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BW1607's picture

Hello everyone.
I have a 23-year-old daughter who has been estranged from my family for seven years. 
Since 2017, she will only see me (her dad) about seven or eight times a year for breakfast or lunch.
She has been controlled for years by her mother and was forced to choose between mom's family and mine when she was 17. My daughter denies this, but she is brainwashed and doesn't see the harm her mother is causing.

Long story short, my daughter won't see me or my wife and her adult sons, saying they are not "her family" after years of living half the time with us. She wants me to pay for her graduate school saying I "owe her." Today, she texted me that she wants to go on vacation with me but no one else, including my wife. And I continue to give her money monthly despite how she treats me because I feel like I should be helping her. I am blocked from her social media. My daughter lives with her mother, who controls her life. 

My daughter is a college graduate and has a full time job. She wants me to co-sign for a new car, which I refuse to do.

I have been in great pain for years because even though I love her so much, I don't like the adult she is turning into. She equates love with money. This is NOT how I raised her. 

I have been in therapy trying to deal with losing the adult daughter that I raised from childhood. I want a relationship not centered around money and includes my wife and my family. She wants a relationship with only me but I have to pay up to have even that.

Thanks for reading.

AlmostGone834's picture

I don't pay people to be my lovers, I don't pay people to be my friends, and I sure as heck wouldn't pay someone to be my daughter. Close the wallet, tell your daughter you love her and would like a relationship with her. A real relationship... not one based on money, cars or vacations... and that you'll be waiting for the day when she decides she wants one too. 

 

 

ESMOD's picture

If she does not consider you her family.. then she should not be getting the benefits that come with being part of a family.. including support and other financial incentives.

It is her right, obviously, to associate with the people she wants to.. as an adult.  However, she also needs to accept that while she may not consider your wife her family.. that you do and that you don't take family vacations with out your family.

If I was your wife, I would also have a bit of resentment that a healthy amount of financial resources are leaving my home for the benefit of your daughter.. unless your wife is also subsidizing her own adult children.. and unless this is such a pittance to you.. I might consider putting an end date on that.  

I would also consider this.  If your daughter severs ties with you over cutting off financial support, not paying for her grad school and not cosigning for debt.. then clearly what she loves is the money.. and any relationship to you is very far down on the list.  Telling her you love her.. but purse strings are closed... if she wants to walk away.. you didn't have a real relationship anyway.

And.. it's unfortunate.. and probably true that your daughter has very much aligned with your EX and is taking on her grievances and biases against you and your wife.  It is hard if she relies and lives with your EX to buck that narrative.. because she doesn't have much choice in some ways.. it's tough to walk away when you aren't able to easily support yourself.

If you don't want a relationship that is centered around money.. take that off the table.

As for a vacation without your wife?  That is something you can possibly consider.. if your wife is in favor.  Your wife may have some interest in doing a solo trip with her own adult kids.. so maybe it's not a terrible thing in itself to contemplate that.  But.. if this is just another way she is separating you from cash.. you footing the bill?  I would think hard before really entertaining it.

Stepdrama2020's picture

Saying no to your daughter will be a teachable lesson, to yourself and her.

Tell her love isnt for sale , that is unless you are a lady or gent of the night.

If you "lose" her because of that, then you have to realize that you never really had her. Obviously you love her unconditionaly. Your daughter on the other hand loves you on conditions. Its a hard pill to swallow sir, but toxic is toxic. and it never evolves into a healthy relationship.

The trip thing I am divided on one hand it may be a good idea if your wife is ok with it.. On the other hand  deep down I would think  that this will hurt your wife. Hasnt she been hurt enough by the toxic daughter?  You are choosing to spend time and travel with the very person who threatens your marriage.  Your daughter will feel she has the power to snap her fingers and big daddio comes running regardless how she is. This IMHO.

Embrace the family who treats you with respect. Just because you share DNA does not mean you have to force a one sided relationship.

Blessings

 

lala-land's picture

Sir,  I am so sorry you are going through this.  Your daughter is a grown woman, with a college degree and a job.  She is living in heavily subdized housing (her mothers house) and still expects you to pay for vacations, cars and more college....while shunning your wife and step-siblings.  Hell no, should be the answer to any future financial demands.  What an entitled, spoiled brat.  Stop the monthly cheques now and don't agree to any more of her ridiculous demands.  She has no,respect for you and your family and since she doesn't consider herself as part of your family, she should be treated as you would treat any non-family member would be treated.  Would give co-sign a loan, pay for college, take vacations with or give a monthly stipend to a co-worker that you occasionally had lunch with?  Add to this, you knowing that co-worker disliked your wife and step sons? Treat your daughter the same as you would that entitled co-worker. 

Winterglow's picture

Your daughter has lost her mind. To start with,  you owe her precisely NOTHING. You have paid child support for years. She has now aged out of child support.

She doesn't get to decide who is or isn't her family. If she can't accept your family as hers, she can't make any kind of demand.

If she wants to be  part of your life,  she HAS to accept your family as hers, unconditionally.  Frankly all she wants is hard cash. Don't get sucked in.

Survivingstephell's picture

She has no reason to reflect on her behaviors or attitude because she is still getting rewarded.  Cut her off.  Blood does not mean you keep giving.  You need to teach her how to respect and treat you.  Stand up for yourself.  

CLove's picture

Im in camp StopTheMoneyTrain for your kiddo. She doesnt want a relationship with you for bs reasons but has the nerve to stick her hand out? No thank you.

She sounds like SD25 Feral Forger. Calls husband either by his name or "sperm donor" And only ytexts him when she needs help (moving out of places and cleaning up afterwards) or/and money (can you pay my rent? Half?) without even a thank youverymuch.

notarelative's picture

College graduate. Full time job. Stop sending her money. Let her be an adult. It's not a punishment to let an adult support themself. 

AgedOut's picture

You are paying someone to treat you like crap. stop doing that. what have you really got to lose if you cut off her emotional blackmail? 

Rumplestiltskin's picture

If your daughter is a college graduate, works full time, and lives with her mother, what is the monthly payment you give her for? Despite the money you give her, she still won't accept your wife? Demands you take her on vacay and leave your wife at home? Your wife should post here.

You are not treating yourself as worthy of respect, and your daughter is following your lead. I'm not saying that you just cut your daughter off abruptly, but you should give your daughter an end date, maybe 3 months, then the payments stop. Maybe offer to take her on vacation, you pay, but it's with you and your wife. Idk, just some thoughts on how to make the transition smoother. 

CajunMom's picture

She's officially PAS'd (Parental Alienation Syndrome). Clearly, she's not coming out of it and is actually using her PA as a weapon against you and your wife/children. The next request would come with the talk others have mentioned...."I want a relationship with you that is not about money."

Stop falling for the "you owe me" crap. You've clearly paid everything you need to financially and I will add...paying even more because a 23 year old with a degree and job is clearly able to be financially independent. She's using you. And what is there to loose? You do NOT have a relationship with your daughter due to the heavy PAS by the BM....you are simply an ATM. 

If you are still in therapy, discuss this with the therapist. Discuss PAS, toxic BMs, etc. I'm sorry you are going through this but you need to stop this continual pain being shoved on you and put a firm boundary in place. Either your daughter wants a REAL relationship with you or you need to begin the grieving process of knowing she's been lost to PAS. 

Best to you, Sir. I'm so sorry.

Rags's picture

First, welcome.

I hope that you find this to be a good place to vent, contribute, and to pick up some useful advice and perspective from others who are living the blended family dream.

Now, for some direct and brutal support/tough love. You, are your DD's John, she is your hooker. She gets money, you assuage some guilt feelings by paying her for the illusion of a loving caring relationship towards you.  This is illogical, completely unfounded, and wrong. IMHO. She is wrong for hooking, you are wrong for paying.

This is not a minor child.  You have raised her and likely have finished paying off the womb rental fees you owed her BM for the duration of your Cutody/Visitation/Support CO.  There is no reason you should continue paying for your poor choice in breeding partners.  The CO is done, stop paying for that poor choice.

Tell her to get money from her BM and quote the total you paid in CS, post majority birthday/HS graduation support, and Undergrad costs.  Tell her that it is her mother's turn to support her status as a failure to launch kidult. You are done with the guilty dad payment plan. Or at least you should be.

Time to cut her off completely. You likely have already paid for her Undergrad degree. Grad school needs to be on her. As  should her living expenses, etc... 

NO MORE MONEY to this hooker "pay me to love you daaaadddddddeeeeeeee" failed kidult prostitute.

IMHO of course.

As others have advised, immediatley stop paying her a Cent.  Tell her that you love her and would very much enjoy having a healthy caring father & kidult relationship with her but you will no longer be her money bitch.  For sure, do not ever let her isolate you from your wife.  You need to collect your balls from this kid's purse, and from your XW and your XILs and get on with living YOUR best life.

Which is also how to live a wonderful revenge. You being happy, engaging in your best life, and not wallowing in the shallow and polluted end of your kid's gene pool with her, your XW, and your XILs is a just and enjoyable revenge.

Diablo

Grow a pair man. Be confident, parent her instead of coddling her.  

Your feelings of guilt are  your choice. Make a better choice.

Take care of you.

Good luck.

Elea's picture

I love the answers other steptalkers gave to your question because the other day I asked a similar question except from the view point of me being the wife/Step-Mother. For context, I also have my own bio children that my DH treats very well even though they are not his bio children.

My 2 SD's age 24&26, (step-diablas) demand to spend long amounts of "one on one" time with my DH, including dinners and vacations. The idea that they don't get enough "one on one time" or "alone time" was drilled into their head by their BM. BM also told them repeatedly that their Dad "Has other priorities," "The 'new' family is his priority," and "His friends are his priority." All of this is designed to paint DH as a deadbeat, to control my DH from afar because BM is jealous and instill in SD's a scarcity mindset all the while painting BM as the savior that would never even think about having a life other than her devilish, bratzilla diablas. BM uses SD's to meet all of her emotional and companionship needs.

No matter how much time SD's get, or money or whatever, it is never enough. When is enough enough? The answer is never.

Here's what I wish my DH would say to them.

"I love you very much. The love I have for you and the love I have for my wife are two completely different kinds of love. You are my precious daughter but you are grown up and you have or will have your own romantic relationships and your own life. Don't you want me to have someone to love in my life? Don't I deserve that? My wife is my best friend, my soulmate, the love of my life. She loves me and treats me well and I love her and treat her well. There is nothing in this world that can ever change that. I will not leave my wife sitting at home alone while I go out on significant life experiences without her. You have to be kind, respectful and treat my wife with honor because by doing so you show that you care about me. If you can't bring the best of yourself into our lives then we will not be willing to give the best of ourselves. You decide how you will be but you will have to live with the consequences of those choices.

If you are only able to give a little right now I understand and I hope that changes. My love for you is unconditional but my money is not. You are grown now and able to work and make your own way. I will be meeting you at the level where you meet me. My hope is that our relationship can be a full relationship with mutual respect and care. I will need to see a pattern of long-term acceptable action from you. Actions speak louder than words.

Remember that the way you treat those closest to you is the truest reflection of your character. Anyone can put on a good face to the outside. How you treat other people behind closed doors is the truest reflection of who you are on the inside. Do you want to be the kind of person you have been behind closed doors?"

If you allow your daughter to ignore your wife and treat her as less than human while you go out gallivanting with your daughter it will likely lead to your wife feeling resentful towards you and betrayed by you.

You teach people how to treat you. You need to set reasonable boundaries and expectations of your daughter. IMHO

My DH is still struggling with how to handle the diablas. He paid lots of $$$ for SD's when they were kids and then he paid for their college tuition but at least now that they have graduated the bank of Dad is closed. SD's have to go get their own. You aren't doing your kid any favors by enabling her to be a bum. She needs to strive and work for what she wants.

 

 

 

Newimprvmodel's picture

Her mother. I don't know what your marriage was like but your daughter has been groomed to see herself as a victim. Of you. And she has been holding that over your head. It only works if you continue to reinforce this behavior. 
Sit down with your daughter. Have a real and honest conversation. About how a healthy relationship works. How she needs to start paying her own bills. If she says without you psying her bills she is no longer speaking to you call her out on it!  
Regarding your wife, you are a package deal.  Yes you can have a relationship with your daughter even if she rejects your spouse but ultimately it will not include holidays etc etc because your wife comes first. 

BW1607's picture

Hi everyone. I want to thank you all for taking the time to respond and give such sound advice. I see a therapist but it's only helpful to a degree. I have no one really to talk to about my deep sadness/anger/disappointment with my daughter. I bury myself in work but no one at my job knows what I am going through. Every time one of my friends/colleagues talks glowingly about their children, my heart quietly sinks, and holidays/birthdays are especially painful.

My wife has some health issues and she is deeply hurt about how my daughter and her mother's family has treated her over the years. So the best thing for my marriage is to set limits of how much I speak of my daughte. The rest I internalize.

I was always so proud to be a father. I wanted to be the best I could be. I had a great example in my father. He died suddenly a few years ago and losing his love and wisdom has been difficult to endure. So all the wisdom you have given me here means a lot. Again, thank you. It's so good to see such kindness in the world.

I have had to come to the profound realization that the daughter I raised is gone and the adult that is emerging is not a person I like or respect. That's a hard sentence to write, but as some have stated here, the years of emotional control and abuse by her mother have taken deep root. I tell my daughter that until she gets away from that toxic enviornment, she will never be the person I hope that she can still be---loving, compassionate, kind, smart, honest, humble. Her mother's family wows her with material things, but comes at a price of her freedom in every way, which she doesn't see.

My faith has been shaking. I don't understand how people who abuse children and manipulate them to hate a parent get away with it. Is God going to hold them accountable one day? Idk.

When I meet with my daughter on the rare occasions she agrees, I try to tell my her these things, but she closes down, doesn't listen and always wants to turn the conversation to money, gifts and her "needs".

I worry about the future. Will I walk my daughter down the aisle someday? Will I ever see future grandchildren? Will my wife ever be accepted again after years of loving my daughter? But the path my daughter is going down will not attract a loving lifelong partner.

I am aware that I am an ATM machine. I am aware that my daughter and her mother are teaming up to try to drive a wedge between my wife and I. I am aware that they are trying to get as much money out of me, always dangling the prospect of a real relationship that my ex vehemently opposes and my daughter has no intention of fulfilling.

Stil, it's hard. Really hard. I am her Dad. My job is to raise her to be a loving, kind person who can do her part to make the world a better place. My job is to get her through school. My job is to love her unconditionally. But my job now just may be to cut things off and see if there is real love there for me, or whether the Parental Alienation is too deeply rooted to be overcome.

I have the memories of her childhood like they were yesterday. The father-daughter time, the laughter, the singing, the things we used to do together. I feel cheated. I feel like I've failed her. I have to get over that. She's made her decision and will have to live with it. But I have to live my life as well.....with my wonderful wife who like me has her arms wide open waiting for the day to hug my daughter and have her return to us. 

Several years ago, I gave my daughter a compass, with the inscription, "This will help you find your way back to me."

She still hasn't taken the journey.

Thanks to all of you and God bless you and your families.

BW

Cover1W's picture

I am so sorry this happened to you. It's happened to my DH as well. He hasn't spoken to his eldest daughter for over 3 years now, she'll be 21 this year. The last time was her screaming at him because he refused to just hand over an unspecified amount of $ for her private college costs. After not speaking to him for two years before that. He told her that he's not a wallet and unless she has a conversation with him, he's not obligated to pay anything. She's said some pretty horrible things to him over the years, with no foundation to them.

He's still sad, still wants to have a relationship with her, still hopes she will turn out to be a decent human being although he's losing hope as the years go on. He does see a counselor but he's still stuck in the loss mode and it feels very recent for him. I hope that you, although experiencing the loss, can move forward with your life and find joy for yourself and your wife.

BW1607's picture

Pls tell your husband that he is not alone. I'm in the loss mode too. Dads like him and I always thought we'd have a great bond with our daughters....Not the way we thought life would turn out. God Bless.

Rags's picture

Your heart is sound. 

Please take care of  yourself and take action to calm  your soul on this.

Time to write the failed family off and map the clear path for your daughter to engage with you instead of exploiting  you.

Only you can stop that.

Winterglow's picture

You're looking at this all wrong. You didn't fail her, her mother did. Parental alienation is considered to be a form of abuse - and it is. 

I think it's time you cut all ties with her and her mother. What are they going to do then? They won't be able to meddle in your marriage any more. Take satisfaction in knowing that you were a loving and caring father to her but her mother put an end to that. It's to set everyone free ... 

CajunMom's picture

Winterglow is right....you are looking at it wrong. Start trying to change your thought process....her mother did this to her. As a Christian, your comment about God resonated with me. I, too, have asked God "why" so many times. (I am in your wife's position). I'm a GREAT person (yes, I said it). I live my life focused on treating other people fair and kind. I'm a giver, I rarely speak of my faith but live it out. I forgive easily, I love helping others. And yet, DHs ex and kids did everything in their power to destroy me (and him) and our marriage. My DH has experienced his own alienation from his kids and was also their ATM for many years, until he finally had enough.

As for me questioning God? I firmly believe those PAS practicing witches of the world will get their due one day. Other than that, I focus on me, my DH and my marriage and they rarely impact us anymore. DH does maintain relationships with them, mostly over texting with minimal calls. His local son...almost 30...couldn't even find the time to show up for his father's 70th birthday celebration. PAS. It rarely gets better. Ugh.

AgedOut's picture

She may never take that journey. It's not a 'she can' situation, it's a 'will she'. and what are you willing to give up while you're waiting for what may not happen? it's okay to mourn the little kiddos we once spent so many happy times with. It's okay to be disappointed in who they are now. And it's always okay to hope for different. But you don't have to pay her to do that. It may feel like your only way to keep her close, but you're not buying her love, you're buying her disrespect and her loathing.  

 

Rags's picture

Your pain is tangible.  I am sorry that you are experiencing this.  However, this is entirely on you.  Only you can end it.  By not ending it, you are not only facilitating it, you are welcoming it. Stop that.

A few facts. Because facts are the only way you are going to protect yourself and if there is even a remote chance of wedging your DD's head out of her BM's ass, it will be facts and repeatedly rubbing her nose in them that will get you out of your woe is me hurt fee fees world and ending her career of sniffing mommy's butt.

Stop feeling and start acting. Once you have taken action, then do some introspection on the feelings regarding the fact based actions you just took.  Reset, get back to the facts, and treat DD, BM, your XILs and even your dear wife as they have shown you how to treat them.  DD, BM,XILs are shit. Know that. Treat them as the sewage slurry that they all are.  Enbrace your DW and focus on making a quality life together. 

YOUR DAUGHTER IS RAISED, YOUR DAUGHTER IS EDUCATED. YOU HAVE DONE YOUR DUTY!!! Stop thinking that doing the same shit that has created this hell spawned POS toxic WOMAN (she is not a child) is going to return a different result.  CUT HER OFF!!!!

Do not try to parent.  If you see your DD, listen, and talk but do not parent.  When she starts with the "me, me, me, money, money, money" crap, tell her what was brilliantly advised in this thread. "My love for your is unconditional.  Access to my money is not."  Access to your time is also not unconditional.  Then bare her toxic ass and tell her how much you have already wasted on her, how much you provided to her BM for her support, and that there will be no more support from you for her continued failures as an adult. She is degreed, she is on her own regarding her living expenses and paying for Grad school.

Our parents helped us with undergrad.  Grad school was on us.  We (my brother and I) went to grad school using tuition reimbursement benefits from our employer.  An MBA usually taking 22mos, took us 4 years.  We covered out fees and books out of our own pockets.  The company reimbursed us for tuition.  We did not take out loans.

Time for your baby girl to grow TF up.  Engage her as an adult, not as a child.

Her access to you needs to be dependent on the quality of her behavior and compliance with standards of behavior and standards of performance that you set.  Adults have to behave as adults.  This is IMHO the last lesson you can give her.  Grow TF up, engage with you as an adult, be respectful, or... good luck and have a nice day.  Send that lesson repeatedly until she behaves appropriately.

Engage in  your marriage.  Do not serve  yourself up to your XW, failed family progeny, or XILs on the alter of failed family martyrdom any longer.  

Engage in your best life and GTF out of your own way.

Considering the extent that your DW is what she is, she is in all likelihood a lost cause.

Protect yourself, protect  your bride, protect your marriage, and get out of your own way.
Or... learn to live what you are experiencing. For the rest of your life.

I hope that you do not make that mistake.

Good luck.

Harry's picture

"I am being used".  Just stop this craziness.  DD doesn't get to do a dadddddy ,DD Vacation. With out the whole  family  .  You payed enough, this isn't going to end well. Regardless of what you do. Except divorce your wife and family and become her private ATM.   

'Your choice, your wife and family or DD. 

MorningMia's picture

So sorry this has happened. This is also similar to my husband's situation, especially a while back. DH was ignored, treated like crap, not spoken to for two years, but all kinds of financial demands were being made, from paying for camp to out-of-state college to the wedding. They (SD and BM) got the message when DH contributed very little to the wedding. . . he finally began pulling back. (SD made a special trip to our home for the first time in 7 years--her idea--before telling us she was engaged. I KNEW there was something up with that trip. It was to "reconcile" in order to get wedding cash.) 

DH and SD have a relationship that works for them now (as well as it's ever going to work). He had to set boundaries. She is not invited to our home because she hates me, she's a crappy person, she's a manipulator, and she doesn't respect us. So, he visits her about twice a year, talks to her on the phone, she appeals to his heartstrings with baby videos, and he sends her birthday and holiday gifts. 

He finally did find peace, though, recognizing that this is as good as it gets. He's never going to stop loving his daughter (at least the one he remembers as a 5-year-old), and in some weird way, she probably is always going to hold some piece of him (from when she was 5) close to her heart. But the mother did major PAS damage all those years and SD has never come into being her own person. 
I'm glad you're in therapy and pray that you find peace. I know it's hard! 

Merry's picture

I am sorry for your pain. My husband is experiencing something similar, and it's so painful to watch.

I hope your daughter finds her way back to you. Would she consider seeing your therapist with you, or one she chooses?

In any case, stop the money. "You owe me" doesn't have an end, and a relationship based on money isn't a relationship.