my daughters
my ex wife and i divorced when my daughters were 9 and 2. my ex is engaged, her fiance is nice and my older daughter gets along with him. the younger one does too because she follows the older one whatever she does. but the older one hates my wife. my older daughter is 14. she was always a good child,wasn't spoiled, didn't ask for much, was respectful..and this is why her attitude in this situation surprised me. in communication with my wife, she is respectful. yes, cold and sometimes harsh, but respectful. she first asked me to see me alone, and i said that some time with me alone is good, but i can't leave my wife for a full week. then my daughter said she will only see me when she can see me alone. i didnt want to allow that, so she stopped coming over all together. now we see eachother twice a week, which is not enough. and when we do see eachother shes cold as ice. 2 hours in a restaourant twice a week are not enough for a parent and child. my daughter said that basically makes me an uncle, not father figure,and i have to agree because thats reality. but i HATE that. first of all, shes my daughter. i WANT to be a real father. my father was around once a week and that wasnt good. but also i want to be a husband to my wife. and a husband doesnt go away for a few days if its not neccessary.
except that im losing the older daughter, im losing the younger one,7yrs old. she does everything that her sister does,so if i try to pick her up alone, she screams and cries. her mother tried getting her into the car,but she jumps out and bangs on her mom's door until she lets her in. basically she wont do ANYTHING that her older sister doesn't approve of.
i dont want to lose my children,but i cant disrespect my wife either.
whats your advice?
and i cant just let her "come around" because thats not really gonna happen. since i didnt let her use me for money only like many parents do, thats not gonna bring her back..and shes very stubborn,when she breaks a relationship she really does. she broke it with an aunt two years ago and never "came around".
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Have you tried family
Have you tried family counseling. It sounds like your daughter needs to be told that she is still a kid and she doesn't get to choose who her parents are and who they marry. Maybe a 3rd party can help facilitate this.
Has your daughter always
Has your daughter always "hated" your wife? If not, what changed to cause the hatred?
BSgoinon, i told her that she
BSgoinon, i told her that she cant choose a wife for me just like i cant choose a husband for her.. and she said "im not even trying to choose for you, im just saying that if things stay this way, i dont want a relationship with you".
i think shes being manipulative, well im sure she is, but shes also decided on this.
family counseling isnt really common in our country, and actually there isnt a family conunselor in our town. there are only those for planning parenthood - basically for pregnant minors. maybe we could go to the capital once a week but i dont think i could get my daughter for that. she knows shes a kid and she doesnt get to choose..but she gets to break our relationship unfortunately.
daizyduke, in the beggining she just disliked her,but the more time they spent together, my daughter says it grew to hate because my wife is as my daughter says "intolerable". in fact my wife is a very nice woman and i dont see whats so hard to tolerate but my daughter has her own perspective.. a weird one though.
I agree type dd needs to be
I agree type dd needs to be told that she doesn't get to choose who you marry and she doesn't get to choose to not come over and to see you alone. She is a child and has no choice. You are giving her way too much power and this is the result.
She doesn't have to love or like your wife and neither does your wife have to love nor like your dd as long as they are respectful is all you can ask. You are giving her way too much power by allowing her to see you without your wife and only 2 times a week. If you want more time with your dd you have to change it and make her come over. She will have to get over you marrying your wife. It is not her life, it is yours. Your dd will grow up and have a life of her own one day and your wife will always be there.
cheriwilson, she says that my
cheriwilson, she says that my wife is "stupid", "annoying", "whiny", "conceited", etc. basically she considers her a bad person but she is definitely not.
purple, i told her that she doesnt get to choose who i marry. she knows that.
but she can choose not to see me, and especially not my wife. she has a choice,shes 14. and even the 7 year old might have a say. they listened to my friend's 8 year old so i guess theyd listen to the 7 year old too.
i cant make her come over. how could i even do that.
and even if i did make her,shed just make it hell. but i cant do it anyway.
Why can't you make her?
Why can't you make her? You're the parent and she's the child. She has to do what you say because you're the parent and she's the child.
She doesn't get to make it hell in home, because you're the parent and she's the child.
If she tries to make it hell, you punish her because you're the parent and she's the child.
This kid has too much damn power.
well if she refuses to come
well if she refuses to come over, how do i make her?
You make her butt in get in
You make her butt in get in the car!! :? She's a child. She has to do what you and her mom tell her to do or she deals with the consequences. This is all parenting 101. You are the one in charge not her.
How did she even reach the point where she would dare to refuse to do what you tell her????
I truly can't wrap my mind around this as a parent or a child. If I had refused to do something my mom or stepdad told me to do, they would have beat my ass. It would have never crossed my son's mind to refuse to do what his dad, stepmom or I told him to do.
and even if i did make
and even if i did make her,shed just make it hell.
__________________________________________________________
^^^^Yup, that's what SD14 did to us. Epic failure to force her. When they get to this age, they get NASTY and that's what SD14 is.
yeah, HOW do i make
yeah, HOW do i make her?
unless i phsyically drag her in and lock her inside, i dont see another way.
dare to refuse? she dares to because she doesnt want to come over. im her father, not a dictator.
well i cant ORDER her to come to my house. 1. i'd have to physically force her 2. that just be HELL.
It's good. they get
It's good. they get along.
she likes him, she says that he's an interesting, ''cool'' guy ad they have common interests so she can have fun with him and they get along. she says hes like a buddy. she says hes pleasant to be around, funny, relaxed, etc.. and she says my wife is the exact opposite.
and he really is a nice man, ive met him a few times and hes great. reminds me of my cousin that i grew up with. but my wife is also great, yet my daughter doesnt see that.
She can't forgive an aunt,
She can't forgive an aunt, yes. and we tried to make their relationship better but my daughter refuses to have anything to do with her aunt now.
she refuses to see me because she ''hates'' my wife.
i guess she WAS given much power, but that doesnt reflect on her life outside our family. she has friends, she had her teen problems and good times, sucks it up sometimes and blows up sometimes, deals with things when she has to.. its just not a problem outside family. her life is good and her relationships function alright except for this with my wife and i.
^^^^THIS. DH and I are going
^^^^THIS.
DH and I are going through this now with SD14. Same age. Her mother has alienated her against us and she refused to come over. We forced her back in October and that was an epic disaster. She ended up lying MORE to her mother about us so that she would fight for custody of her and she wouldn't have to come over anymore.
Well guess what happened? Exactly that. At 14, if you force her, she's just going to fight it more and more and resentment builds for everyone involved. SD now lives with BM full time and although DH has visitation with SD, he's choosing not to force the issue. SD is being placed back in therapy (which I think is bullshit because she lied her way through it before for attention and sympathy) and once she and the therapist decide the time is right, her visitation with DH will resume. No one is holding their breath however.
I'm sorry you're going through this. My experience is if you force them, they only get worse. Her lying is so bad now that DH and I are afraid to be in the same room alone with her for fear of what she'll say we've done to her. She said to her mother and mother's attorney that I called her fat and now she's bulimic!!!
If I were you, I'd call my daughter, let her know that I realize things are not ideal right now and I respect her wishes to stay away FOR NOW. I would not see her on HER terms alone however. She has been given way too much power (Just like SD was) and she's using her love and time against you now by withholding it.
My DH still texts SD once a week or so just to say he loves and misses her and he'll always be a part of her life. I can see her smirking and thinking she's got just oh so much control every time she ignores or deletes his texts...because that's who she is.
I wish you the best. Forcing her may just not be the answer though. I know for a fact that when I'm forced to be somewhere I don't want to be, I do my best to avoid ever being put in that position again.
thank you. how is your
thank you.
how is your husband dealing with their broken relationship?
Tom, he's MUCH better now
Tom, he's MUCH better now that things are "settled" between them. He's hurt over it all, sure. But he is at peace now knowing that even though at this time in their lives they're not speaking or seeing each other, she knows he'll always be there for her and she'll eventually come around.
He was given kudos by BM's attorney for the mature way in which he was handling this. Her attorney said he obviously wanted what was best for his daughter, didn't want to force her to be somewhere she doesn't want to be and had her best interests at heart. He said he's seen a lot of cases like this where one parent is the "friend" and the other is the parent. The kids naturally gravitate toward the "fun" parent, because they're allowed to do a lot more and get away with a lot more. Makes perfect sense to me.
Anyhow, he talks about her from time to time but it's usually with a smile instead of tears. He's a VERY sensitive guy and a very kind hearted person.
Me? As the wife witnessing all that she's done to try and split us up, to come between us, to hurt and lie about me and her father? I'm PISSED. Had my DH continue to force her after the time in October, I'd likely not have remained in the house. It was downright miserable for us all and she made it very clear that because he forced her to be there, she was going to make our lives Hell.
You are still giving her too
You are still giving her too much power by allowing her to only see you 2x a week without your wife. You need to tell her then 'ok that is your choice to not come over but I will not see you alone like you want. My wife is here to stay and my choice is to not let you exclude my wife'. Which what you are doing by allowing you dd to exclude your wife 2x a week. That is not good parenting as you are giving your dd adult status by entertaining this idea that she gets to choose to exclude your wife.
I don't know how else to say this other than to tell her that the situation is not going to change and if she wants a relationship with you then you will not allow her to disrepect your wife by allowing her to exclude your wife. What you and your dd are doing is wrong and you know that or you wouldn't be here asking for advice.
Well she wants alone time
Well she wants alone time with me and I think it's ok that a child has alone time with a parent without their partner. twice a week would be good but i want her to be with me and my wife the rest of the week..but she refuses that. she goes out with her mom twice a week alone. but she spends time with her mom and stepfather the rest of the time. but she doesnt want to do so with my wife.
she says she doesnt want a relationship me if things dont change.
i know this is wrong and im asking for advice because i dont know what to do. i want to have my daughter half of the time and she doesnt want to because she hates my wife and i refuse to leave my wife for a week because my dd wants me to.
exwife and i live in the same
exwife and i live in the same town so she can see friends at our house too. i allow her to go out.
i won't give up - so i'm asking on how to fix this.
You might not be able to make
You might not be able to make your 14 year old visit but you certainly can make the younger one. I agree with everyone on this board, you gave her way too much power and now it's time to take it back.
SInce she wants no relationship, you make sure she is fully aware that means no birthday gifts, no Xmas gifts, nothing.
Shower the younger with everything, that might make her regret being a little manipulating witch.
She probably likes the Stepdad because he lets her do whatever she wants. That's how teenagers think, the FUN parent is usually the one that ISN'T actually parenting at all.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^agree 100%
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^agree 100%
well i cant really make the
well i cant really make the younger one either.
she keeps screaming crying and trying to go to her sister.
if she did the scene in court,theyd listen to her. if she said she doesnt want to,theyd listen to her.
my friend has a 8 year old who expressed she feels "terrible" at her father's house and the judge figured the kid's feelings matter so they took time away from her father and gave her mom extra days because the kid wanted that.
i can only make her if the judge says i can,and the judge wont make her come over if she screams and cries no when i try to pick her up.
yeah shes aware.
the younger one wont do anything her older sister doesn't - so that includes gifts. if i try to buy her something, even little thing like icecream, she wants to get one for her sister or she doesnt want it either.
and she wouldn't regret it anyways since she gets enough stuff from family. and.. i'd ask you not to call her a "witch". i know this is very annoying behaviour but please,she's still my daughter.
the stepdad can't let her or not let her do things-he doesn't parent at all and he shouldn't.
her mother has rules and parents her, shes even more strict than i am. she doesnt let her do whatever she wants.
Tom you still aren't getting
Tom you still aren't getting it. Nothing we say is going to matter as you have it in your head that your this situation isn't as bad as it seems. You are the one who us allowing all this nonsense from your dd and you are the one that can stop it. You are the adult and she us the child. I agree that kids should get alone time but natually and not a set type thing like you have with your dd. Mainly as this is your dd's way of excluding your wife and you are allowing it. You need to put your foot down but if you don't want to fine but I will tell you that in time your wife will some how get blamed for this and she has nothing to do with. And your wife will come to resent you for allowing this to continue. Your dd needs a father not a friend.
yeah but when i put my foot
yeah but when i put my foot down - what do i say? you HAVE to come over? or my wife HAS to be with us when we go out?
shell just stop seeing me.
She wants me to deal with
She wants me to deal with this and take care of it, but not let my daughter do anything out of spite.
And just exactly how does she
And just exactly how does she propose you do this?
She doesn't know. she doesn't
She doesn't know. she doesn't have kids and never had to deal with teens.
We are. She tried to get dd
We are. She tried to get dd to come, but she just refuses to. Then she tried to get at least the 7 year old to, but my daughter runs away from me, and bangs on her mother's door until she opens.
Tom your dd is doing all of
Tom your dd is doing all of this out of spite. She wants you to do what she wants you to do and you are. By allowing her to exclude your wife you are still giving a child more power then she needs and she feels that she is saying to your wife ha I got my way. I know what I'm talking about. I raised 2 kids and I have 3 step sons and I've seen it all been there done that. Can't you see how your dd is trying to say to your wife that she is above your wife and she gets to put your wife in the back and pretend she doesn't exist? With your dd saying unless the situation changes then she doesn't want anything to do with you is an ultimatum and you are entertaining it on a smaller level by seeing her without your wife. Can't you see that she is manipulating you and the whole situation by allowing this to continue.
Well what do i do? refuse
Well what do i do? refuse "alone time"? every child should have that with a parent.
i think she should come to our house too, yeah. but it doesnt mean we should never spend time without my wife.
id let her be alone with her kids as well if she had them.
But.. don't be afraid of her
But.. don't be afraid of her not seeing you. You keep showing up to pick her up. She'll come along.
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Not if she's anything like my SD14.
Yes a court. They will uphold
Yes a court.
They will uphold her refusal.
I wrote a comment here, it happened to my friend. And the kid was only 8.
Imagine what would happen with a 14 year old.
Well my daughter refuses to come over like that. Of course that we wouldn't be all home at the same time but she doesn't want to.
She won't come along. She doesn't come along unless it's good for her interests.
And her interest in this is getting HER way which i dont want to allow.
well, it seems to me you
well, it seems to me you daughter doesn't appreciate the 2 days a week anyway and is still pressuring you into hurting your wife, so i'm with the others: tell your daughter that you love her and you will be here for her when she is ready to continue having a relationship with you without dictating the terms and let it go. i would continue sending bday cards and christmas cards (minus $$ and gifts) just to let her know you are still thinking of her. you will have to tell the youngest a more simplified version like you miss her and to let you know when she would like to visit and basically do the same thing. i'm sorry you are going through this. you should never lose a family member because you chose to re-marry and it sounds like your daughter would have reacted like this to ANYONE you married because there is just no good reason for this. sounds purely selfish and you should refuse to hurt your wife further over this. they may come around, they may not. other than staying married to their mother or remained single, there's nothing you could have done different.
^^^THIS
^^^THIS
but i can't accept "maybe
but i can't accept "maybe yes, maybe no"..theyre my kids, i cant just let it wait around until they feel like coming or no.
You may have no choice than
You may have no choice than to accept that you'll have to wait around till they're ready.
and remind her each and every
and remind her each and every time that her manipulative behaviour is a huge disappointment, that she hurts you each and every time but that you love her and you love your wife and that its unfair for her to act like this...
She needs to KNOW that you KNOW she is being manipulative and a bitch. Because that is what she is, she is old enough to play the game, she is old enough to be told that you are not stupid, you know its a game and that despite her little game, this is it, this is her choice to have a twice a week 2 hours with her Daddy when she could have so much more.
i really want my dd to be
i really want my dd to be warm and sweet.
honestly she isnt bad except in this situation.
with that aunt, she had a reason to cut off, it wasnt just to be mean. it was bad, but it also could be forgiven.
but she just got hurt. i get that.
but i dont want to ruin our relationship,or let her ruin it.
Tom, loving a child does not
Tom, loving a child does not excuse "witchlike" behavior.
Your daughter is behaving like a spoiled, manipulating, _____________fill in the blanks.
Send cards for birthdays & Holidays and leave it at that. Make sure she is FULLY AWARE that this was HER decision and that YOU will not allow HER or ANYONE disrespect your marriage.
If she comes around, great, if she doesn't....
if she doesnt..???
if she doesnt..???
If she doesn't than sadly,
If she doesn't than sadly, you will have to wait for her to come around when her teenage stage is done and over with.
You're damned if you and damned if you don't.
I'm sorry you have to deal with this. Have you tried writing her a heart felt note? Maybe explaining that she will always be your little girl and that you'd love nothing more than to be a part of her life?
Maybe explain that your wife is a good woman who treats you well and that you can't in good conscience throw her under the bus in order to make her happy.
Maybe come up with a compromise. You'll give her and her sister alone time with you IF they try and open their hearts to your wife. Maybe do a family dinner one visit and an alone dinner or movie the next.
^^^Great advice
^^^Great advice Unfreakingreal...
Tom let me ask you this would
Tom let me ask you this would you allow your wife to give you the same ultimatum? Of course you wouldn't so why are you allowing your dd to give you this ultimatum?
^^^^I brought this same point
^^^^I brought this same point up to my DH. He said, "you're right. I've given her WAY too much power and control over my life and that stops now".
I agree with what Cocoa said
I agree with what Cocoa said about your teenage DD. Hopefully if you do what she suggested and stick with it, your daughter will start to change and do her part to improve things. Hopefully it'll also help her realize that she doesn't have to love, like or even care about your wife, but by treating your wife with respect and inclusion, she will be able to see you a lot more and get a lot more of what she wants with you, and your wife will feel ok with you two doing stuff together because she won't feel challenged.
Because your daughter is a hormonal teenager, it may take her years to realize this. Heck, it may take her years to come to a place where she event wants to talk with you, let alone realize this about your wife.
I agree also with what unfreakingreal said about the letter-that sounds nice. I'd also add to that letter that the love that one has for their children is equal to the love they have for their spouse but is and should be shown very differently. And ask her to think long and hard about how she wants you to treat her boyfriend when she finds one. How she wants you to treat her future spouse/spouse when she is much older. How would she want you to treat these guys, even if you didn't like them? Would she want you to treat them respectfully? Ask her to give that a lot of thought.
I had 3 step sons who refused
I had 3 step sons who refused to visit their father if I was around. Finally, he said then you will not be seeing me because I am married and if you cannot accept Hanny as my wife and in your lives, you will not see me either. They were in their late teen years at this time. Eventually, when they got older and saw less of their mom they started to come around. I divorced their dad after 22 years of marriage, and I'm still friends with my step sons, their wives and their children (my step grandkids). Once they grew up and were out in the world, had girfriends and wives of their own and later families they realized they were wrong. I'm not saying that will happen with your daughter, but it does happen.
I understand that kids need
I understand that kids need alone which is what you are stuck on. But it should come naturely not forced. Your dd is forcing you to see her her 2x a week without your wife and you are letting her. My dh has alone time with his boys as well as I do with my kids but its not a scheduled thing it comes naturely like on fathers day when ss17 wanted to take dh to a movie that they both wanted to see. He didn't say only if purple doesn't come he has more respect than that. There is a huge difference there.
You should not allow your dd to ever say only if sm doesn't come ever. You tell her that until she can be a part of the family then the going out to eat 2x a week will stop as it is a perk to being part if the family and that she will not dictate what you will do or not and exclude any family member period.
In your heart you know that is what you need to do but you are too afraid to dp so. If you are afraid you will lose your dd then you need to remember that is her choice to cut the relationship not yours. She made thus mess and you allowed her to do so.