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Months of peace, now disturbed. Would love your thoughts.

Hesitant to try's picture

I've been with my partner for nearly 3 years. 5 kids between us, all young adults, all out of the house. 4 of them are great, doing their young adult lives, are kind to us, no drama. 1 of his children is the exception. SD23 has borderline personality disorder and has been a challenging person since way before I ever met my partner. SDs parents (my partner and his ex) were divorced about a year before I met my partner, and BM has since died - she was an alcoholic. SD's routine was to emotionally and verbally abuse her father whenever they had contact, which was I'll admit, not that often. Maybe a couple times a month. "Dad, I need money. And by the way, you ruined my childhood" or "I'm thinking of changing degree programs. And by the way, you stress me out and I don't want to talk to you". She is in college, holds a part-time job, has a therapist. Last spring she went on a particularly damaging (to him) spree - racked up medical bills, wouldn't help him sort it out (and privacy laws prevented him from doing much since these were her medical issues), plus more emotional and mental abuse thrown in. It was the worst I'd seen thus far, and so I drew my line in the sand. I told him he either established boundaries, or I was done. Fortunately, he agreed to the boundaries, set them, and all was so much better. We hadn't heard a peep since May! It was so nice! When the boundaries were set, we agreed that I would know about all interactions between them because this was "our" problem to keep an eye on since her behaviours impact him and that impacts us. He agreed to this, always feels my input is helpful, wants to be a team, etc.

A few nights ago, we're watching some television and he gets a call from SD (first, as far as I know, since the May boundary setting). Rather than show me his phone so I could see that she was calling and make a quick game plan about how he should handle it, he leapt off the couch, went into a bedroom and shut the door. At first I was confused and alarmed -- what is happening? And then after a minute I realized oh SD is calling and he left the area to take it in private. What is going on? Why are you hiding? So I wait and wander around the house doing some errands. Listened at the door a couple times (yup, I did) and heard 'divorce' - likely him apologizing for the umpteenth time about divorcing her alcoholic mother, and I heard 'I'm sorry' - she likes him to apologize for whatever horrible things she imagines he has done to her, and I heard some crying on his part, which is heartbreaking.

90 minutes later he comes out of the room, sits back down on the couch and joins me in watching TV again. Doesn't say a single thing about what just happened. At this point, I am stunned and pissed and sick to my stomach. I couldn't even start the conversation I knew we had to have. I said goodnight and went to bed. The next morning I left town for a girls weekend with my own DD (which had been planned weeks ago) and I haven't talked to my partner since I left. My head spins between "we'll work this out" to "I can't live with her in my life" to "he didn't follow through on our agreement to loop me in" to "why does he take these abusive calls?", spin, spin, spin.

Heading back home tomorrow and we'll be having a talk when I get there. He'll be amenable to the talking, he'll apologize for whatever he thinks I'm mad about. But I'm not overly impressed with apologies. What I want is change! Stop taking those calls! Remember the tips we learned in the books we read! You have to keep my in the loop!

Am I wrong? Even though she doesn't tug on the leash as often as she used to, she clearly still holds the leash, and my partner still obviously plans to jump to attention when she does!  And I thought we had made some permanent progress; apparently not.

Just looking for some advice, thoughts, cheering for my conversation tomorrow night when I get home. I know a lot of women would handle this, deal with it, say it's not the bad... but for me, it's bad and it's completely unnecessary. Nothing good happens from her abusive calls except she gets her kicks. It's not like him taking that abuse helps her in the long run. It just hurts him and then it hurts me and it damages our relationship. 

 

caninelover's picture

In the cycle of abuse.  SD is mentally ill but he does need to tell her OK, sorry you blame me.  I still love you but can't continue to live in the past.  Good luck and good bye'.  But he needs to be willing to let go which he clearly isn't.

Has he had or is currently in therapy?  Sometimes reading books isn't enough.  And sometime a partner being 'in the loop' doesn't feel right probably because he already has a lot of shame.  He needs to be in therapy and want to change the dynamic.

 

 

 

Hesitant to try's picture

about a year ago. Maybe 3 sessions, at my request. It was helpful but he didn't feel a need to keep going. Therapist said the same things we already knew, said to stay the course, etc. so he didn't see a need to keep going. He'd likely go back, again at my request, but I think going weeks/months between her outbursts is just long enough for him to be lulled into thinking everything is OK. 

And I think you're right about the shame and he probably feels badly knowing this hurts us too. He says he does want to change the dynamic, but I guess he can't maintain it. Falls back into the same patterns. Every boundary throws her into another fit so I suspect he feels like just going along is easier - though he'd never admit that to me.

caninelover's picture

Hi ex-wife was a pretty severe alcoholic during their marriage, right?  He is probably used to dysfunction.  Would he consider Al-anon? 

I have a friend who's had alcoholism in her family and in her first marriage.  She started going to Al-anon a few years ago and its really helped her, especially when she saw the same patterns in her young adult son.  It helped her realize how she enabled it.  Just a thought but ultimately he won't really change for you - he needs to want to change the dynamic for himself.

Hesitant to try's picture

the alcholism was on and off during the marriage. Sounded moderate at best, and got worse over time. He has not gone to al-anon, I remember suggesting that early on because, like you, I know a lot of people who find that helpful. I can suggest it again, but I get tired of being a therapist, honestly. I want a partner! and I don't want unnecessary drama in my life. I wish he had done a lot of this work before we met, but it is what it is. 

hereiam's picture

I would be feeling the same way that you are, especially since he agreed to always keep you in the loop.

I would point blank tell him that you were hurt that he said nothing to you about the call and remind him about the agreement. You guys have to stay a team.

Might be time to re-read some of those books. It's kind of like recovering alcoholics that need to keep going to AA meetings, even many years after they get sober. It keeps them on track and they have on-going support. They sometimes have to be reminded why they should stay sober.

Hesitant to try's picture

those are good thoughts - we need to keep this issue active in our minds because some day that next call will come. We have to be ready. I think I saw there was a parent support group or something -- maybe I can find an active group and he or we can attend the meetings. 

diver111's picture

It blows my mind when I hear about how adult children talk to their parents like that. I grew up with an alcoholic father and abusive mother. I have never accused them of ruining my life, or even discussed it. I don't expect any apologies. I have taken this unfortunate situation and created a fabulous life for myself (except for the SD). To me, you move on and try to make lemonade out of lemons. 

Hesitant to try's picture

sounds like you did amazingly well, given the challenges in your childhood. If only everyone had the same attitude. My partner was the stable parent and a pretty decent one. Her "realities" are just lies and exxagerations and they're so hurtful. Sounds like you had legitimate reasons to be angry with your parents, and I'm sorry that was your situation. 

My favorite story about her angry comments is this one. Background - she is in college but often drops classes, skips semesters so it's taking a long time to finish. One day she writes "Dad I'm thinking about changing degree programs to XYZ". He responds "that's an interesting idea. Do you think you're up for a change and a full semester of classes?" She responds "how dare you ask me that! Since you can never support what I want, please stop talking to me". Hahahaha. She started the conversation! Most of their interactions are far nastier, but that one always made me chuckle!

Catmom024's picture

My S.O. of almost 20 years would never agree to "keep me in the loop".  He simply can't do it...he has to have a secretive relationship with his daughter and have it be 100% between them.  He doesn't want me involved because I'll shine light on things he wants to be in denial about.   So...i pretend she doesn't exist, I don't ask questions.   I only get involved to say what her latest criminal activities are ONLY if he mentions he's spoken to her and to draw the line that she's not allowed in our house.

Family dysfunction runs deep and the people involved usually want the dysfunction to continue. As long as it's not affecting me, he can do whatever he wants with her.  And yes, all phone calls are made in secret.

 

Hesitant to try's picture

I can't imagine doing this for 20 years. You've clearly found the secret to letting this go. I suck at letting this go so it just eats at me. Not sure what to work on. Help him? Save myself? I think if he could join me in the "this is wrong" camp and stay there, I could be more supportive of him supporting her. I don't need a perfect life - we all have problems. But when it feels like he's in la-la land, or picking her needs/wants over mine, THAT makes me so upset I immediately think about leaving. I always need a day or two to calm down. 

Catmom024's picture

Yup.  Twenty years.  Fun times.   He can't handle anyone saying anything negative about his soon to be 30 y.o. daughter or his guilty daddy parenting.   They'll never be capable of a normal relationship and thus the secrecy.   

Just be aware that you pointing out any issues or problems may eventually result in him lashing back at you.  It's easier for them to deal with us being mad at them than their precious babies being mad at them.  Sometimes they are just incapable of changing their behavior or don't want to do the work so it becomes easier to hide it, thus the secret phone calls, get togethers,  etc.  

I remember one time we were outside when my boyfriend's whacko daughter called him...it was after she'd had her kid (ugh, why must they reproduce) and boy was he jumping to answer the phone.   He literally ran to another corner of the yard.  I casually went to that area of the yard, and he'd run to the opposite corner.  I could hear her running her mouth...she talks LOUD and 500 mph (drugs/craziness) and it was embarrassing to him, no doubt,  the stupid stuff she was saying.  I think deep down they're ashamed or embarrassed of these adult children and how they act.

 

SeeYouNever's picture

I think it was someone here that said to get the book "Stop walking on eggshells" by Mason and Kreger.

Mu brother's wife is boarder line and is much the same. She once demanded that I apologize to her for one of her wild swings, as if it was my fau6 for not knowing which eggshells to walk on. They are very hard to deal with.

Its probably really hard to talk to your DH without him reacting like he does with SD or with his ex. It's hard when you're mad but try to be compassionate. Ask him why he didn't let you support him through that call. Make it about him, not her. It's really hard being at the receiving end of a boarder line's abuse. Tell him you're concerned about his mental health. When he worries about her remind him that you can't fix or control her, and you have to be careful not to enable her. No matter what he's does she will blow up again and again.

People with boarder line don't get better, they just get worse. He can't fix her he just has to keep her in a box or at a distance. 

Hesitant to try's picture

Seeyounever. What you describe would have been a perfect response to the terrible night he had. I honestly wish I was a better person and able to deliver that kind of support. It's interesting because had he shown me she was calling, and we did a quick "prep" before he called her back, I would have been eagerly waiting with a hug. I also think my reminding him what he doesn't have to tolerate might have helped him direct the conversation better. But him shutting me out (possibly hiding it like Canine said) makes it feel like it's them vs. me, and like what we've said and agreed upon doesn't matter as much as keeping her calm and showing her that he's always here to take it.

I agree with you about BPD; they don't get better. But there are books/theories that they CAN get better so that's what he's hoping for. 

SeeYouNever's picture

They can only get better if they want to and most never do. 

I think I only have compassion about this because I see how miserable my brother's wife makes him. It's really hard to get through to him because he will always defend her and make it everyone else's fault. Part of the reason she is so horrible is because he enables her.

Hesitant to try's picture

your brother will ever leave her? I'm really fascinated by spouses/partners of BPD people - why do they stay? I assume it offers something they like?

SeeYouNever's picture

She has broken his self esteem so much that he doesn't think anyone will take him. He seems to think that that have an amazing live story that has beat the odds. 

Tey don't even sleep in the same bedroom anymore.

JRI's picture

I'm 76, DH is 74 so we have had years of SD dysfunction.  For years, we were in the "we're a team" mode, trying to "fix" and cope with her.  Even then, he'd have the secretive calls with her.  Later, I might hear a sanitized version.  I think he was ashamed.

I disengaged from her 5 years ago after her latest 10-month stint living with us where she made our life a nightmare with her lying, drug use, theft and evil. I made arrangements for her to live elsewhere and we subsidize since her disability doesn't cover it. I told both of them what I'd do and no more.  DH misses me being on "team SD" but so sad, too bad.

He still has the secretive calls with her and he's still ashamed.  Today, she was supposed to be at our house at 11 to cut his hair and pay me her part of the shelter expense.  After him calling several times, she appeared about 12, moaned and groaned theatrically about a "severe headache", took 10 minutes to write me a check, forgot to bring her hair equipment, whined some more and left.  Bye bye.

Hesitant to try's picture

why are some people so exhausting? You must have been so exhausted dealing with her all those years. I'm glad disengagement works for you. I know that's likely the secret to our staying together, but honestly seeing him answer that phone and take his abuse (to the point of his own tears)... I just don't know how to make peace with that. In those instances, he seems spineless and unable to stick up for himself. I get loving and wanting the best for our children, but do we have to "suffer" for it?

Kaylee's picture

That's awful that he cried when she abused him. But yeah it does make him seem spineless and weak, I agree.

My ex was like that: I would hear his daughter abusing the shit out of him and he would just stand there and take it. Say nothing.

I would say to him later, "honestly, stop letting her walk all over you. Just stop".

It's unattractive - yeah it just turned me right off. His daughter has BPD too so I know exactly what you're dealing with.

tog redux's picture

Well, this is tough. He has to want to change his relationship with her, and clearly he doesn't. All you can do is decide if you can live with it. My guess is that this is not the first call since May, just the first one since May that you witnessed.  Seems to me you have decide your boundaries with him rather than insisting he set boundaries with her. 

Hesitant to try's picture

Is her BPD the reason he's now your ex? One of the reasons?

Kaylee's picture

Yes, one of the biggest reasons. 

She uses her mental health as an excuse for everything. But I work in the health field, and have met plenty of people who are independent and living their own lives whilst coping with mental heath issues. 

She will live with him and leech off him forever.

CLove's picture

Im over 8 years in this with my DH. Married 3.5. SDnow22 Feral Forger was 15 when I came into her life. The personality is similar in that if you tell her no she will start raging at you and yelling and cursing. She doesnt have a drivers license and no job - just crashes on the couch the Bm Toxic Troll got from our house when we got new couches. 

Currently she has been no contact. Last March she was in limited contact, which I initiated because it was her bday and she mentioned she wanted a relationship with me. Since then, whenever she has difficulties and arguments with her mother, she comes to DH and asks if she can move in and he tells her no, but it is extremely hard and painful these conversations.

We have spoke of things many times. But last Christmas, she was on the phone, speaker, and crying and complaining about her mother and sister "ganging up" on her about cleaning, and words were said threats made and she sobbed as she was also telling SD15 to shut the eff up...

Just so much drama. And DH sat in his chair in the man cave sobbing silently. Just tears and tears running down his face. She had previously been 5150'ed by her mother. The mother had also threatened suicide a few times this past year.

When they bred with crazy, they didnt think of the consequences.

And now we live with them.
NOW, DH knows that I will never live with SD22 FF ever again. I dont like having roomates anymore and will not support disrespectful adults I dont care whose kid they are.

Dh doesnt tell me when he speaks with SD22 FF. Often it will come up later...like the time he took her to get boots for a job she never showed up for. Or gave her a ride somewhere (because no license...)

Sorry you are going through this it sucks.

Hesitant to try's picture

Your situation sounds worse than mine - don't know how you did it/do it. I'd say it helps to know that others hate this as much as I do, but it sucks that any of us have to deal with this. Peace to you, CLove. 

CLove's picture

But Ive been here on steptalk and it really saved me knowing that I wasnt alone and that I wasnt crazy and that there were different solutions that were workable, meaning I did not have to accept being treated badly in my home. That simply by virtue of being born with DNA did not guarantee that child a place in my home.