Breaking every single rule whole life, literally?
Is this normal? Serious question. My SD12STB13 has literally broken every rule we have ever given her, ever. She gets grounded, talked to, "re-trusted", says "why don't you truuuust meeee" and all that BS. Gets her phone/computer/whatever back and right back at what ever the hell she wants.
1. Do not walk outside the neighborhood or go in a strangers house when going "for a walk".
- She walked to the store and came home with a 20 ounce soda claiming it was from the friend down the street's house.
- She called me from a strangers house, a boy, in the back of the neighborhood to tell me to bring her swim suit. (Dumbass)
2. Do not friend strangers or talk to strangers on facebook/online and never give phone number, school, etc.
- She friended, chatted, and gave her number and school name and address to a complete stranger that was asking "did you shower yet" and "don't forget to brush your teeth", supposedly a 13-year-old boy that was looking for a friiiend, but he told her she was prettier than the friend she is jealous of, so she asked him to sneak and meet her at the park on the corner down the street from our neighborhood. Lucky for her, I check her shit...the "boy" deleted his facebook account the next day.
3. Do not text or make calls past 9:30/bedtime. She snuck and texted until 12AM. Got caught, grounded from phone, the day she got the phone back, texted until 12AM... Why did she get away with it for two months? Because we had to truuuuuust heeeer according to DH. I looked that shit up on the verizon website and now she hands me the phone at 9pm every night.
4. Do not date your BFF's boy friend the next day after her mother makes them break up because she caught the BFF sneaking out to make out with the boy.
- Yep, she snuck and went out with him at school.
5. Do not Skype boys in your room and not allowed to Skype with BFF's boyfriend.
- I just got her Skype PW, I STUPIDLY TRUSTED HER ON THIS...she Skyped the boy every single night for a week, when swearing she didn't/wouldn't and we could truuuuuust her.
6. Do not sneak deserts.
- Guess who gorges down all the cupcakes and lies about it until DH caught her with two in her mouth/hand 40 minutes before dinner the other night. Otherwise she escalates and stomps "I didnt DOOOO iiiit", yet she DID and LIED.
*Now, she gives me the phone at 9pm.
*She is no longer allowed to use my computer/laptop ever and it is passworded. She is getting her own internet tablet for Christmas from my in-laws, and I seriously think I am just not going to give a fuck about what she does on it. DH can monitor it if he wants or let her be whatever on it. I am 38 weeks pregnant and have better things to do that follow her around as she does nothing but sneak, lie, cheat, and manipulate!
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I am SO FRUSTRATED! I have raised this kid, and so I must be a really SHITTY mom. My daughter sneaks, lies, cheats, and manipulates constantly, nonstop, and I am so disappointed. I have always listened to her, I try to be fair, I have tried to trust her over and over trusting her again and again only to be lied to and catch her breaking the same rules over and over, I have never name-call her or put her down or anything anywhere near abusive ever, and I always try to make consequences fit the crime, so to speak, and even tell her to learn from her mistakes but not to beat herself up for it! She just breaks *literally* every single important rule and really doesn't give a fuck. Of course she will say stuff like "I'm bad and horrible and want to kill myself now" when she gets caught. It is manipulation to make us run and say ooh nooooo you're not baaad.
I now have to lock up all the medication in my house. She started counseling yesterday. She is very two-faced too and manipulative and I just am so tired of it. I love her, but sometimes, I don't like being around her. 
That makes me feel so bad, too.
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My oldest SS did the similar
My oldest SS did the similar things. Stand your ground. Put your foot down HARD!!! now while you still have the chance. It took my 2 1/2 years to really get through to my oldest, but we got through it and now have an excellent relationship. She is testing you. She is pushing buttons to see how for it takes for you to break. I have NEVER laid a hand of my SKs, I never will, but they all know who is the boss.... and they also know what the consequences are for the actions they take.
I have always been
I have always been consistent. I never drop consequences early, never hand out "harsh punishment out of anger", always talk to her about what she did and why it was wrong and why we had the rule blah blah blah. I have done this her whole life and always re-give trust, but FFS. She does what she wants when she wants and simply does not give a flying fuck until she is caught, then she lies like a rug and then of course after that when she is held accountable now comes the "I want to kill myself; you don't love me; no one cares about meeee".
My response this time was, welp, you will not be using my laptop today. I would have LOVED to have me as a mom. Maybe I am just not the mom she needs though. She took vitamins and antacids and left me a note "I am in medical crisis, but since you don't love me or care, just never mind"... taped to my bedroom door the day after Thanskgiving. Yep, I took her and went to the ER and then they sent us home saying she was gesturing, then she got in the medicine cabinet again (lingering so we would catch her) and we admitted her to in-patient childrens psychiatric facility immediately.
I am so tired. Just so freaking tired.
Why do you allow her to even
Why do you allow her to even have a computer in HER ROOM?
Why is a 12yr old walking down the street alone nowadays with so many crazy perverts out there?
Why does a 12yr old need a cell phone? I'm 44 and have a home phone.
Where does a 12yr old get money to got get anything?
Why does she have Skype? Get rid of it.
Sorry, I understand things are somewhat different nowadays, but my son is 11 and he can't do ANY of that stuff. Simple. I control EVERYTHING he can see on OUR computer...which he must use in our living room or in the room when we are awake and WITH HIM. Simple as that. No, he cannot walk down the street. We live in a gated community and he can walk here because there are always other parents/adults around and we all know each other and watch each other's kids. No, he does not have a cell phone to call any girls, no matter that the girls are already calling other boys...their problem.
No phone. She is not old
No phone. She is not old enought o be ANYWHERE without an adult. Take it away. Nope. YOu are a liar and no, I don't trust you.
No tablet internet access. Block it.
If she tries the 'you hate me and I will kill myself..." thing again get in her face and say "Really? Because I will have you committed to a psychiatric hospital for 72 hrs... that is 3 days. And this will happen over and over again until you give it up. I am older and wiser than you. I have BEEN 12/13. I KNOW what games you are playing."
Meeting boys and dating at school ... you really cannot do anything about that. But what you CAN do is threaten that if her grades do not improve/slip she is heading to boarding school.
Sneaking out to meet boys? Tell her father that if his daughter goes missing or gets raped then you will have no problem getting on the TV and telling the world that you tried your best but her father said he trusted her to be honest. Point out that the 13 yr old she was flirting up a storm with shut his FB account down the very next day after your outed SD. And you are convinced it was a predator looking for fresh bait. He is VERY lucky his daughter is not raped and killed at the bottom of a ravine.
>>>>>He is VERY lucky his
>>>>>He is VERY lucky his daughter is not raped and killed at the bottom of a ravine.
Not to be an extremist about this, but, he really is lucky. She has proven that she can't handle that amount of trust, and, that they can't trust where she is and what she is doing. Just recently, where I live, a 15 year old girl smoked pot and synthetic pot with a 21 year old man who raped her after she passed out. He and his friend then left for dead on her mother's front porch. I haven't been able to find any updates about her condition, but, on Nov 28th, she was in the ICU on a ventilator. Her father went on the news and said that while he is angry with the guy who did this to his daughter, he said that this just goes to show what can happen when parents don't know what their kids are doing.
Don't give her that trust
Don't give her that trust anymore. Plain and simple. If your DH can agree, it will be much easier. This whole having to trust her nonsense is ridiculous. She has to prove that she can be trusted and it sounds like she has done nothing to do as much. Make the wrong behaviors difficult and the right behaviors easier for her until she can prove that she can follow the rules, or, indefinitely if she can't prove that.
SD12stb13 has proven herself to be just as untrustworthy as your SD. She is never allowed to take her laptop or cell phone into her bedroom. She cannot/does not monitor or regulate herself and she will stay up until all hours of the night on websites she has no business being on or texting people. SO used to have no problem with letting her have her electronics in her bedroom until he realized the extent of the problem when we moved into the townhouse (she'd sleep till well into the afternoon from being up all night and her computer would regularly be infected with viruses and malware from the websites she was going to).
So, SD was then required to leave all of her electronics downstairs, in our dining room, before going to bed and when she wasn't actively using them. She still has to leave her electronics on our dinner table when she goes to bed. SO and I both double check every night to make sure her things are where they belong and not in her room. But she still has not proven that she can be trusted, so, the next time she visits, they will get stored in our bedroom to remove the temptation for her. And let me tell you, if SD ever lives with us, her laptop is disappearing and she will get a desktop computer set up in a common area of the house which will be password protected so that she can only use it when either SO or I are around.
Sneaking food she shouldn't be sneaking? We keep all sweets out of SD's reach, on the back of the fridge. If she wants something, she has to ask for it. She can't just take it. It's yet another thing she has proven that she can't be trusted with. She will go for the sweets 99% of the time because she is not allowed to have sweets at GUBM's house. It sucks to have to rearrange things for a misbehaving kid, but, sometimes you just have to do it in order to get them to stop.
Eventually you do have to give them a little more slack, but, be prepared for her to go back to her old habits and be prepared to pull up the slack when she does.
I feel for you. I truly do.
I feel for you. I truly do. This is NOT your fault. You are not a bad momma. This child has more going on in her head than just not having the right punishment for the crime.
I agree with previous posters - LOCK DOWN. No internet. No cell phone. No computer/TV/gaming system in her room. Let her EARN your trust. (Trust isn't given - it is earned - her shitty behavior has earned her the right to LOCK DOWN.)
It may take months before you can trust her again. And the INSTANT she slips? you gotta pull it all back and start over from scratch.
I would NOT however, threaten her with more days at the hospital. Because honestly? I think she's going to end up doing some time in another program. She needs a good strong counselor. She needs therapy. She isn't processing life like the rest of us do. Something isn't clicking into place in her brain. She probably really WANTS to be a good kid, but her impulses are over ruling.
And something I've learned with dealing with kids like this? Validation. Learn how to validate her feelings - it doesn't mean she gets a free pass to be an ass. What it means is when she says things like "I hate you" you respond with "I hear you saying you hate me. That makes me sad. Do you really mean you hate me? or are you just angry because I've taken away your phone?" Validate, then push her to own her feelings - explaining them.
Good luck!
Oh she is on lock down in a
Oh she is on lock down in a modified way. I put her on lockdown the minute she was home from the hospital. All medications are in a locked filing cabinet, too. She will have monitored facebook access and she will get an Xbox for Christmas still, but it will go in the living room. She is not allowed to lock her door either. This was explained gently and building trust.
1. She has no Skype; she has no laptop going to her room (for a long time, except if DH gave it to her and he has been put on warning too AND I put a password on the laptop so she cannot sneak on it).
2. She never sneaks out of my house, what I meant was if at a friends house, she and the friend walk to meet boys or walk to the store after me telling her NO or if she goes for a walk around the neighborhood, she will leave the neighborhood and cross the street to the little store after being told it is against the rules. She has never dared leave my house without permission - she will sneak and do things but she is still scared enough of me to not dare that.
3. She hands over the phone at 9pm still and will every school night. I let her keep the phone on weekends so long as she stops at the designated time - this is an exercise I am doing with her to build trust and teach her that regardless of temptation she MUST learn to follow the rule in the face of temptation to meet her "phone curfew". Why? Because she needs to learn to meet curfew without me standing over her taking the phone, so when she is older she will be home by curfew simply because it is curfew. So far, so good. Especially after I explained to her that she is being TRAINED to follow the curfew rule and the reason for the rule is because it is my rule and you follow it or you get nothing. She called it "Radical acceptance" something she learned in the hospital treatment.
4. She received access to the facebook back but only in the living room, only when we are not watching our DVRed TV show, and only when we are able and willing to be in the living room watching something on TV in the same room to monitor her on facebook. Again, the laptop is password protected and only *I* have the password now..
5. We have her in counseling. I have an appointment for her with a psychiatrist.
6. Positives for me to remember about SD12STB13: She has NEVER said "I hate you" to me, not once. She has NEVER said "you're not my mom". She has NEVER called me a bitch or anything of that sort. What she has done was written "you don't love me; you don't want me; no one likes me; everyone hates me", which is obviously something inside her from depression or something (I have had those self-depreciating feelings and feeling unlovable, so I can relate and understand).
7. She does have a problem with impulse and depression - I don't know if it is just depression or if it is something like borderline personality disorder. She DOES want to be a good kid- I mean, she wouldn't have mentioned Skype at all and reminded me that I had not checked her Skype logged it in and showed it to me if she didn't WANT to get caught, ya know? She really does WANT to be good, but it's like with some of these things she just can't for some reason (like me and cupcakes I guess? I can't not eat a cupcake if it is in the freezer..) She has fear of abandonment big time too, and constant fear that I don't or won't love her. I DO get it, but at the same time, it just gets overwhelming and a lot of pressure on me too. So, it could be impulse control or it could be self-sabotage that she is doing.
8. Validation: I always listen to her day after school, I always validate her feelings and tell her I understand and try to help her understand "perception" versus "reality", but that her feelings are valid regardless and that I accept her feelings. I also try to give her appropriate consequences rather than punish out of anger. I NEVER resend a consequence either; once it is given, it is given for the full length- I am very very consistent if anything.
I know she wants to be good, I also know that no kid is going to be perfect, every child is going to do some sneaking, some lying, and some rule breaking. I understand she has a problem and am trying to get her through, but with me having my own health issue, it is just so overwhelming at times I feel like I am going to crack if I don't vent or spew somewhere, know what I mean?
9. Good points:
A. Tonight, SD12STB13 came to me and said essentially - "I know it seems like I have broken every rule and you must be really disappointed with me..I don't know why I keep doing it, but I DO feel guilty about it..and that is why I rat myself out..I'm not stupid, I knew what I was doing when I showed you the Skype, I knew you would look at Boy's name and see that I Skyped him when told not to, that is why I opened Skype and showed you the PW in the first place...I needed to come clean; when I told you I didn't text after 10pm that night 'on myyyy phone' it wasnt because I was stupid, i knew what i was saying and that you would catch that i had texted on friend's phone...I felt bad and wanted to get caught.."
B. She said, and mom, please remember, I didn't break ALL the rules there are three really big rules I never broke: Never drank an alcohol, never touched a drug, and never had sex on anyone or kissed anyone (that is her phrasing "sex on someone" hur hur hur)- she went on to say that she realized in the hospital that some rules she might think are stupid or pointless, but her psychiatrist taught her "Radical Acceptance" and that a rule is a rule regardless of whether she thinks it is pointless or not and she said she realizes that even if she thinks it is stupid, its like a cop rule being stupid its still a cops rule and you still cannot drive 55 in the 35 street, even if it seems stupid that you cant or you get a ticket. This made me proud- plus the Skype sneaking was before her in-patient treatment.
So, speculation: she does have a conscious about it. It has to be either impulse control or self-sabotaging behavior. It's like she feels so bad about herself maybe she WANTS to get caught and punished maybe to prove to herself that we really DONT love/like her and she is right? I don't know. I never finished my graduate degree in psychotherapy, I only did one semester and quit. I always tell her I am disappointed in the action/behavior, maybe that I am mad, but I always tell her I still love her.
What I do know is I *have* to let off my initial pissed off'ed ness here or in a journal she cannot find so that I CAN remain "professional" and "calm" with her and listen and validate feelings without my own initial personal feelings of being offended or insulted not coloring MY perception and MY interactions with her, especially being so very pregnant and so VERY off my medications myself...it is extremely NOT easy, but I am trying my hardest to do my best.
I hope counseling helps. Believe it or not, she IS a sweet girl.
Edited to add: Definitely never a threat of hospitalization, I think that is horrible. I have told her that if I ever think she is any danger to herself that I would have her in the ER so fast her head would spin, but it was said in a very clearly "because I love you" fashion and not as a threat. It was also explained that it will be a while before she is allowed to spend the night with a friend because she has to build up some trust that she will not do something like get in their medications or something else. No friends spending the night with us right now, she needs to work on other things at home for a couple weeks.
I will not deny her having a friend over in a couple weeks, will not deny her a good Christmas, nor deny her a birthday party. I understand she is experiencing an emotional/mental illness and am doing my best to be supportive, patient, and understanding, even though it is extremely hard and I have to work through my own issues. Lucky for us, I am self-aware enough to realize this and to find other ways to face my perception issues, emotional lability issues/depression and work very hard not to allow my issues to color my interaction with her - it still does, as I have irritable and "depressive state" days, but I try very hard and work diligently at it to do my best.
Still, then I wonder could she have got it from me??? Obviously not genetically, but FFS she acts like my god damn clone some times and it is frustrating as hell. Especially when she starts showing the depression and paranoia. I hate that. I hope taking her to the ER and in-patient helps her; I always wished someone would have taken me to the hospital when I was a tween, i bet if I got help my tween-young adulthood would have been so much better. That is my hope with her that with counseling and medication and family counseling, things will improve for (and with) her.
Still frustrating as hell though.
I finally crack. I cry all
I finally crack. I cry all night and all morning. Dog shit the bed, I left him in bedroom and slept on couch (DH left 5am for work). He bark, scratch, cry all fucking morning= no sleep. Shit all over the floor, pissed everywhere in here on rug. I'm done.
DH fight and scream at me a couple weeks ago and leave.
My mother verbally/emotionally abusive then trash talk me to everyone in family and my siblings un-friend me on facebooks and call me names - I didn't do anything either, literally, nothing wrong.
SD and everything I posted.
Grandparents didn't come to shower and won't come for baby because is too far and are up cousin's asshole.
Nothing done for baby, keep putting off for SD, which I don't resent I understand, but I can't do any more.
I just want one good memory of my only pregnancy and now I am 38 weeks and nothing. DH and I went to Applebee's twice and that's the good memory. I have to work all weekend and I was sick yesterday and so I have to do three hours of work AND I HAVE TO PAY THE COMPANY FOR THE WORK BECAUSE IT IS LATE- NOT THAT I JUST DO IT FREE, BUT *I PAY THEM ON TOP OF THAT*. Then I have to do another five hours of work. Then work all week until i am 39 weeks, deal with SD. I have no family to come see my baby, no grandparents for him. I have to clean the house today. I haven't even packed a bag for the hospital. I don't even fucking care any more. Who gives a fuck. I've been unable to eat, throwing up, and anxiety through the roof, trying not to fall into the depressive cycle of the bipolar off medication, but it's like all these assholes are TRYING to just push me of the cliff. These other assholes have my cell phone number and call every fucking morning with some bullshit advertising and won't fucking STOP. It smells like piss and shit in here, ruined the rug, rubbed shit on the sheets, just bark bark bark bark bark bark whiiiiiinee FUCK he can't stay in the room alone for just a couple fucking hours so I can get a little bit of sleep.
Dog is fucking happy now at least. SD is fucking happy now. DH is fucking happy now. I love them all, but I can't take any more shit seriously. I said it weeks ago, and more and more SHIT. My OB said stop stressing her out...and more and more SHIT.
I have half a mind to go stay in a hotel room the last two weeks.
1. You are in late pregnancy
1. You are in late pregnancy meltdown! Life is not as bad as it seems! When your baby arrives you will be over the moon and most of this rubbish stuff will cease to even matter for a while. The rant you have written above covering all annoyances and all the stuff not done is completely understandable and part of the hormone rollercoaster. You want to be prepared, for everything to be perfect, and you feel like it isn't. When it's your first and everything is unknown the pressure feels even more intense. But very few of us actually have everything perfect and well prepared before the baby arrives. Go and do something nice for you, and by all means go and spend the night in a hotel if it gives you a break and a chance to calm down.
2. Your SD sounds exactly like mine. Untrustworthy, but resents not being trusted and cannot see the connection between her own behaviour and loss of trust and freedom. Breaks every rule which matters but not in an in-your-face rebellious way but by stealth. Takes a mile every time you give an inch. Appears pleasant and lovely on the surface but with a fragile ego and tendency to neurotic, attention seeking behaviour. Precocious with boys. Targets the partners of friends and other unsuitable boys.
I haven't got a lot of hope to offer from my own experience. My SD moved in with us when she was 14. There had been a spate of rule breaking and self destructive behaviour at her mothers. She was obviously troubled but we believed she wanted to change and her behaviour could be nipped in the bud. Despite everything Dh and I did to provide a caring, supportive family life for her and address her problems, including sending her to counselling, she quickly returned to the same behaviour. There were endless lies and deceptions, including lying to the counsellor, who was not up to the job of unravelling SD's insecurity and manipulation. Her self destructive behaviour escalated, including self harming and a full scale eating disorder.
I ended up wracked with anxiety and anger and guilt, and in frequent conflict with DH over parenting her. Pretty much my entire 3rd pregnancy was blighted by anxiety about SD. Eventually after my baby was born I came to realise that nothing I could say or do could fill the void in SD, her problems were getting worse not better, and that I was the only one taking them seriously. Until her parents took them seriously nothing would change. I disengaged, for my own sanity, for the sake of my marriage and my own children.
Like me you may feel like you need to 'fix' SD, and have hope that if you can just do or say the right thing, or keep the faith long enough, your efforts will be rewarded. Given that she is on the cusp of the worst phases of puberty my advice is to start taking a step back now. Continue to behave in a loving, inclusive manner, reassure her that she is still a valued member of your home regardless of the arrival of your baby, but stop taking responsibility for monitoring and managing her behaviour. That should be her Dads' responsibility. If you carry on trying to police her it will cause you stress and drive a wedge between you and DH when you should be enjoying your baby together. He will end up resenting you for giving him bad new about SD, and it will be much easier for him to blame you and shoot the messenger than address her behaviour. If you back off now it will encourage him to step up more and take you out of the firing line. And give you more time to focus on enjoying your baby.