When did new moms become so dependent??
25years ago, when I had my 2 children and SD, DH and I avoided asking other people to watch them as much as we could. My parents were dead, my MIL had a job so for weekends, we changed jobs and worked opposite shifts so one of us was home with the kids.
Now, SD had her 2nd child about 2 months ago so she has a toddler now and infant. During the week, they're in daycare. Her hubby works Saturdays so every single Saturday since the baby has arrived, she packs up the kids, drives an hour and comes here and stays until her hubby comes home that night. Now, we get along quite well and I'm considered the grandmother, not her mom, so I am grateful for that. But, she has yet to spend a full day alone with her own children and constantly wants another adult around.
And it's not just her- my retired neighbor has 2 daughters- one of them has only 1 child- and she says every day, they are calling and wanting her to come and help them with the children. One of them lives 2hours away and expects my neighbor to drop everything and drive to her house to help with her children. And the daughter with one kid- WTH that she can't handle 1 child? All 3 of these moms are married; husbands work but the dads are around and participate in raising the kids.
What happened to young mothers nowadays? Is this truly the expected trend that new or young mothers can't be alone and raise their own children anymore even for a day? What is this constant need for another person to be there with them so they're not the only adult in the house? My own bio children haven't started their families yet; I hope this is not the expectation that I'm supposed to be the 3rd parent.
If you can get awsy with it....
I'm flashing back 50+ years to my days as young mom to my 2 bios. I was immature and had "undeveloped" housekeeping skills. If I could have gotten somebody to help with my kids, I would have jumped at it, as much as possible. As it was, I imposed upon my own MIL a lot and the poor woman worked full time as a cleaning lady. I was clueless.
I'm guessing that if these young mom's had to, they'd handle it.
I just read a letter in an advice column from a new mother
I just read a letter in an advice column from a new mother who was having her mother stay with her at night and help with night feedings because she didn't want to do them all, and her husband wouldn't help because he had to work during the day. Her brother was called her out on it because he felt like she was taking advantage of their mother's willingess to help. The letter writer honestly couldn't see anything wrong with what she was doing, even though her mother was worn out. Most of the comments thought the letter writer was in the wrong.
I am not sure it is "now days
I am not sure it is "now days". I think it is a factor/lack of individual quality, lack of quality in their parents, and not purely a current breeding generation thing.
My SIL is one of these. She would dump my niece, and nephews on my parents frequently. She would dump them on my brother the second he got home. She was a SAHM, never had a career., is a trust fund baby, and went from daddy & SM, mommy and StepDad supporting her to... my brother supporting her. My brother worked insane hours and when he got home it was his time to care for the home and the kids. She often gave them to my parents to "get a break" during the day when she had at least half of every day off and more. Since she dumped it all on my brother the second he got home.
My DW never struggled w
ith this, not even as a single 16yo mom. She workd, went to school full time, and raised her baby with minimal help from her parents. She did have significant support from the parents of one of her BFFs who were foster parents and would care for my SS while DW finished her Sr. year of HS, worked, and dealt with the Spermidiot and SpermClan drama. But once she graduated and left for University with a 1yo on her hip it was all her all of the time. The only benefits she had was medical insurance for SS, $1/day child care, and WIC. She worked 3 jobs, was a full time college student, and got her deceased BioDad's VA education benefits. He was killed a few days before my MIL found out she was pregnant with DW.
We had the work time model when DW wa a SAHM. Work time was from when I left for work, until I got home. Then it was our time to care for the home, family and kid. Care of the kid, home, bills, etc... was her work when I was at work. We have modified that model as our family status has evolved. Work time is still work time though with two careers work time is at the office/plant usually. When I am between roles, work time is still work time but I am the one taking care of the home, shopping, cooking, etc... When we were expats and DW was on her mid career hiatus tyhat model held with adjustments for having house keeping included with our housing.
Our son is 6mos older than my niece. We never once driopped him off on my parents. They would call and ask us to bring him by. We would usually do that when they asked. That was so they could have all 4 of their grandspawn with them.
My parents have very close friends where the wife is basically still raising their middle aged DD, raising her kids, and is their Son-ILs house spouse. She cleans their home, cooks all of the meals, takes their kids to classes, etc.... Dad's USMC buddy does none of that crap but basically does what his DW tells him to do. They can be on a vacation and when their DD calls, the wife will immediately pull the plug on the vacation and rush back to deal with whatever their middle aged completely incapable DD cries about. These friends of my parents are in their late 70s to early 80s at this point. Their 40s DD is a waste of skin.
These are products of poor parenting. They have never learned personal responsibility or personal accountability. They do not have the character to step up and care for or raise their own children so... the dump that on others including having those people continue to raise them. There is no character instilled in them by their failed parents. for them to finish growing up on their own time or their own dime to become fully self capable viable adults
. That... is as much on their failed parents as it is on them. If not more.
IMHO of course
Aside from the fact this new
Aside from the fact this new generation has the survival/fitness skills of a flea......
....raising a freaking team no sleep newborn AND cranky needy toddler together would probably send me first class trip to the loony bin lol ... I'd be calling up every trustworthy grandparent, aunt, cousin, whoever to help
Its funny though because people keep procreating knowing they can't handle what's already on their plate. But I suppose at least they're trying and not abusing those kids however dumping the kids off on whoever will take them could be borderline neglect if if goes too far
You could try asking her
You could try asking her about it. Maybe she does feel overwhelmed or scared to be alone, or perhaps she prioritizes her kids having a relationship with the extended family. Or maybe there is something about their house that makes having the two kids there with one adult really difficult.
Okay, I have to......
You say the husband works..
You say the husband works.. but does the SD work as well (need for daycare?)
If so, I guess I can see how a home where she works full time during the week.. then cares for her kids after (father maybe doesn't help her much?) that she appreciates a day each week where the kids get some grandma time and she gets a little help?
I know many families operate differently. My OSD's MIL actually quit HER job to be able to stay home and be available to watch the grandkids... but in my mind.. "you birthed them.. you wanted them.. you raise them..lol" Of course, I'm not a bio to these kids.. and not a big fan of caring for kids (did very little babysitting as a teen).. so I am NOT the one they want to turn to.
I think my OSD is a bit dissapointed that her dad and I don't want to be more involved in helping them raise their kids.. but I have made it pretty clear I'm not up for it. My DH has taken the kids on his own from time to time.. but not with me.
I agree that asking might help.. I do think 25 years ago.. it may have been more common for people to live near family where they grew up... and fewer mothers worked... thougth more than 50 years ago.. but still.. if you aren't working and have more of a peer group of not working friends with kids.. perhaps you will need less family help?
Agreed.
You birthed them, you raise them. DH and I both work full time and have outside interests. Babysitting does not fit in with our lifestyle.
I did not ask for help with my children, I wanted to be with them when I wasn't working.
I also realize I MAY feel different when my kids have children, will have to wait and see.
Young adults are definitely different how
A lot of them don't drive anymore. A lot of them are scared to talk on the phone. Just look at all those young people that did the wells Fargo "glitch" that didn't realize they were committing check fraud.
?
I have noticed this! What do you think drives this trend?
I think it has to do with
I think it has to do with opportunity. People will take,advantage if there's someone around who's willing to take on some of the work.
I don't think it's new either. My SIL had her parents keep her children every day except for Sundays. My MIL had a degenerative neural syndrome that we were unaware of at the time and she tried to stop taking them because she really didn't feel up to it. However, FIL persisted in taking them. Besides, SIL claimed she couldn't find alternative daycare anywhere. Yeah, sure. In a city the size of Marseille, what are the chances? The lived about half a mile apart so it was easy to drop her kids off... plus it was free.
Mine were born 12 years after them. We lived over an hour's drive away from the ILs and my family lived at the other end of the continent. It never occurred to us to ask anyone else to help - these were our daughters and our responsibility. I cut back my hours at work and we found the perfect daycare in our village, population 4000... The rest was all teamwork.
Most families now have two
Most families now have two full time working parents- back in the day one parent would stay home.
At least back to the late
At least back to the late 1940's. My grandmother (a farmer's wife) hired a house keeper and her daughter to help keep the house and look after her children. I'm pretty sure they were there helping 5 days a week.
In some cultures, er, families
In many families in my area, gma is conscripted because 1. Shes there, and not working 2. shes family and trusted 3. They say there is good bonding with gma and keeps her "young".
Ohhhhh this is a great topic.
Ohhhhh this is a great topic. I blame the parents of the adult kids.
Have you seen all the social media videos where the young parents (mostly MOMS go figure) are bashing Granny and Pop pop when they say NO to keeping the gkids?
I was reading comments where Grannys were saying they watch the Gkids 5 to 6, days a week. The one Granny said she changed her work schedule to watch the gkids all day long THEN she works nights. What is the world? Hundreds and hundreds of Grannys wear this as a badge of honor.
I say all that because it ties all together. Moms like this do NOT know what to do with their kids. THEY are seeing all over Tic Tok other moms pawning the kids off at Grannys for weekends AND all summers. Its nuts.
You are going to have to say NO---WE have plans. If you don't start now, you can kiss your time off from work, summer and then retirement goodbye because you are a built in babysitter.
Interesting!
I don't have Tic Tok, I spend some time on IG. What I notice about IG is that the algorithm provides more content of what you frequently view. I haven't seen the trend you mention, instead I am seeing young moms posting about MILs and their poor relationships with them...there seems to be a lot of hatred for MILs. I find the topic fascinating because I am interested in the 'why'. Which comes first? Overbearing MIL vs. snotty DIL? I am seeing a trend where DILs are cutting off the in-laws, with sons following suit. It seems so hateful! A common theme is moms not wanting to let go of sons and treating their wives poorly. Some sons stand up for their wives, some don't. Again, whose poor behavior comes first? MIL vs. DIL? In the situations I'm seeing, the paternal grandparents are cut off from the grandchildren. So no babysitter requests.
Human nature and the way our minds work is fascinating to study!
i agree, it is on the parents to set limits with their adult children. Some do not seem able to. I think future generations will be different though, I see a lot of 'me, me, me' behavior.
Is it the overbearing mommy
Is it the overbearing mommy jealous of their kids spouse? Or is it the insecure new spouse trying to separate their partner from the partner's family?
Or... is is both?
My SIL succeeded with this for many years. My brother separated from us for about a decade. She threated to take his kids if he did not do what she demanded. At that time we were early in our careers after graduating from engineering school together. He and I were extremely close. After his first kid was born things were okay but there was some fading in closeness between him and me and mom and dad. After his second kid was born she demanded that he not have much if anything to do with us. It was heartbreaking.
Mom and dad were Expats at the time and my brother and I lived abour 1/4 mile down the steet from each other. The same street. When mom and dad would come home on annual repat leave they would usually alternate between staying with us and staying with my brother's family. That ended. No explaination until I finally had a come to Jesus discussion with my brother. He shared that she had lost her mind, threatened to take his kids, and he could not let that happen. My advice was what he cals the "kick her in the ass" speech. That was the last real talk we had for several years. We worked together, were basically neighbors. It was soul wrenching for me.
I had nightmares about losing my brother. Literally wake up unable to breath terrors about losing him. Every one of those included her being unimpacted by his demise. I was distraught, she was her usual sweet facade self and his demise had zero impact on her. Fortunately, those were nightmares. Though they were terrorizing.
After a while my brother and I did have lunch. He shared that his DW had access to her trust fund and her parents would fund a divorce and getting custody of his kids. I get that, but.... his DW was curl up in the bathtub for days in the fetal position batshit crazy. Interestingly when I advised him to get a lawyer, talk with mom and dad, and get ready to put his DW in the rubber room and gain protective custody of his kids. His response was interesting. He stood on the hill that growing up it was him, me & mom and dad. We were not particularly close to either set of GPs. We would visit each side of the family for a week or two each year. So what was wrong with him raising his family like we were raised? I was dumbfounded. We always have been exceptionally close. We being us and our parents.
Conversely, when DW and I married it was seamless. We integrated into my family. Mom and dad were immediately accepting of DW and SS. My ILs, took a few years to get there.
It has taken decades for there to be some closeness between my brother and our parents. Largely driven by his kids who worship their GPs. They are all exceptionally close to mom and dad. Much of all of this is IMHO due to very strained relationships between my SIL and her blended family. Her dad passed when she and my brother had been married for maybe 5 years. Her SM is a drunk who blew her dad's significant assets. Her mom is one messed up individual who has been in a miserable marriage that she will not leave because SIL's SF is loaded and her mom has the perspective that she is owed. Her mom is a trust fund baby and wealthy in her own right, but.... chooses to be miserable and make anyone and everyone miserable rather than just keeping her misery to herself.
My brother has considered ending it a number of times over the years and has long maintained that he has 4 kids. His DW has not been a real partner. She is a heart of gold sweet heart who really can't function in the world. She went from being supported by her divorced parents to being supported by my brotrher. While she is sweet, etc... she is entirely self absorbed. Always has been. Even her kids were about her and not really about them. She was the helicopter imom nsanely over scheduling the kids mom who was the 9-5 mom then dump them on their father as soon as he got home. As they had their kids (3) and mom and dad retired and built their retirement home a couple of miles from my DW and me, and my brother and SIL, she started dumping the kids on them during the work day fairly regularly. It has always been interesting to me that she went from doing anything and everything to separate my brother from his own family, to using mom as her drop in day care so she could do her thing with her shallow supervicial "friends".
As it has worked out, they are in a better place than they have ever been. My brother is still fully aware that she is not a true partner for him but she is the mother of his children. After her cancer battle he has landed on her being in his life and his wife but he is absolutely clear on the reality of that. The kids have all done well. Though his eldest son married someone exceptionally similar to my SIL. Complete with the mental health issues. Hopefully he can avoid having kids with her.
Your question on what came first.... is very interesting to me. Let us know what you find out on this topic.
Please.
It strikes a chord with me and hits pretty close to home. Though my mom is the poster GM and MIL. She is wonderful. As a DIL, my SIL has been an interesting study in the question you highlight above. As time progressed my brother would engage with mom and dad and me. It was interesting. He would route through town on business trips, stay with mom and dad, and just absorb the family. He talked little, just lounged on the sofa napping and, calming his soul. That is how he interfaced with us for a very long time. Interestingly he avoided dad/brothers trips with our dad and me. Even more interestingly, my SIL takes trips with her sister, friends, etc... regularly. Any time my brother said he was in with me and dad, he would back out. He does take trips with his kids. Apparently my SIL is okay with that, but still interferes in my brothers relationship with his own family.
My DW on the other hand, is very supportive of the relationship between me and my family. In fact, she takes trips with my parents when I on international assignments. I do not commit to trips I can't take. I for damned sure do not back out at the last minute, ever. Much less repeatedly. I am sad that SIL has issues. I am more sad that my brother has not had the spine or courage to stand up to her. He is an amazing man who deserves so much better. An actual partner instead of a damaged succubus to spend his life with.
Yes, I have issues on this. It both breaks my heart, and infuriates me.
On a related note, my brother and I agreed many years ago, not long after we both married over 30yrs ago, that neither of us had married someone the other would have chosen for them. SInce then, my brother has on more than one occassion brought up how wrong he was and how incredible my bride is. He has also commented that he wishes he had what DW and I have. Just thinking about that, again breaks my heart, and infuriates me. I want to not have the disdain for my SIL that I have. I want to recognize her challenges, I do regret her cancer, and her obvious mental health issues. But I struggle to give her a get out of jail free card on what she has put my brother through, what she has put my parents through, what she has put me through. My ability for unearned forgiveness is not particularly well developed.
Maybe partly why my empathy for so many in toxic blended marriages who put up with this kind of thing year after year is just about zero. I am more of a "do something about it" person rather than a keep polishing a turd person.
GPs who sucked at raising
GPs who sucked at raising their own kids are likely to do no better at raising their GKs. Though their ill raised next generation breeders are not likely to recognize that they are ill raised and that they are serving their own kids up an a sacrifcial altar not only failed parenting but also failed GrandParenting.
My SS's SpermGrandHag is the poster Hag for this failed breeding and kid raising model. Her son, the Spermidiot is a serial statutory rapist OOWL breeder who was hell bent on impregnating every underage womb in the PAC NW. When he spawned, SpermGrandHag would do everything she could to acquire her Spermidiot spawned GrandSpawn. Including filing fraudulent custody suits against my my then future DW by forging the Spermidiot's signature on the paperwork. She never got my SKid. My DW was all in on preventing that.
The Hag did get my SS's three younger half sibs by two other baby mamas. She did this by paying the baby mamas to give the spawn to the Hag to raise. "CS" was paid to both the baby mamas and the kids lived with SpermGrandHag and SpermGrandPa. Though the youngest two did spend quite a bit more time with the Spermidiot who lived rent free in a rental property owned by his parents. My Skid was only an intermittent visiting kid to that shit show. Spermidiot spawn #2 hates their "father" and has since she was very young. The youngest two worship him.
SS is the only Spermidiot spawned GK not raised by the Hag. My DW made sure that never happened. SS did spend just about all of every visitaiton the SpermClan took with the SpermGrandHag. Fortunately at most that was 7wks a year though over the course of the 16+ years there was a CO there were several periods of a year or more that they refused to take their visitation.
Our kid, my SS-32 is a man of character, honor, and standing in his life, profession, and community. Spawn #2 is on the dole, #3 is in prison, #4 is not far behind the inmate. So, her own son and three of her 4 GKs spawned by her serial statutory rapist son, are shit. The Hag's DD is a loyal fringe cult member in the cult that the Hag belongs to and raised her own kids in. The Hag apparently has limited access to her DD's kids. Whether by design or not, that half of the Hag's gene pool seems to have escaped much of her toxic parenting machinations.
The Interwebs world of failed younger breeders who are dumping their own spawn on their parents is a notable continued indicator of the failures of their own parents.
IMHO of course.
I grieve for the GrandSpawn cursed not only with crap parents, but crap GPs as well.