Out of two months, I couldn't even be taken to one lousy movie. Not taken anywhere, for any reason. But Sd18, his precious princess, is whisked off at her hearts desire.
You said he runs her bath water for her. You said he shampoos her hair. He said she would have to approve of a night a week for the two of you.
I hope my horrible experience can be a warning for you. My 14 month marriage, to a man I dated for over a decade, is now over.
we had a long talk and feeling better...
thanks for all your comments, this forum is great. I feel a bit better as my BF and I had a talk and he told me that from his opinion both myself and SD are of equal importance to him. He is willing that if we all live together we have one night a week where we go out together alone without SD and also agreed that other family members can have her to stay one weekend a month so we get that time together alone. I feel quite happy that he is willing to do all this and he assures me that our relationship really is as important to him and that he wants to encourage SD to be more independent and hopes I can help with this and be a good role model for her (her BM is/was not an independent woman and also did not have her own life, job, social life as I do). Does this sound more promising? I am very nervous about it but I think he knows I will not take any s**t and if he makes these promises then backs out of them I will not hang about.
ps
He also says he only runs her bath sometimes because it is easier than waiting for her to get it together to do it herself... I think this is an issue we will have to work on! How do you encourage a child to take initiative and decide to take her own bath? My approach is just leave her and eventually she'll realise she doesn't want to go to school all stinky and will make the choice herself..... but I am not a parent maybe this is wrong?!
Yeah, this is crap.
How can you help her be more independent? By telling your BF that he is her FATHER, and that if she needs to take a bath and she drags her feet, then he needs to teach her that when she is told to do something, she will do it the first time she's asked. If she needs to be told a second time, she is grounded for a week. He needs to grow a pair. Google "guilt parenting." Those excuses are classic.
BB
- You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. (2Bloved)
So, I'm afraid do I-see red flags..
"To Thine Own Self Be True" William Shakesphere
So he runs her bath because...it's easier. What about washing her hair?.
" Basically it seems - for whatever reason, maybe some guilt, his life revolves totally round her
I wish you luck.
Tally
So, I'm going to be a little blunt. I'm sorry if I offend. But I'm saying this because frankly, I'm scared to death for you.
You say that your BF and you talked and he's willing to make changes if you move in together. (And you've seen the responses you got from others about that.) You ask if that seems more positive. Well:
I will repeat what I said in my first response: DO NOT MAKE ANY MOVES FORWARD WITH THIS MAN UNTIL THINGS IMPROVE TO YOUR COMPLETE SATISFACTION. You are saying that your BF says if you move in together he's willing to do a couple of things. MOVING IN WITH HIM IS MOVING FORWARD WITH THE RELATIONSHIP!!!! DON'T DO IT!!!!!
Look, someone up there said "talk is cheap." And frankly, they're right. Saying you guys can have one night a week and saying you are as important as his daughter doesn't mean he will really change much. This site is filled with women (Bewitched above, for example) who have gotten tons of promises from their BFs -- UNTIL THEY MOVE IN, or get married, or something -- and then as soon as the woman is "hooked" things revert to whatever the man wants to do. Your BF says things will change. So. Stay right where you are, don't move in together (I know you have a house together, which sucks), and wait. Wait to see if things REALLY change. In 6 months, you'll have a pretty good idea of whether you guys REALLY get a night a week without her, and whether the daughter is REALLY taken care of sometimes by relatives, and whether you're REALLY as important as she is. In the meantime, you'll want to have other conversations about other issues that will likely come up.
Above all, please be very careful not to let your heart lead you down the Florence Nightengale path. You say that the BM has MS, which is awful. But many women in your situation would feel so much sympathy for their BF and his daughter in that situation that they would start offering to help out a lot, pick up the slack, chip in for the good of everyone. Now, it's not that I want to come off like a selfish jerk. But please be very careful not to just jump in to be the gopher/maid/babysitter or whatever. Like I said above, you need to worry about YOUR needs, because women who fall in love with men who have children are at great risk of losing their lives to the weight of the family constellation that consists of BM, your boyfriend, and their kid/s. If you jump in and help out whenever you see a need so that your BF will think you're a great woman, then you will probably put all your needs and your life on hold, and in a year, you'll find that you're just helping him live his life, and that the two of you aren't a COUPLE, he and his daughter are the couple, with you as maid and BM as matriarch.
Please, please, be careful, and take every single thing he says about being willing to change with a huge grain of salt. Actions, honey, actions. Not words. Please.
BB
- You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. (2Bloved)
thanks
Yes I am definitely listening. I totally appreciate that this is a whole unknown to me and you guys have been through it. I also know I am so in love with this guy I am willing to want to believe it will all be ok and I also know it is easy to say things. I do see the wisdom in testing his words first.
Nicely said, StepAside.
And I would add, your DH is very comfortable with it being like this. You, however, see that this child needs to be parented. If you step in and start trying to change this yourself, you will: 1) do ALL the work of trying to teach this kid to be a responsible person; 2) be blamed and hated by the daughter, and eventually, your BF for doing it; 3) resent to high heaven that you are now not only the maid and the babysitter, but also cast as the evil monster who has to do 90% of the work only to be hated by everyone for doing it.
Encouraging him to do it, without actively doing it yourself except to back him up, is the ONLY way. Plus, it goes back to what I said at first about not getting any more deeply involved. He said he wants you to "help" teach her to be independent. What he is really saying is, "You do it." (See what has been said by StepAside about how parenting takes work and a lot of dads just aren't into it and would rather just say yes all the time.) Remember: "helping" him with her is getting more involved. HE needs to do it so that YOU can see whether he's worthy of YOU.
BB
- You are not second best, you are not second class. Do not ever let anyone make you feel that way. (2Bloved)