Liar liar, Tall Boy Pants on Fire
Well my house is on Defcon 4.
Yesterday I printed up our phone records and presented the evidence to DW. SS lied about calling his friends to get together for the group project on Monday (which was a ped day). This means he lied to his father too as SS is supposed to be with him on ped days.
DW – true to form – believed SS when he said he didn’t use his cell to text his friends but this new “chat app”.
I took DW aside and I told her - without mincing any words - that her son is big fat liar and that everything he mentions about school is a lie. In fact, if his mouth is moving and words are coming out; LIES! I also said that the fact that SS has DW snowed disgusts me and makes me worry about her capacity to parent him properly.
DW’s jaw dropped. This was a verbal slap in the face but it was also a big wake up call.
DW marched into SS’s room and asked to see the chat app logs so that she can prove to me that SS wasn’t lying.
Surprise, surprise, SS said deleted the app. Ergo, he has no proof.
That’s when I chime in.
“It’s bad enough that you are already doing badly in school and are lying about it but NOW you are using your mother to perpetuate your lies. She wrote a note to your teacher stating that your project partners ditched you but that isn’t true is it!?” I challenged.
SS wouldn’t respond to me.
“Answer Drac0!” DW says. “Show him proof because Drac0 and I keep arguing over this!”
“I’m not lying…”SS says meekly.
“YES! YOU! ARE!” I barked.
“What is the name of this chat app?” DW asked.
“Uh…I don’t remember.”
“Why would you download a new chat app to text your friends about meeting up and then delete the chat app?” DW asked
“‘Cuz it wasn’t working.”
Nice try SS. Every single time you needed to download an app you run to your mother to help you. Saying "the dog ate my cell app" would have been more believeable.
“You are not making any sense!” DW stated and I can sense now that she was now fully on-board. “You were more interested in spending all day Monday playing on your PS3!”
“You’ve been lying about EVERYTHING concerning your school work since DAY ONE!” I chimed in again. “Enjoy your toys and your electronic gadgets SS, because when your report card comes in two weeks and it shows us all what I have been warning everyone about, I am going to make your life A LIVING HELL!!!”
I then walked out.
Commence the water works. SS tried to put on the “poor widdle child of CPD” routine with DW. DW – to her credit – didn’t buy it.
“I believed you SS! I stuck my neck out for you. But you need to show me something - ANYTHING - that proves you did everything you said you were going to do about this project!”
SS had nothing to show. All he said was that the teacher allowed him and his group to hand in the project late.
“Great! Then we can expect to see a good grade on this right?”
*silence*
SS cried and cried all evening. We ignored him. He also didn’t come to the dinner table when called.
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Comments
Sorry. I missed that. To
Sorry. I missed that.
To answer the question; nope, there is nothing. No notes, no rought draft. NOTHING!
HAHA Watch them squirm when
HAHA Watch them squirm when caught in a lie
Oh I am beyond confiscating
Oh I am beyond confiscating *just* the electronics.
Are you familiar with Maslow's hierarchy of needs? I am planning on removing anything and everything that gives him an iota of pleasure. The only thing he gets are the necessities to satisfy the first tier.
If DH and the troll did THIS
If DH and the troll did THIS with SD14, maybe she wouldn't be doing the crap she does. But NO! She just has to be allowed her makeup, new clothes every week, jewelry, etc. So aggravating!
*sigh* tall boy will have to
*sigh* tall boy will have to learn, one way or the other.
glad your dw is stepping up to the plate.
Let me try to explain this as
Let me try to explain this as logically as I can.
Given the fact that there is NO evidence that SS did what he said he was going to do, I stated to DW that he was lying.
DW still thinks that "SS's word" is good enough. It is not.
Especially when SS made DW write that note to his teacher. If it were me, I would want "proof" that my kid did everything he could to get his work done. Hell, my boss, who is also my friend, would require that from me before I ask that things be escalated to his level. He won't just take my word for it.
Ok...so if your DW is
Ok...so if your DW is anything like my DH...and I think they are A LOT alike...in a day or two your DW will say something stupid like..."well, I can't PROVE that he is lying" Or "well he is doing the project now so he does not need a punishment".
DW is also playing "good cop/
DW is also playing "good cop/ bad cop" Notice she used Drac0 as the "stick." She still wants to be the "fun" parent and hope against all hopes that the tall one will somehow turn out for the better.
Same philosophy with Chef and the Girhippo. Chef has actually said "kids will turn out the way they turn out." Meaning that parenting has zero influence on the child. BALONEY! Parenting has ALL the influence in the world. Just another excuse for LAP (lazy ass parenting)
It will be WAAAAAAY too late when DW finally realizes her poopsiekins is a budding felon.
Of course this action on DW's part is to:
placate Drac0 for the moment
use Drac0 as the "mean ol' disciplinarian"
As others have stated she has not "gotten it" still despite Drac0 thinking that she has seen a glimmer of light. This kids is gonna fail out no matter what then blame it on Drac0. T minus 5 and counting to disengagement time.
Don't give him two weeks
Don't give him two weeks until report cards come out. You already have enough proof (your GUT) that he hasn't been doing jack. Take everything NOW, and in two weeks IF he has all As and Bs, he will get his things back. If he has bad grades he can go another two weeks until grades for assignments start posting again.
I did this with SD13 last summer when she was giving me trouble. I took all gadgets, right down to the keyboard for the desktop computer, to MY OFFICE and kept them there. DH talked me into 10 days instead of two weeks of punishment, but SD13 got the message!
Do it NOW! He's had plenty of chances and you are RIGHT, you KNOW you are. His grades suck!
~ Moon
I'd just butt out entirely
I'd just butt out entirely and let her manage him. Maybe then she will stop colluding with him against you.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This...I disengaged early on but DH was a terrible parent the more I pushed him. He thought I was being mean about poor SS so DH acted like he had to be SS's biggest fan. When I backed off, he was A LITTLE more attentive to SS being a jerk.
I bet your wife would step up more if you stepped out of this. IMHO...she does a lot of what she does because she is trying protect SS from you. I know that sounds stupid but I bet that is how she feels.
I agree with Willow on this
I agree with Willow on this one. You are creating an "us vs. them" situation and the "us" will be DW and SS. IMHO, I would back off and make it squarely your wife's problem.
Except SS used DW like a door
Except SS used DW like a door mat. It's not about school anymore. It's about using people. That's a big No-no in my book. DW stuck her neck out for him by writing that note for the teacher based on SS's lies. I think that is what made DW "wake up" this time around. Last time I did something like that to my Mother (I was 9 at the time), my mother wouldn't speak to me for 6 months. It was a harsh lesson. The person that is supposed to love you "no-matter-what" wouldn't even look at me or give me the time of day.
Yesterday was the first time DW came down on him and didn't try to console him once the water-works started. She was disgusted with him too.
Yes, agree with broken.lost.
Yes, agree with broken.lost. Sorry Draco, but I wouldn't count on your wife's "waking up" to last for any significant amount of time.
Too often I see someone on this board who says they think their spouse "finally gets it" - only to see that exact same person back less than a week later with a fresh story involving more skid problems and more head-in-the-sand behavior from their spouse.
> I wouldn't count on your
> I wouldn't count on your wife's "waking up" to last for any significant amount of time<
Nor do I. This is why I love "Amber's" analogy of holding a ship's steering wheel against the storm. DW WILL relapse. On this I have no doubt, and I will be there to remind her that SS has been manipulating her with his crocodile tears and "poor COD" routine since the beginning. That is my job; to remind her and remind her again if need be. This kid is an idiot but when it comes to manipulating his Mom, he holds all the aces and he freakin' knows it. I don't expect DW to suddenly "snap awake" and realize that she was being snowed. I know that it's a process that takes time. She has come a long way since I first met her. When I first met her, SS didn't have a single shred of table manners and would waste entire meals only to ask for cookies and ice cream ten minutes later and DW allowed it. Not anymore but it took persistence and constant reminding on my part.
"This is why I love "Amber's"
"This is why I love "Amber's" analogy of holding a ship's steering wheel against the storm."
Draco, I think I remember saying this, am I the "Amber" you're talking about?
Yes! I can't remember now if
Yes! I can't remember now if you said it to me in a PM or on a comment. Appologies if my paraphrasing is off.
No, problem, I can't remember
No, problem, I can't remember exactly what I said anyway. But you know I told you that quite some time ago. At this point I don't know if you should "stay the course" or abandon ship. And when I say abandon ship, I mean disengage and stop trying to parent SS.
I know you feel if you just keep at this, DW will eventually turn course and steer SS the right way. But the thing is, SS is 15 now. It is very, very likely that his steering wheel is broken. SS is so set in his ways now, even if DW does change how she parents him, the damage has already been done.
You can grab the wheel and try to turn things around, but I'm afraid your hands will only get bloody and full of splinters, and the ship is still going to run aground.
Now, what's the solution to this predicament? Sorry, buddy, I sure don't know.
A sad predicament to be sure
A sad predicament to be sure (and thank you for carrying the analogy forward in such vivid detail).
My feelings on the current situation aside, I too believe that if things do not change and if DW and I just continue doing what we are doing - which is - threatening doom and gloom when we are not butting heads, things won't change. I have repeatedly said that SS needs both help (tutoring) and some strong discipline (no electronics until grades improve significantly) in order for things to turn around.
You are right. At 15, SS may very well be beyond hope, but if this ship is destined to sink I would rather it sink knowing I did everything I could to keep it on course rather than just give up. Blood and splinters don't bother me.
That's the whole reason why I am still engaged (despite the protestations of many STalkers). I DO NOT WANT to throw SS out of the house while saying to myself "I knew this day was coming, but I didn't do anything". I would rather throw him out and say "Well at least I *TRIED* to do something."
I admire your commitment, but
I admire your commitment, but if you're going to "go down with the ship", don't try to do "something", do EVERYTHING you can.
Heck, in for a penny, in for a pound. If you're going to continue this, you need to give it everything you got, otherwise, you might as well not give any effort.
My BD is 16, and I reached my breaking point on something as well. She has been half a$$ing the dishes for a long time now, and I finally got fed up. I took away her iphone. Yes, I'm a mean momma. I took away her iphone and got her a prepaid phone that she can only text and talk on. I'm not even going to THINK about getting her another an iphone until she has done the dishes correctly and consistently for TWO MONTHS.
You know the answer - SS needs tutoring and no electronics until his grades improve significantly. So you take charge, you sign SS up for tutoring. You pay for it. Look at it as a long term investment towards an independent SS out of your home.
You take away his electronics. Oh, sure, DW will cry and pout, SS will cry and pout, but they'll both come around eventually. And sure, DonkeyKong will not enforce the rules when SS is at his house, but you can enforce what happens in your house.
And don't worry about what DW will do, or that she won't back you up. If I could be quite honest, sometimes I think you cave into her the same way she caves into SS. If you stand up to her, and enforce the rules, she may be upset and pout, but eventually she's going to respect you for putting your foot down. I'm not saying be a jerk to her and SS, I'm saying put your foot down and say "this is what is going to happen in this house." And lock the electronics up where neither she nor SS can get to them.
Right now I feel you are only giving it half your effort, and if you want to turn things around it's going to take ALL of your effort and then some. So if you're in, go all the way in. You can get bloody hands and the ship runs aground, or you can break your back pulling back on that sail and the ship gets off to sea.
That's sorta why I said my
That's sorta why I said my household situation is on DEFCON 4. I know if I do what needs to be done, both BD and DW are going to cry and pout.
You are partially correct. Yes, I do not wish to upset DW, but I know I will have to. One class project does not give me the whole picture of how SS is doing in school. For that, I need to see SS's report card which is coming in two weeks. When it comes and the results clearly show that SS is slacking off/fooling around/not studying, I plan to enter his bedroom and go super nova. I will confiscate/destroy everything in my path; Ipad, PS3, cell phones, skate boards, the fish tank, etc....even the paint on the walls. Once I am done, he will have nothing but a mattress and a box of pink-colored clothes.
You can only help DW become
You can only help DW become what she actually WANTS to become. She doesn't really want to be a good parent to SS, she wants to be a 'friend' to SS. So these moments you are calling clarity, she's calling confusion.
IMHO..I think you will end up
IMHO..I think you will end up divorced or SS will go live with DK if you take ambers approach.
You know I think you should disengage. It worked so good for my situation.
But I realize you will not do that. Maybe if DW keeps on realizing that SS is a turd, you can take control by guiding HER to be a better parent. I am afraid that this is going to explode on you if you put the hammer down on SS.
Maybe you can talk her into REALLY letting you guide her where SS is concerned. I don't know...have you tried any counseling with her? Some type of family counseling.
Thanks for the head's up. I'm
Thanks for the head's up. I'm actualy planing on replacing his phone with an antiquated flip-phone if this cr*p continues
I'll ask the maybe too easy
I'll ask the maybe too easy question...why didn't the kid just do the assignment minus the other kids? Group assignment or not. A self project meant to have been a group assignment turned in is far better than nothing turned in.
Instead of sitting on his duff playing PS3 all day (or whatever SS was doing) he could have been working on and completing this project on his own. If there actually were a section or two that he could not have done (because only this or that 'other kid' had that info) than a completed assignment on the parts truly only assigned to SS for the project would have been more acceptable to the teacher that SS tried and put effort and seriousness into the project to the best of his limited ability.
What happens instead? Kiddo not only doesn't even attempt to do any part of the assignment he gets his Mommy to toss the entire group under the bus (whether they deserved it or not) to try and save his lying lazy ass who did nothing at all. Nothing....sad. This incident should have never even came down to Draco running around with printed out phone records or DW stomping into bedroom after the fact to demand seeing this ridiculous app speak. Kids ass should have seen busily at least attempting to self do the project that entire day.
The director of my department
The director of my department (and the guy who originally hired me and gave my first shot here) told me a similar story about his own son. He even said he was close to selling him into slavery because he was sooooooo fed up with him. Lazy, lying, no initiative....Then, one day, at around 15, the kid walks up to his parents and said "Mom, Dad, I want to become a fireman". At first the kid's father chalked it up to a short-lived fantasy.
His son is in his 20s now. Not only is he a fireman but he is a spokesperson to. Apparently he is so good looking, he gets printed in those "Firemen calendars" that they sell every year.
He was in a busy supermarket selling them and some guy walks up to him and asks "How much for these calendars?"
"$20" he says.
The guy reaches into his wallet and says "If I give you $200, will you go away? I don't want my wife to see you."