How to support step-daughter through relationship with her narcissistic father
Hello,
As the title indicates...I'm curious about hearing stories from others who may have similar stories. I live with a 9-year old step-daughter. Decent relationship with her. Been around since she was 5. Solid relationship with her Mom. Maybe the best I've ever had. SD's Dad...well...he's not great. He checks seven of the NPD boxes. My partner knows well...as she lived with his abuse for close to a decade. She's learned boundaries with him, and has naturally adopted the the route of parallel-parenting as it's really the only option with him. ''Do not engage'' is the name of the game. Only the essentials.
But it's so hard. There are three visits each year. Longest is a full month in the summer. There's a lot of anxiety for SD about this. But she's also so amped up to see him. The evidence of abuse is in plain sight...but as it's predominantly of an emotional nature, there's really no recourse from a legal vantage. We've adopted the notion that we can really only be emulators of resilience for this little human. She's caught in a vortex of confusion. She's terrified of her Dad, but would do anything for him. She's his number one advocate. Taking the high road feels impossibly unfair sometimes...but from a place of relative calm it seems to be the only way. Her primary residence is home. Her Mom is an island of sorts.
I just don't really know how to be supportive. I feel angry. And so helpless. I can only imagine how confused SD is. I try to come back to that...but sometimes it just feels like there's no way forward. Can't help but feel that she's being set up for a life full of so many interpersonal problems. This is her primary male role model? It sucks. I feel like maybe I've surrendered to being dragged through the mud by this guy...but how does a person be a positive role model in the face of such a charming manipulator?
Ugh.
Been there, done that
My ex was a handsome, charming man who got into drugs back in the 60s when our DS was 4 and DD was 2. I ended up leaving him and eventually remarrying. He went completely off the track when we left and stalked me, kidnapped our son, quit his job and only slowed down when I charged him with assault. He was found guilty.
I, like you and your wife, did not badmouth him to the kids although there were valid reasons to do so. He never paid a dime of child support. Although I eventually allowed him to see the kids, he was often a no-show.
It seemed important, especially to my son, to maintain as positive an outlook as possible. I tried to be honest with the kids, both in discussing his positive qualities (funny, creative) as well as negative facts (drugs, unreliabability)
Flash forward and DS and DD are now in their 50s. I know now that all kids have extra-sensory laser vision about their parents, for better or worse. They understood his faults even better than I did. He died a few years ago. I was so glad I hadnt talked him down to them, they didn't have to defend him so were able to see him clearly.
Like you, my DH struggled with having this unreliable person in DS and DD's life. The lack of child support was quite the issue, too. Back in those days, CS enforcement wasnt as good as I think it is now. When ex worked, it was off the books. I made sure I filed everything possible to get enforcement altho I knew in my heart it was a waste of time. It was important for DH's sake.
DH hated when ex was a no-show, especially for DS's sake. DD seemed to not be that interested but DS missed his dad and those no-show days were excrutiating. I remember DH going into my son one evening after he had been waiting all day. He comforted DS somehow and they planned an outing. I hated ex on those days.
I feel for you. It's hard to watch your SD go through it. The outcome here is that both my kids individually think of DH as their father figure. DS is a kind, patient adult man who my DH can depend on. He listens to 84yo DH ramble on and is sensitive to his issues as an aging man. DD has called on him in emergency situations and is an adult female family member he can depend on. Although she is an introvert, she has hosted Christmas many times so that he can see all his kids on the holiday (it's not for my sake since I often would rather not see them. lol).
It's not an easy road for you but you sound like the kind of man who can do it. Best of luck!
Thanks for sharing your story
Thanks for sharing your story. The big take away there for me is that idea that the more we try to push onto the kids our own vision of others (especially people they're close to), the more likely they'll be to defend behaviour...and consequesntly they'll be less able to see clearly for themselves. We've been good for the most part...but have had some slips recently. Not so much trashing her Dad, but definitely letting our own feelings show. Anger. Frustration. Resentment. We're working on some strategies to disengage when we feel those familiar hooks sink in. I think it's pretty much a sure thing that we're going to get dragged through the mud. It's her Dad's way. He's an absolute master of shifting/deflecting blame. So, finding some acceptance on those terms is going to be an ally. We can't change him. Ultimately, I know that he's sabotaging his own relationship with his daughter. More her loss than his though.
Tricky. I've never been worried about being ''less than'' him. It's a shame he doesn't know that, because maybe he'd feel less threatened by us ''others''. I'm sure his behaviour makes sense to him.
I don't think I can afford to have any expectations about how she'll see me later in life. Too far away. I've been pretty consistent over the years. Just here...but not pushing to be what I'm not. I'm not even really ''step-dad'' to her...I'm just me. We think of it as a different male role model in her life. A contrast to other people she'll encounter.
Grateful we don't really have to worry about the money...or being tied to him in any other way. We're quite capable of being removed from all that.
Thanks again for sharing your persepctive. It helps.
You're right
You're right that its important to let the child form her own opinions of him. That worked for us. Believe me, she sees him very clearly but will defend him. I am still stunned by how much our 5 kids understand about me, DH, BM and ex. It's almost uncomfortable. If any of us parents think we are hiding anything from them, we are wrong.
Badmouthing the other parent
Badmouthing the other parent to kids is not a good idea. However, the facts are critical to kids with a particularly challenging opposition parent in order for those kids to have clarity and to be able to protect themselves from the challenging opposition parent not only through their childhood but also as adults. Generally these parents never fade away completely and more often than not will attempt both a relationship and to manipulate the kids even as adults.
It certainly appears that you landed on an effective balance in nurturing your children in their perspectives on their father and giving them the facts needed to protect them and so they could protect themselves.
Your kids are fortunate to have been raised by a great mom.
I think as we say to many
I think as we say to many women on here, remember that he is her bio parent, and she will always have a bond and a pull towards him. It may seem unfair that you are the one in her life all the time, but he gets all the accolades - that's stepparenting, if you choose to take on a parenting role.
But you don't have to take on a parenting role, you can be the "fun uncle" type that has a good, strong positive relationship with your SD. Doesn't try to be her father, doesn't badmouth her father. Some day she may recognize that you were always there for her and appreciate that. But if she feels like you are trying to be her father, she may pull away out of loyalty to him.
I'll consider myself
I'll consider myself fortunate...in that I'm not looking to more to her than exactly what I am. I think if anything, I've resisted being a ''father figure''. I'm not her Dad. I'm a different male role model. She gets to see a different kind of relationship with her Mom and I. Kindness...patience...collaboration. I think it's a different story when she visits her Dad. Her Mom and I want her to have positive relationships...and I think we're secure enough in our own roles to not feel too bent about winning popularity contests. The real concern is the abuse she's suffering at his hands.
If anything...it's given me insight into what others go through.
That said...I can see what you're saying about pushing a role onto her. That would likely just catalyze her against us. I really want to avoid anything that resembles ''us against them''. That feels ''off'' on so many levels.
More affirmations. Need a new strategy to deal with my own feelings towards him. If we're sharing those...we're playing his game...and then she's losing on both ends.
Thanks for your perspective.
My exH is a narc and it is
My exH is a narc and it is terrifying the idea of leaving your child alone in thier care.
Things I have found that have helped DS become resilient are:
1. Recognizing he may be experiencing anxiety which they usually wont talk about especially if it's related to the other parent. Teaching coping skills and counseling are very helpful.
2. Don't try to make up for or cover up for OP actions. Don't bad mouth the other parent, but it is okay to speak about specific behaviors and why it's not okay for them to behave that way.
3. Provide structure and consistency for them in your home. It gives them a safe space. Encourage healthy outlets and activities like sports, dance or art.
4. Let the child feel comfortable coming to you about things. Avoid letting them see an emotional reaction.
I see a huge difference in DS vs SKs. SO went above and beyond covering up for BMs bad behavior and poor parenting to try and protect SKs. As a result they think she is wonderful and now that they have been PASd will have to endure much worse than the small amounts of heartache they would have had to learn to deal with when they were younger.
Where as DS is well aware of who is father is and just has learned to accept him as such. When exH would make DS blantently false promises. I never said a word or called him out. I just made sure to be there If DS wanted to talk about it.
Thanks for this. Very
Thanks for this. Very constructive.
We've learned to recognize a large portion of her anxiety being related to things around her Dad. Big build-ups around weekly calls (especially when big things are happening in her life, as she doesn't feel she can share honest things with him...fears his reaction...or that he'll be disappointed or angry about how she's been spending her time). Anxiety builds leading up to visits. This makes sense...and knowing what it is makes it easier to manage. There's been a lot of encouragement to release the energy. It's safe to do that her. Her Mom is incredibly patient. Literally her island in this life. Her safe space.
I'm hoping counselling is a thing for her again. She was seeing someone last year...and through those talks there was some mandatory action taken against her Dad (evidence of physical abuse). She experienced backlash for that...so I think she's a bit gun-shy now. Maybe it'll be a thing again.
I still have work to do on being less reactive. I've been noticing my own build-up of feeling around some things...moreso of late. There are triggers for me...and I need to recognize those more effectively. I know there's some trust there though. She talks to me more about her Dad than she does to her Mom. Nothing overwhelming. Just that it's a struggle...some of the things she lives with. It's easier to be neutral sometimes. Other times...ufff. It's hard...
Your second point...I'm curious about that one. Do you have anything more specfic to add in terms of pointing out behaviour? That feels important to be able to do. It has to be neutral, obviously...but it seems to be a trigger for defensiveness from her. We've experimented with some different deliveries...but it feels like a battle more often than not. I think it's really about picking the right moments. There's receptivity in the more neutral day-to-day moments...when she comes to us about things. Then it's like we're not really talking about her Dad specifically. It's a more general conversation that she seems able to apply to him. Not sure that makes sense.
Anyway. Realy appreciate your thoughts. Thanks, again.
Am example is one time my son
Am example is one time my son came home after a visit mimicking his father's verbally abusive behavior.
I sat him down and told him that I am aware that is how his father speaks to and about people. But that it is not okay to be hurtful towards other people. Also that other people don't want to be around someone who is like that that's why his father doesn't have any friends.
I asked him how he feels when his father does it to him?
She's terrified of her Dad,
She's terrified of her Dad, but would do anything for him. She's his number one advocate.
^^^^^
Terrified?
Perhaps you should explore why you use the word terrified. Is she terrified only at your place OR terrified at dads where he calls and you hear her screaming in the background? Does she show terror when he calls at your home? OR terror if she misses a call from dad?
Why is she 'terrified'? You didnt say that is why I am asking.
Thanks in advance
Good question. Reflecting on
Good question. Reflecting on that...''terror'' might be the wrong word. There's an abundance of anxiety.
It's definitely some form of fear. Anxiety about his volatility. Most of her actions seem to be an effort to not cause disruptions. If she forgets about her weekly chat, she has a tendency to want to cancel it at the last minute. It seems to take a concerted effort from her to prepare herself. And it's palpable, the change when she starts talking to him. It's like she's playing a part. If she's not a happy, smiling, laughing kid, he'll suspect something is wrong. She doesn't feel safe to share with him when things don't feel good. And I consider that maybe that's just how she IS with him...but I'm not sure. There have been little clues about how she feels when she visits. On the one hand...she's pampered when she visits him. Gets what she wants. When she wants. But is there a hidden cost for that? For example...when she came back from Christmas last year, we picked her up and at some point she just broke down. Her words that day were, ''I feel like I've been holding my breath for ten days.'' And...''Thanks for just letting me feel what I feel, Mom." She mentioned that she's not allowed to express her emotions there. Crying is forbidden. She's expressed fear about his anger. He hit her with a hairbrush last year (she told her counsellor about that and it started a big process that she felt the backlash for. The counsellor said, ''We talked to your Dad, and he understands that he can't do those kinds of things." Her response: "You don't live with him...you don't know what he's like when no one else is there.") There's also a lot of lying...and hiding things in her life from him (Asks Mom to lie for her, too). He's angry if she shares that she's been spending time with friends. Or riding a bike. Or gets a haircut. She's worried he'll punish her for some pretty normal kid things. She feels safe here...but things that seem benign are often huge sources of anxiety. If she hurts herself doing something...she'll stress all week that her Dad might find out. She sprained her wrist and refused to video chat with him...after a massive panic attack. If she's sick...she refuses to speak to him, because he'll be angry at her. She lost an earring-back one day and was inconsolable for hours becasue she was sure he'd find out and punish her for it. She hurt her wrist last year, and was screaming at her Mom at the hospital that she wasn't hurt, that it was all a big lie. Later, she shares that she was worried she'd need a cast or a sling and then her Dad would find out. She gets yelled at for having dirt on her shoes. She's asked her Mom to just BE in the room for their chats because it seems to keep him a bit more civil.
Recent mess of visitation as he had some domestic upheaval...and she's worried that he's going to come to the town where we live for his visit. What if her friends see her with him? What if he's verbally abusive towards her Mom, and people witness it? People that know them?
Not isolated incidents. And some of her reflections to us are too powerful to ignore.
I guess it depends. Sometimes kids fear a parent...but this seems so far beyond the realm of ''normal''. Neutral conversation the other day...and she asks me, ''Do you have things you're really scared of in life?" And she shares...''My biggest problem is my Dad...but I don't like to talk about it.'' No probes. Just sharing time and space and it came up spontaneously. He's been coaching her to be ''inconsolable'' when she comes back from visits...so her Mom will just give up and ''let'' her live with him. So much evidence of active alienation as well. But that's a whole other conversation. It's part and parcel with his way of being.
Terror...perhaps that's not it. But it's heavy. A lot of baggage. She thinks it's up to her to provide for him. To make sure he has money...and food...and a place to live. It's strong. There's been such a consistent theme from her sharing. Credit her Mom fully with being receptive...and non-judgmental...and wealth of patience. I hope that safe link of communication remains open.
It's a mess. Such a mess. What kid deserves that?
Didn't intend to type all of that. And there's more...so much more. Does it answer your question?
I used to always tell my son
I used to always tell my son he could blame me if he was questioned about something by his father. Since his father already hates my guts it's no big deal to me and it takes the focus off DS. With narcs kids are just pawns to be used against the real enemy which is the ex. So having DS refocus exH back on me was a great tool for his survival.
He is a child and I have no issues fighting any battles with exH if he wants to go there. Luckily he has learned over time it's not going to get him anywhere so he just resorts to stewing about it and talking about me behind my back.
Dear Kindred Spirit,
I feel so compelled to respond to this thread.
I am a fulltime parent to my husband's daughter, 11. We've been together 5 years...BM dipped from the state 4 years ago, sounds like a very similar visitation schedule to yours (a week beginnging/end of year and month of sumer). BM has some (undiagnosed) Cluster B personality disorders and visitation and communication between SD and BM is a heartbreaking thing to behold. We see a lot of the same behaviors you've described (excessive prepping/planning for phone calls, sooooo much anxiety before visits, hiding a lot from BM, not feeling safe to be vulnerable in BM's presence, etc).
In my experience, I think "terrified" is an appropriate term. I think for these kids it goes beyond basic anxiety....these are their parents, there is a power dynamic there that is systematically abused to elicit control. Emotional abuse births real FEAR, not just nervousness or anxiety...fear. Your poor girl is bearing the full weight of an adult's instability at age 9...that's terrifying.
My SD has been seeing a therapist consistently since BM left and according to all of the advice we've been given throughout the years...you're doing everything right. Although I can understand that that might not be what you would like to hear given that, when you're child is wracked by fear of isolation with an abusive parent... NOTHING feels like enough.
More than anything else, continue to model healthy relationships and dynamics in your own home...show her what a healthy relationship looks like, healthy conflict and resolution, uncondictional love, etc. Provide a stark contrast to her time with her dad.
In pointing out harmful behavior or abuse, we tend to take a similar path as @wickedstepmo., when SD comes home from BM's (particularly after a summer visit) we do not shy away from pointing out harmful habits that have formed or are recounted to us. Whether it is something BM did ("Hm, that doesn't sound like a very kind thing to say/do. How do you think she could've approached that in a way that didn't feel so hurtful?") or if SD is showing some harmful habits that she picked up at BM's ("Hey lady, I know that's how you talk at BM's, but it comes off as pretty rude. Let's be aware of our tones so we don't sound dismissive towards others.") We've also found that removing those harmful and abusive behaviors from the context of the relationship with BM (or in your case BD) and placing it into a larger social context (would she be ok accepting that behavior from friends/others?) helps her see the behavior for what it is (separate from her relationship with the parent) and better avoid or reject it in the future.
The fact that your SD is processing her fears and feelings with you is SO HEALTHY! That your household is a safe space where she feels comfortable being vulnerable and expressing herself is INVALUABLE Keep that up! I have a friend my age who had a very similar upbringing with a flaky, narcissistic father. His dad was always complaining that my friend's mom and SD were orchestrating a conspiracy against him but here's what he learned and my husband and I are beginning to see in our own daughter... Kids crave love and acceptance. That's it! Make them feel seen, valued, and safe and that will go far beyond anything else. For those of us dealing with emotionally abusive "co-parents" this is really all we can do. When another parent cannot or will not (esp due to mental illness) provide that for their own child, it is all the more valuable the other household do so tenfold. It sounds like you and your partner are providing precisely that. As your girl gets older, she will be better equipped to process and differentiate between the conditional and unconditional love and unhealthy and healthy behaviors she experiences in each household. Honestly, 9 is still a little young for that. We have personally seen a LOT of growth (as far as recognizing of her own volition abusive behavior, lies, etc from BM) in this past year alone (10-11).
Stay the course. Love your girl, give her a space to process and be. Your continued unconditional love and full acceptance of who she is will do wonders.
Please DM if you need to talk further, our situations sound alarmingly similar and I am happy to support however I can. This shit is a (very long and very painful) marathon, not a sprint.
p.s.
I also want to add that, given how much time your SD spends with you... her dad is not her primary male role model... you are. That doesn't mean you are her dad (besides, labels are completely irrelevant in emotional relationships) but you are the person she observes day in and day out, interacting with her, interacting with her mother.
You set the standard, not the other way around... and the fact that she feels safe confiding in you speaks volumes.
The truth and the facts. That is how.
"I feel like maybe I've surrendered to being dragged through the mud by this guy...but how does a person be a positive role model in the face of such a charming manipulator?"
The truth and the facts. That is how.
We had some of this to deal with during our 16+ years living under my SS-28's Custody/Visitation/Support CO. During his SpermLand visitation (7wks a year. 5wks summer, 1wk winter, 1wk spring) they would load him up with all sorts of manipulation, bullshit, and drama. It did not take long for us to realize that stability, standards of behavior, standards of performance, having his back, telling him the truth, sharing the facts in an age appropriate manner, and having his back was what we owed him regardless of how toxic the shallow and polluted end of his gene was.
As he got older and had questions about the things they perpetrated against him that did not pass his smell test, we answered with the truth and supported the truth with the facts. Eventually he started doing his own research when he picked up on a piece of bullshit that did not gel with his very notable intellect and experience living with their crap for years of visitations. We would occasional find him hip dip on the floor of our home office with the Custody/Visitation/Support files, court records, the CO, state regs, supplemental county rules, the SpermIdiot's arrest records, divorce (though he claimed to his kids to never have married, etc...... They hated the facts and they hated even more that SS knew the facts and had access to every record and sordid detail of the entire SpermClan and their crap.
My SS-28 asked me to adopt him when he was 22. We made that happen and now have papers clearly proving what has always been the case since I began raising him as my own since before he was 2yo. I am .... his dad.
Though you got a later start than I did, believe that the fact based strategy is a good one for supporting your SD on he journey of dealing with the toxic and shallow end of her gene pool, dealing with her fathers narcissistic manipulations, while you and her mom demonstrate a healthy adult relationship, a strong marriage, an true equity life partnership, and a healthy family.
For my SS it allowed him to launch into successful adulthood and become a high performance viable adult and a man of character and standing in his career, life, and community. The truly sad part is that his three younger also out of wedlock SpermIdiot spawned half sibs are all struggling with relationships, life, financial stability, one of them is in prison, the youngest os following the path that his felon elder brother has followed, and my SS's sister hates their father and will likely never have a satisfying life or healthy relationships. The SpermGrandHag and SpermGrandPa ruined their own children by raising them without standards or holding them accountable and now their GKs are suffering the consequences of the shit that their grandparents raised.
My SS, was raised very differently from his three younger half sibs. Not only with the influences and examples set by his mom and I but with the love of terrific Grand Parents (my mom and dad adore my SS and they are his favorite people), an wonderful uncle and aunt (my kick ass great little brother and his bride) and being raised very closely with his three truly good cousins (my niece and two nephews).
Keep up the good work, she will be fine. She knows who her REAL father is. Be honest with her, show her the facts, keep having her back, keep loving her mom, and loving her.
I would also make sure that she has a very good therapist who will work with her and guide her through all of the drama she experiences with her relationship with SpermDad and who will provide her with clarity that what he is and what he does is wrong and that it is not a child's responsibility to provide for the parents care, feeding, housing, and emotional well being. Those are the duties and responsibilities of parents to provide for the child.
My SS dealt with some similar anxieties, particularly when they would vent to him about how the CS they paid to his mom was taking food out of the mouths of his three younger half sibs, how it was not fair that he had nice things that the sibs did not, about how that CS provided us with new cars, new homes, nice vacations, etc.... The facts gave him clarity and calmed his anxieties on that for sure. Going over the family finances, the income his mom and I both earned, what it cost to buy our homes, cars, pay for vacations, for him to attend the best schools, etc.... then going over the SpermClan's income, the fact that the CS that they paid was $133/mo and made absolutely no difference in the homes we bought, cars we drove, vacations we took, clothes and shoes he wore, etc... and also had no impact on his sibs having food and clothes. When he would ask why they would tell him things that were not true we would answer that we did not know but that it was wrong and they should not do it. He learned to smell a lie before it left their lips and he to this day has a very highly developed revulsion to liars, manipulators, and toxic people. We made sure to give him the message that he had to be respectful of them though he did not have to respect them. We let him know that it was okay to live them even with all of the drama, lies, and manipulation.
He thanked us for all of that many years after he aged out from under the CO and no longer had visitation with them. He never visits with them, though he does stay in touch with his sister. They have never made any effort to see him or have anything to do with him after they were off of the hook for CS.
The only time he has seen them since aging out from under the CO is when we go on a family trip to visit my ILs who also live in SpermLand.
They make no effort to contact him other than attempts to get him to implement payroll withholding for direct deposit to SpermClan accounts to help support his three younger half sibs. He saw that coming and gave them a one word answer. No! Now that they are all "adults" even that pathetic crap has stopped. It took many years for him to gain the confidence and develop the knowledge he needed to protect himself from them both as a kid on visitation and eventually as an adult.
There is no reason why your daughter cannot successfully navigate it all as well. She has you and her mom and not only the bullshit she experiences with her idiot SpermDad.