So ODD it is!
That means Oppositional Defiant Disorder not just odd! Don't get me wrong, SS8 is odd as well but now we have a word/diagnosis for why he refuses to listen to anything! There is no known cause per say. A lot of doctors think it is poor parenting. I tend to agree with this, at least partially. Family mental illness can also contribute to ODD.
Seeing how BM is bi-polar/manic or whatever it is that keeps her in the drugs, I understand how he could have inherited some of his traits from her. It scares me to know there is no medication specifically designed to treat ODD. We do not know the treatment plan at this time.
If any StepTalkers out there have experience with this let me know!
I kind of have this feeling it is just a nice way of saying your kid is a brat who will never listen to you but I don't want to completely dismiss this as a medical condition.
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Thanks. I have told DH about
Thanks. I have told DH about being consistent with his expectations of SS8. Consistent with his punishment. This is a hard accomplishment for him after being Disney Dad for so many years. Of course that leaves me as the bad guy 100% of the time.
Have you ever seen The
Have you ever seen The Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt? In one episode a doctor prescribes a new drug for the hellion that she babysits. It's called Dyziplen.
I have never seen so many
I have never seen so many kids "with something" either. I really feel like it was such a lack of supervision and rules on DH part. The kid was nice to me for like 3 days then went crazy when I had a rule or told him no. It has been a battle of the wills ever since then! It's so exhausting.
There are many theories on
There are many theories on this but the best/most believable one I've read about it that these disorders are real but great influenced by a child up-bring. Not parenting per say but sensory issues. That we a parents have over stimulated and pushed our children into this disorders. Prior generations had latch-key kids that played outside and interacted with other children freely. You learned lessons on playgrounds and life experiences. If you were a bully, you got over that by being knocked down by a larger kid instead of school, legal and parental intervention foe example. Kids now start scheduled learning much earlier, like in preschool which is not intuitive to how they naturally learn to interact in society and life lessons. Granted a lot of what you mentioned are historically disorders that were under diagnosed.
I have spoken to DH about
I have spoken to DH about that as well but SS8 never attended pre-school. He failed kindergarten because he just was not ready for all they wanted him to learn.
He grew up spending most of his time unsupervised and able to watch anything on t.v. he wanted. Drank coke after coke all day long. Screaming at and hitting adults until they gave into him.
There was never an expectation for this child's behavior until I came into the picture. I can understand that at first that would be very hard for a child to accept these expectations. I took baby steps. Like sleep in own bed. Took over a year but we finally got it. Eat at the table. Yes he does if you make him but he will get up 10 times and have food debris in a 3 foot radius around his chair. Don't let a child watch rated R movies. That went okay. He screamed and cried and threatened me. Now three years later he knows he is not supposed to watch them.
He is the class bully and the smallest person in the class. He has choked a kid, thrown food at kids, snapped scissors at child and the list goes on and on.
I am sure some of it may be the fact that he was guilt parented because "mommy walked out". No way to know for sure.
I just got frustrated with
I just got frustrated with downsouth because so often people blame the parents when kids have their own personalities and health issues and genetics and luck etc.
But then I read this, and I think it would be very difficult to separate the parenting from the kid here. That is a really bad environment for anyone to be expected to develop normally.
Many different types of kids
Many different types of kids develop from many kinds of environments. I just feel that the kid would have been prepared to deal with some basic rules had he had any rules/guideline in his early years.
You are very lucky that you
You are very lucky that you were able to help your DH with this. I also tried when DSO got full custody of skids.
SS get suspended from school. I said he shouldn't be allowed to watch tv when that happened. DSO felt sorry for him and never did it. It finally got to where SS would get multi-day suspensions and he got to go stay with BM (against court orders) bc DSO couldn't afford to miss more work. BM just got in the kids head and told him to act up more with me and to keep getting into trouble then I would kick DSO and kids out.
I ended up just telling DSO that he had to get his own place with skids or SS could go live with BM, but I wasn't having a mini BM in my house or putting up with his increasing violence. DSO dropped the ball big time and just let SS live with BM.
SS is headed in suspension
SS is headed in suspension direction. He has already had to sit in principals office for like a week because he refused to listen.
BM use to tell SS then 5 and 6 to be mean to me. Would tell him "how to hurt me and make me cry". We could never let SS live with BM because she can't even take care of herself. I wish she was a normal mommy. It would be so nice to get a break even EOW.
Wow, way to disparage all the
Wow, way to disparage all the parents out there who are doing their best with their kid. Not all kids with problems have crappy parents. And painting all medical learning in the last 25 years as a "newfangled "illness""? Well. I read some recent parenting advice I'll share with you.
Don't be a jerk. What kind of person sits on some self-made parenting throne, pronouncing judgement as though their easy time with their kids means that they are a better parent? When you could be counting your blessings that you don't have a kid with health or behavioural issues? When you could be thankful that you could feed your kids and put a roof over their head?
My siblings and I come from a
My siblings and I come from a terrible home environment. Drugs, alcohol, physical an mental abuse. Our mother lost custody of all 3 of us on her side (I have half siblings on my dad's side as well). My sister and I could write a Lifetime movie that would make your stomach turn. Not a single one of us has been arrested, been unemployed, hurt a child, been to rehab or been a burden to society. We are well adjusted and have been fairly successful.
You are correct when you say people whine a lot more. I think it is societal break down. We all need to have an excuse for our and our children's behavior.
Maybe some people are just born jerks, maybe some develop it because of their surroundings, maybe some do it on purpose as a way to keep people at a distance. I just find it hard to believe that SOOO many kids are this damaged.
Would a rose by any other name smell just as sweet. Would horrible behavior call ODD be just as horrible. I think so.
Thanks Moeilijk! My bio son
Thanks Moeilijk! My bio son has ODD and some of the comments here are crap. A child with ODD doesn't care if a parent says "NO". Literally doesn't care. Or when a parent has rules? Good luck!!
Just an example....getting up for school. They refuse to get up. At age 5-10 you can literally pick them up and make them get out of bed. Ever try to dress a 10 year old that doesn't want to get dressed? Who doesn't care if they have to stay in their room for the whole day with absolutely nothing? No tv, no toys, no anything remotely fun? Times that for two weeks straight. They feed off of being able to control situations. The satisfaction they get from NOT following rules sustains them when they have noting else.
NOW go to a teenager..now taller and stronger than you. Again...good luck. ANY rule or consequence of not following said rules is met with hours and hours of verbal abuse (if your lucky that's all) and in the end they do what they want. You can take what you want from them or reward them...it still only feeds their need for control because YOU are doing whatever you can to get them to listen to you and they don't...so they win. AND they know this because they will make no hesitation in telling you.
IF you happen to find a trigger that can motivate them to follow a rule (ie A girlfriend) THEN you may have a chance. Like...if you don't go to school you won't get to see your girlfriend. AND if you complete your homework she can come over for an hour after supper. But don't use it too often because it wears thin really fast...because ultimately they don't really care about that...only that they are in control.
Therapy can help...the parent. It lets you know that it's not YOU...but the ODD that's creating the monster you have to live with. The census is that parenting has a huge part in ODD...in some cases maybe. My son has shown signs of ODD since before he was 3; I can't see how I could possibly have parented an ODD child from 0-3. I thought it was the terrible twos...nope! I've taken parenting classes, seen doctors, read every piece of literature and method, and I've been in therapy with him since age 7. After they hit teenage years therapy doesn't work..they see nothing wrong with their behavior and again..you can't literally FORCE them to the sessions.
ODD is odd. My son is a 90s average student in grade 11. Not in trouble with the law. Can talk circles around any teacher or counselor. The rarely sees what I see because of his grade. They let him slide along rather than deal with his anger and defiance issues.
All I can say is good luck and hope your case of ODD is mild.
I think you are right Step.
I think you are right Step. You didn't see as many discipline problems before divorce became the norm. You could also put 'getting their asses smacked' at school and home on that list also.
I can definitely agree with
I can definitely agree with this for normal marriages and families. BM left when SS was just a few months old. He never had an intact family that loved each other. He can't miss something he never had. I am the first time the kids have had a stable mother and he almost hates me for it.
SD15 likes having a real mom who works and cooks and isn't on drugs. She is a teenager and does really stupid things but has never lashed out to just hate on me like SS has. It is crazy how she can attach to me and he can not. SD was with her mom for nearly seven years on and off. Between BM's party phases and other men. SS never had his mother yet he tells me all the time he wants to live with her.
I try to show love to both of them. Telling them they are special, attending to their needs and wants, talking about their future hopes and plans. The only thing it gets me from SS is a bunch of hate. SD engages and is happy someone cares about her enough to not just be her friend but be a parent.
Very confusing to not have a foundation, then be given one and despise and resent that stability.
My oldest bio is on the
My oldest bio is on the Autism spectrum (high-functioning) but I didn't want to go the "let's medicate him into a submissive coma" route so we tried Behavioral Therapy. Once a week, for well over a year, we met with a therapist. It helped tremendously. The therapist encouraged consequences for negative behavior and rewards for positive. But the bottom line was it was all about CONSISTENCY.
I have seen some consistency
I have seen some consistency pay off in his situation. It is very slow process and I need way better tools to deal with him and keep my sanity.
I am glad your SS is doing
I am glad your SS is doing better.
SS8 was originally diagnosed with ADHD when he was 6. I did not see any actual signs of attention issues. He has no problem focusing selectively (as in what he wants to focus on). The medicines they put him on made him lose weight and he already is such a tiny little boy. We decided this was not a good route for him. He did pretty well the first couple months of school this year. His grades were fine with no meds. His behavior just progressively got worse the longer he had to obey school rules. He just defies the teacher and general societal norms.
SS complained of stomach pain
SS complained of stomach pain all the time too. He would talk like he was "high" when he was coming down off that stuff. It was terrible.
Technically ODD is just a
Technically ODD is just a quick DX until they can find the exact problem, or no mental problems at all.
I've read a lot on a ODD forum as my YSS has this and sever impulse control. Basically, he learned when he was very little that the louder he screamed and the more violent he became, he was allowed to do as he pleased. Kid can behave when threatened with jail so it isn't ODD, but SP, shitty parenting.
I have called the sheriff on
I have called the sheriff on him. He was 7 then. He was good for about a day after that. He may be too young to really comprehend the complete loss of his freedom. He has no fear really. Spankings never worked so quit that. Taking away things didn't work. Rewarding good behavior has not worked.
Just think they are pretty much telling us is really bad and this is a fancy way of saying it.
SS spent 3 years in juvie and
SS spent 3 years in juvie and treatment centers. While he was out this summer, he did a 10 day stretch in juvie for busting out many windows at BMs. After 10 days, he was released (to DSO but SS stayed with BM...did what he wanted to yet again and got away with it) and hasn't been in major trouble in 3 months.
AT 7 he doesn't realize what juvie or being sent away means. SS had just turned 13 when he was finally arrested, after multiple warnings by the cops.
My BS15 has ADHD and ODD and
My BS15 has ADHD and ODD and I assure you it is not from a lack of parenting or love or structure. He's had plenty of everything since he was born. He has just always been a stubborn, opposing and VERY hyper child.
Structure and consistency are key. They need rules, need to know them and need to know the outcome should they not follow any rule. And it needs to happen every single time. Absolutely no deviation or they will try and play on it and you'll pay.
With ODD it's a misfire in the brain that gives them pleasure to p*ss people off, basically. Never ever rise to the bait or else they "win" and will keep going. It's the thrill of getting someone angry that feeds the ODD. Remain calm, do not feed into it, no matter how hard. State what they should do/what they did wrong, tell them it needs doing or the consequence per the rule they broke...and WALK AWAY.
ODD children are not afraid of authority like the average child so they will test anyone. The more you're around them, the more they will push, especially if they feel comfortable with you. If they know you won't take any b.s., they won't push as much. Yelling is also the worst thing to do...it only feeds their need to upset you even more.
Currently my BS15 is on meds for both. We have found that an anti-depressant or, more specifically, an SSRI anti-depressant helps with the ODD. SSRI = selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor. Basically it balances out the part of the brain that triggers the ODD. Behavior therapy and counceling help as well. Maturity also plays a part.
It does get better with time IF they are provided with constant structure and parenting and therapy. But I cannot lie, it is more than challenging to deal with! My own son even drives me to madness, let alone dealing with a skid who has it. Good luck to you, I hope your DH is a strong parent.
Thank you for the info. The
Thank you for the info. The doctor said at this time they do not have a reason for why ODD exists. I will ask them about the misfire that may be happening. He definitely has no fear of authority and loves to make others mad or hurt them.
I have disengaged and it worked well for me. It does not work for the poor kids at school he tortures or other family members. I just stood there looking like I don't care for months on end. Again, successful for me but everyone else was still paying.
I tell DH all the time NO DEVIATION but that is easier said than done for him.