Teenage SDs being Narcissists?

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Hey all, I'm in a bit of a dilemma so I thought I'd ask for help and see what you guys think.

I have 2 SDs, 15 and 18. I have been in their lives for nearly 10 years. My DH took over a family business around 5 years ago and has since worked harder and can only take around 2 weeks off at the end of the year. We share that holiday with my SDs.

In the middle of this year, for about 5 months, my OSD came to live with us during the week because she had issues with her SF at her mum's. During this time, BM wanted to have OSD for all the weekends (instead of alternating weekends as usual) and YSD didn't want to come on her own so YSD never came much to ours during these 5 months.

About three weeks ago my OSD told my DH that my YSD has issues coming around to ours because my DH doesn't spend one on one time with her enough. DH told me this but we sort of assumed that YSD just never liked it here anyway because she doesn't like the rules and she doesn't get along with me. We previously also thought it was normal that YSD was pulling back and wanted to spend less time with us because we thought she was being a teenager.

One weeknight YSD needed to stay over at ours so that DH can take her for an appointment the next day. I didn't want OSD to stay because YSD needed to be at the hospital at 7 in the morning and OSD has a habit of being late and very slow and very dramatic when told to hurry up. They were being a bit smart and both showed up but the issue was soon settled as DH was just going to drop off OSD later that same night.

I was a bit upset with this havoc and I confronted YSD at dinner table asking why she doesn't want to come to ours anymore (and she never wants to come without her sister). I might have sounded a bit defensive but also attacking. OSD started taking over the conversation and asking why I'm making this an argument and screaming that I was always acting like I'm a victim. She told me that it was none of my business that her sister wanted one on one time with her father, etc. I got taken aback but I bit back because I was also already upset. I said OSD was being dramatic and why was she having an issue with me now but never had this issue when she stayed here during the time she had a problem with her SF? OSD lost her shit, started calling me disgusting and stood up and yelled at me over the dinner table calling me disgusting and stormed off.

YSD stayed at the dinner table but she soon started attacking me, saying that I'm always constantly around, and that she doesn't come here to see me, that she only wants to see her father. She asked me why I was still there at the dinner table when its got nothing to do with me? She also said that her father has time to spend with me and sit with me at night but not with her. She also called me needy and that I have attachment issues, and that we act as if we're conjoined twins.

Despite everything YSD said I knew she was hurt so I still took the time to console her afterwards and said that she should still come here more often to spend one on one time with DH, if that's what she wants. I suggested they could go for a walk after dinner on the weeknight she's scheduled to come here (this is also what she said she wanted to do with him).

I also apologised immediately to OSD because I realised I probably shouldn't have brought up the SF thing. She said no.

My DH didn't do anything much during this whole debaucle. He told both girls that they shouldn't be saying those things they said but did not tell them off with any sense of authority and/or firmness.

Last week DH saw OSD but she still said to him that she wasn't going to apologise and that they should go counselling.

Truth be told I have always been treated like I'm an outsider. They never want to include me in anything despite all the effort I put in and they have always acted like I'm the person who stole their father from them. Even with counselling they don't want to include me as I believe they just want to badmouth me. I also told DH I'm not going counselling because I don't care that much. I'm sick of being treated this way TBH.

Fast forward now, both SDs don't want to talk to DH or me, and won't apologise for what they have said. We have a holiday booked but I think we will have to cancel it because quite frankly I don't want to see them as well.

I feel helpless because DH is terrible in drawing boundaries and don't know what the right thing to do is. He knows that his girls overstepped the boundaries but its like he is so scared of losing contact with them that he would almost just want me to move on and forgive them and pretend nothing ever happens. I don't want to do the latter. I want to cancel the holiday for now and let him sort it out with both of them. I have no issues with him seeing them outside the house but TBH I don't want them coming here unless they are going to apologise. I believe they are both old enough to know that they have said the wrong things to me.

What should I do?

Unfortunately, it's difficult

Unfortunately, it's difficult to take back things once they have been said and you do admit you were likely both attacking and defensive. It sounds like they view you more as dad's wife vs a mother figure.. and honestly.. that's fine. I think it would have been better to let your SO deal with whatever issue his kids had with the amount of time spent on them/you etc.. I know you were frustrated with their teen angst/attitude.. but as you saw.. wading into it really didn't resolve anything.. and your SO is still in his ostrich mode.. not really defending you... or mend fences with his kids.

If you want to go back to more of a truce situation with them.. an apology may need to be made. You don't have to apologize necessarily for your feelings.. but you can say that you are sorry that they got upset and that wasn't your intention. You can say that you know that they love their father and he loves them.. and you want them to have a good relationship... but the way you approached the conversation wasn't productive and hopefully everyone can move forward in a positive manner.

Don't know anymore...

Yes, perhaps the way I approached the conversation wasn't helpful but I won't be apologising again unless they do because I have already apologised straight away that night and they are not accepting it. And I don't believe I owe them another apology. They have also done many wrong things before and never apologised. Hence why I believe they are going in this tangent of being narcissistic (just like their mum).

And yes, DH is really frustrating me at the moment. So I don't know, the more I think about this the more I feel like DH is the problem... I just don't know anymore.

Lemme guess, they either

Lemme guess, they either never had or never followed a court-ordered custody schedule. So DH is so busy trying to woo them that he can't actually parent.

It's not you, it's them. Their stepdad has the same issues. Were I you i would take a huge step back. Do nothing for them. Your DH does all the planning, driving, cooking, cleaning, etc., when the Brat Princesses grace him with their presence. Don't waste time and money on taking a vacation with them.

Also, think long and hard about what your boundaries will be once they reach adulthood. I wouldn't advocate for banning them from your home while they are minors. They really should come when their CO says they should. But, as stated before, something tells me nobody has bothered with a CO. And once they are adults, you have leas than zero obligation to them.

I agree that it's likely that

I agree that it's likely that the CO was never pushed to be followed.. and as a result.. the kids can often get an inflated sense of what their rights are.. they start "running the show".. they learn.. maybe from a HCBM that they can withhold their presence.. at their convenience.

Now.... yes.. I get being a bit more flexible as kids get older when they have legit conflicts in scheduling.. esp if one parent lives further from their "home turf".. but by marginalizing their dad time.. they feel simultaneously "abandoned".. but also disconnected by their own choices.

Still hurt...

We do have a CO and I have worked so hard in getting DH to follow this CO strictly (especially when the kids were younger). But lately the girls are kind of doing whatever they feel like. Sometimes they call DH just before their weekend to say that they have stuff on so they're not coming. Other times they don't come when its their scheduled Thursday night to come. DH and I thought lately that as they are getting older they should have more flexibility if they don't feel like coming. After all my OSD is turning 18 in January and that signifies being an adult. And my YSD never wants to come unless her sister comes...

Thanks for the advice, yes I probably shouldn't ban them from coming as they are still minors. I'm still hurt by everything they said at the dinner table and I feel so disrespected in my own house that I really don't feel like they should be coming... This is also not the first time that this has happened so I feel like they are both going on this tangent.

And yes, I have been thinking long and hard about the boundaries as they get older and becoming adults. Originally I was open to having OSD living with us should that be the choice she makes (as she soon would be turning 18 and going to university, she might choose to live at ours if it is easier for her). But I have changed my mind about this and I do not want her living with us now. We were actually looking into buying a bigger house that has more separation so that the kids can be more away from us and I don't have to stress around the house (I do have a bit of sleep anxiety and noise sensory issues).

Lately I have told DH that he should be OK if later on we're all just cordial to each other but not necessarily that close, because I don't quite like the way they are acting lately and I think they will continue acting this way... This is just honestly so so hard...

I think flexibility as they

I think flexibility as they get older should be contingent on them acting....older. They don't get to throw tantrums then have the privileges of being a near-adult. I agree with the posters who say your DH has failed them, but i also don't think that gives them, at their ages, an excuse to throw fits and say whatever's on their mind without facing the consequences. I still say you should take a big step back, let your dH handle them, and don't go out of your way to accomodate them, including allowing them to live with you full-time when they age out of the CO. This sounds a lot like the other cases where BM wants them full-time as long as they are worth $$, then dumps them off on Dad once she has raised them to be little terrors. ETA it might not be their fault that they were raised poorly, but you should not take abuse from them because of it.

Not a chance!

There is no way I am allowing them to live with us now. Not a chance. DH also knows this. And at least we're on the same page for that problem. And yes, BM already told DH that she wants money for OSD to keep living with her because she's now over 18. They go to private school so DH used to just pay for BM's part of the school fees. But now that she goes to university, she will get a loan from the government for the university fees. And BM just wants DH to cough up of course.

These kids are raised so poorly. I have told DH to not expect to be close to them as adults, just to be cordial and be respectful to each other. But at the moment they're not even respectful to us... So I don't know what the future holds.

If DH is working so much that

If DH is working so much that he isn't home when SDs come visit... then honestly they shouldn't come at all. Sounds like you got defensive and angry... but if your SDs are anything like mine... getting a reaction/attention is probably what they want anyway.

They definitely said some hurtful things too. You can sit at YOUR dinner table because it is YOUR house. You don't need permission to be anywhere in your own home. If they want to talk to DH privately, then THEY can excuse themselves. Ridiculous. I hope DH addressed this. If not, you have a DH problem.

Even IF they do apologize, words still hurt and they still have meaning to them.

SD13 gave a half hearted "apology" when she said hateful things about myself and my son. It was making excuses of WHY she said those things instead of actually acknowleding my feelings. My DH knows where I stand with the hurtful words. If your DH is anything like mine, then that was enough and to "move on". "They're kids after all." *eyeroll* Funny how that works. They're "old enough" for iPhones, but "still just kids" when it comes to acting like jerks.

In the end, SDs showed their true colors and I would totally disengage from them. Believe their actions. Cancel the vacation. Sounds like it would be miserable for everyone all around.

They're not just kids!

Yes, thank you. To hear you say cancel the vacation is like music to my ears. I have been wondering whether it is the right thing to do and if I'm being dramatic to think like that. But I personally don't want to go to a vacation when everyone is upset at each other and I also don't want to 'rewards' the kids when they haven't yet realised that what they have done and said are wrong.

And you are so 100%. I hate that DH still makes excuses and say that they're just children and they don't know any better. I keep saying to him they are 15 and 18, they know what is right and what is wrong. They are fully aware of that they said the wrong thing and you're just excusing their behaviour and they're just going to waltz in here again like nothing has happened. And this is what lead me to wonder whether they're showing their narcissistic true selves because this is not the first time they pull this kind of BS to us and they have never apologised or showed any remorse. Somehow they just think that they're so wonderful and deserving of exclusive and premium treatment and that they would never be in the wrong.

And yes, the more I think about this the more I feel that DH is the main issue here. He is not capable of drawing boundaries and not capable of self-respect. He lets himself get mowed down by the kids because he is so fearful of not ever seeing them again. He lets them use this power to their advantage. YSD even gave him an ultimatum that night saying that if he doesn't spend one on one time with her that she's not going to come around anymore. I was like WTF? And DH once again just sat there and said not much. Most of the time I feel like I'm flogging a dead horse... Sigh.

Yep! You hit the nail on the

Yep! You hit the nail on the head. DH will never admit it, but he is forever in a contest with BM of who the favored parent is by SD. He is more concerned with be "liked" and the "favorite" than actually setting consequences and explaining how words have ramifications. In the long run, he is definitely doing SKs a disservice.

SD13 has learned the blame game as well and takes zero responsibilty with others too, not just family. Of course it's her TEACHER'S fault that she has poor grades. I'm sure when she is older, it will also be her "bosses" fault for her getting fired. You know... since she's above everything/everyone.

Atleast they are older! Hopefully they launch at 18. I would start having that conversation with DH now about what his expectations are after 18.

It is of course everyone else's fault! Always!

100%. That is exactly what my OSD said to us this year, she didn't do well in maths because she had a bad teacher. She blamed her teacher when he gave the class a very difficult trial exam and she said, 'what was that for? So unhelpful, so useless, etc2.' And as it turns out the actual exam was actually really difficult according to her. So at that time I was like thinking, well then maybe your teacher wasn't that wrong to give the class a really difficult exam and hence prepare you guys for what was coming? And at that time I was also thinking, maybe if you are struggling so much and your teacher isn't very helpful that you could meet up with some of your friends to discuss the problems and try to get help? Or watch some tutorial videos (I'm sure there're heaps of help videos out there!) and try to help yourself? Or even ask us to enrol you in some more tutoring classes? But no, she just wanted to blame it all on her bad teacher...

I too hope that she'll launch. She's not a lazy person or anything, so I think she'd be OK. She'll try to get into a university degree soon I think and hopefully she'll find a part-time job whilst studying at university... But at this stage there is no way she is coming to live with us especially with that attitude, so I hope she's comfy at her mum's.

As for DH's fear... I don't know what to do about that. He has a lot of male acquaintances who would tell him that after their divorces and separations they don't see their kids anymore. And some of them haven't seen their kids in many number of years. Some of them are young kids and others are more adult kids. Most of these men had issues with their ex-wives/partners and the exes brainwash the kids to think that dad is bad. And now my DH has absorbed that fear and is scared that he won't get to see them again. I said to him at least BM still encourages him to see the kids. And I told him that this fear is bad because it is really crippling his ability in trying to teach his kids consequences and disciplining them. He needs to stop treating their relationship as if its some fragile crystal that could break at any time. I said he has a very strong biological bond with them and I doubt that it would just dissipate so easily. But I don't know if it will really sink in in his brain or if it would just get lost in all of the madness we're in right now...*unknw* Sigh.

Collaborate and graduate!!! It works.

The physical human isolation that so many kids suffer from due to digital/screen parenting is tragic. It also drives a seemingly near complete abandonment of accountability when it comes to parents being parents and holding their kids accountable for their performance.

My brother and I got through engineering school with our study group. Some in the group were math wizards, some English wizards, some coding wizards. We all benefited from the group. Interestinly my brother and I were middle of our class but near the top of our class as far a career performance is concerned. At least I am in the near the top range. My brother. is by far the top by orders of magnitude. He is a C-suite exec. Only one other is VP level but not C level. I and a few others have reached director level.

Interestingly, the tip techy study group members, though they have done well, struggled and still struggle with teh soft skill elements to be high level managers/directors/execs. Though many of them do call my brother and me for guidance on career navigation and people related challenges. I still call them for tech topic guidance even though I have been leading engineering and technnology related organizations for decades. My brother has people for that.... many of them.

I am not sure if HS or Uni study grops are a thing these days. It certainly has been a while since the group of us who got through engineering school together.

We also put together a Grad school study group and that was an online MBA program. Not the same life long connections, but it was beneficial to everyone in the group. And... I graduated at the top of my class in Grad school. Where my comprehensive perspectives and penchannt for the soft skills shined.

No one wants me designing their technology, but leading an effort is where I am needed.

I think there's hurt feelings

I think there's hurt feelings all around, and that's understandable. But the real issue here is these kids aren't getting what they need from their dad. You're too involved, and dad isnt involved enough. It wasnt your place to confront his kid about not coming for visitation; that should have been handled by dad in private. So all the pain, jealousy and resentment got splattered on you, the easiest target.

So much conflict in step life comes down to a competition for resources: money, time, attention, etc. Your very existence means you stand between these girls and their dad, getting what they don't. They may feel they've come last for the past five years, while you've picked up his slack aka taken over and get to be with dad every day.

I'm not one to usually defend bratty skids, but it seems to me your situation is yet another instance of a partner's substandard parenting causing conflict. Things are out of balance, damage has been caused, and counseling is needed to help reunify everyone. Has your H booked an appointment yet? Don't let him dump that in your lap. He's the one who needs to take a hard look at his own conduct these past five years and step up to fix his family. So yes, cancel the vacation, or you go and enjoy yourself while your H starts cleaning up his mess.

I remember thinking what a

I remember thinking what a stand-up gal i was for not only taking over a lot for SO's kids, but for his nieces and nephews too. SO and his brothers acted like they needed so much help and regularly asked for it. All of it got turned around on me and bit me in the a$$. Lesson learned. Stepmoms (or step girlfriends) are not only unappreciated but often vilified for doing parent things.

Yep! I thought I was

Yep! I thought I was "treating them as my own" as one is step life is expected to do by society.

So True!

I over functioned for my DH for many years. The only one who was happy was HIM, while resentment built in everyone else. I thought I was being a good helpmate but was actually inserting myself into other people's business. This led to me being seen as controlling, while DH used me as his meat shield and buffer. After I disengaged, he kept pressuring me to work things out with his family. I remember one fight where I started crying and yelled " They don't want ME, they want YOU!". That seemed to register with him.

OP, there are deeper, complicated issues at play in your situation. While your H's daughters may indeed be classic Children of Divorce with all the associated warts, I doubt they're suffering from NPD. However, it's clear your H has done a poor job of balancing his work/life responsibilities or working to develop a deep bond with his kids. They are HURTING, and need their dad to show he cares about them. Him taking responsibility will recalibrate things and put the bulls eye where it should be: on HIM, not YOU.

Hands off for now...

I have had this realisation too recently. That because I am too involved in doing this and doing that, I'm being seen as being controlling. My OSD told my DH that on another time. I have taken a huge step back in the last 2 years and I'm no longer disciplining these kids. I also used to organise one thing or another, but I realised these kids never appreciated my effort, so I also stopped doing that. But I suppose the problem is my DH never really stepped up when I stepped back. He disciplined the kids every now and then. But he doesn't arrange anything to do with them. He also thought that they were growing up and being teenagers that they just wanted to keep to themselves. Both DH and I didn't even want to hang around with our parents when we were their age. He also says to me that he doesn't really know what they even want to do and he doesn't know what to do or talk about with teenage girls. I encourage DH to take a couple of days off when they have school holidays so that he can take them to his parents' holiday house or something. But DH never does...

Anyway, I'm just going to hands off at the moment. I think it'd be best that DH does everything from now on. If he still doesn't do anything then its really not much I can do...

The COD warts are IMHO fully

The COD warts are IMHO fully due to the parent(s) infecting those kids with the virus that grows those warts and then fertilizing and growing that virus to thrive in their failed family progeny.

DH is the issue, most likely...

I was way more involved than I am right now. A couple of years ago I would still discipline these kids and tell them they're wrong, etc. It didn't go down well when I disciplined YSD a couple of years ago. I have taken a HUGE step back from being a step mum since then. I don't discipline these kids and I leave that job to DH, who is also doing a poor job at it. LOL. But the problem is that DH is very relaxed and doesn't plan much. He picks them up, gets them, but doesn't plan to do anything with them. He also thought that it was normal that they didn't care about doing anything because they're now teenagers and just want to be glued to their phones and hang out with their friends. He didn't know that's how they felt. I used to be the one planning on doing things with them, but then after stepping back and realising that these kids are never grateful and appreciative of what I do, I stopped doing that too. And that's when we stopped doing things and we just lay around the house doing nothing. Both SDs also would complain and not want to do things when there are things planned. YSD complained about going to parks, YSD doesn't want to go to the mall unless she feels like it, etc. Maybe the truth is YSD just doesn't want to go because I'm going to be there with them. But how am I supposed to know that when they never told my DH anything?

And yes, at the start they brought it up with DH. DH told me but I said nothing to them. And that was 3 weeks ago. But then when YSD made such a huge deal about staying alone at ours, that's when I got mad and asked her why she didn't want to come anymore and why is it a big deal if she stays alone here without her sister? Its not like we abuse her.

Anyway, yes, DH is substandard at parenting. He is terrible at drawing boundaries. I told him he can go for the psychology sessions, but I wouldn't want to go. He is yet to plan for one, perhaps not this year as it is all coming so close to the end. But no, I will definitely NOT be booking that for him. Its his kids, its his problems. And yes, looks like we're going to cancel the vacation...

"we're" may be canceling the

"we're" may be canceling the vacation but why are you canceling yours?

Cancel DH's and the spawn's reservations, keep yours.

Let DH "splain" it to everyone while you are plushing it up for YOUR holiday. Heck, it may be a Hallmark Christmas movie and either he steps up or the proverbial long lost crush will be at the same resort.

Hey, it could happen.

Have fun!!!!

And yes, I am burning man cards by the box full watching these testicle killing theatrical masterpieces.

Bah-Humbug.

Didn’t Cancel Ours…

So the holiday came and past, we didn't cancel ours and still went. A week before the holiday my DH asked both SDs if they still wanted to come and if they did then they would've had a condition where they had to come and see us and try to resolve the matter before going on the holiday. They said they didn't want to and would prefer to not come, so we decided that we weren't going to cancel ours (everything paid for). And we just cancelled their plane tickets. We were so lucky that we got most of the $$ back for the plane tickets.

DH was upset they didn't come but I think he also saw their true colours when they didn't want to come and he's had enough of it at that time. He hasn't seen them since that so it's been nearly 4 weeks. He's texted OSD merry Christmas and happy new year and she's responded but YSD is still butt hurt by DH and she's gone MIA since.

We had a fantastic time away, I think we both decided we needed a good holiday after all that drama and being in another country and time really allowed us to press the reset button.

I've decided to try to not worry about this too much and as long as DH and I are on the same page about handling this then we're good. We won't let SDs dictate our lives so I think DH knows that if SDs don't want me to be included then he won't be either because that's how we want our lives to be and kids don't get to dictate what us adults do.

So for now, we're still on holiday and on our last few days (we're back home now but not back at work yet) so we're enjoying the last bits of it and not going to let them brats bring our marriage down...!

I could have written the

I could have written the beginning of your post when my Sdiablas were 15&17. (they are now 26&24) They also complained that "I just want to be with my Dad." and "I'm not going if SHE (me the SM) is going." and "I just want to be alone with my Dad." "I want one on one time with Dad." Sounds like girls really craving their Daddy, right? Wrong.

Sdiablas had LOADS of one on one time with Dad. More than any kids I know. WAY more than I had with my parents, Mom or Dad.

DH catered to their every want or need, packed their lunches and chaffeured them around EVERY weekend plus took them to extracirricular activities 2 or 3 evenings per week. He took them out for one on one on a weekly basis. They often refused visits or stormed back to BM's in pissy tempers saying, "I'm gong back home" whenever they didn't get their way or experienced even the slightest annoyance. One time OSD called up at DH's family T-giving dinner to cry about how she "wasn't invited" and "missed everyone so much." DH had literally begged her to come with us to T-giving dinner and she flat our refused as a way to punish DH. She hated that I attended the T-giving dinner and she didn't get to dictate that I couldn't be there so that she could have Dadeee all to herself. Such a manipulative little byatch.

The difference is that I kept my mouth shut and never said a word. Your DH should handle all questions or concerns about all things SD.

Ask any SM that came into tween or teen SD's lives and the consensus will be that life with tween/teen SD's is pure hell. Teen SD's are all narcissists. Teens suck big time, especially teens that have permissive parents that coddle and spoil them and feel sorry for them because they are children of divorce.

When I came into their lives, SD were under the impression that they were the sun and moon that the rest of the family should revolve around. BM was the queen and DH the bad dog. This impression was the fault of DH and BM but mostly BM who taught them that their wants (not needs) come first and the rest of the family should kiss SD's and BM's feet. Not surprisingly, there have been many hard knocks and wake up calls for SD's as they realize that DH and I are the heads of the family, SD's could be the stars but instead by their own choices and refusal to join in they are more like one of those weird planets off in some distant galaxy.

Dh never allowed his children to chose when I did or did not participate in family activiites. Now that they are adults they can behave however they like and they are now free to experience the consequences of those choices. They are still terrible but DH has gotten better at sheltering me from their vitriol. At the end of the day, spouses are with each other, not SK's who grow up and move on.

Toxic SDs

Yes, this is exactly the way BM treats them. She lets them think that they are so right. She lets them have the final say all the time and lets them have their ways. She's always defending them. This makes them think that they should also have their ways with us. Not gonna happen. The problem is my DH is very poor at drawing boundaries and he doesn't and cannot get mad at them. He'd tell them off but not in a firm manner. He says things more like, 'you shouldn't be saying that', etc. and these kids are literally yelling and towering over him whilst he just sits there and is staying calm. This is a point of frustration for me as I want him to be angrier and stand up for us. I want him to have respect for himself and for me... And not just let them run amuck and say whatever they want to us and then walk around afterwards like nothing has happened.

He is also currently getting punished by his kids because he's not doing things their way; i.e. excluding me. And they are refusing to see him at the moment. If I were him I'd be like, 'you don't want to see me? Then that's fine'. But he's acting all fearful that he might not get to see them ever again. He keeps approaching them and try getting them to apologise. I'm like, they are the ones who are doing the wrong thing, we haven't done anything wrong (and I have apologised to OSD and DH and I have now recognised that YSD wants one on one time), so why are the ones to be sucking up to them? They are using DH's fear to get him to do what they want...

And I think like you said, these kids are acting like this only to exclude me. I don't even know if YSD actually really wants that one on one time because YSD is so nasty and rude to my DH. She'd tell her dad to get out of her room if he comes into her room, she'd wriggle herself out of his hugs because she says its awkward, she refuses to come to see DH unless her sister is there, etc2. But she never once comes to my DH and politely and nicely asks him to just please spend a bit of one on one time with her. She complains saying that whenever she comes she just spends time with her sister instead of DH. But at the same time she doesn't want to come if her sister isn't there and says that its boring without her. I think she just wants me to not be there and to be excluded and to have daddee to herself. And she's not getting that, so she's throwing a tanty.

I'm already seeing what my SDs would be like as adults so I don't believe we'd all be best friends. I already told DH that he needs to be just OK with us being cordial, but not close. I don't want toxic people in my life. I work hard to get rid of toxic people out of my circle.

How do you act around your SDs these days? Given they are now adults. I'd like to know so that I can prepare myself... Haha.

I'm afraid you are probably

I'm afraid you are probably going to have to suck it up now and maybe forever if your DH continues to be a fearful, permissive parent. That is a recipe for SD's that never learn how to act right.

My DH had the same issues but fortunately he developed a pair and over time and he became more proactive in giving them expectations and boundaries. Once they became adults, even he finally got tired of their insufferable behavior. A major factor in speeding up his disillusionment with SD's is that I disengaged. He had the pleasure of spending lots and lots of time dealing with them on his own without me as a buffer. Helping to move SD's into dorm rooms, visiting them at graduations etc. Sdiablas treated him like sh*t even though I was nowhere to be seen.

At some point one would holpe that it is embarrassing and insulting for a grown man who has done nothing but provide and care for his kids to have two brats screaming at him, trying to dictate his personal life. His ego finally had enough so he pushed back. I would like to think he also wanted them to be better people but who knows, it was probably too little too late, IMO.

The way I see it is that when they are children you have to deal with them, feed them, meet their needs etc. no matter how unplesant they may be because they are children. After they become adults you don't have to do anything for them.

When they were children I attended a few school events, went on outtings and vacations with DH & SD's and we didn't allow them to chose to include or exclude me. Now that they are adults they don't invite me and I don't go to any of their life events. DH has to deal with them on his own. I see them as little as possible and I talk to them as little as possible. When they visit and I cannot avoid them entirely I do my own thing. I tell DH and SD's I hope they enjoy their "one on one time." I avoid being alone with them so that DH can see their behavior for himself. I am polite and civil like you would be with a distant relative or a co-worker that you don't particularly care for. When there is an issue I ask DH to address it. I love to cook but not for SD's so instead of our usual homemade meals we have take-out or food from the frozen food aisle.

My Fear Exactly

I do honestly think that these situations might happen with my SDs, where they don't want me to attend, etc.

The thing though is that I don't agree if they invite DH but not me, as we are married; and if we are cordial then there shouldn't be any reasons why I'm not invited. I honestly think that if they want to exclude me just for the hell of it then I wouldn't want my DH to attend as well. I was brought up in Asian background and I would never in a million years get to dictate what my parents do or don't. DH was brought up in a traditional Italian family where he also has those similar values. I wouldn't think it's right that the kids get to invite DH to their wedding but not me (let's say). When I asked DH that question (as a hypothetical, because it probably isn't that hypothetical TBH), he said he wouldn't attend because that's just rude of his children to do so. I guess it'd be a different story if me and his kids aren't in talking terms, or if I just don't want to be involved in general. But for me, kids (no matter how old) don't and wouldn't ever get to dictate what their parents do (no matter how old). Basically in Asian cultures no matter how old, rich and successful you are, your parents are still to be respected and you can never defy them and they are still above you. That's my core values and IMHO it'd be a disrespect on DH's side if he lets his kids do that to me. As hard as it is, I think DH knows that too and he would have to come to terms with it if that's how his kids are going to be, because I'd get to the point of divorcing him if he's going to let them walk all over me like that. I have high standard of values in life and over what's right and wrong, and I would put these values over my relationships because my values are truly my core essence and if I don't have those I'm not even myself. It may sound harsh, unforgiving and uncompromising but that's how I am and I don't really beat around the bush. (Also part of the reasons why I find it so hard to forgive them and move on - because they disrespected me in many ways).

And here in lies the problem.

when they are children you have to deal with them, feed them, meet their needs etc. no matter how unplesant they may be because they are children.

The no matter how unpleasant they may be.. .part. If they are ill behaved little shits swat them on the ass, plant their nose in a corner to stand there all day with a growling hungry tummy.

It won't harm them and it will in fact provide them with a lesson on what level of abject misery they will live if they choose to be unpleasant, disrespectful, or rude.

Consequences work. Apply them in a manner that delivers an escalating level of abject misery and the behavior will normalize to acceptable and away from unpleasant.

Far too many parents think that children are fragile little creatures. They are not. They are robust and they are sponges. Control what they absorb, teach them appropriate behaviors, teach them about choices, teach them about consequences, tolerate nothing but polite repsectful interface, and..... they will likely not be shit adults.

It is pretty simple.

IMHO of course.

Agree!

I agree with this 100%. The problem with society these days is that they think that kids are way too fragile, they put them on a pedestal and let them have whatever they want and cave in to every single demand the kid is making. I also, to an extent, disagree with today's society where they just so easily suggest psychologist's therapy whenever a kid behaves in an ill manner. Not every misbehaving kid needs therapy, sometimes they're just being assh*les. And maybe, just maybe, it's because their parents let them be assh*les and not apply consequences when they are acting like an assh*le. I was raised in a very strict Asian household where manners and respect are everything. And I truly cannot stand kids these days when they throw tantrums and start kicking their parents or shouting and yelling and slamming doors in front of their parents. My SDs have done the latter several times (shouting, yelling and slamming doors, and lately, talking bad towards me) and I always say to DH (and my parents), that if they are my kids they wouldn't even get to that level of disrespect.

I agree that kids should be taught manners and consequences from a young age. My SDs are probably a lost cause and I don't have much hope for them.

At work, we also recently had a teenage boy from Singapore (my boss' nephew) who did work experience at our office and he overheard me talking about this with my boss (I'm pretty close friends with my boss actually and we talk about each other's woes lol) and his nephew (being 15) said that there is no way kids in Singapore would ever be able to talk like that to their parents. And I said, exactly! That's how I was brought up. And not to be racist or discriminative, but it appears that this approach of being soft to kids and treating them like kings and queens only exist in predominantly Western cultures, which is really to the downfall of society... I don't condone corporal and physical punishments to kids, but you can talk (or yell lol) to kids in a strict and firm manner and apply consequences to the kids and teach them how to behave well instead of always giving in to them or taking them to therapy as soon as things go wrong...

These kids will never like you

Or have anything to do with you once they hit 18 or leave..Stop spinning your proverbial wheels. Disengage from all of this. You don't ever want to go on vacation with SDs. You don't want to wast your time Monet, effort on them. If they stay with BM That's OK. DH is the parent, it's up to him to handle it . Don't let SD distroy your marriage

Exactly, if you are lucky

Exactly, if you are lucky like me your SD's will piss off and live their own lives.

After she graduated from college OSDiabla26 moved 2000 miles away and after YSDiabla 24 graduated she moved in with BM and mooches off of her.

I see them maybe once or twice a year.

I wish!

Oh gosh, so lucky! I wish upon my lucky star that it'd happen that way! Please pray for me!

Sds and Dadee

Ive got SD24 feral forger saying "I forgot what it feels like to have a daddeee", when she holed up in her room mostly and then moved away by ghosting us, and even now, when Husband offers to spend time shes always busy.

"your just an atm dad, good for money and a hug a few times a year".

Now SD17 powersulk, holes up in her room and depending on who is asking has different reasons. That is when she actually shows up. She has no community in ur city, dusty agriculture town, and all her friends are in beach town. Plus she doesnt drive...and no job.

But I envision she will be saying the similar things "clove took my daddee awayyyyyyy".

sounds like SDs want to continue catering and coddling.

I say go on your vacay, let daddy cakes cater if hes got the energy.

But make darn sure your finances are separated, wills in place, estates and deeds etc. These entitled spawn will be sniffing around for inheritence if something happens to daddy cakes.

So True

100%. She just wants me to blame when all she wants to do is sulk, stay in her room and be nasty to DH. Hence why I say that they're both narcissistic b**ches!

I was thinking about the finances the other day. And I thought the only reason why these kids would want to come to me when DH passes is for the $$$. And I thought to myself, they ain't getting a cent off me! Hahahah if DH wants to give them his $$ that's up to him, but I don't have kids off my own. When I die, my $$$ is going to either my own relatives (parents if I die young, my sister or nephew when I'm old lol) OR they are going to charity for cats (call me the crazy cat lady)! SDs can get f*** lol but yes in serious terms we will need to sort out our individual wills!

Inheritances

HAH. Me TOO!

I was even mentioning to hubands niece that Im trying to figure out who to leave all my stuff to, since I dont have close relationships with my niece and nephew and certainly am not giving anything to SD24 Feral Forger or SD17almost18 Powersulk.

Im likely to leave to local SPCA. Dogs and cats and horses and bunnies, etc.

Or if Im old and need care, the person taking care of me gets everything.