The train has derailed yet AGAIN
Ever feel like you're watching an endless loop of a train wreck, then it's rewound so the devastation "fixes itself" only to go forward and derail and burst into flames again? That's how I feel with DH and SD14.
The last time he talked to her was in December and he told her that he was fed up with her bullshit, lies and if she wanted to talk to him, she could call him. Things were rocky with him emotionally and last month, he sorta had what I call an emotional breakdown of sorts. He took a few days off work, regrouped, said he was moving on and done. He replaced stepdevil's photos in our Family frame and seemingly was getting back on track and life was good.
Yesterday, he gets onto stepdevil's school website to check parent-teacher conference dates and contact info. Finds out that his ex put her boyfriend as 2nd contact below her, then her sister, aunt, friend, mother and then DH at the bottom of the list. DH is the only one on that list without permission to pick his daughter up from school. He was LIVID, signed on and removed the boyfriend's name, put his name as 2nd contact below BM and sent her an email explaining why he did what he did.
Then goes to parent teacher conferences last night. Stepdevil was pulled out of school for 4 days in December. The teachers he spoke with told him why. Her boyfriend moved out of the state. So mommy let her take the rest of the week off to "mourn" her loss. The teachers were livid and called the kid and told her she needed to come back to school. Her mother said no, she needs emotional healing time. Yeah, that's how spoiled and entitled this kid is.
Her grades are good and she's more mature than her classmates, of which DH was proud and impressed. I reminded him she's a year older than all of her classmates...she got held back so she should be in high school this year and she's only in 8th grade!
He texts her to say how proud of her grades he is and that he spoke with her teachers and that he loves her. She responds with "ummmm, ok, well, ummmm thnkx I guess". Literally, typed out the ummmms in a text! So he asks her why she has cut him out of her life? Why hasn't she called or texted or responded to him? She simply said "because *I* don't want to talk to you anymore, that's my choice, goodbye".
So, here come the tears and we're back to fucking square one. I'm so over the roller coaster of his emotions. He's fine, then he's a wreck, then he's fine again and a wreck. I feel like I am constantly just waiting for the derailment, you know?
His bright idea? Force her to come over for visitation based on the existing current court order and MAKE her tell him exactly why she wants nothing to do with him anymore. He knows she's being lied to and if he can get her to come clean with what she's been told by mom, mom's boyfriend, whatever, he can set her straight and that way if they end up estranged for years, at least she knows "the truth" and he's done all he can.
You know what I said? Good luck. I've disengaged completely. I can't deal with this shit anymore. It's like a fucking nightmare that just recurs every few months. I don't want to be around either one of them as I know for sure I'd lose my shit and certainly don't want her to use that against anyone with the upcoming mediation regarding parenting time and child support.
She believes her own lies, twists things into something they're not so she can use it against him, and he KNOWS this. He's setting himself up for more hurt and he'll NEVER get a straight answer out of her. She'll lie to protect her mother and will never out her.
Oh well. I'm over it. I told him he's on his own. I'm done with it all. He'll never fucking be over this little selfish bitch and I'm tired of picking up his shattered heart and putting the pieces back together for her to come back in a month or two and just take an ax to it again.
FUCK!
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Comments
He's doing it for the fool's
He's doing it for the fool's gold. He thinks he'll get closure if he tells her the truth. When she doesn't accept it, or knows it and doesn't care, he'll find some other excuse to keep on chasing.
I'd be over it too. Ugh. Sorry you're dealing with this. He'll crash and burn.
I agree completely. I know
I agree completely. I know he'll never give up but this girl is a flat out LIAR and she's never going to give him the honest truth.
Even if she does, he's never going to just walk away. She's his only kid and has been PASd so much that she doesn't stand a chance until she's out of BM's home.
I'm just exhausted you know?
Good for you! My SS acted as
Good for you! My SS acted as if I was the aggressor and him the victim and had everyone feeling so sorry for him but my DH and his family started seeing the truth for themselves. It is funny what time will reveal.
At the end of the day, she is
At the end of the day, she is still his daughter. He is going to love her unconditionally.
I think a part of the reason sd acts the way she does towards dh is because she feels demoted. Nobody likes to feel demoted. He was right to change his parenting, and ultimately did the best he could to do her a favor, but she's not going to see it like that at 14 and while she is still living with bm and her bf.
Living with bm and her bf leads me to another thing. It's a lot easier to pi$$ off someone you don't live with over those you do. Currently, her bread is getting buttered by bm and her bf. Is it right? No. But it is human nature.
I know you hate this kid but she still has so much growing up to do. It will not happen overnight. Maybe it will never happen. And I really blame this on her parents for letting her call the shots for so long.
I hope this visit will help her see the light but also have doubts.
^^^yep, you got it. She's
^^^yep, you got it. She's not going to change while under BM's care and he is going to constantly chase a ghost wanting them to reveal themselves.
It's sad and I'm tired of being sad and then angry over it all.
Am I doing right by completely disengaging from them both?
Thanks, I hate to sort of
Thanks, I hate to sort of "leave him in the dust" but frankly, this has NOTHING to do with me and my input on the situation would be nothing short of completely negative so I know that won't help in any way.
I just wish he'd get the fact that until this kid isn't living with her mother anymore, she'll never be the person he wants her to be!
I understand. He's never
I understand. He's never been a parent to her until he started to crack down and really dig in and that's when she bolted. Of course, mommy is always there to console her and tell her how mean daddy's being and she never has to see him again if she doesn't want to.
I just don't know how he's ever going to move past this.
I would tell him I understand
I would tell him I understand how he feels but he's wrong and that his actions are only going to end in more pain. He can think about it and realize he needs to listen to you more after he tries it his way and fails. It may take several times of crashing and burning, but eventually, he will remember that you were always there supporting him and doing your best to help him and keep his best interests in mind. Don't despair Mel. A person can only take so much rejection - things will change.
^^^THIS^^^ i'd also point out
^^^THIS^^^ i'd also point out what Cheri said regarding his attempts to relate to her on an adult level instead of parent/child.
i'm so sorry u're having to watch this again - it hurts so much when we see our other half in so much pain....
((hugs))
My 2 cents worth...SD is
My 2 cents worth...SD is using her power over her father (which he has given her), and BM is egging her on because she hates him and SD is her last weapon. SD is a child. She does what makes her immediate existence more comfortable, which is to please BM by distancing and torturing her father. If your DH could understand this dynamic, he might be able to comprehend that this is not about SD's feelings for him, but about the enmeshment of BM and SD, and there is no way SD can explain why she treats him the way she does in any logical way because the dynamic is not within her intellectual understanding. She is a tool of her mother's hate. When your DH is involved in situations like the school contact, and all the other past scenarios that have had him snapping like a rabid dog at BM, BM gets upset, and then SD takes up BM's emotions as her own. He needs to keep his interactions completely calm, nonconfrontational, and with SD only. Quit poking the cobra.
I've emailed a copy of all of
I've emailed a copy of all of your responses to him. Now he's asking me how does he get out of his request to have her over for visitation now without looking like a wishy washy idiot to BM and having her use that against him in mediation/court?
I said, guess you just have to lie in the bed you made.
He doesn't. She may very
He doesn't.
She may very well choose not to visit. In fact, my gut tells me she will end up not coming to visit.
If she does come, he is just going to have to try to find other things to talk about.
Regardless of whether she comes or not, he should absolutely read up on PAS.
I've already given him the
I've already given him the links and articles on PAS and he fully believes she's been PASd like crazy.
He told BM to have her at our apartment on Sunday at 6pm as per the original court order, so I doubt SD will weasel her way out of it and BM doesn't want a contempt charge. They also did this dance back in October and BM promptly brought SD over.
does he still have those
does he still have those texts following the school conference? i'd have those saved for future use. not sure what the law is there, but some states have it where if a child is 14 then in the eyes of the Court, they CAN decide where they want to be. i wouldnt worry how it looks to BM or what she'll do with it.
he can just tell her, "look i've thought more about it and dont think its such a good idea. i'll respect your wishes." and leave it at that. if it comes up later at court and BM tries to make him look bad, he can show the texts. "because *I* don't want to talk to you anymore, that's my choice, goodbye" is pretty damn clear.
i know that's just one way of looking at it tho'. my heart goes out to you two, i'm sorry for what u're going through....
Yeah he's saving the texts.
Yeah he's saving the texts. He says he's going to force her to come over anyway. I told him do whatever he wants
u had the perfect response
u had the perfect response then - "good luck with that".
from what u've said before, he sounds like a wonderful DH outside of the SD issues. And he's lucky to have you for comfort and support. hang in there mel.
^^^Thanks Tuff. I appreciate
^^^Thanks Tuff. I appreciate it. And yes, he's damn near a perfect man when SD isn't brought up or coming around. He totally changes when she breaks his heart and seeing the tears and the hurt, well, I'm just about to tell him to fucking MAN UP and get the fuck over it. His kid is a total bitch and doesn't care about him and he just needs to accept it and move on. Then my sense of being the caring and loving wife kicks back in and there's just no way I could be so harsh.
RWH, I used to feel the same
RWH, I used to feel the same about my SD14, that she was a total bitch, etc., etc. but I came to realize that she is a child, and the villain is her mother. It might help you to try to feel some compassion for the child who is being damaged by the enmeshment with her mother's emotions, and by the loss of her father. His daughter is not allowed to care about him or his feelings. To do that is to be disloyal to her mother. Sure, it is wrong. It is hurtful to your DH, but it is not SD's fault. If he can detatch himself enough to be a soothing and calm influence on his daughter, he might be able to maintain a relationship with her. If he keeps banging his head on her mother's door, he's only causing the situation to stay locked in conflict.
^^^The only thing is, she IS
^^^The only thing is, she IS a bitch. She hasn't always been a victim of the PAS and she recognized it in the beginning by saying "mom wants me to do this or say that but I think that's wrong and I should be able to feel however I want to even if it's different than how she feels".
She's 14 not 4. She knows wrong from right and I understand your point about PAS, she definitely does have that going on. But she didn't start all this bullshit until Dh put his foot down with her and started actually PARENTING her instead of letting her rule him. She was angry that she was "demoted" as another poster had so wisely stated earlier. She was demoted back down to child status when she'd been treated as the queen of the house her entire life. She blamed me and DH for all of it and refused to come over back in June after we got married "because I don't support your marriage".
I told him to just do as he wishes with her. I'm completely out of it. I may just go stay with a friend this weekend to get away from him as it is. I'm just over it all.
If she thinks cutting her
If she thinks cutting her father out because she doesn't support his marriage is okay how would she feel about a parent cutting her out of their life because they don't support her choice of a boyfriend or husband?
I don't think she'd think that's fair and demand her parents love her forever no matter what.
Children are to love their parents forever no matter who they marry, same goes for parents to children. Who you marry and choose to love is your own personal business. If they truly love you more than they hate whoever you got together with then they'll always be there for you. That's what love & loyalty looks like. That's what family is supposed to have.
So the conflict between her
So the conflict between her parents has been a constant in her life. She has been able to withstand the PAS for some time. Don't you think she finds it exhausting and wants it to stop? The only way she has to do that is to pick one of them, and cut off the other one. YOU are exhausted by the drama and the conflict. YOU want to disengage, and you are an adult. She's 14, not 24. She's immature for her age, as evidenced by being held back in school. I keep coming back to this point because I think it is crucial that your DH understand that SD is reacting to her mother's emotional state, and much of that is subconscious. What he did with the school conferences opened up the battle with her mother again. It was not reaching out to SD, it was creating conflict with BM.
Of course she felt "demoted" when you came into the picture. That is a dynamic that your DH created by having SD be his ally against BM previously, acting as his mini-wife. When he tried to create a more normal father-daughter parent-child relationship, she jumped to side with BM against him, because BM has fewer rules and expectations. Life is easier with BM. Very predictable and very clear from outside, but I would have never figured this out without going through the same thing as you are. (But I think the BM in my case is way crazier!) I tried to take the long view. What actions on our part with SD14 are most likely to give the longterm reward of contact with the grandbabies? Continually doing things that cause or continue drama and conflict with her mother are not going to help that goal. Maybe you can get him to think more longterm with that as the question he asks himself before jumping in to do something.
I think it would be good for you to have a weekend away from this drama, too. It is so intense and all-encompassing. I know exactly how you feel. My DH has not seen SD14 since August. He has recently has had Sunday night phone calls, and he has gotten to a place where they can have a civil conversation. Almost 6 months with very little contact, and he and I still talk about her and her wretched mother every day, at least a little. It's a long way from where I want us to be, but we will get there, one day at a time. Serenity now, RWF!
^^^I hear you. Loud and
^^^I hear you. Loud and clear. And you're right. I do want out. I can definitely see why she chose BM, because BM is a friend and an enabler. BM is not a good parent, by any standards. SD had a pregnancy scare at age 13 due to BM's neglect and lack of supervision and constantly trying to be the "cool mom". No rules, no chores, no discipline, pulls her kid out of school for almost a week to "mourn" her 14 yr old boyfriend moving away(the same one she had sex with at 13 and was caught in BM's yard at 4am with too).
I try so hard not to get involved but DH drags me into it. Now that BM is taking him to court for 100% custody and child support, he's enlisted me to help him draft responses, attend meeting with attorneys, help him all the way. I do that as a partner, a wife and a loving friend only. Now he is in too deep with demanding shit from SD that he's never gonna get.
I just want it over with. I'm exhausted!
Can you stop helping him do
Can you stop helping him do what will only make the conflict worse with BM? I know that he's scared about his child's future, but SD is lost to him right now, and attempting to force custody or visitation will not help him get closer to her. What would really change if BM had custody? A few less forced visits? The amount saved in attorney's fees would most likely pay the child support for a few years. Help him see the most loving thing he can do for his child is to stop the conflict between her parents. That is within his power.
The only reason she's going
The only reason she's going after him for full custody is $$$$$. If he rolls over and gives her that, what does that look like to SD14? That her dad doesn't care enough to fight for her? Also, we'd be in financial ruin if he does that. Not only is she asking for full cs, but also all health insurance and the child tax dependency every year. Our income just can't support that.
As it stands now, he pays her $250 per month for 50/50, BM has SD (well supposed to have, according to an agreement she signed last year) on a subsidized health insurance plan which DH is supposed to pay for but she's never given him any bills.
All he's asking for is weekends and summer break visitation, which will keep the cs at a tolerable level and shows the court (and SD) that he's not giving up.
Reframe the situation. He
Reframe the situation. He loves her enough to give her the gift of peace between her parents. That is priceless. Your budget will stretch to fit.
It won't, trust me. We've
It won't, trust me. We've already calculated it. It's $250 a month just to put her on my insurance alone. His child support would double to more than $500.
He called her attorney to discuss what he's willing to do. They're supposed to be setting up a meeting in a couple of weeks so this may not even go to mediation.
Just because BM asks for an
Just because BM asks for an amount of money, that doesn't mean she will get it. Realistically, he DOESN'T have the child 50/50, so she's going to get more anyway. Health insurance in this state is calculated as part of the CS award, not as an extra cost.
We are currently paying health ins., $175/mo., and $304 CS for SD's support. It is worth every penny to have peace in my home. It was a big turn-around from getting $766/mo. from BM while SD was living here, but I will never go back. I'll eat rice and drink water before I'll do that.
AND you have a bright future ahead in bartending! The biggest obstacle to your happiness is the conflict between your DH and BM. Get that resolved and things will get a lot better.
She's not asking for a
She's not asking for a certain amount of money, just full 100% parenting time. According to the 4 attorneys we spoke with last Friday, there's no way a judge will award that unless DH is deemed to be unfit for visitation, which is hardly the case.
According to the CS calculator for Colorado, if she had 365 overnights and DH zero, her support goes up to $600 per month. That's after factoring in $250 per month in health insurance. So instead of paying $250 per month like he's paying now, he'd be paying $850. We simply cannot afford an increase of $600, even if I take a job bartending. We're trying to save money to eventually move out of Colorado.
We're simply hoping she'll be talked into being reasonable by her attorney (as he seemed to think what DH was suggesting as far as weekends/school breaks/summer visitation was perfectly reasonable) and agreeing to that. Her CS would likely go up slightly (about $100 extra) so she'd be happier.
She already agreed to provide health insurance for SD so that'll be brought up in the meeting with her attorney. DH had SD insured until he switched jobs and we got married, so he got put on my plan. BM then agreed that she'd put SD on the subsidized insurance offered to her since she only works part time and signed and notarized a document stating that last May. DH agreed to pay for the enrollment and any copays or prescriptions. Either BM didn't enroll her at all and SD has been uninsured since May or she simply hasn't provided DH with any bills.
Of course, she neglected to tell her attorney about that, so he pushed for it all. 100% parenting time, full health/medical coverage and child tax credit every year. DH is suggesting weekend/summer/school break visitation, BM covers health insurance as previously agreed upon and they rotate the child tax credit every other year. To me, and to BM's attorney, that is totally reasonable. Now, it's getting BM to agree to it.
What DH is most concerned about is if the new parenting time agreement he's proposing gets accepted, and SD still doesn't want to exercise her visitation with DH, that BM will just haul him back into court again. He'll have to force visitation or risk going back to court.
If SD refuses to visit, then
If SD refuses to visit, then more time will pass and you are closer to the end of CS before BM can bring it back to court. Maybe she's as sick of it all as you are. How much did the 4 attorneys cost? We spent $18,000 on attorneys in the last 3 years to have 0 parenting time and pay CS. But we are free of conflict. There is nothing to argue about with BM. She gets to make all the decisions, and SD is free to visit or not, as agreed between her parents 3 days in advance of a visit. She has not wanted to visit. Peace is priceless. The CS is temporary. If you have the max increase of $600/mo. over what you are now paying, that is $7,200/year for 4 years. Under $30,000 total. Less than a nice new car. Try to have some perspective. You won't have to feed or entertain SD, which saves money, and it's unlikely that your increased CS would be that much anyway. And you moved to a smaller apt., right? More savings. Don't make it about the money. Look at your happiness and stress level.
Oh the attorneys didn't cost
Oh the attorneys didn't cost anything. We took last Friday off work and had 30 minute free consultations with them all to figure out how we wanted to approach this.
If DH got ZERO parenting time with SD - to hell if she WANTED to visit that I'd be ok with that. Fuck her. She can stuff her head further up her momma's ass for all I care.
Anon's right, he doesn't. He
Anon's right, he doesn't. He uses this is a lesson to Not send emails or make phone calls to SD or BM when he's emotional. That he needs to let it sit on the burner for a while and consider the impact of what he's asking.
He can also realize that just because she's (possibly) coming over that he doesn't have to follow through on his original plan for demanding an explanation etc etc etc. Battling PAS, particularly when the kid is so often elsewhere is a bitter, often pointless battle, but he can try to get her to think about what BM and bf are telling her and maybe come to some rational conclusions. Otherwise he just needs to suck it up and slog through the time.
I'm so sorry for you hon! *hugs*
Hey Aeron! Good to see you
Hey Aeron! Good to see you again. Been missing you!
I honestly have just thrown in the towel. I don't care what happens between them now. I'm just done being involved, you know? I've gotten to the IDGAF (Thanks, Breathe Carolina) stage and that's where I'll remain.
Hope all is well with you! Hit me up on Facebook sometime and let me know how it's going!
Tell her simply, "I am
Tell her simply, "I am canceling our appointment."
If she asks why then say, "Because I can choose to." That's her line.
UGH!!!!! It is a vicious
UGH!!!!!
It is a vicious cycle that NEVER goes away
Totally sucks. As soon as shit seems to balance out and the situation is tolerable on both sides shit blows up again.
My sd and your SD are a lot alike and we kinda have similar situations in some ways. SD knows her power and BD encourages her negativity, thats a no brainer too.
Its hard bc my fdh got depressed bc sd used her presence as punishment. Then he's all mopey and down in the dumps. Even still when she comes over its all rainbows and unicorns and fdh is up her ass. Its so irritating and I can't stand it but I know he misses her. There is no answer bc there is NOTHING WE CAN DO except leave and let them have their time or whatever.
I have no patience for fdh when he acts like that, he created the monster, he gives her the power he can deal with it. sorry have been supportive and now I need to be supportive from a distance.
My best advice would be for him to let her come around in her own time and not force it. She will come around eventually, as soon as she see's some type of benefit she will be all over her dad. he just needs to tell her she is making the choice to not have him involved. Depends how hard he wants to push ?
I hate it, it sucks. Sorry you have to deal with this redwings
I'm just so fucking over the
I'm just so fucking over the bullshit and I'm fed up. I know what's going to happen. The same thing that happened in October when he forced her to come then. She's going to pretend and blow smoke up his ass and make promises that she'll be in contact and then it'll be another 2 months that go by without him hearing from her.
Exactly, and it's going to
Exactly, and it's going to keep happening. Thats what happens in my situation too. So frustrating.
Take a deep breath, It's fucking Friday baby!! Have a drink and unwind ASAP. Trust me I know easier said then done but I'm SO sick of stressin and getting upset about SD15!
Be gentle with DH- SD knows she is hurting him and she's doing it on purpose. As frustrating as it is, just go love on him. Let him know YOU will always be there.
AS many times as I have wanted to punch fdh in the face, I can't imagine my daughter doing that to me and the hurt I would feel- it's upsetting bc its the same situation over and over again and if it was US we would do things totally different and wouldn't have rat faced kids like that lol
BUT I know how much you love your DH- he needs you right now
HA! Nevermind, I retract this
HA! Nevermind, I retract this comment- I just read more about what he's doing to see her
Unfortunately it's only 11AM
Unfortunately it's only 11AM here and I still have more than a half day of work to go before I can get that Margarita (or 5) and unwind.
I feel bad that I just bit into him about being sick to death of her, her lies, her bullshit, her hurting him, etc. I just want us to be able to go on without her interference because all it does is cause him pain and he knows deep down she's not changing. He's grasping at straws.
I almost feel like I'm tired of being the rock all the time too. He ALWAYS needs me when she pulls his heart out through his nostrils. ALWAYS. I'm getting to the point where I'm about to just tell him I've disengaged and will not discuss her anymore. Period. I just want out of the whole thing.
Grrrrrrrr
BTDT and have the damn
BTDT and have the damn t-shirt. DH now sees SD16 once a month for lunch. That works for him. It will always be hard for him, but this is for the best for everyone. SHe is not welcome here. My SS and BS hate her and I pretty much do to. She destroyed DH and it was a long time before he was good again. Just support him, but never discuss her. I don't unless she does something that affects my household.
Every 6 months it seems she pulls some crap on us. This last one was a repeat performance of another stunt. So then I say something and basically told him to deal with it. He did to my knowledge, but I will never ask and it hasn't come up.
You can only support them, but you do not have to be involved in this drama.
^^I don't even think she
^^I don't even think she wants to do a once a month lunch, that's how PASd this kid is!
I'm totally disengaging from the both of them from here on out. Until he's out from under her fucking spell anyway!
^^Yes, so now starting Sunday
^^Yes, so now starting Sunday night, he'll take her over to his dad's and I won't see him for an entire week. Then next weekend, I'm starting bartending courses and won't see him then either. Maybe this time away will do us both some good.
Fuck it. I'm not even going to say another word to him. He can do as he chooses and leave me the hell out of his drama with miss. drama queen
wait what?! You won't see him
wait what?! You won't see him for a whole week bc he's running to SD?
Oh fuck my last comment!! This is some BS and I would be tearin his ass up
Just sit back and watch him get burned AGAIN bc it IS going to happen
This is how we get burned out........fucked up
No, he's forcing her to come
No, he's forcing her to come for a week (or weekend, he hasn't decided yet) but she's not welcome in our apartment, so he'll take her and stay at his dad's.
I am waiting on our tax refund that supposed to hit our account today and then I'm enrolling in 2 weekends of bartending classes, so if he takes her this weekend, I won't see him for 3 weekends in a row. Whatever. His choice
Yeah I told him the same
Yeah I told him the same thing. It's like watching him from the outside and telling him "don't pet that dog, she's going to bite you" and he reaches out, pets the dog anyway, gets bit, backs off for a while and then when he sees the same dog, I tell him "Don't touch that dog, you're gonna get bitten" and he reaches out and pets her and gets bitten again because he thought this time would be different!
UGH! It's just a never ending circle of pain!
It sounds like your DH needs
It sounds like your DH needs to hear what my SO heard from his counselor yesterday. SO's counselor helped him realize that he's reactionary and tries to make big decisions in a time frame that isn't appropriate for the decision being made. (Of course, with the way SO argues with me, I was NOT surprised to hear that, haha). His counselor asked him what the big deal is with letting himself take a week to actually think about something before acting on it, and what would happen if he didn't act on things right away?
It seems like your DH might benefit from letting things sit and simmer until he has a chance to cool off and think them over before he reacts, so that way, he's acting instead of having an emotional reaction to things. I know, easier said than done, especially because it's his kid that he's dealing with. It's hard when it's your family, that's one thing I've learned personally over the years in my own experiences - family related, not Skid related.
Does your DH have someone to go talk to besides you? You've been doing an awesome job of being a supportive and loving wife (naturally!) but, I'm just curious if he has an objective outsider that he can bounce stuff off of?
DH is definitely a
DH is definitely a reactionary person. When he was still seeing his therapist, the guy told him to let SD come to him, not to force things. Ok, well, months went by and of course, SD is not coming to him.
He used the parent-teacher conference as a way to open the door with her again and again, she slams it shut. So now he's pissed and wants "answers" as to why she's behaving the way she is.
He does talk with his dad and with his boss, who is more of a friend than a boss. They've both said the same thing to him - he's fighting a losing battle, but they both understand why he wouldn't just roll over and give up on his only child.
Our men and their kids must
Our men and their kids must be cut from the same cloth, long lost relatives?
I could definitely understand why he wouldn't want to just give up on his kid, much like I can understand why my SO wouldn't, either. Heck, with all the stories he has heard about me being kicked out of my family and ostracized when I lived with them, even if he's just afraid of me viewing him as no better than them, I can understand. But, I know that's not it, it's because it's his kid. She's 50% of his genetics no matter how much her behavior sucks and how much she acts like GUBM. I wonder if your DH might benefit from having another therapist? Having support outside of the house is good, always, but I have found that SO benefited the most from getting his own therapist because the therapist won't just let him sit there and drone on and on about how much GUBM and SD are being ridiculous, he makes him reflect on how this is all impacting him.
Much like your DH, SO texted SD yesterday demanding that she call him - he wants to confront her about the lying. She's never going to call him, she's never going to text him back. Not only is she probably scared to be confronted by SO, but, she doesn't feel the need to talk to him because she knows where her bread is buttered.
I honestly don't see that situation playing out the way he wants it to, he wants SD to be remorseful (she never shows remorse for misbehaving), he wants SD to realize that she hurt him (she won't care, when she hurt his feelings this summer, she wrote him a letter about how much he hurt HER by expecting her to be respectful), and he wants SD to realize that she is losing out on coming to visit him in PGH (again, she won't care because we don't do it for her, GUBM does). I see the same thing with your DH and SD, and, it breaks my heart, because our men deserve the decency of being treated the way they treat others, but yet, their own kids shit all over them.
But, I will say, I agree with the other commenters who have said that DH should keep the visitation plan, but, just not force or demand an explanation. Something tells me, though, that he already knows since you've shared the info about PAS with him. I'm guessing he wants to demand the explanation for the same reason SO wants to demand an explanation from my SD - to maybe snap them back into reality and make them realize just how horridly they have behaved. Just sad that it won't work.
I get exactly what you're
I get exactly what you're saying. And it is sad that it won't work the way he seemingly thinks it will.
I don't know what is going to end up happening. All I know is now I'm dreading this weekend, when it's Friday and I should be happy. I was planning on spending a nice, quiet and relaxing weekend home with DH since the next 2 weekends are going to be booked for bartending training from 10-6, both Saturdays and Sundays.
Now he's saying instead of having her for the week, he's texted BM asking for simply this weekend so it doesn't interfere with school. God, I just want him to say FFFF it and just QUIT, you know?
I'm just sick of her ruling him, hurting him, not caring about how he feels and him wanting her to be something she's not. Just fucking accept it already!!! Your daughter is a lying, manipulative, selfish, PASd bitch and won't change while BM is involved in her care. Period. Dot. The fucking END!
It's maddening, it really is.
It's maddening, it really is. We love and care about these men, watch them get shit all over, then watch them recoup, refuse to be treated like garbage, but then, turn right back around and ask for them to shit on them again. Maddening.
Pas is horrible and very hard
Pas is horrible and very hard to counteract. The message your Sd is getting from Bm is this: your dad
is unsafe, unloving and unavailable. He has to send the opposite message - thru his actions- i love you
, i am there for you and i take care of you. Will she immediately come to her senses? No. But he has to
make sure she knows her father loves her, wants to spend time with her, etc. He needs a thick skin.
She is under a spell that she cannot break right now. But he should not hive up on her.
I have the same situation with skids and i hate it. But the dad cannot give the alienating Bm any ammunition
use against him. Loving safe and available . All of the time.
^^ Thank you,PS. That is
My ex was the same way.
My ex was the same way. there was so much drama, his mood was directly related to whether he was hearing/seeing his kids. Kids didn't come over, then he's be in a pissy mood all weekend, wouldn't want to do anything, go anywhere, talk, etc. I put up with it for a long long time. finally, the kids grew up, moved out of mom's house and got a brain and a life of their own. They finally came around, but it took years. My current SO has said that he knew when he divorced that he wouldn't really have a 'realtionshipl' with his girls until they grew up and moved out of their mom's house. He's still waiting, 18 year old off to college, 23 year old still living with mom. Things are getting better, but it's still pretty much one sided. Him reaching out to them all the time. I told him from the very start, do not take it out on me! I am the 1 person who is behind you on all this, the 1 person who understands you, do not take your issues with your kids on me! He's been pretty good with this too. Not like my ex, I just couldn't take it and after 22 years of marriage divorced him. Your DH just has to cool his heels until this girl grows up and can have a mind of her own. I know it's hard though.
Sd is going to do this shit
Sd is going to do this shit over and over and over again. SD 17 has done it 20 times in the past between 14 and 17. Then comes back.
And when she leaves next year she will probably do it again. One thing I will give my DH is that when she starts that shit he just shakes his head, tells me she is just like her Mother, and he is just as stubborn as SD so he doesnt go back begging.
The best thing your DH can do is let this go. She will be back. One because they always are and two to torture you!
Ive also been there and done
Ive also been there and done that, in fact It is one of my fears that dh will somehow get sucked back into the ss/inlaw vaccuum once again. Everytime he does he ends up butt ass hurt and ends up taking it out on me and my kids-with his moodiness and irritability.
He been burned quite a few times over the last 6 months or so and I feel like he learns a little each time. At this point he has not spoke to ss since december-hasnt seen him since running into him in public in September. Their last actual "visit" was in July. He hasnt spoken to his parents since September. Fortunately, they keep doing things to show what assholes they are. If they'd actually be nice to my dh I do think there is a chance he'd get caught up again-but instead they will randomly text him hateful things-ss texted him in January and told him he is no longer his father-he has no father-that dh is psycho and paranoid retired military? This was due to the fact that dh did not call ss whenever ss had decided in his mind that dh needed to call him. FIL left him a smart ass, hateful message last weekend. His mom refused to acknowledge My dd at her place of work, when my dd was injured (mil works in an er). My bil asked for money back in dec and when dh did not immediately answer him-he told dh he was going to be responsible for his kids freezing on the side of the road. Given time, they have all showed what truly despicable asshats they are.
Hopefully your dh is learning a little each time his dd is a biatch to him. One other thing I wanted to say, I respect that her mother probably created this situation with the PAS and so forth, but I truly feel at some point, you have to stop caring WHY the kid acts the way they do and simply deal with the behavior at hand. Most folks have a million excuses as to why they did this bad thing or that bad thing-but the bottom line is at some point it is no longer even pertinent. Her behavior is rude and unacceptable. It should be dealt with rather than having any sort of lengthy discussions about WHY.
So, so sorry you have this
So, so sorry you have this going on! The only way to stop SD in her tracks is by DH leaving her alone. This was what we had to do to DH's daughters a couple years ago.
BM didn't want them, DH raised them. I come into the picture and 6 months later BM realizes they love me and they have a great life so she starts being in their life.
When youngest SD moved out two years later it crushed DH. She then began calling and yelling at him for no reason, telling him she wanted nothing to do with him. SD acted like yours, a total pain in the ass. DH did the roller coaster for a few months until she called on his bday and instead of "happy birthday, love you dad" he got "you are a piece of shit who only loves sara and her kids". He said, "I'm done, don't call me anymore".
For a few months he would get texts/vmail from her that were nasty but he ignored her. We didn't see her for a long time and then finally one day she just took her head out of her butt and saw the light. The key was DH taking away her power over him. It is now three years after the ordeal had begun and we are happy. My SD's and I have an awesome relationship and they show DH the respect he deserves. They have even appologized for how they treated us. We have been back together for a while now. I konw SD's have changed bc I can see through their BS (always have with all people within my circle), my bio dad was a master manipulator and liar so I can see it a mile away.
You can't fight this battle for him. He has to do it on his own. All you can do is wash your hands of the situation and be there to pick up the pieces when it blows up in his face again, if you have the strength to even do so. People like your SD will continue to walk all over people if they let her. The cycle can be stopped but DH has to stop it.
Good luck!
Thank you all for your
Thank you all for your insight, input, opinions and life stories. I fully appreciate every single word here and I'm doing as most of you suggested: washing my hands of it.
Whatever DH does with SD is on him. I'm no longer involved. I'm going to go to Happy Hour tonight after work, down me some margaritas, text DH and tell him he can meet me at the bar if he likes and then wing it from there!
Thanks Rising - I appreciate
Thanks Rising - I appreciate it. And yes, we do have similar situations and it's very hurtful.
I did tell DH that I felt it was best if he saw his therapist again. He quit going last month after having his mini breakdown and "finding himself" again. He truly seemed so much better and calls this a "minor setback" and he's not going anywhere near the place he was last month.
I do feel like I'm carrying a huge burden and just when things start going good and I feel like I can set the heavy stone down for a minute, someone (SD) piles on 50 more stones and my burden just gets that much heavier.
He did say he's going to stop being so reactionary to them (BM & SD) from here on out and give himself a day or two to respond, which is good. He just texted me and said "if I see SD this weekend, I do. If not, oh well. I'm not trying to force it anymore and I'm just going to drop everything if she ignores me".
Now, it all sounds good for the time being, but knowing his history, a few months will pass or something big will happen and he'll be right back at square one again. I just don't know how the mediation between him and BM is gonna affect him either. I wish he could just get it over with now and be done with it.
I plan to go to Happy Hour and text him from there and let him know where I've landed. It's National Margarita Day and dammit, I need a few!
Thanks again. I truly appreciate everyone here and especially those I'm close with and that can totally relate (as you do).
YES! Would LOVE that!
YES! Would LOVE that!
Update on the situation: DH
Update on the situation: DH called BM's attorney on lunch and explained how he initially wanted to force visitation but has thought about it and it's not in stepdevil's best interest since she's doing so well in school, to bring her for a week. He said he'd rather wait until mediation is over before enforcing anything.
They had a LONG chat he said, and the attorney was informed that DH was someone he's not (by BM of course). Attorney said DH was very reasonable and commended his putting his child's best interests above the fight with BM. He suggested meeting with both DH and BM ahead of mediation to see if anything can be resolved, now that he knows how easy going and willing DH is to settle this.
DH says he's still going to ask for weekends, school breaks and summer visitation, so as not to remove kid from her "home base" and not to interfere with school since mom lives basically in the school's backyard. He said even if visitation is not enforced because the kid is being the way she is, at least he's showing her that he is there and wants to see her. Attorney again commended him for being so reasonable and stated he didn't see that as an issue. Of course, BM is only wanting more money, so anything she gets more than 50/50 custody will likely be favorable to her. She's going for full, 100% but there's no judge in their right mind going to deny DH visitation under the circumstance that SD just doesn't wanna...he's not asking to remove her from her home, just to see her during school breaks and weekends.
Anyhow, he feels much better and I'm no longer a wreck inside waiting for that brat to grace our doorstep. He's meeting me after work for Happy Hour Margaritas and we're going to share a nice relaxing weekend. Next month, I'm hoping to be enrolled in bartending training so I have to get some easy restful weekends in before that begins!
I just wanted to say thanks again to everyone who responded. I value each and every one of you and you always know how to help!
Thanks. It always feels like
Thanks. It always feels like things just get so blown out of proportion, we are on edge all day long and then in the end, it really is no big deal (or we figure out a game plan).
I'm just looking forward to some ice cold margaritas now!
Sounds like good progress!
Sounds like good progress! I'm heading out for some after work relaxation, too. Have a good weekend!
"So the conflict between her
"So the conflict between her parents has been a constant in her life. She has been able to withstand the PAS for some time. Don't you think she finds it exhausting and wants it to stop? The only way she has to do that is to pick one of them, and cut off the other one. YOU are exhausted by the drama and the conflict. YOU want to disengage, and you are an adult. She's 14, not 24. She's immature for her age, as evidenced by being held back in school."-nothinforya
I agree with this. All of it. This kid wants the PAS to stop. The only way she can do that right now is to pick BM so maybe, just maybe, BM will back off the PAS.
I know you may disagree with this, but given the circumstances of this situation, I think the blame solely lies on the parents. BM for PASing and allowing her to call the shots and DH for allowing her to call the shots. I don't think SD14 should be blamed, because she is merely doing, in her 14 year old mind, all she can do to cease the PAS. In her mind, she probably thinks that backing away from DH will make BM back off her. True, she is not 4, but she is not an adult, either.