Anyone heard of Malicious Mother Syndrome?

Forums:

I haven't been on here that long and wasn't sure if this had been discussed. I'm posting the definition in here and also the link for the actual paper it's in. Here's the kicker...this is prevalent enough that this syndrome is posted all over the place online, but not a big enough issue that anyone's done the research that would make this a truly useful diagnosis for court proceedings. I hope I'm still around when these vindictive ladies (term used very loosely)are no longer able to manipulate the court system this way. Here it is:

The present section provides a beginning definition of the Divorce Related Malicious Mother Syndrome, which has been derived from clinical and legal cases. As in all initial proposals, it is anticipated that future research will lead to greater refinement in the taxonomic criteria. The proposed definition encompasses four major criteria, as follows:

A mother who unjustifiably punishes her divorcing or divorced husband by:

Attempting to alienate their mutual child(ren) from the father
Involving others in malicious actions against the father
Engaging in excessive litigation

The mother specifically attempts to deny her child(ren):

Regular uninterrupted visitation with the father
Uninhibited telephone access to the father
paternal participation in the child(ren)'s school life and extra-curricular activities

Tile pattern is pervasive and includes malicious acts towards the husband including:

Lying to the children
Lying to others
Violations of law

The disorder is not specifically due to another mental disorder although a separate mental disorder may co-exist.

And here's the link http://www.fact.on.ca/Info/pas/turkat95.htm
Anyone else who knows an ex who fits the bill?

Sure here is one example.

Regular uninterrupted visitation with the father
Church activities (that have nothing to do with living a good Christian life or honoring their father) are over-scheduled so the father never gets a full weekend with them. Mother actually found a judge to order their father to take children to their step-father's chuch on the father's weekend.
Attempting to alienate their mutual child(ren) from the father
Tells children that father is only a biological attachment and
rewards children for having disdain for him. Tells children if they want to spend entire weeken at a friends house they don't have to visit their father. Teenagers love that of course and since the mother really doesn't want time with them thats a great solution for her weekends.
Involving others in malicious actions against the father
When children were younger their mother wanted children out of her way while dating and pursuing a weathy attorney. After her marriage she launched a legal attack and lied to everyone around her about the father's behavior to get back custody. Now the children are old enough to be independent and function without her spending much time with them.
This mother has sharp con-artist skills and gets away with one lie after the other.

Violations of law
The court order is only something for the father to follow, she does as she pleases, when she pleases.

I'm Afraid You Don't Understand

A mothers bond is different then a fathers "typically" and when divorce takes place the kids will remain closest to the mother and grow up with her values or the ones they obtained from their environment. If the kids are teens or near their teens you cannot force them to see a father they don't want to see. Thats a age where they are active and love to be around their friends, so I found it a little unrealistic that you put all blame on the BM. If the children end up closest to a step dad then there's valid reasons, and sometimes the BD is in denial about the real circumstances or WHY bm and kids are trying to write him out of the picture. Also, it really makes a difference in the bm and childrens eyes if dad had an affair and how he left the family. That all being said, the children end up being closest to the ones that raise them and that is usually BM. Sometimes that alone breeds contempt, and are consequence of many divorces. I'm just saying too many blame the bm too much instead of themselves. JMO

'That all being said, the

'That all being said, the children end up being closest to the ones that raise them and that is usually BM'

Unfortunately, while it's more often than not the norm, it shouldn't always be the norm. In many cases it should be the birth father having physical custody, but the benefits of that are overlooked because of social stereotypes.

What

Its nothing to do with sterotypes, children are born and come out of the mother. They are naturally closer. Now when they get over 2 or 3 they can easily verbalize who they want to live with. Even at young ages they know who they are happiest with and who the nurturer is. If thats the father fine, but most often its the mother. Just The Facts

Yes, they come out of their

Yes, they come out of their mother, but giving birth does not automatically make you maternal, as we see from a lot of stories here. I see the trend of children being with their mothers more not because they are born from them but because the nurturing roles are reinforced by gender stereotypes, rather than a male or female's ability to nurture and feel simply because of their sex. Those roles are nurtured into them, but not always, and boys are capable being jsut as caring of their children as girls are.
If a woman stays home after pregnancy and is breastfeeding she more than likely is going to be with her child more than the working husband, but if that isn't the case then there's no gender reason for one to be a better parent than the other. Only socially instilled ones, which we shouldn't reinforce, that's part of the reason w hy there are so many deadbeat dads. They're raised in a culture that tells them that's normal and acceptable.
Actually, before woman had as many righs, if the man wanted custody, he got custody. They were his bloodline and the courts were biased for men before.
I'm getting too deep here and am not good at explaining these issues.

i disagree

I have watched my husband be the nurturer and the best father ever. My sd'd are not naturally closer to their BM because my husband always has taken care of them and financially provided for them- There is nothing more natural than a father loving his children - they came from him to you know. My husband has full custody and The facts are that more and more mothers aren;t taking care of their kids and more and more fathers are stepping up to the challenge and from what I see in my husband he is probably doing a better job than most birth mothers that have custody of their kids

my apologies...posted

my apologies...posted twice....obviously irritated!

sorry

sorry for irritating you- I should have chose my words more carefully-

That is a rather broad generalized statement to make!

My husband also had sole custody of his kids. However, the majority of primary care givers are still the mothers, statistically AND the majority of single parent families are headed by women. I appreciate that you husband may be doing a great job as a dad (your opinion is somewhat biased as mine would be about my spouse) but I don't think that it is fair to say that it is better than most birth mothers. That is information that is strictly an opinion based on no evidence at all and I am a mother, along with many others here who are excellent parents.

you are right

Better was probably the wrong word to choose and you are right about that. So I will revise that to just as good of a job as good birth mothers.

Thanks...much appreciated!

Take care.

I agree with tiff

My husband is exactly the same. We used to have major problems with the ex-wife - even when we moved countries she followed us and caused as much trouble as she could whispering into the kids' ears, but after a while the novelty wore off, and she went off back to the country she came from, leaving us to care for the kids entirely.

I have to say that the kids are WAAY closer to their father than their mother, as she's consistently unreliable.

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Trouble with a psychotic ex-wife? My Website

Birth Mom, alienation syndrone and custody

My husban'd ex tries to turn the kids against him at every turn she has succeeded with the 13 yr old boy, the other two seem to know she's lying yet they know way too much. The 13 yr old is bad enough when he comes over that his father will tell him he is not to come over again until he will go to couseling with his dad,period. I think it's best for all concerned when the kids is getting downright dangerous. He thinks the answer to all his problems is never coming over, his mom is the one not making him do a thing ( like homework or any type of cleaning ) so he is lazy and irresponsible, and thinks we are "mean" to make him do so much as wash his clothes or put them in a hamper, pick up his room, and do his homework. Any other chore gets $$ but he won't do them usually, just too lazy, then gets made when his sister or little brother get paid for chores and save up for things they want.
We have decided he is just too dangerous to have over, last time on the way to pick him up he hit his sister hard and attacked my husband when he wouldn't let him have his way and tried to hit me, too.
We just hope and pray he will actually eventually miss coming over and agree to counseling in the future, but as long as his mother poisons him against us and he believes it we can really do nothing, and he ruins the time for the other two kids who are both sweet and caring .
It is too bad the BM can't just let him have a decent relationship with his dad. She is the one who left the family and went back to an old boyfriend first, yet she acts like the one who got dumped, go figure ! She didn't work either now finally is doing some caregiver stuff a few days a week so at least she has started to have to work. Too bad she can't see the damage she is doing to her own son.

I hear you with the birth

I hear you with the birth father having physical custody. Our BM seems to have some sort of personality disorder, so much so that when the juvenile judge (in our girl's case...seeds do not fall far from bushes) absolutely refused to allow our girl access to her mother until the mother had some evalutions done and was getting with the program that our girl was in. A counslor, bless her, suggested visitation one time in a pre court meeting and it was like one of those waves you see at a sporting event, everyone threw their hands in the air and said an emphatic NO! We got legal custody of our girl and her twin brother after BM abandoned them. I am not at all surprised by the court's reactions and it was the case that every time BM got involved our girl was in some sort of trouble with the law. I have to say that our girl must own her part in the things she did too, she is currently serving two years in secure facility for a severely provoked act of simple battery on step relatives. It really, really, is a horrible thing that her mother was there and did/said absolutely nothing in our girl's defence. I know the people involved and I have seen and heard the stuff they do and they are drama kings and queens, not even Jerry Springer would entertain these folks!

When our girl does come home she'll be over 18, the plan was for her to be living on University campus after she completed the semester and pulled in decent grades. That can still happen, we will help her to get it all reinstated. I am often the evil step mother but deep down our girl knows I am on her side, we do have a bond and I set boundaries for her. I told her 'you can hate me now and love me later, or it can be the other way round if you choose it.' Our girl knows her dad and I have the interests of the kids as a priority, we are the ones who are here for them throughout it all. They get tough love too! It's been a hell of a roller coaster ride but we'll all make it.

That Egyptian denial

That Egyptian denial statement was priceless! Lol... I'm still laughing and that I appreciate since this can be and is a pretty serious subject.

Just to lighten up the mood a bit, I thought of an analogy of a lighthouse... and for this one let's say a very popular one that used to be in Egypt(like your joke)... the Lighthouse Of Alexandria. For those not familiar with it, you can read about it here: http://www.lighthouseinn-ct.com/lighthouse-history/lighthouse-of-alexandria.html. Dealing with step family many times comes down to being strong and standing up for ones self without trying to step on the toes of anyone else... and this has to be done under many different circumstances and environments. Lighthouses are quite similar in that at times it seems everything is against them; wind, rain, snow, waves from the sea, ships, earthquakes, etc... but the ones that are loved and cherished are the ones that stand up and don't crumb under all those elements. Dealing with step family can be the same way, but many times... at the end of the day things can work out well after the passing of time... no matter what we personally may go through.

I hope this isn't offensive to anyone, but as you can see in my name... I LOVE lighthouses so I try to make them related to the many different aspects of life.

Don't always assume the

Don't always assume the father left the family. In this case the mother left and later launched a legal attack with funds of her wealthy attorney husband to get custody. The kids love his money too! BM moved to another neighborhood and of course kids get to an age where they rather be with friends and forget BD, but alienation is a reality that should not be tolerated and its so bad for the kids rather it is the BD or BM doing it.

i am the father of a

I am the father of a beautiful 9 yr old daughter who is being manipulated by her narcissistic mother. I was found to be only a good enough father to see my daughter 8 days per month but good enough to pay $500.00. Odd that the second month after cs stated my ex wife is in a new Toyota SUV. I am regularly denied phone communication, ex wife took the home phone out so i have to go through her cell to talk to my daughter. I have received NO report cards or interim reports after numerous requests even though court ordered this. Doctor's apts have been canceled within 30 min of apt. and rescheduled for the next morning. I would find out and go the next morning only to find they were once again canceled. At this point I am on the brink of filing for bankruptcy. The court system in Livingston parish Louisiana is a disgrace. To put it bluntly , I place all the blame on my daughter's mother.

Alienated anonymous dad from 2/12...

You could be my husband, only add two more kids. He's been going through this for years. Sign up and become a member here, you will find lots of support on this issue. We're not the only ones experiencing this. My heart goes out to you.

~ Anne ~

Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice: Pull down your pants and slide on the ice! -M*A*S*H (Sidney Freedman to the OR staff on dealing with stress)

I suppose those situations do occur...

But the only two people that truly know what goes wrong in the relationship is the two people themselves and usually the story is very different. My husband's ex and ny ex left our spouses for very different reasons. I do find the person who does the leavning doesn't do as well as soon, in the literature. My own struggle was having a husband who had a bad head injury from a car accident...from a drunk driver who went through a stop sign without evening slowing down. My husband was left very different, very violent and unpredictbable. It was unsafe to stay will. That preceding in him leaving. Sometimes relationships just aren't meant to be.

Blame and Just getting on with it

I understand your point, my childrens Mother put me in jail for being in arrears for 6,000.00, then on top of that , she has filed seven restraining orders on me since we separated in 2004. My first mistake was listening to my pastor, who said that I should wait until her heart softens, well I waited and waited for 3 years without seeing my children because she had them on the restraining order part of the time, and when they weren't on the restraining order, I had to call their mothers phone to talk to them which was on the restraining order as well, and I was not to contact her by phone. So I could call my kids, but I couldn't because I would be arrested if I called my ex's phone number. "This all was because I said, "You're dead to me" all we have in common now are the kids...the day she told me to get out. Everyone knows that your dead to me means you do not exist anymore in someones mind. Ever since then she has made my life a living hell, even after she got married, she tried to adopt my kids out from under me. I finally got her back into court, 2 years 2 psych exams to make sure I am not a threat to anyone and 10 thousand dollars later I can finally see my kids again. But now they think I abandoned them.. think your ex is evil? Lets compare notes...

Take a new approach

I am the stepmother of 2 children and the mother is a raving .... I have been dealing with her and her non-sense for almost 9 years now. One thing I will admit is that women are master manipulators if they chose. So, let me suggest that you take necessary steps to remove yourself from as much of her crap as possible. It's sad to say that the court doesn't want to hear you "cry" about not getting report cards. I can hear them now.... "Awe poor baby" they could careless!! I suggest that with the report cards that you make arrangements with the school to get copies yourself. Any doctor appointments call ahead of time to make sure there are no changes or explain to the doctors office the situation, to some degree and have them call you in the event of a cancellation. I understand why you feel that it is all her fault, honestly. But if you already know that she's a complete jerk than there is no reason that you should expect anything but ruthless behavior from her. Whatever you can do to insure you get what you want or need without her help then do it. I wouldn't ask about it, talk about it or let her know that you are getting or have gotten it. What I am sure about is that she knows that it makes you upset and that she is being put in a position of power over your emotions, so stop letting her! There is nothing or little that you may be able to do through court but the rest is in your control. Maybe look at it like this. It will piss her off to no end when she realizes that you don't need her and can get what you need on your own. So for the things that are in your control take control and stop blaming her for being the jerk that she is. Shame shame for expecting anything different from her. Good luck to you!

On that happy note...I'm

On that happy note...I'm going to bed. That's good advice for my situation too. I think I'll go sleep on it.

No kidding "Shame shame for expecting anything different from her." That's really good.

Children need BOTH parents

I was shocked by the danger of 'Brandy's' comments. For any parent, Dad or Mom, to not understand and encourage the importance of a solid relationship with the biological Dad (or Mom if role reversed) is just plain wrong**. Hopefully one day will be as enforced as child support payments. (**obviously if there is danger of physical or emotional abuse at other home that is a caveat - but Brandy did not speak of that)

I could 'see' by Brandy's comments that she is 'justifying' her own feelings toward Fathers or whatever caused her divorce. Whenever one hears or reads 'the children should be able to choose if they don't want to see the other parent'...or 'friends are more important than Dad' are looking for excuses to alienate the kids from Dad, know there is MALICE and MANIPULATION taking place. Children in a home where they 'know Mom doesn't like Dad' will comply with Mom's spirit to survive emotionally. Children across America are being damaged by attitudes like this. CHILDREN NEED BOTH PARENTS...and both parents should encourage fully equal connection to the other parent.
We are conducting RESEARCH to help Children of Divorce...as we have lived through it. We are telling it like it is! Brandy...you are not helping your kids. They will end up as adults with relationship issues. Respond to surveys at ...
http://generationcd.blogspot.com

You need a reality ck Hope

Thats bs because I have seen situations where the child should have very minimal contact with the other parent because of lifestyle choices, and are basically lousey parents who shouldn't have had kids. Too often the children as they become older make up their mind about the ncp, Alec Baldwins daughter comes to mind. She is 12 and many like her know who the nurturing parent is and isn't. There are dad's like Darren Mack who live deviant lifestyles and are clearly unstable that should have had supervised visitation. Sometimes the bio parent is plain and simple unfit, and the other parent has to make due and often finds a spouse or partner to coparent. That can be mom or dad for sure. But statistics point to the mother more often.

This is so not true

I respectfully disagree. The courts favor mothers over fathers because of outdated and sexist mores based on 1950's values. Fathers have never been more involved in their kids lives than now and as evidenced by all of our posts and blogs and due to outmoded legal tendencies, mothers often obtain residential custody, even when the father does his best to get the same or even just equal custody. My skids are actually more closely bonded to their dad (and I know of many other situations like ours) and frequently say that they want to live with us, not their mom. Over half of my friends grew up in blended families and I would say that over half feel way more close to their fathers than their mothers. We don't live in the fifties anymore and things have changed. Unfortunately, the legal system is still catching up, although dads have made great progress in the past couple of decades. My step-kids are fully aware of what happened with their mom, their dad and me and it has had no impact on how close they are with their dad. They actually tend to come to me with their personal problems and my older SS just recently told me that he appreciates me because i'm "not crazy like mom." He told me that he hopes his mom gets married soon because he is tired of living alone with her and he said it's scary that she cries all the time. She has no values and has lied in front of and to my step-kids. They have no respect for her and it shows. They are dramatically different around their mom. With my husband and I, they have learned that they have to be polite and respect other people and that lying is never allowed. Originally my ss11 defended himself when caught in a lie, by saying, "my mom lies, so why can't I?" Are these the kinds of values you are talking about? It's sexist bull to say that mothers have innate value systems that are superior to fathers'. It's simply not true. In many cases, such as mine, my step-kids actually feel safer and happier when they are with us because we are actually mature adults that act like adults. The kids mother turns to her five year old and eleven year old sons for emotional support, which is way, way out of their league. After she got dumped by her last "boyfriend" of two weeks, she sobbed for five hours and kept my ss11 up until 2:00am telling him about her love life trauma. My SS11 found out about sex because he found a used condom on his bathroom floor at his mom's house. This woman is not emotionally, physically or socially stable and she sets no rules or boundaries for her kids or provides them with any kind of secure environment. Kids deserve to be kids while they can, they should never take the place of a girlfriend or a counselor. My step-sons live over half the time with their biological mother because the courts in our state automatically favor mothers. She isn't fit to watch a plant let alone children, yet because of inherent sexism and outdated tradition, my husband's children don't get to live primarily in a stable home where they can be kids and know that mature adults are taking care of them and modeling good values.

In many cases, the father can provide a far better home for his children, with two adults in the home, yet the kids are stuck living with their unstable, mentally shaky mothers who stay single because they are incapable of maintaining a healthy relationship. There are exceptions to both cases, but it is way out of line to automatically assume that one parent is better suited that the other purely based on gender. Not to attack single moms, but there is a reason that the secondary relationship happened and the Bio-mom is so often left alone. The dads find a woman that they can love and respect and WANT to be with and obviously the step-moms want to be with the dads for their redeeming qualities. These are two people who love and respect each other. In so many cases, the Bio-mom is single or has a series of flaky boyfriends because HER issues are the reason the dad left in the first place and she isn't capable of sustaining a relationship. There are a lot of rad Bio-moms who this doesn't apply to and they are usually the ones who are happily married and often have step-kids of their own. This isn't always the case, of course, but it sure seems to be a common theme.

Because of the unfair and outdated legal system in relation to custody, mothers frequently get residential or full custody. This does not mean that they should have custody or that they are more fit to raise their children. Sure, some kids in this situation don't want to have visitation with their fathers. I wonder if it has anything to do with being exposed to their bio-moms bitter and skewed perspective. Kids are like sponges and absorb what they hear the most. If the BM has a poor opinion of her children's father and is a bad enough mother to voice this opinion or make it blatantly clear, then of course the kids are going to parrot this. I was lucky enough to have a mother that kept her negative views on my dad to herself (he cheated on her). Because my mom was and is awesome (my step-dad is awesome too) she never tried to poison me against my dad and I grew up having a loving and wonderful relationship with him. I grew up absorbing BOTH of their values and learning from their mistakes. I was raised primarily by my mother because the legal system favored her as the mom, but I would say that both of my parents and my step-dad were equally fit to parent me. Luckily, I got to be influenced and raised by all three.

The courts should evaluate all parents involved without any preference given to the father or mother and base their decision on what is best for the child, not automatically default to the mother (who is often totally incompetent and unstable. I personally know of three BMs with full custody and they all have diagnosed Borderline Personality Disorder. Their fathers do not have any mental issues and want to have custody of their children. Because of the system, these poor kids are stuck with unstable mothers rather than in secure, loving homes with their mentally competent fathers.)

In short, kids end up being closest to the BM in many cases, not because she is more fit to raise them, but simply because the courts DO favor mothers over fathers. These laws were established in a social environment completely different from our current one and need to be revamped and updated to be fair to the kids involved.

"The truth shall set you free." ~John 8:32

What a load of rubbish. The

What a load of rubbish. The influence of a Father in a child's life is just as important as a Mother. My son's Dad needs to stay involved in his life - it is crucial to him growing into a stable happy man. For my son's sake, I have always promoted that relationship no matter what my relationship was with my ex.

The point of this topic is that some mothers alienate their children from their father because of their own dislike or hate for the father.

No one is putting all the blame on BMs in general. It's just that some BMs use very bad tactics to get back at their exes - and it hurts the children most.

This sad situation tends to come about when a womans hate for her ex is stronger than her love for her kids.

If a husband had an affair, even more work may be needed to make sure the relationship between the child and father is strong. BM must have clear boundaries between what is right for the children and her own broken heart if the children are not to be damaged. I am not condining affairs but if everyone who ever had one wasn't allowed to see their children again, there would be very little parenting going on in the world. Parenting and marriage are different. Great if all families could stay together and no one ever stuffed up but we are all human and full of flaws so bad things happen.

They say absense makes the heart grow fonder. It is not my experience that being away from my children breeds comtempt in them.

Let’s remember that Parent

Let’s remember that Parent Alienation can happen to the father or mother and not all parents have their children's best interest in mind. Often hatred for the ex-spouse is stronger than any love either has for the child(ren). In the case for Malicious Mother Syndrome, it is the mother doing the alienation. Unless one is familiar with these type of cases, one cannot speculate what is really going on, included the judges who are clueless most of the time.

Your Right

It can be either parent with friends and relatives involved. Actually I think its more common then not. And speaking about who the child should be given custody to, I always believe in "most" cases unless the mother is very bad they should stay with her. It is a stronger bond, and why you typically see the children siding with the mother in divorces.

Psychotic Nasty Ex-Wife

My life is really horrible and I cannot even concentrate on my work! I've been with my fiance for over three years now and she is still trying to make our life impossible. Its every week, sometimes every day that we have to deal with her hysteria! She's filed every document possible trying to keep him away from the daughter they share; even a restraining order the judge denied!

It seems so hopeless since his daughter is so young and she isn't getting any better. What can I do to keep my relationship yet try to have a happy life? Why is she torturing us so much? Its very difficult to remain in this relationship with this drama and abuse I know I don't deserve. She calls and asks to speak to her "husband", says she is the love of his life who got away, and says its her he wants. She acts like a wild animal in the presence of the child, cussing and screaming. Can the courts ever listen to a man like him? Will they always side with the psycho ex who has filed pages and pages of false documents? She even went so far as to say that her daughter told her we have a gun and we keep it by the washing machine. (Not true, I hate guns)!

HELP! I cannot take another minute of this!

I am writing a book on this

I am a lawyer in Florida writing a book on this subject to help the fathers. Any stories, experiences etc. are welcome. My email is jluyster@bellsouth.net. I hope the book brings this to the attention of the judicial system and helps all of us get this syndrome recognized as a real problem that the experts can testify to in court.

help the fathers

This story has gone on for four years .My son's wife was alone with the three year old son when she with to the phone and made a call to the sheriff and said my my son said that daddy pee peeed on me . They came and took a quilt from a bed to get the D and A from it which they never did and our son's attonery tried to get it after way over a year and it had been destroyed,and no one could tell where it went. The mother of my son's child has hept him from being alone with him for four years now and also the Grandparents can not be alone with the child . He is now almost nine years old . He loved his Dad and Grandparents. My son is now divorced and it goes on and on . No way will anyone help us. The money with Parentin coordination and years of trying to get his son is hard to believe. All because the mother said the child said Daddy pee peed on me.
This is it . Hard to understand how a Mother can do this to her son and his Daddy.

NEW STEP-MOTHER

I AM A NEW MOTHER AND MY FIANCE HAS A 6YR OLD DAUGHTER. IN MY EYES THEY ARE SISTERS. WHEN I GO SHOPPING I DO NOT LEAVE HER OUT. I TREAT THEM THE SAME AS BEST I CAN. MY STEP-DAUGHTER LOVES HER SISTER AND IS SLOWLY GETTING CLOSER TO ME. SUPPOSEDLY HER DAUGHTER CAME TO HER AND WAS CRYING. SHE SAID SHE ASKED WHY I BOUGHT HER SISTER STUFF AND NOT HER. SHE SAID I SAID "BECAUSE YOUR NOT MY DAUGHTER." FIRST OF ALL I WOULD NOT HURT A CHILDS FEELINGS LIKE THAT. SECOND I DO BUY HER THINGS. I DO NOT DEAL WITH HER DIRECTLY AND I AM NOT SURE HOW TO HANDLE THIS. I THINK THAT IF THAT WAS MY CHILD I WOULD NOT HAVE LET HER COME OVER UNTIL I GOT THE TRUTH, AND SHE DID. WHEN SHE CALLED WHILE SHE WAS OVER SHE AND SHE DID NOT SAY A WORD. SO, I THINK THAT IT WAS MADE UP ACTUALLY I KNOW IT WAS. I WANT MY STEP-DAUGHTER TO FEEL AT HOME AT OUR HOUSE AND NOT FEEL LIKE SHE IS OUT OF PLACE BUT, ITS ALMOST LIKE SHE WANT'S HER TO. WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT TO YOUR CHILD? I THINKS THAT HER MOTHER HOOD IS BEING THREATENED BUT I WANT TO JUST BE ADULTS ABOUT IT. I AM GOING TO TAKE CARE OF HER WHILE SHE IS AT OUR HOUSE. I AM A MOTHER AND I WOULD WANT THE SAME WITH MY CHILD. IT'S LIKE 1 MIN. I DO NOT LIKE THE CHILD AND THEN ALMOST IN THE SAME WEEK SHE IS TELLING MY FIANCE I AM NOT HER MOTHER! I KNOW THAT, HELLO!!! I JUST SOME ADVICE.

See it Through 6 yr old eyes

A six year old is going to have some confusing emotions, especially when she's with you and you buy her things, treat her as any mom would treat her own child. That may well confuse the child and threaten her feelings for her own mom, which is understandable. It may be that when she gets home to BM she shares with her mom all the neat things you do with her and you guessed it, it threatens the BM. Bringing on untruths or versions of the BM's truth that she exploits with your SD.

I would remind your SD that you know you're not her "real" mom, but that you love her and her dad. Remind her gently that it's okay to love you and her mom, but that you will never take the place of her real mom. Saying those things may help your SD when the BM gets insecure and tries to confuse the little girl with rubbish.

You may want to think about generating a relationship with the BM. She may not be receptive, but it would help your SD in the long run to know that the both of you are supportive of each other.

That's what I did and so any issues that arose in the future couldn't go towards the blame game. The kids knew BM and me were a united front. (can't say the same for BM and BD, my hubby, but that's a different story.)

To the New Step mother

RUN RUN RUN!!! Kidding... They are sisters and I think it's important that they know it. There are so many factors to being a step parent and a step child. Let us not forget how hard it can be to be a stepchild. If the BM is having that many issues there could be several diffent reasons. She may very well feel threatened. Is it possible that she still has feelings for your fiance'? I think when feelings are still involved they feel replaced, that you are occupying her place in the family unit and also get to be the mother in the unit that she cannot be. Maybe you appear to her to be more organized, on top of your game and a better person over all. What a threat that is! We all have opinions and place judgement of some kind on people we meet no matter who they are. Now put that same judgement on the person that is will the man they should be with or mothering their child. OUCH!! Remember to how difficult that it may be for you step daughter. You now have a child with her father, so now you the new baby and her father are a "family". In some sense even though she may not be able to express it, she is the outsider. That piece that doesn't quite fit. I think it is vital to be a little bit more sensative to that. I would suggest that you not do that type of shopping for your child with her. Do that when she is with her mother. So when she is with you do thing together that are more equal so she doesn't feel left out. If your child is too young to know any better you might go shopping and buy something only for your SD and not your child. Or perhaps something she feels is a bigger deal. The tug-of-war that goes on between adults is way to much for them to understand and the mother almost always succeeds in manipulating their minds. You're not my mother are pretty strong words coming from a 6 year old. So my guess is that she does in fact have her mother in her ear. I think that is so sad and rediculous behavior for an adult let alone a parent. We are support to love and want our children to be loved! This is truly ugly behavior to be exposed to because behaviors are learned and the most influential people in a childs life are their parents. His daughter may not show signs yet at her age but it does show itself later in their life. My steps are now 11 & 13. We have been together since 2 & 4 and I can definitely see it in my 13 year old. Do know this though -- there is nothing that says that you have to love or be crazy about your step children or that they have to love you. What you do have to have is a respect level and fairness always. Be consistant and fair. Sometimes people just aren't a good fit and you may not be with your step or you for her. Naturally it would be ideal for love to be there but it just cannot be forced or expected. If you and the BM can have some form of communication and a mature "relationship" can exist, great! But I wouldn't suggest going in with you guard down and never tell to much, If she still has feeling then she may be taking notes to attack later. The more distance the better is she can't act right. Your focus needs to be on what your SD SEES from you.

Good luck!!!

on the flip side

there should be a Malicious Father Syndrome too. It's not always the BM.

Amen to that Sheila!

I don't know what you meant by this, Shiela but in my opinion there are a lot of fathers who need a good swift kick in the a#$ from what I can gather (and from my own experience!!!) Too often the step mothers are doing so much of the child rearing, biokids and stepkids, trying to work, cope with an ex and expected to be gracious and welcoming of any and all issues that arise. Sometimes I wonder where they fit into all of this. There don't seem to be too many issues from men about the exs of the women?!

Is this love????

Sometimes this behavior from BM, gets mistaken for the love she still harbors for the x-hubby. I myself do not believe it, I don't even understand how those actions could be called "love"..... but it seems to be a popular belief , including in my family. Lets call it what it really is, a sickness, a malicious way to act out. This syndrome should be brought out.

Didn't realize

that they actually have founded a syndrome for "vindictive bitch".

I'm sure there are a lot of deadbeat dads out there, but there are a lot of bm's that punish their children to punish their ex-spouses just to be vindictive. The sad part is there is literally no help for men to overcome the alienation of their children.

WA state will go after men for child support without a parenting plan, but they won't help fathers with visitations. Very interesting how you can hold a parenting financially responsible for a child, but you won't help that parent see his own kids. It's so sad to me...and in the long run, it's the children that are getting punished, and their childhoods ruined.

Yeah...

if you notice, they label anything these days...

Sometimes I think it's just a way to deflect from the real issues and give people an excuse to say... I have a serious medical condition. It's called Malicious Mother Syndrome. I just can't control myself, it's the disease...

Hmmm... I guess then you could say... Hello, my name is Step Mom. I have Benevolent Stepmom Syndrome.

True, Candice...but the opposite could also be said of many men

Many men are quite happy to move on with their lives and leave their exs supporting their kids. This happens way too often. Women can also be very wounded by divorce...perhaps that is why they are seen as such bitches by the new wifey (of which I am one of these!). There are SOOO many women that I have met who raise their kids without support of any kind because dad has moved on. Do you think that any of these men could be remarried to new women who think that ex "is a bitch who won't like hubby see the kids." You see I have an ex like that with a new GF who probably feels just that way. Funny, how we sometimes see our reality in whatever fashion suits our needs.

Yes there are..

that is why I put a note in the previous post about deadbeat dads. I know that there are men out there that do run, and avoid their responsibilities with their children. Is does appear however, that most states offer help to custodial parents over child support without ever going to court over it.

In my dh's situation, he had a child with an ex gf. They broke up, she moved out with the baby, she went on welfare, and they came to him for cs. Since they couldn't prove his income, they guessed what he was making based on his age. Cost bm nothing, and there was never a court date.

On the other hand, when bm freaked out that we were planning on getting married, she then started to alienate ss from us, and it cost us $10k to be able to see him without her interference. That is the part I'm complaining about.

I do see your point. I would carry a lot of resentment if I was loaded with the complete financial and emotional responsibility of raising my child w/o his father, meanwhile, he is off playing, having fun, while I'm doing all the work. And no matter how much you do your homework before you marry...there are no guarantees in life.

To answer your question, a new gf shouldn't worry about what the ex-wife "thinks" of her, and vice versa. If my dh's ex gf really doesn't like me...guess what? I will not lose any sleep over it. I have no desire to be friends with her, outside of my ss, I would have absolutely nothing to do with her. Of course, I think it is important for ss that we all get a long, but in the long run, if she appears to dislike me, which she has in the past, I can't take it seriousl b/c she is pist that someone found her ex bf (whom she didn't value when she had him) loveable, and wants to share their life with him.

She does get upset when we buy new vehicles, but that just has to do with her own jealous feelings. That is not our problem. We do our part to contribute fairly to the upbringing of ss (actually more than our fair part, we do most of hers too), so when she becomes pissy b/c we have a new Tahoe, I just ignore her b/c her attitude isn't a reflection of my actions/character.

So, long story short, new gf's shouldn't worry about what ex-wives think of them and vice versa. JMO...

Your Blog on Step talk.com

Read your blog on step talk.com. I was just wondering how things went with visitation and the ex wife after spending 10,000 taking her to court. My husband and I just opened up a court case because he has a 14 yr old and the mother alienates us from her etc etc.

malicious intent

BioDad, you are right.........i wasnt intending it to be a gender thing. lol

i wasnt referring necassarily to dead beat dads either. I attribute that phrase to dads who disappear and are not accountable. What i meant was, there are dads too who pit the kids against the bm. The one's who trash their x-spouse to their kids, share adult information about why the relationship didn't work, etc etc. I am seeing it first hand. It's disgusting and totally not fair. Kids are kids and should never be put in the middle of adult issues. Divorce is an adult issue, for whatever reason, and kids do not and should not know the details. They will grow up and ask their own questions and form their own opinions. To turn them on their other parent is just wrong and will come back to haunt them. Let kids be kids. Don't saddle them with hurtful adult hangups. To expect kids to "take sides" is vindictive, selfish and detrimental to the kids. They end up taking the side of the primary care giver, if for no other reason, than to keep the peace. But eventually, when they are able to make their own decisions, they will fault that parent for keeping them from the other one. Some people are just so caught up in hate and revenge that they fail to realize they are hurting their kids more with providing them hateful scenarios than if they just let them figure out for themselves who is the "sane" one. It all makes me crazy !! :?

Just because one is getting

Just because one is getting child support, that does not equate to parenting. In my case my ex left me for a much younger woman (girl) and NEVER sees our kids. He has had them over night 7 times in a year and a half. Our case did go to court and I was awarded 9 years of support although we were only married 15 and he has to pay a large child support as well. He is VERY successful and very selfish.

I beg him to spend more time with the kids but it just doesn't happen. There is no way to enforce the visitation schedule. He comes and goes as he pleases and when he has time to fit them in then he will see them. They are 13 and 14 years old. He likes to use the excuse that THEY are too busy.

So some of you wonder about us bitchy ex wifes. Hell yeah. you have someone walk out on you and your kids and see how you come out the other side

Oh that is tragic

my heart is wrenching for you and your kids! How heartbreaking! I feel anger for you just reading your post.

To me...

that's another issue... That is abandonment, neglect, far from someone actively seeking out to deprive the other parent who is attempting to seek their children and begin refused to do so at every cost.

You have every right to bitch! LOL I would too, but what I have a problem with is when the father IS in the picture, but the mother does everything she can to stifle it, deprive him, or manipulate all for her benefit. So, to me, your case is different.

I'm just catching

I'm just catching up....
Lots of twists & turns in the comments...

First, I've heard of malicious mother syndrome...I researched it along with Narcissist Personality Disorder and Border line personality Disorder..trying to understand my hubby's ex...and why she does what she does.... (and how she intereacted with her family / others while she & hubby were married)....many years ago.

She's been under the care of a psychiatrist for many years....but I don't know if she's been officially diagnosed with anything besides depression......

Hubby would often catch her lying to her shrink about even stupid little things...like sayinig she went for a walk everyday that week...when really she slept all day.....and I don't know how good shrink is. All I know is she is not well in the head!!!

And bettyboop...I often feel like my X thinks that because he pays CS...he's 'paying me' to be responsible for the kids 24/7..and he can continue to be irresponsible....although this is getting much better since his GF moved in.

He can take trips across Canada, Europe...party every long weekend, take weekend trips evey month, PArty every New Years, buy a house, buy a car....nothing wrong with any of that....BUT he gets pissy when we buy a second hand car, etc......

I think he sees everything we have and believes HE paid for it all. Hello...we have jobs..Hubby makes good money...and if hubby wants to buy a 7 year old second hand camper with his own money....the kids shouldn't have to listen to My Ex bitch to them about it. We don't take vacations, we don't go on trips, we don't go out barhopping...we work for what we have..and we spent our money differently than my EX or his EX does. I't not my fault my X pisses his money away...on the golf course, etc...and we don't and have stuff to show for our money....

The kids tell me all the time how jealous thier father is......
They don't need to know that...

Never thought of bitchy x wives that way, either, the resentment that would be there when someone you counted on ...walks out and leaves you hanging.... That would stir up feelings in anyone...if they did that that to a person.....If your mother or father left or abandoned you ...or your kids turned their backs on you....we hear about the hurt & resentment that can cause on this site..and It makes sense that when abandoned by the sposue who made 1/2 those kids...and they don't see the marriage through to raise them. I can imagine that stirs up all kinds of emotions..

But in many cases here ... the BM's that we speak of are the ones who made the decision to end the marriage. Thinking the grass was greener on the other side ..... then want to come back to thier first pasture..after its too late. So that's that part that has me confused...:P

I certainly understand how that would make anyone bitchy! (I felt like a single mother when I was married...)

I'm both a BioM and a StepM and Step grandma
I deal with my hubby's X....
I deal with hubby's X's BF (used to live in but not anymore
I deal with my X
I deal with my X's GF (live in so SM role)
I deal with a 13 yr old bio-girl
I deal with an 11 yr bio-boy with ADD
I deal with a 32 SD...with husband, 2 yr old, 9 mo old
I deal with a 21 SD..with fiance

And all the wonderful things that brings to my life...so I see many different sides of things..depending on what side of the fence I sit and what issue I have to deal with that day!!!!

We all know that SOME BM's are great and SOME can be bitches...and some SM's are great and some can be bitches....same for biodads/StepD's and so on. For the most part we speak from our individual experiences.....in my case..I'm reasonable, civil with my x..but the BM of my Sk's is a crazy bitch..nothing against BM's in general (I am one don't forget)just the one in my case...and in many other cases on this site apparently...

SO don't take things to heart when ppl generalize...it's not an attack on you per se...or your point of view. We just get caught up in our own situation/perspective when emotions are raw or have been recently triggered by the offending BM's or Skid in our situation.

Welcome to the site..btw

Couldn't have said it better myself!

I am in a near exact situation as you have explained, and you said everything I was thinking of writing here, thanks! It is nice to have others out there who can relate.

ThanksIt has been a tough

Thanks

It has been a tough road. Financially I am fine which is a relief. But I hurt for my kids. It is such a difficult time for teenagers and then to have to deal with this. I have never bad-mouthed my ex to the kids. I figure when they are older they will realize what their father has done. I believe my oldest has already done so. She told me she was emberassed of his girl friend. I think it is because of the age or she just might know he left me for her.

The kids have told me that she is nice which is good but she is from another country and is still learning english, so I am sure their conversations are limited.

All I can do is hope that if they do marry, that he does not have a child with her. He does not need to bring any more children into this world where he is incapable of being a good father.

I've had issues with my X

I've had issues with my X and how many times he's blown them off..they've grown closer to hubby than thier own Dad over the years...hubby puts soooooooooo much more time into them...never missed a game, fishing with them, or just hanging out...

It is a shame....but they still love him..even though he gets on thier nerves....

trying to deprive the kids

The other side of this for me is my ex is more interested in our son than our daughter. My son is the star athelete of his school. He scored 13 of the 15 touch downs for the season. He played select soccer up one year and his team was premiere and number one in our state. He made the all star baseball team. He is being scouted for high school basketball and he is only in seventh grade. You get it. Anyway, he does like to go and watch him, after all, he sees that as success for our son. He doesn't acknowledge the fact that he is an honor student and such a great person.

Our daughter on the other hand is also an honor student but is not involved in school sports. She is ranked in the top 15 in the country in horseback riding (hunters). She loves it so much and it has given her soo much confidence. She has been involved with riding since she was 7. For her now, the riding is such a joy and distraction from everything. My ex is now trying to take away the horse from her saying it is too expensive. He just wants to keep all his money for himself and his new girlfriend. I would say that if he couldn't afford it I understand but he is making more now than he ever has ( he makes in the very high six figures). I think it is crazy that he is trying to do that to her. He hasn't even seen her in 3 weeks now. He only lives 20 minutes away. He has only seen her ride one time in three years, even though she rides EVERY day.

I do feel alot of rage towards my ex because of the ongoing uninvolvement with the kids. He left, moved his girlfriend in from another country (they had only know each other 4 months)before divorce papers had been filed and told the kids not to tell me he was living with her. I absolutely want to stick it to him. I know it is not a healthy attitude but when you have been walked out on twice for someone else and your children abandoned, I just can't help it. I am going to drag him back to court every year to get my cs raised. I could care less what she thinks although I do care how she treats the kids.

Thanks for sharing your experiences with me.

My dad did some of this

I can relate to your daughter, b/c my parents divorced, and my dad really paid attention to my brother over me. It really stung as a kid. And to add insult to injury, my mom did speak negatively about my dad, and whenever my dad sent my brother a bday gift, but forgot to even just call me on my bday, well my mom honed in on this and exploited my life by talking about how my dad just didn't care about me. I just need to be reassured that I was loved, not used to validate her own feelings of abandonment.

Anyhow, my dad did do some really good things for me like sending me to sporting camps (never asked my mother to pay), he tried to facilitate music, etc...and he did make every one of my drama plays.

I'm sorry that your ex wants to take away the only sport your daughter loves. I truly hope that if he does, that you can still afford it w/o him. It would just devastate her, and that in itself would be tragic.

My comments to you is that you still harbor a lot of resentment (and I don't blame you) towards your ex, that you are right, it isn't healthy. And I want to say this to help YOU, but as along as you hold onto that resentment, you will prevent yourself from really fully living your life to it's potential. I'm an adovate for helping individuals living their fullest lives, and I hope you already are.

What happened to you isn't fair, it isn't fun, but it is happening. I hope that you know that no one would wish upon you the abandonment you have faced, and I sincerely hope that you are successful in every way you wish to be. What you have endured isn't easy or fun.

My best to you and your family,
Candice

What about maternal instinct in a really bad situation???

I have read about this "syndrome" and PAS. My question here is what about a decent mother who is trying to protect her kid from an abusive ex & father. All of the criteria in this diagnosis can (and probably will) eventually be used to give power to some abuser somewhere. I have done all of these things....

Attempting to alienate their mutual child from the father

He is disabled and getting SSDI from his "mental health" conditions and has boken into the house, beaten our 15 month old. Given me nerve damage @ 6 weeks postpartum and is generally unstable. He would say that I alienate our child from him.

Involving others in malicious actions against the father

I have involved the courts via protective orders and social services via supervised visitation (which he screwed up by chasing us through the parking lot scaring the crap out of me and our then 2 year old)

Engaging in excessive litigation

Um... 2 restraining orders and 4 violations of them later (not to mention child support, and custody... btw custody always lists me as defendant and awards me sole custody... we are on our 4th order in 2 years.) I have appeared in court 20 times, and am still begging for a divorce hearing.

And I have (I am sure if you asked him and his lawyer) specifically attempted to deny my child:

Regular uninterrupted visitation with the father

I will not agree to unsupervised due to his behavior, criminal history (convicted of manslaughter in 1983), and "condition"

Uninhibited telephone access to the father

Actually I just gave in to this on the condition that he supplies the prepaid cell phone, and I do not have to give out any of my info.

paternal participation in the child(ren)'s school life and extra-curricular activities

He can't know her school address, my home address etc... because of the restraining order.

And I am certain that he would tell you that I have blown out of proprortion if not out right...

Lied to the child
Lied to others
and at the very least, severly manipulated the law at every turn.

My fear with all of this "syndrome" stuff is that it undermines the few resources an honest mom in a bad situation has and takes away tools she really needs to help her kid. I hate that there are those out there that screw over decent parents (regardless of gender) but can we really endorse PAS and the like in good concience? It is the precedent not he principal that worries me... just my (very long winded) 2 cents....

There are

many men like that who should never see their kids. Thanks for posting that, and I would do all you can to get him out of your lives permanently, even if you have to move very far away!

Unfortunately, bitch is not a legal term unless you are a dog.

Now, I'm sure there's a few BM's or StepM's out there that could offer a few choice words on the dog thing, but that's not really my point.

For the most part I consider PAS a way to say vindictive bitch in a way that won't get you in trouble with a judge or make you seem inappropriate around the kids and in-laws.

As far as the rest of my life is concerned, I just say vindictive bitch if that is what I mean. There is a phenomena in which I have personally labeled as the fluffybunnyization of America.

At what point our culture decided that using acurate descriptive language was uncivilized, I am not sure. Teaching a six year old to hate Daddy or Mommy, just because you haven't found closure is vindictive and bitchy. Why sugar coat things?

What really amazes me is how my husbands vindictive bitchy ex wife can spout off all day long about how important she thinks the Father/daughter relationship is, and turn around and do everything she can to destroy it.

I am also an ex wife and I do not feel any great need to worry about who my ex husband is boffing. Thankfully, I did not have a child with this man (Note me getting down on ground and thanking any and all dieties that made this decision possible) but if I did I wouldn't care if he did it with every single player on the local football team, as long as the kids were not there.

BM is extremely obsessed with my husband's and I sex life and marriage. She does a better job of keeping track of my anniversary than I do for crying out loud. This chica is into some serious boil your bunny stuff and it's really creepy. I didn't meet the guy till way after she left him, what gives?

Anway, I know here are girlfriends that are wacko too, but I'm not one of them. I don't care if BM does it with the football team either, cuz I have this nifty thing called a life of my own. As long as my skids are cared for, all is well in my book.

But going back to the syndrome thing, I think it lets people off the hook in a way. It's sort of the "devil made me do it" for modern times. Give me a break. Like she doesnt know it's inappropriate to shout sexually derogatory profanities at me. Yeah, I'm sure if the counselor told her that was improper it would be a true moment of enlightenment for her. "Golly, I thought people liked being called a whore."

I'm not going to participate in this fluffybunnyness. Yes, BM is crazy, but she's still a vindictive bitch and anyone with an IQ higher than their shoe size knows better than to feed that to their kids.

As far as the case with abusive Dads, all abusers blame their victims and our culture lets them get away with it for a variety of reasons. If there is a real history of abuse, it's not alienation to protect the kids, it's common sense and I hope that the judge would not be so extraordinarily stupid as to confuse the issue.

Once again, my two cents.

// Susanna

"One breath at a time is an acceptable plan."
Ani DiFranco

It's about crossing the line, folks.

I stumbled upon MMS on the internet today after taking the last straw from my husband's ex. I'm thrilled that someone out there has finally pointed out that the mother isn't always right.

The sad, plain fact of the matter is that the mother almost always fairs better than the father when it comes to divorce and custody. The Malicious Mother (MM)is the woman who is aware of this fact and abuses it. She crosses ethical lines to fulfill her needs. This isn't the case of someone just being bitchy or vindictive; this is when someone goes beyond what is right to trash her ex without any regard for the people involved... including the children.

My husband's ex has gone as far as to:

- bring the kids to their divorce proceedings in court (no lie!);
- claim that my husband's now-deceased mother had used "inappropriate language" in front of the children, and use this to have my husband's visitation pared down by the court;
- then tell him he is a negligent father because he doesn't spend enough time with the children (and accuse my husband of "hiding behind" the court-order as "an excuse");
- claim that I had "inappropriately touched" one of the children (!!!);
- claim that my husband and I performed sexual acts in front of the kids (!!!!!!);
- bring the kids to the emergency room instead of the doctor when they are ill, knowing that the co-pay my husband two-and-a-half times more than a standard office visit;
- withhold medical bills (my husband's responsibility) mistakenly sent to her until they go into collection;
- failed to tell my husband and I about extra-curricular events the kids are involved in, and then blast us for not being there;
- send my husband a nine-page e-mail berating him as a father and CC'ing the kids;
- demand over $1000/month more in child support or she would keep the kids from their father;
- harass me e-mail with racist, hateful, ultra-right-wing content (also CC'd to kids).

Today, eight years after their divorce, her attorney submitted a motion to have my husband submit to a drug test... out of nowhere, she's now claiming that my husband and I smoke marijuana in front of the kids. (And, amazingly, my husband is expected to pay for the test.)

My husband is not a perfect man. But I can say these things in total honesty: he's never once been late with a child support payment. He's never said negative things to the kids about their mother or the way she raises them. He may not be the most emotionally-available person out there, but he does everything to keep his kids out of the crossfire.

And, most importantly, he and I have certainly never done any of the horrible things this woman has accused us of... something she's done in the name of "protecting her children."

And there's the key: MMs think they are protecting their kids when they are actually subjecting them to their own hatred and malice. And that's the line that is crossed. My husband and I can handle all the terrible outlashing... but the kids should be spared.

When will the courts ever wake up and realize this is a legitimate problem?

OMG...that is terrible!

First I want to say I'm sorry you and your dh have experienced these horrible actions. The legal system does seem to protect criminals before law abiding citizens. As far as the drug test, can you retaliate by requesting that she must submit, and pay for her own? Sometimes you need to fight fire with fire...

I hope very soon, the courts will remove the bandages they have so tightly wrapped around their eyes/ears, and begin to give fathers' their due rights...

Malicious Mom

I am a loving stepmom to 3 great step children. My husbands ex wife left him for another man and abandoned 6 kids (3 kids are his)and moved to Australia. She left all 6 kids with my husband and disappeared for a year. My husband lost everything (house, cars, etc). She sent no money to help him support the children She comes back after one year demanding that she take the children back to Australia with her. To make a very long story short it turned out to be a huge custody case in which my husband won joint Physical custody. This happen about 4 years ago and my husband and I have been married for 2 years. In the past 2 years we have endured her bullying and receive nasty messages on our answering machine when we are not home. She never lets us know when she will be calling. We just started forwarding our calls to our cell phones so the kids won't miss their mothers calls. We have been the victims of her using CPS to falsely accuse my husband of child abuse. Called my husbands job anonomously to get him fired etc. She is a nightmare. She has visitation in the summer time and last year gave us only 3 days notice of when the children would be leaving to see her. My husband was in the hospital having major surgery and she actually demanded that he take the children in a taxi for a 3 hour drive to get them on the plane with no regard to the fact that he was totally incapitated. We had to take her back to court just so she would have a deadline in which to send the kids their airline tickets. She is constantly bad mouthing me and my husband to the children. It turns out that we can't do but so much because she is hiding in another country. The scary thing is she has no respect for the court and we fear one day she may try to keep the children there. In the 3 years Ive been with the children she has not sent one card or gift for their birthday or christmas. How can someone who abandoned her children and left the country have so many rights and us so few???? We have heard that at her house their is a fair amount of drinking, parties, and she has struck her own daughter. Yet we are the ones with our privacy invaded and the ones being investigated! I am a total witness that good fathers who want to raise their children don't have many rights. This ex of his is one french fry short of a happy meal.

Puterlady I am sooo sorry

Puterlady

I am sooo sorry for what you are dealing with. How unfair. I wish the courts had no prior prejudices and precedences against divorce, rather a case by case evaluation. I am sorry for what you are going through.

What I don't get....

is why someone would have MMS when they are not an ex-wife. BM in my case had SS knowing that my H was married to me, and that the man she wanted to be the father was also married. Ok, that should be Indicator #1 that she didn't have SS's best interests in mind...she didn't care who his father was, so long as she could name someone to pay her CS. When that guy was ruled out, she waited about another year to file against my DH. She avoided talking to my H about having SS visit. She did this even after paternity was established. That whole time, she was saying how her 2nd husband was going to adopt SS, and undermining my H's role at every turn. Now we've had a custody order for over a year, she doesn't follow it. At the present time, it's been over 3 weeks since SS's last visit, and she isn't responding to emails (the standard of her and H's communication). But, because he's behind on support, of course she siced Domestics on us again, now he'll have to pay about 2 grand to the court so he won't get locked up again. In no way do I see this as doing the "right" thing.

She also has said that she has SS call her 2nd H "Daddy", and she claims she does this because of the son between those two, because she doesn't want to "confuse" that kid. But she got mad when we told SS that my H is his father. Her husband has also sent us scathing emails, bashing not only my H , but me and our children as well. She claims that me and DH's children are not really SS's half-siblings, only HER children are his "REAL" brother and sister, even her 2nd H's son (who has no blood relation at all). Not only does she go on about what her H thinks of us, she constantly says that her family and friends talk about us too...more than half the time that's why she says she does what she does, and says what she says~ because "other people tell me this..." :sick:

Lately, she's even been starting to say that because he has tantrums at HER house or when he's out with her, that it is a "direct correlation" with him visiting at OUR house. So even before this recent communication freeze, she was saying he "shouldn't" have overnights anymore, because SHE doesn't agree that he's accustomed to them. Nevermind the fact that he happily plays here, he takes pride in his paintings he makes here....yeah, I would call that alienation, all right.

Puterlady I am sooo sorry

Thank you for that. This is only just a piece of what this family has been going through. What I have a hard time understanding is how she hates my husband more than she loves her children. She is the one who cheated and left him for another man. She is the one that chose to leave her children behind. Ok I understand that relationships don't work out but how can you leave 6 children behind? She is the same way with other ex husband. She spends so much time trying to destroy my husband than she is being a mother. This is supposed to be a joint custody situation. How can they give joint custody in a situation where she abandoned the children and refuses to communicate with my husband? In my opinion refusing to communicate with the childrens father is teaching the children that his opinion means nothing. My husband and I find ourselves in situations where we have to explain to the children why Mom doesn't do what she is supposed to do. They are old enough now that they are catching on. We don't want the children to grow up with any hate because that would be bad for them but there is only so much we can do. We are trying to keep the children's best interests in mind however my husband is not a man with a lot of money that can fight these legal battles in court all of the time. The divorce left him bankrupt and she is paying very little child support. You see she is claiming that she only makes minimum wage. She makes more than that but we can't prove it because she lives in Australia. She is keeping her children in a poverty level just for spite. The sad thing is we can't do a thing.

Amazing....

I came here to check on issues I'm having with my SD and I stumbled upon this topic and was completely amazed. I know this is a forum for venting, but I believe most comments have been made using personal assumptions rather than knowing all the facts.

So far this post shows me that women believe BFs are deadbeats or could careless about their children, if you are a SM all BMs have MMS and that the BM has a better connection with the child than the BF does. Like I stated before these are all assumptions and personal points of view without any true statistical or hard data to back up the statements.

I am a BF as well as a SF and believe that I have as much connection with my BD and BS as my W. I can honestly state that my W would agree with this statement. Now with my SD, we are still building our relationship, so I'll give my W the lead in this area. I've seen situations (freinds & family) where the BM has a better connection with the children, but have viewed just as many where the BF has a better relationship with the children. To me, too many people here are complaining about the BF but don't really know the feelings or point of view of the BF, they're just running with their own assumptions. Could it be you as the BM are failing to realize you have the so called MMS which is pushing away the BF? I've seen it before, from both the BF and the BM.

I agree that MMS or MFS or MPS happens way too often. After seeing my fair share of these, everyone suffers, not just the child. No one has mentioned the fact that the BM with MMS calls the BF a deadbeat, but fails to realize it is her own actions that are causing the BF to act in this fashion. You'll notice many more BM are claimed to have this disorder than BF, so it only promotes the stereotype that the BF is a deadbeat. To me, it seems that some posters here are suffering from this, but seem to blame their problems on the BF rather than looking at themselves.

The courts, unfortunetly, still live by the sterotype that the BM is a better fit than the BF. Which is clearly untrue with no factual data supporting this view point. Any information anyone has that shows a BM is a better fit or parent than BF, then post away. Please don't post data about you and your X, I want unbiased reliable data that covers many families and situations. At least the courts in my local state have started to review their processes and are finding that their perceptions from previous generations have no backing, requiring laws to be re-written. I agree the BF is starting to gain ground in custody battles, but we are still far behind and late on correcting this misconception.

I figured I'd get some advice from this site about help with my SD, but after reading through a few of the different topics and posts, this site doesn't provide a solution. It's simply a forum for complaining and X bashing. Nothing truly constructive and useful to help promote better relationships between the separated BM & BF. This of course is my point of view and you can take it for what you want, but this site does not help BF or SF other than viewing peoples complaints with their so called deadbeat X.

Thanks everyone, I can now try to find a forum that actually helps me with my predicament rather than bashes men.

Hi, I am a SM to 3 children

Hi, I am a SM to 3 children that my husband has raised on his own. I totally agree with you on the fact that BD don't get the courts to back them up. His ex left him with 6 (3 not his_kids and ran off with some man to another country. She abandon these children and left the country yet she has "rights". If it were the other way around believe me my husband wouldn't have a chance in hell. My husband is nothing but polite when she calls yet she is doing nothing but bad mouthing him and I to the children. I don't understand why she has any say so for anything we do with the kids at all. She left her children behind and does nothing for them except torture them mentally.

Yes I've heard of it

and if I could post her picture RIGHT Here I would! She's my DH EX Witch.

Smile !!!

"Be there for the joy. Be there for the tears. Be there for each other."
(Step-Mom the Movie 1998)

My situation exactly

My boyfriend and I are going through what we think is Parental Alienation Syndrome. I posted a new post with my situation. If anyone has any advice please let me know. The situation is ridiculous!

Women are weak

My mom cheated on my dad. They were divorced. She is a hypocrite. She says when something bad happens she just pushes it out of her head. Yet, everytime she calls me she mentions something bad about my father. And she is supposed to be christian! But she has this bitterness and anger in her that won't go away.

I truly dislike her.

And there is no way in the world that a single woman can raise children properly. NEVER.

Shared Parenting with a Malicious Mum

My partners ex took his child to the other side of the country to start a relationship with someone else - then got angry when he wasn't emotionally or financially able to follow her so cut off all communication.
It took my partner 2 years to save the money required (and get his head together enough) to get himself to where she was, hire a private investigator and find his son.
Since then she has - told his son her new partner is his father, denied access (for 2 months) on flimsy excuses such as "I believe he is a flight risk because he expressed a dislike of having to move here in an email to me 6 months ago"
Told his son that he is a friend, like a friend from school, not his father
Informed my partner that his son had been in hospital but was out now and couldn't make a visit - then turned off her mobile (his only contact point) so he didn't know what hospital his son had been in, if it was true, his current condition etc.
I could go on all day
Some women truly are simply malicious because they can't forgive their partner for past hurts - in this case a dispute over a car and his failure to be able to move when she did. This woman does not see that he could have forced her to stay where he was by legal injunction if he had known his rights, and it was her obligation to stay so he could have a relationship with his child.
I have always tried to see the alternative point of view in disputes and my ex partner and I have a great friendship. This woman I can not fathom at all - she is what Malicious Mother Syndrome is based on.

I am the BM and I have to

I am the BM and I have to deal with a step mother that does all the things described by the first post, the alienation, my numbers are blocked so I can't call my kids, she and my husband don't tell me when the kids have school concerts ro when their report cards come but when I go to the events because I keep up with the kids school things by visiting the school website on a weekly basis, i get an email from hell and now she is starting to make accusations about me through email. I am scared for my kids to be around this type of person and there is nothing I can do about it. My poor kids are going to have serious relationship issues when they are older due to this horrible vindictive woman. I made a mistake letting my ex-husband take the kids but at the time, this woman was charming and nice and we all got along great, it's been the least year or so where all this craziness started...is she sick or something? Can i do anything about it?

Does anyone know anyone that

Does anyone know anyone that has prevailed in court (custody) against the Malacious Mom? How did they do it?

Response to the original post

Yes I have heard of this, I have lived through this first hand. My initial impression of how BMs behave was based on my husband's ex. She did everything that was listed in the original post and more including making false reports to the police that were completely unrelated to his child. She has since changed her ways and tried to make up for her past behavior but my impression of BMs is skewed by her actions.

Been there done that and got the shirt

Long long story short going through it five years now had custody 3 but I'm still trying to find a way to deal with mom even after getting custody. Daughters in therapy for it and has physical problems because of the stress. In my case it was like mom read the MMS definition and followed it as a guide. I'm here looking or anyone else that has to deal with it every day.

Sorry, all, but this article

Sorry, all, but this article is a fake. The author is not a faculty member named Turkat at either the Florida Institute of Psychology or the University of Florida College of Medicine - nor has there ever been faculty (or student) by that name. I called them both and inquired as part of my partner's divorce proceedings from her ex. Neither institution is in Venice, Florida (the address listed at the end of the "paper") and when you google street view the address given, the address either doesn't exist, or appears to be an abandoned apartment block or empty lot. All that is beside the fact that the only record of Mr. Turkat is on websites replicating this alleged scientific "paper" and the fact that it reads like a first-year psych student's all-nighter.

There might indeed be malicious people out there, folks, but the only mental health disorder related to this so-called "syndrome" is in the delusional minds of people who believe this crap without doing some basic research into the subject.

Our girl used to come in and

Our girl used to come in and tell me what her mother said about me, the questions she was told to ask of me and I did get upset to begin with but then the bond I have with our girl deepened and her and we used to sit and laugh at some of the comments and make up some of our own. She'd be like 'oh! guess what mom said to call you this time!' and I would just smile. I never once disrespected the mother to the kids, I did say that she was not the sort of person I would choose as a friend but I am civil and I respect the kids, and the fact that she is their mother.

I have the same amount of curiosity as any other person, sure, I'd love to be a fly on the wall in that house at times when the kids are there.
I just had to accept that she is going to be part of their lives, however large or small, and I set boundaries with BM too. Things like 'DO NOT just walk into our house ma'am, do not call for no good reason' and all the other things that she does just out of badness that's in her.
Parent alienation is insidious and the damage it does can end up ruining perfectly good relationships. I am only human, I got sucked into it all for a while too! The kids seemed to be reluctant to let go of the idea that their dad had moved on with his life and they very easily bought into the mother's alienation. I do not blame them really, it's fairly common with kids to want their parents back together and things to be as they were before.
I absolutely agree that there should be a name given to this behavior and it should become a classified offence and punishable by law. I hear Siberia is not so cold this time of year! Seriously, though, I think if a judge were to place limits on access and order evaluations or counseling to the parent who is doing the alienation it might make them stop and think? I believe that kids should be professionally counseled to accept and understand what they are in the middle of too, not every parent is as understanding as my husband is or as I have come to be in this situation. Counseling might have helped our kids and us initially too, we learned some of it the hard way!

Wow, this describes my DH's

Wow, this describes my DH's ex to a T! Especially the excessive litigation part.

I agree, unfortunately, the children are attached to the person/parent they are with the most. Usually that is the BM. When they are vindictive and malicious enough to use the children as weapons, the true victims are the children.

We have to remember, these kids are not equipped to handle these situations emotionally. The fact is, they didn't ask for this. They didn't want to become ping pong balls. The fighting and the manipulations is bound to have a bad effect on them and we as step parents are the unwitting recipient of a lot of their anger.

There are many days I want to give up. There are many days where I have to fight from wishing something horrible happens to the BM because I don't want the bad juju.

But we said yes! We agreed to marry this man we thought was THE ONE!

I am not Carol Brady, but I'm not Maleficent either. I'm somewhere in between. I'm human too.

It's a bad, bad situation when women use their children. The ones who get hurt are the kids.

A great and reasoned argument

A great and reasoned argument about Parental Alienation and Malicious Mother so-called Syndromes:
http://www.stopfamilyviolence.org/info/custody-abuse/parental-alienation...

You are here

Anyone heard of Malicious Mother Syndrome?