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How do you stop this behavior?

Unhappy's picture

So SS almost 6 has been having issues lately with having huge melt downs (temper tantrums) when being dropped off at school or picked up. It always happens on BM's week or the start of DH's week when BM drops him and SD off at school. He had a freak out the third week of school where he decided that he didn't want to go and wanted to go with BM to work instead. After she was able to get him into the classroom he lost it attacked the door. Kicked and hit the door and finally make it out into the hallway where he chased BM down. BM ended up taking him to work that day.

The week before last BM took SS into school late due to taking him to the doctor. SS again had one of his freak outs so BM called DH and told him he needed to come down to the school since it was the beginning of DH's week with SS. DH told me that he literally had to restrain SS near the office inside the school while SS was kicking and screaming because he wanted to go with BM. When DH finally let him go SS spit right in his face infront of the principal and we're not talking sticking your tounge out and blowing. He literally spit in DH's face.

Yesterday DH went to pick up my BD from school and when SS saw him he lost it. BM had one of her friends there to pick SS up and SS decided he wanted to go with DH. DH told me that if he hadn't stayed to try and help BM's friend with SS that SS would have probably gotten hit by a car trying to chase DH through the parking lot. DH had to pick him up and put him in BM's friends SUV and buckle him in. I guess according to DH after BM's friend got into the car SS got out of seat belt and proceeded to try and make it out the front door since the child locks were turned on in the back. From what DH told me he was kicking and hitting BM's friend in an effort to get out the dirver side door so eventually DH just took SS home with him and told BM that she needs to come and pick him up at our house.

When BM finally showed up to pick up SS he had barracaded himself in his room using his toy box. DH had to push his way into the bedroom in order to get him out. Then SS ran out into the back yard, around the side of the house, and took off down the street. When DH got a hold of him and brought him back SS proceeded to run back into the house again. DH went in and got him and told my BD to lock all of the doors and to not let anybody in the house unless it was him. I guess that trick worked because SS went home with BM.

This behavior typically happens on BM's week so I'm not sure if he's being punished for it or not but apparently he has figured out that all he has to do in order to get his way is have a freaking giant melt down where nobody can get him under control and bam, you get what you want.

I tried to talk to DH last night about the fact that he used to think it was so cute when he would show up at the daycare SS used to go to on BM's week to visit SS and when he tried to leave SS would freak out and it would take two daycare workers to restrain him so that DH could leave. Regardless of how this made DH feel I think that no reacting to the situation appropriately (telling SS to stop) has added to SS thinking that this behavior will get him what he wants or that it's even okay to act in this manner.

DH told me that he thinks that it has nothing to do with it. That it's different this time. That SS is finally realizing what happened with the divorce. SS was so little that he doesn't even remember BM and DH ever being together in my opinion but I guess it could affect him like that.

In my opinion, SS feels like he is in control and if he doesn't want to do something like going to school, he just freaks out and screams, kicks, hits and until he gets his way. (I've witnessed this behavior at home.) I think that there has been a lot of behavior that should have been corrected when it was happening but never was which has lead to it escalating to this point. So.....what happens the next time when he doesn't want to go to school and the teacher steps into help and SS kicks and hits her? Is that when the behavior will be corrected? After he gets kicked out of school because of his maturity level?

I have been with DH for almost three years and have seen this kid work DH over from left to right. I have watched him get away with murder without even a word spoken to him about his bahavior. (It has gottne better.) I personally have had to restrain him in the house just because DH needed to go to the grocery store and would have been gone for all of 15 minutes and SS was trying to chase him down the street. And I have noticed that his behavior has gotten worse with these screaming temper tantrums recently.

What do you do to fix this? I've thought about maybe taking him to see somebody but SS won't talk to them. Is this because of the divorce or is it because he is out of control? SD was never like this and she actually remembers her parents being together and remembers the divorce. Any suggestions as to what's going on?

Comments

3familiesIn1's picture

You described some of SS7's behaviour. We are 50-50 and like you, BM seems to have way more issues than we have. The meltdowns at the school finally with constant complaints by the teacher got him into therapy which consisted of a 1 hour session for SS one time and 4 one hour sessions for BM and DH together and was told ADHD.

BM and DH said no to the medication, therapist said ok fine here are 5 things to do at home. BM has done nothing, DH has done 1 thing - they think he is cured yet the teacher is still complaining.....

I will be interested to see what other posters say about this.

I do not like being alone with SS7 - I don't know how to deal with this behaviour - recently one night DH worked late so the kids had to go to bed before he got home, SS7 sobbed for hours over it - nothing I could say could resolve it I literally had no freaking clue what else to do and was angry with DH for putting us both in the situation.

I am frustrated on behalf of SS7 and angry that both parents just feed the problem and choose to do nothing for him.

RedWingsFan's picture

Wow, I'm so sorry you all are going through that. I can imagine how frustrating this must be!

Has the kid been tested for mental issues? Like the poster above me stated, ADHD perhaps? This, to me, sounds exactly like you said it could be - control. And if his fits/tantrums are reinforced by BM or DH giving in, well then he has no reason to stop throwing them!

My first suggestion would be to sit DH down and have a serious discussion about his child's outbursts. He's violent and needs to have this brought under control somehow, whether it be through therapy, medicine or a combination. He's only going to get worse and will be stronger and inflict more damage the bigger he gets!

Then I'd have him tested for various mental issues and seek the advice of a therapist or qualified mental health professional based on the results.

Good luck with this. I am definitely not envious of your position!

Unhappy's picture

This is what I think too. Things have gotten worse since it's been working. Another example of what I'm talking about is Thanksgiving. We had both SS and SD for Thanksgiving day and when DH went to drop SS and SD off at their uncles house, where BM was, SS freaked out and wouldn't allow BM to pry him off of DH so it was decided between the two of them that SS would stay the night at DH's house. Now SS was sick and was running a fever so I know it's common for young kids to get grumpy, but as soon as DH tried to put PJs on SS he freaked out because he wanted to stay in his clothes, even though it was almost bedtime, and wanted to go back to his moms. DH told him no many times but eventually SS got what he wanted and ended up at his mom's house for the evening.

dledden's picture

If his tantrums are REINFORCING the behavior, U know, in the end he wins, it won't ever stop. i have this same argument with my new hubby over his kid. i say no to something, kid goes to daddy, who has daddy guilt over the kid having a deadbeat, absent biomom, and gives in and the kid gets what he wants. Bad enough i lost it in therapy and this week hubby has to ATTEND WITH ME so the therapist can try to get him to understand that if he wants me to co parent this kid, he has to have my back. Good luck!! Also, yes, he needs a psych eval, sounds like he may need an emotional support classroom.

Unhappy's picture

Can you do an emotional support class for an almost 6 year old? DH's idea of dealing with SS's outbursts is to wait in his car out in the school parking lot until he sees that SS has been picked up and is gone before he gets my BD. To me, this isn't fixing the behavior. It's being so scared and embarassed that he'll do it again that DH is hiding from the situation instead of correcting it. It's almost like he expects it to go away if he doesn't have to deal with it.

Unhappy's picture

I talked with DH about it and he promises me that he is going to curb his spending habit on the credit card. He told me that he will work over time in order to pay off his debt faster and even offer to cash out his IRA, to which I told him hell no too. He promises that he will work harder on his kids and stop just assuming that I have it out for them when I am enforcing rules that both he and I came up with and agreed upon.

What I was going to do it try to see it they will let me work two weeks at the site located in another state and two weeks back at the site that I am at now but unfortunately they will want me there full time. The offer for the job still stands at this point.

I guess it comes down to what I want. I want DH to pull his head out of his butt and start to realize that it's not me vs. his family. I want him to realize what I want out of this. He's always talking about everything he does for everybody else and how he does nothing for himself. Well....that's a two way street.

I still get frustrated with him even after we had the talk. Just last night he was making some interesting statements. He's always trying to put a move on me when it's super late and I flat out told him last night that my job requires me to at least get a decent amount of sleep and if he wants to haev sex he needs to iniate it sooner in the evening. He freaked out and told me that he is no longer going to be making moves anymore because he's always getting shot down. No Duh DH. I just told you why. Then he got all pissy because I let the four pound dog sleep in bed with us. The god sleeps next to my stomach and hardly ever touches him. She does however try to attack him in the mornings when he tries to give me a kiss. (She's my protector, or at least she thinks she is.) Even if she got him she couldn't break the skin and I usually always catch her before she gets to him. So now he's telling me that he is refusing to give me any good morning kisses if I let the dog sleep in the bed.

My question is, what about what I want? I want a good nights sleep. Is that to much to ask for? Apparently I just need to give it up to DH whenever he wants it regardless of whether or not it's convenient for me or else. What about the fact that I have always had a dog sleep with me ever since I was little. It's comforting. As soon as she curls up in a little ball righ by my stomach I feel relaxed and safe. Nope it's about what DH wants and if he doesn't get his way then he will with hold stuff from me or will just quit making an effort until he gets his way. I just don't get it.

mrs.g's picture

its because hes in control. kids are very manipulative by nature. they dont think about it... its instinct. this kid knows if he kicks and screams ans spits he can get his way. stay strong snd do not give it any attention! youre the boss not him and you shouldnt let a child dictate how long it takes you to drop him off at school.

AdviceSeekingSM's picture

Wow, I am not in your situation and it would be difficult. Has anyone tried spanking? Simply not giving in? Time outs? Telling him no? It sounds like he is getting rewarded for his behaviour. I do not think this sounds like ADHD. This sounds like a stubborn child who is manipulating his parents and every adult around him. The teachers aren't complaining, so he can control it, it is not a mental issue. Why would any parent think is ok to take a child to work, especially if he act like this? Apparently he doesn't always which means he can control it. Again an indication that he doesn't need medicine, he need firm, consistent discipline and structure. In every scenario he got exactly what he wanted. Attention. Negative, positive, he doesn't care. I would let him scream, cry, kick, and act a fool. If he ran out of the house that would result in a spanking. He is risking his life with his fits, I would rather him have a red fanny than be dead. Drastic behavior calls for drastic measures. Best book and class I ever read and attended was Love and Logic. I would like to suggest that book to you. I'm sorry if I seem harsh, but I feel like you have a sincere issue on your hands and you are really looking for advice.

sasha101's picture

My ss's did the same thing - violent tantrums that went on for hours when they couldn't get their own way. The only way to stop it is not to give in to them, ever. This kid is using these tantrums as a way of controlling his parents and they're allowing him to do it. He will not stop doing it while they keep giving in and letting him get his own way. Don't want to go to school? Tough luck, you're going. Don't want to go with mum/dad? Tough luck, you're going. However loud, embarrassing and inconvenient these tantrums are, his parents need to start dealing with it properly and not letting him get away with it.

When my ss's started with their tantrums dh put them in their room and told them calmly but firmly to stop. He would walk away and leave them to scream - if they're not getting an audience there's not much point carrying on. If they tried to come out of their room to scream on the landing, he would calmly take them back to their room without speaking to them or even making eye contact, so they weren't getting the required attention, as kids having tantrums is an extreme way of attention seeking and the longer you try to discuss/negotiate/comfort them the more they'll milk it. DH would take things away the longer the tantrum went on - first a favourite toy, then another and so on. We had reward charts which dh filled in with them every day with the understanding that a full week of good marks would earn them a treat at the weekend so they had something to work towards. If they misbehaved the treat was cancelled without exception and they were told why. They also lost their tv/computer privileges and their things for a few days until they earned them back with good behaviour. It worked, as they learnt that no meant no whether they had a tantrum or not, they'd still have to do/not do the thing they'd had a tantrum about in the first place and they'd earn a punishment as well. We did give them attention and praised and encouraged good behaviour without going overboard so they knew that it was in there interests to behave themselves. It is more difficult when you're in public but we have dealt with tantrums while out and have simply put them straight in the car and taken them home having a massive hissy fit in the back seat, and they've been sent straight to their room when we got home.

Having tantrums at school is a bit more tricky. Dh had this when ss's first started school and he just calmly told them he was going, they were staying at school and then walked away. Within a couple of minutes they had calmed down as they realised they were not getting to go home with dh and the staff were able to distract them quite easily after leaving them in a safe place on their own for a few minutes to calm down. I don't know if this would work with your ss, but it would be worth his parents having a talk with the staff to see how they can deal with it together without giving in to ss. The suggestion of counselling/therapy is a good one as ss may have anger issues which need dealing with.

Unhappy's picture

Within a couple of minutes they had calmed down as they realised they were not getting to go home with dh and the staff were able to distract them quite easily after leaving them in a safe place on their own for a few minutes to calm down

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Although this is great advise there is no way that this would work with SS. He would get himself run over. It's not that he isn't afaid of getting hurt. He just wants what he wants and he's not taking no for an answer. DH has gotten better at parenting SS but there was such a huge chunk of his life where he wasn't being parented that this is one of the issues that has "arrived" because of it.

I don't think the SS gets punished for this behavior at BM's house which is why I think he continues to do it. Another reason is both DH and BM give into the behavior. Why should he stop? He's getting exactly what he wants by acting this way.

outofplace's picture

This sounds overly simple.. But do you try talking to him? Like getting on his level and calmly talking to him about why he is so upset? My stepson is 6, has anger issues, and ADHD. But his behavior is totally different in each house. Here he is much calmer, kinder, and less angry. And according to the therapist he's a completely different child at his BM's house. She seems to believe it's because we talk to SS6 and work through his problems with him.

For example: Like all boys he hates cleaning his room. A couple months ago I sent him to clean his room, I told him he couldn't play at his friends house till it was done. He proceeded to have a complete melt down. Slamming doors, screaming how unfair it was, throwing things in his room, hyper ventilating. I just left him in his room for awhile.

Eventually he calmed down a little. I asked him if he had a "good cause" or a "bad cause"? (buddhist teachings) He hung his head in shame he said it was "bad cause" so he had "bad effect". We talked for a little while about how he could turn it into a "good cause". He apologized, gave me a huge hug, made me a card, and cleaned his room.

Now the same thing happened at his BM's house recently. He was told to clean his room and he had a total melt down but instead of calmly dealing with him, BM proceeded to scream back at him, physically punish him, and leave him in his room. SS6 in the end felt angry, hurt, lonely, and didn't clean his room at all.

I realize your situation is very different seeing as your SS has grown adults giving into his every whim so long has he cries hard enough, long enough... But most problems with small children can be cured with understanding, and we can't understand if we don't talk to them. It worked for me anyway! Smile

Unhappy's picture

The talking thing might work the only issue is he won't talk about it. I don't think he truly understands why he freaks out or at least he doesn't have a good reason for it. Usually when DH tries to talk to him he'll start crying and everytime you try to raise your voice a little over the crying just so you can be heard he cries louder. If you raise your voice again he cries louder. Eventually of you kept it up he would be screaming at the top of his lungs for no other reason other then he wants to and doesn't want to listen to what anybody has to say.

I've also noticed recently that he's constantly trying to get his sister in trouble, which she has no problem doing her self. She won't even be in the room with him and he'll be yelling at her to stop. Because SD has had all sorts of behavior problems DH just jumps her a$$ most of the time. (Understandable, you'll have to read through some of my past blogs to understand.) SS used to try and kick my BD out of DH's lap and onto the floor because he wanted to be the only one sitting in it.

I understand that some of these behaviors can be considered normal at one point and time or another based off of age but if they are not corrected then the behaviors continue onto later stages of development where they are no longer acceptable and that's what we are dealing with now.

RedWingsFan's picture

That's the hard part. I haven't been in your shoes, but I'm sure DH is not seeing the kid's tantrums for what they really are. He's just thinking "oh he's a kid, this is normal" and taking the easy way out knowing the kid will stop his shit if he gives him what he wants.

I had to point this out to my DH on several occasions with SD14 when she was younger. She'd do the pouting/crying and running off to her room thing the minute he'd say no, then he'd feel bad and give in. Once I had my daughter explain to him that if her dad treated her like that, she'd act up too!

When he got it and wasn't giving in anymore, she resorted to telling lies to BM to try and get DH in "trouble" with her mother. At first, of course, BM would call raging at DH for destroying their precious daughter's feelings and yada yada. Finally, I told him to STOP taking her calls especially when she's screaming at him for nothing. Eventually, she stopped calling for every little thing SD whined about.

You could approach DH in a logical way - meaning you'd say "You know, you're only harming SS in the long run by teaching him it's ok to become violent and abusive just to get the things he wants. Can we please try a different approach? NEVER give in to the tantrums and see how he reacts? If he doesn't have an audience to give him the attention he is wanting, maybe he'll stop acting up so much?"

I don't know. You're in a tough spot. If DH is set in his ways with this kid, there may not be anything at all you're able to do to get him to see the light!

I wish you the best. That's hard.

Unhappy's picture

Red,

Is this normal behavior for a child SS's age? I don't think it is but I've been worng before.

RedWingsFan's picture

I wish I could answer that for you. I'm not a psychologist or mental health professional at all.

I do know that I've seen kids the same age as your SS throwing tantrums and fits and their parents giving in and it makes me LIVID. DH has childhood friends that have a 5 1/2 yr old son. I refuse to go to their home anymore for parties or events. This kid is SO ill behaved that I honestly can't stand to be around him for more than 15 minutes. He screams, cries, throws things, hits his parents, slams doors, shoves his baby sister, and otherwise causes so much drama and chaos. His parents ignore him completely until one of them can't stand it and gives him exactly what he was pitching the fit about.

I asked the mother once "don't you think that by giving in, you're only reinforcing this bad behavior?" She said "Well, he's JUST a baby, he's only 5 - he doesn't know how to express his wants any differently". Yeah ok, whatthefuckever. And this is not a child of divorce. His parents have been married 15 yrs, he's almost 6 and his baby sister (who is an absolute angel) is 2. This is no guilty parent syndrome - this is the new wave of 'give them everything they want' parenting. It's what is creating these kids like SD14 who thinks the entire earth revolves around her and she is in control of her parents.

I wish I could help honey. I really really do. I couldn't imagine myself with DH if SD was that bad and he was enabling her for so long. I would've left and kept my sanity!

outofplace's picture

Give me your DH phone # and I'll chew him out!... yeah, I'm at a loss as to how to make these men see what they're doing to their kids.. You would think it was obvious! :/

Oh! I just remembered something I did a long time ago with SS. He was probably 3 at the time. He was throwing a massive fit, and just like you said your SS does, he would cry louder or flail around when you tried to talk to him, so I screamed like a baby at the top of my lungs and pretended to cry (mimicking him). He froze and just stared at me. I stopped and said "are you ready to talk?" The kid was so dumbfounded he forgot what he was crying about! lol 2 can play the tantrum game!