College Frustration
I already know the response will be DISENGAGE lol.
For background, for those who don't know, I have an excellent relationship with skids and with BM1, and pretty good with BM2. This revolves around BM1 and SDstb17.
SD16 is a junior in high school with pretty good grades (mostly As and some Bs). She is a great kid. Respectful, kind, thoughtful, etc pretty much a dream skid. We talk on the phone, text etc when they are not with us. Her and I have a great relationship even without DH and BM.
I feel, however, that DH and BM are doing her a disservice with college. They both have their heads in the sand, in my opinion, and it is very unfair to SD.
I'm from Pennsylvania, and my parents from about age 10 prepared me financially for college. They told me from day 1 that they would pay for the cost of Penn State (in-state public university) and anything above that was on me. They had savings and I had savings. They also said that upon graduation, I was on my own. I could major in whatever I wanted, but it had to secure me a full time job that would pay for my rent, bills, etc as I would not be living with them. I ended up going to Temple University, which cost less than Penn State, and my parents paid for the whole thing. I got an excellent job right out of college and was making 6 figures by 25. I majored in Actuarial Science, for those wondering, and I am an international underwriter for a large insurance company. I do all the crazy stuff like military contracts in Afghanistan, missionaries in Haiti, Manufacturing in Brazil, Kidnap & extortion in Russia, etc.
SD16, meanwhile, seems to have no clue. DH and I have no money to contribute for college at the moment. DH has been unemployed for 15 months and counting and I have absolutely no extra after covering all the bills. I have also told DH for the last few years that we WILL NOT be co-signing on a loan for SD. We cannot afford to put our credit in jepoardy on a hope that she will pick a good major and be able to pay off her debt.
BM1 is a freelancer and makes very little money...my guess would be $30-40k per year. She mainly survives because she got a large chunk when DH and her divorced after 14 years (which was a downpayment on her house) and she gets around $2,500 in child support from DH. She is very frugal and reasonable, always giving us advance notice on any large expenses coming up to share for the girls, clips coupons, etc.
That being said, it doesn't appear that DH OR BM are guiding SD in looking for colleges in a practical manner. BM went to Mount Holyoke which starts at $45,000 per year, so no. SD said she wants to be in a city, and she toured a college or two while traveling this summer in NY, Chicago, and DC (all of which are out of state and extremely expensive). SD doesn't know what she wants to do....she thinks she wants to do something in government and possibly major in political science. She originally said lobbyist but I think I talked her out of that. She is NOT cut out to be a lobbyist. She is not very social, or cut throat, or vocal, etc.
I don't see her very often as she lives in another state, but a few times I've tried to have a practical conversation with her. I've brought up how she really needs to start looking seriously at in-state schools, especially public schools. She could get in-state tuition where DH and I live (PA) or where BM lives (NC). I texted BM about having her fly up in November to tour Temple and Drexel (both in a city, in state, and good schools) and she said she will check with SD and "see if she is interested"
I feel like no one seems to be preparing her for the real world. I am so thankful my parents sat me down and made me map out a "post-college' budget so I could see just how much I would need to be earning to live comfortably. I was considering majoring in music engineering (I'm a classical pianist) and that was a huge wake up call and I chose a University with a solid Actuarial Science program that, at the time, cost $11,000 per year (Temple U in-state).
She is flying up the weekend of Oct 29th for a visit and I hope to have that talk with her, show her my budget, etc. Maybe take her to see an apartment or two in Philadelphia and see just how expensive it is to have your own place.
How have you guys dealt with this? I feel like someone needs to prepare this girl for the real world and not prepare her COD style. When I talk to DH about this (I am very vocal) he is always like "I know, I know, I need to talk to BM" and that talk never seems to happen. It is not fair to SD to go into the college search process not knowing EXACTLY how much she has to spend (in college savings) and exactly how much she will have to take out in PERSONAL loans.
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Comments
Oh CB - this is not for you
Oh CB - this is not for you to resolve, it's entirely up to BM and DH and their finances, the only thing you can do is to talk to SD and try and teach her, get a scholar ship kiddo, study hard, there's other options as well..
but try and stay out of this, it could come back and bite you in the ass...
I know you are one of the few gals getting along with the SD, but this is a matter for parents, this way SD can never blame you and say... SM forced me, SM made sure I could not go, SM got the cat pregnant blablablabla
If you stay out of this and encourage SD to look into working day and go to night classes, paying for herself etc..
she can only say - Wow if it was not for this advice from SM I never would've done anything
Very good advice thanks! I
Very good advice thanks! I would just hate to see her graduate $200,000+ in debt and for what? The same education she could have gotten for $60,000?
I prepped Deigma for
I prepped Deigma for University his whole life lol.... what happened after he graduated from school, got a place in University... he said - Mum I'm not interested thanks, I had enough of books, I'm off working...
and that's exactly what her does now, and he's studying after hours, on line course.... something totally different he always wanted to be...
Just be there for SD, if she's not really sure, encourage her to work for a year, it's still possible for young people to wotk themselves up in companies and then you saved allot of money you can hand her cash for her first flat or car or wedding
I would definitely be willing
I would definitely be willing to offer this. However I also don't want her to "miss out" on the college experience of living in the dorms, meeting new people, etc. Temple is 45 minutes from my parents' house and I still lived in the dorms and in apartments junior and senior year and I'm so thankful I had the opportunity.
Drexel is significantly more expensive than Temple. Temple has improved greatly, but it is still in "the hood" which will probably terrify BM and SD lol
I presume you have confirmed
I presume you have confirmed that the in-state tuition cause a parent lives there is correct? In some states, it isn't. Residency follows the primary custody parent.
Have your husband compare in state tuition between the two states -- I think NC has a reputation for being more affordable than most.
If there is a big difference, encourage her to focus on just the cheapest state options.
Can you get her to share with her dad her actual GPA? Do you know if she took the PSAT in 10th grade or the ACT? If so, see if you can get the scores. Understanding her stats (at least at this point) will give you some sense about whether merit money is a possibility.
Are you familiar with the website college confidential? There is a great financial aid forum on that site. One common strategy there is to encourage kids to look at schools that will give big money for her stats. Keep in mind that there are some privates that over great money to low income students. Many of these schools, if the money is right, will be cheaper than even an in state option. But most of them are really hard to get into). Given your husband's unemployment, he has time to really delve.
Are mom and dad college graduates? If neither is, there are opportunities for first generation students as well.
I realize this is not exactly what you were asking for, but I work as a high school counselor and thought I would share. I agree that the talk needs to be had about affordability and whatever your H does, tell him not to let her put NYU on the list. Way to expensive and poor financial aid options.
I will tell you what I tell my students who want to go to school at _____ so they can live in _____. I tell them that college is only 4 years and then they can live whereever they want when they get a job.
She's better off hearing it
She's better off hearing it from her dad. She will ask him how on earth someone can make millions of dollars and not save a penny for his kids college. That is for him to explain.
Most of it went to child
Most of it went to child support and the mortgage. When he and BM2 divorced she took most of the savings that would have been her college fund.
The college fund went to BM2.
The college fund went to BM2. The SD is the child of BM1.
She should be looking to
She should be looking to minimize tuition.
Alabama has some GREAT scholarships for out of state students with top ACT/SAT scores. I'm sure there are other such opportunities out there too.
http://scholarships.ua.edu/types/out-of-state.php
Sounds like she can get into many good schools - but it's not likely that she will get a merit scholarship from one of the second tier schools that use them to attract students that can easily get into Stanford or Princeton.
Both DH and BM are college
Both DH and BM are college grads. BM went to Mount Holyoke likely for communications of some sort, She worked in publishing for some magaiznes in NYC and now she freelances and has her own editing/ghost writing company. BM's parents were insanely wealthy (once were part-owners of the Baltimore ravens, etc) so I'm pretty sure they paid for her college and supplemented her post-college life. Then she met and married DH who was doing very well.
DH is from the UK and went to King's College and has a bachelor and masters in mechanical engineering. In the UK college is basically free so he doesn't "get it" the same way I do.
College Confidential is a
College Confidential is a wonderful forum -- tell him to avoid the chance threads and other threads that are student generated. Focus on the parent thread and the financial aide thread and the college specific threads. He will learn so much so quickly. They also have (had?) a great resource library.
One thing I would really encourage in this situation is for him to have a discussion with his ex. They need to be on the same plain of understanding and if she went to Mt. Holyoke, she obviously is bright. She may have already figured some of this out. He needs to know where his ex's head is. I know that many of the top privates communicate alot about college planning to their alumni.
You mentioned that BM's parents were insanely wealthy? Are they still living? If so, are you certain they don't plan to pay for kids' college?
One last question, does his divorce decree mention college?
BMs parents aren't very
BMs parents aren't very wealthy anymore. I don't know all the details but I know some companies the dad was invested in tanked, he got laid off. I think they are doing just fine, but not filthy rich. They may have some sort of college fund. I asked SD and she didn't know,
He doesn't think the decree mentions college, and BM has never mentioned it. Neither he nor BM have a copy of the decree...they both have lost if after moves. Truth be told, they never needed it. They solve everything just by talking, organize visitation, holidays, etc. He has been trying for about 1.5 years to get a copy from the state of Texas and has been unsuccessful. Even I have tried! We have paid about $200 in credit card fees and they just send a certificate showing they are divorced and no decree. No one picks up the phone, no one answers emails or voicemails. See: my other posts about the impossibility of getting an answer on a reduction in child support so now we have to go through a lawyer
Charlotte He needs to take
Charlotte
He needs to take this time to really start to read up and understand college in America. Also, in some states the community college to 4 year college is a well respected path. Not sure about NC.
Again, I think he needs to speak to his EX. Junior year is an important one for test taking (SAT, ACT) and college planning.
Is she involved in stuff outside of classes?
He did used to make a lot of
He did used to make a lot of money, most of it in stock options that couldn't be sold for quite a few years. After child support (total to $5,400) visiting SSs in Texas (approx $1,000 per month) Mortgage, utilities, car payment, etc we actually weren't left with much of the cash portion of his monthly paycheck. DH had quite a bit of savings which BM2 took then they divorced ($150,000) which was SDs college fund. We have savings now, thankfully since DH is unemployed, but it is dwindling. He is paying the $5,400 a month in child support out of this savings, which is also his retirement savings. In our current situation, we cannot contribute for college. Once DH has a job, we can reconsider but it still won't be a full ride, maybe a few thousand per year.
The 600K was an "all in" figure. His month to month paycheck was based off of around $250,000. Yes, it seems like a lot, but when you have the above obligations it goes very very quickly.
Fortunately, after research done before we were married, BM1 has custody in another state so she would be the parent income for the FAFSA. Our understanding is only BM's income will be considered. Dh's is $0 anyway, and we don't have combined finances.
Federal it is not limited.
Federal it is not limited. Every kid who fills out a FAFSA will qualify for Federal student loans.
Nope - direct federal loans
Nope - direct federal loans are available to all. The amount is limited by academic year. Freshman get $5500 and it increases every year.
The amount available does not change with income. And, it is not limited to 5-6K per year.
Freshman year - $5500
Sophomore year - $6500
Junior and Senior year - $7500
The schools you are talking about use institutional loans, not federal direct loans.
Charlotte I could have
Charlotte I could have written this blog a few years ago. I actually did, check out my archives and the saga with SS19 and his BM.
Here is my advice:
- sit your DH down and make sure he knows you will not be contributing and you refuse to let him consign loans. Consigning loans was an absolute deal breaker for me. Then ask him to figure out what he can reasonably contribute toward college. Is he re employed yet?
- SD should look at fafsa only schools. Basically these schools only require the fafsa application which only takes into account the custodial parents income. So your income and even DHs would not be counted. This is your SDs best chance for getting aid. It's mostly state schools, but UNC is an excellent school.
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Not sure. You'd have to
Not sure. You'd have to check the rules at the individual colleges.
I am sorry that you are going
I am sorry that you are going through this because it is very difficult to watch stupid and do nothing. I normally probably wouldn't suggest this but because you do get along with your SD this is what I would do in your shoes...
I would sit down with SD (or driving or whatever is a comfortable way to talk to her) and I would ask her what her plans are. What do you want to major in? Have you looked into any schools that have a good program in that? What does your guidance councilor say? I think that is the key to steer the conversation towards finances. Then, I would experience share, I would tell her how your parents helped you and say SD, between your parents and guidance councilors I'm sure you have a lot of help and advice but as someone who has been through it all, I am here for you too and leave it to her to come to you. If she does, great, if she doesn't, you at least put the ball in her court.
It breaks my heart that DH hasn't saved a penny for his kids. I know he has child support and everything, but it's not like he can't afford $10/paycheck. A few years ago when finances were shared, I opened savings accounts for them when DH and I got our year end bonuses. The last statement I saw was a few months ago but they had $0.11 and $0.12 in them. I'm sure I will hear how I love and favor my kids more when they have money for college and his do not.
Disagree with anyone who says
Disagree with anyone who says to let this lie, or let the parents figure it out. If you do that, SD will get her heart set on whatever school, apply early decision, get in and then your DH and BM will be shocked at how much it costs. Then there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth and all of a sudden talk of cosigning loans and you contributing and...
Sorry, your story just gives me PTSD. My best advice is to work this all out with DH now. Make sure he understands your position. I wouldn't talk to SD about it, that's up to him. But as the only person with a good head on your shoulders you need to get out ahead of this. Good luck!
I hear your PTSD I've been
I hear your PTSD
I've been reading about your problems for about 2 years
*heart*
I also have an SD16 who is
I also have an SD16 who is looking at colleges and we are in a similar situation. SD will likely not get any federal grants because DH and BM make too much money. Unfortunately, BM is terrible with saving money and DH was also terrible at saving until he met me. He saves now, but we made an agreement that he won't be helping the skids out with their college loans. He'll probably help them out with a couple hundred a month for expenses when they are in college, but he won't be footing the bill because he needs to save for retirement which he hadn't before he met me. He wants to retire at a certain age with me, so he can't help the kids out. It's his choice and he's choosing retirement over the kids' college. I also told him about my fears of him co-signing a loan. Although SD is very responsible, SS12 is not and we don't expect him to be, and if he co-signs for her, he'll eventually have to co-sign for him.
SD knows that DH won't pay for school and she is upset and nervous about paying for school herself (she reminds us constantly - it's annoying), but she is preparing herself to get scholarships and she is looking at state schools. I think it's important that your DH tell her the reality of the situation. After he tells her, you can soften the blow by giving her suggestions, but it's really on the parents, imo.
My SD has a good relationship with me, and I am with her a lot, so she has lots of opportunities to ask questions and seek advice. You seem to have a close relationship, and your SD sees how successful you are. You should let her come to you for advice on this, rather than you force it on her.
CBCharlotte, parts of your
CBCharlotte, parts of your story remind me of my situation. DH is older than me and has seen his job opportunities dwindle over the last few years as he heads towards 60. He's working again now after a year of unemployment but getting less than half of what he used to make. Like you I work with numbers and my earnings are enough to cover the household expenses (Luckily, child support ended in the summer when MSS graduated from University - MSS had to take out loans but NOT countersigned by DH).
You need to sit your DH down and make him see reality. He can't afford to pay for his kid's university costs. He is going to have to accept that he may never get as high paying job ever again. Also he needs to be concentrating on planning for retirement if he doesn't want to live out his old age in poverty. Heck, he can't afford the child support he's currently on the hook for.
Listen to Wokeupabug too. She's been through this (and continues to have to put up with nonsense about college costs and loans)
Your posts make you sound like a very nice, generous person. Please don't let anyone take advantage of your good nature and push you into covering college costs.