Adult stepdaughters to be
Hi, I am needing advice. I have beein a relationship with my partner for 5 years. He has two adult daughters aged 35 and 31. Initially they were welcoming and I looked forward to forming a relationship with them. I was always friendly and polite. I have always respected the fact that he is close to them and have always helped him to have a good relationship with them. I have gone to every family occasion as he has always wanted me to, indeed he always says he prefers it when I am there and feels more comfortable with his ex wife when I am around. They divorced over 20 years ago when the girls were 10 and 14. He admits he wasn't around as much as he should have been for a while after that as his relationship with their mother was so bad. His ex wife has only ever been lovely to me, really inclusive and we have a good relationship. We get on really well though I am always mindful she is his ex wife and I don't get too close. The family dynamic is now so good that we all go away together for weekends and have had a holiday together with no issues. He says the girls are really happy that things between their parents are so much better and he says they know it's a lot down to me being so easy with them all and the situation. I have never had any jealousy issues re the ex wife as it was so long ago and I never see any real connection between them He also makes it easy for me by being very attentive towards me when we are with his family. So far so good eh? Well, not really as it happens. His daughters both have long held issues re their parents divorce and the u happy atmosphere at home preceding it. He says they were relieved when they separated as things were so bad between them. Their mother bad mouthed him quite a bit and has mental health issues of her own which seem to have been absorbed by the girls. The elder one is extremely protective of her and is more mother than daughter to her. She is also quite controlling in a very subtle way towards her dad. She is a psychologist so knows her behaviour is wrong and knows how to hide it too but it's there. For example she constantly texts him whilst we are together knowing he will reply and this is irritating me more and more as time goes on. She constantly refers back to things they did as a family when I am there. Every time we get together it's a game of do you remember when...? My partner, to his credit, usually doesn't say too much, just lets her talk. But it's every time! I feel it's a subtle ways of excluding me and this is the biggest problem. She also asks a lot about me and is very judgemental about my family. I have 4 children of my own ranging from 25 down to 15 and they are fine about our relationship. I have a great relationship with all of them and none of them have any issues regarding my divorce from their father. We still do things as a family and spend time together. My kids don't seem to have any long lasting issues or display any of the damage his kids seem to have from myself and their dad splitting up. His younger daughter is jealous and possessive and expects her father to always put her first and kicks off if it appears he isn't. The biggest problem is his attitude towards his daughters. He still feels guilty for leaving their mother and the unhappiness it caused them therefore he does everything he can to make amends. But this has been going on for 20 years and I feel they hold him to ransom and are constantly testing him to see what he does, ie put them first. Ther have been occasions when this has caused problems between us. For example a couple of years ago my stepmother was coming for a visit from abroad and we arranged to meet up for get together with my brother and his family. This was to be the first time seeing my stepmother since my father died 3 years before that and we arranged it to coincide with the anniversary of his passing. The weekend coincided with my partner's youngest daughters birthday on the Sunday which was the day we were coming home. In plenty of time to go out for a meal with his family to celebrate. She kicked off massively because he wouldn't be around for the whole weekend. I was so upset at her complete lack of awareness of the significance of my family get together and it caused a huge row between me and my partner. He always defends them, whatever they do. Whether it's rudeness, from the younger one,or not thanking me for gifts I've given them or for just being completely dismissive of me, from the older one. I am expected to give far more than I get from them I don't expect them to love me as they have their own lovely mother but I do expect to be treated with respect and for them to appreciate that I make their father happy. If I ever express any discontent about something they have done I am met with him either defending them or dismissing their behaviour because of the situation. They are 35 and 31! I just need some advice on how to handle him really as I can see this coming between us long term. The texts from his elder daughter always seem to spoil our limited time together. We don't live together and when we go away together would it be too much for her to leave him alone so we can enjoy our time together? I know why she does it, of course and I feel sorry for her but I can't suppress my irritation sometimes and he gets defensive and it goes from there. I wish I could just chill about it and just switch off. I have only ever been kind and friendly towards them. I have never pushed myself on them as it's not my nature. I have tried to let the relationship grow organically at its own pace so everyone is comfortable. Please share any coping strategies you may have. It's more about managing my relationship with him than with his girls. He is weak when it comes to them and always say all he wants is for us all to get along. When we are with them it's all fine, I smile with them during the do you remember when games and just go along with it. But it hurts sometimes as it makes me feel excluded which is obviously the intention. If ever I show any unhappiness it seems to be my fault and we end up arguing and he makes me feel like a really bad person which is completely unfair considering how I know he knows and appreciate I have helped him have a better relationship with them and his ex wife. What ever I do is not enough however and I am so fed up with it. Please help
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Welcome to the site!
I wonder did your partner have any serious relationships between his marriage ending and meeting you? If not, this may be feeding into the problem. The SDs are not used to sharing their Dad! However, as you say, they are in their 30s and not little kids. I have a similar problem with irritation with my SD23 and SD25. My DH often gets defensive if I criticise them although I often agree with him if he criticises my own two daughters (who are 36 and 38).
Hard as it may be I think you may have to disengage. You will read a lot about this here, when the dynamics are just too difficult, it's about taking a step back and trying not to involve yourself in their issues. Also, don't invest so much in the relationships. Be civil and friendly to the SDs, but cool - don't make an effort. If your partner talks glowingly of his daughters, underreact and don't carry on the conversation. It worked for me - not ideally - but it's not an ideal situation. It was better than the alternative, shall we say.
Thank you for your reply. He
Thank you for your reply. He had a 10 year relationship before we got together and his girls didn't really like her apparently. Thay were glad when it ended. They approve of me though apparently. Yes I have thought about disengaging but will need to find out more on how to navigate that as I don't want to cause problems between me and him. I feel I do waste too much emotional energy on this and it's wrong. There are so many little acts of spite to make me feel as if I don't matter that it really hurts at times. So many ways of excluding me by them even though he never goes along with it. The older one is far too involved and he tells her stuff about what we are doing which enables her to disrupt and give her opinion behind my back in all the private texts between them.
too familiar...
yes, the 'daddy, remember when....' stories is a common tactic amongst teen girls to exclude their daddy's new GF/SO. When they are in their 30's, it's very obvious it's intentional and there is no place for these discussions. I watched the dynamics with the then 15 & 19 yr old girls for 5 years, to ages 20 and 24, even after I avoided them at all costs. xDH and I lived three hours apart and I would bow out and tell him to 'spend quality time' with the witches...er daughters!). I couldn't stomach a meal out with these witches to hear them start these pointless 'yawn' stories from long ago and talk about their narcissistic selves 'barf.'
Maybe try cutting off the daughter when she starts up the storeis again, asking her 'what purpose do you think strolling down memory lane serves us right now?' Or get up to do something with her daddy when she starts with the memories as if she's not there. Or say "Wow, it must be really tough to reflect so much from so long ago...what have you done today to make memories with your father?" She might just want to be the center of attention...'yawn.'
It's funny/not funny, people get upset when you treat them the way they treat you, imagine that.
The kids get mixed signals when their parents divorce yet remain 'friends' so the kids might always HOPE that mom and dad get back together, not matter the age, and they see their parents get along so well so they think daddy's woman is the interloper. DH's lack of boundaries has created confusion where the daughters have too much intel/insight/opinions in the relationship of their father, which is NONE of their business. What you and DH discuss is none of their business, except when both of you agree to share things, such as travel plans.
As long as your DH responds to texts when both of you are together, the more she will send them. DH takes reponsibility here in lacking boundaries and respect for your time together.
Of course the girls didn't like daddy's exGF...any adult woman in daddy's life is a competition for resources and attention. I was excluded and it's a crappy feeling. These calculated behaviors are ugly and manipulative, covert narcissism at it's best.
Do you really care if they 'approve' of you? The real question is do you approve of them? They are making themselves out to be very unlikeable. I was blamed for 'not bonding' with the two brats that would ignore me except when they needed something. Strange dynamics, workable, but when we don't take their odd behaviors so personally (I bet they pulled these tricks with previous women in daddy's life which might have forced the women to haul ass)...these SD's are insecure and manipulative. Good luck, you'll be fine, they might need to be challenged with what they say in your presence when it's not value-added to the occasion, environment or to your lives.
I'd like to try cutting her
I'd like to try cutting her off when she starts the reminiscing but I'm afraid I would look bad. Have mentioned it to OH and he says she doesn't do it to exclude me but he understands why I feel that way and has said he will mention it to her.
I agree with you about what you say about them getting mixed messages by their parents being able to get on better. I have enabled that so maybe I haven't done myself any favours. My OH always says their is no way they'd think he and ex would get back together and as I say I see no connection between him and her anyway, it's just for harmony during family times. Still you never know.
So 2 things really. 1, the text conversations when we are together and 2, the constant reminiscing. Need all the help I can get on how to handle those issues without appearing mean and without getting upset.
Make sure your OH tells his
Make sure your OH tells his DD that HE noticed that she frequently makes trips down memory lane with you present. He should not tell her that it upset you. That will fill her glee and incent her to keep doing it.
Too much deja vu with me and you..
She does it to exclude you. I've had several teenagers and adult daugthers tell me that they would do this to their dad's girlfriends to make them feel left out and make them leave. If OH said she DID intentionally do it to exclude you, then he would have you mad at him or having to clean up a mess and he's content to just sit back and be Switzerland...neutral. The lip service of 'he will mention it to her' and how he says he 'would not get back with ex' is a bunch of hooey. The connection is not appearing to be there but you are looking for the good and positive. I do know. Been there done that and wasted 5 years with the highs and lows of the triangulation.
You haven't enabled the mixed messages, the parents do this between their actions in front of the kids, discussions they have when you are not present when they mention the other parent. Those discussions have popped up at my dinner table indicating exDH and the BioMom were having conversations that were not 'just about the kids.' Grown kids.
Please try to focus on the facts and think of if a friend told you what you are going through, would you tell her to see the red flags waving at her or sugarcoat the discussions and associated feelings that come with the situations you are experiencing?
I hope you can find peace in all this.
I remember when my SDs, now
I remember when my SDs, now in their 40's, told me they did not like Dh's past girlfriend, but they like me. Here's what I learned so far:
No, they don't and didn't like me any more than the last girlfriend. They only acted like they did so they look like nice girls for their father. When I disengaged, they stopped pretending to like me and then started complaining about me to DH. And he couldn't figure out why they would complain about when I had been nothing but nice to them.
A therapist told me my DH lived in the Land of Denial when it came to his DD's. I have learned to accept that and am just civil if I see them.
Your SO's DD's are now playing a game of "Let's see if we can make Lizlou mad". My YSD even got frustrated once and asked "why don't you ever get mad about what we say?" And I responded "did you think I didn't realize your father was married before and had children?"
But they will put a new game in place as soon as they have the opportunity. I had to laugh when Zoom was created. I knew what was coming, and it did.....Family Game Night, with mommy and daddy on the computer screen, the SDs DH's, but not me. DH said no. These women are in their mid 40's. Game players never stop, so brace yourself.
I have had a similar problem
I have had a similar problem with my DH and his adult kids. He drops whatever it is he's doing to answer their calls or texts. We discussed it, I got angry, he apologized, rinse and repeat.
Finally I'd had it when we were out on a date, he took a call from one of his kids after agreeing ahead of time that it would be a no-phone evening. I excused myself, headed toward the restroom but left instead. Got in my car and went home. He could either date me or date his kids, but not both.
Sometimes it takes a shock like that to get through. If your partner can't or won't hear you and take your feelings into consideration, you either have to make a stronger statement and set some boundaries around what you can and can't live with (including consequences for him barrelling through your boundaries). Or you continue to tolerate it and grow angrier with building resentment.
Thank you for that. I have
Thank you for that. I have been in that situation re texts and calls. One time he was driving so I answered and said he'd call back when he'd parked. She insisted on talking to him, it was about where to get tyres for her car! He panics to answer the phone as quick as he can when either phone, particularly the younger one as she can be difficult. And whatever we are doing he answers any texts from either of them. I'm sure the older one does it deliberately when we are out together just us or away anywhere (obviously she knows when we are away). We have argued about it but he makes me feel I am being unreasonable and plays the but they're my kids card! I can't express how angry I feel when he is distracted by a text conversation with one of them.
Oh, yeah, I got that too.
Oh, yeah, I got that too. 'They're my KIIIIDDDSSS. What if it's an EMERGENCY?" We live 800 miles away from his kids, so what, exactly, would he do if it were an emergency? And if it truly was, they'd call my phone too.
I spoke to my therapist about this exact issue because my DH was insistent that I was wrong for trying to "stop him from talking to his kids." No, I wanted his full attention without fear of interruption. Not 100% of the time, but when we were on a date or having a serious conversation. My therapist asked why his kids were so crippled that they needed to talk to DADDY right away? And why his own needs to talk to his kids immediately were more important than my needs to have an intimate evening with the man I love?
DH and I discussed it, reasonably calmly. Turns out his kids aren't entirely emotionally crippled and don't need DADDY to respond to them instantly. DH is just scared of them one day not loving him (he admits it's irrational), so he grasps at any opportunity to connect with them. He had to hear how unattractive that is to me and how I can never really trust that he is truly "with" me if a phone call can so easily take him away from his time with me.
He's made significant changes, and we're both happier.
the GPS tracker on their phones helps them plan...
to call right before you attend an event or are in the middle of dinner out somewhere...the exDH would be so emotionally checked out after a stupid sniffling call from exSD24 (mini wife) so there I was sitting 'alone' at every event. Oh, the boredom of their empty drama....hours of life that cannot be recovered
mini wife
She has taken the place of his wife. You are the mistress in this relationship.
The only way to deal with this appropriately is for you to assert yourself and tell him that you need to be the priority. No, children when adults, do NOT come before the partnership. He needs to not tell her personal stuff with respect to your relationship. Boundaries are necessary, so start with that.
Her belittling you and marginalising you - you cannot control that, but do NOT continue allowing it. Smiling through it is eating a sh!t sandwhich. Stop doing that. Limit time with her. When she starts her games of "remember when" or makes digs, have your comebacks ready, and its ok to interrupt! When that used to happen, I would go "oh look at that!" or some such trivial thing to take the conversation in a new and different direction.
Shes a psychologist? I just got finished watching "Basic Instinct". Read up on mini-wife syndrom. Read up on parent-child enmeshment. Arm yourself. They are the worst because they have been trained in mind-bending tecniques.
Or you can always just date him and not take it further. Figure out what you want as to the future of this relationship. Do you see yourself growing old(er) with him? Do you have financial independence from him? What would happen if he got sick and needed a caregiver?
For now, disengage. Meaning, no more gifts or effort from you. Go as no contact as you can. Gray rock until you can figure out what you want going forward. Work on boundaries. If you get pushback from him (sounds like you already do), just calmly explain how you feel, and keep it simple. "I dont feel comfortable with you sharing details of our relationship." "I dont like when your daughter belittles me or makes digs at me". "I dont appreciate so-and-sos rudeness."
ETC.
I agree with everything you
I agree with everything you say but I'm never brave enough to do those things. I feel it deeply and get upset and we argue and I am left in tears and feeling unreasonable. He acts like the victim then and says he feels sick or anxious because I want him to ignore his kids. I do know he's being unreasonable and unfair to me on this. We talk about long term and moving in together but I think I know deep down it's a toxic situation that won't ever change. There would have to be agreed boundaries before we set up home together but I think if I even mentioned that he would go all victim again. I don't think I can live like that long term.
then don't...
I was promised the bad behaviors would change...please read my post from 6 March of this year. I was looking for the good and he promised and nothing happened, their dynamics have worked for them for years, decades, and the only one put off or upset is you...the outsider that will be treated as such until you haul ass too.
BUT it might work out for you, there are several members here that set some hard and firm boundaries and their DH straightened up.
Hmmm
Reading your post I first thought this is a good guy...until halfway through.
He is making YOU feel bad for not tolerating his enmeshment with his wives/daughters. He is good to you UNTIL you dare find anything wrong with his princesses. Your SO should not answer texts calls if you are on a date or spending qyuality time.
Does he instantly respond to you if you call when he is with them? Does he get defensive about you if his DD's talk poorly about you. My guess is no he does not.
20 years divorced and he vacations with his ex wife, goes over to celebrate occassions for the sake of adult daughters?? Im not the type to say RUN quickly. But I have to say you are not in the top 3 of his priority list. You can do much better.
Why is his ex wife at his
Why is his ex wife at his family events? Why are they vacationing and such together? They have been divorced for over 20 years! Divorced longer than married, I assume?
Eh. I don't know that I would waste much more time with this relationship. I just do not see him ever being fully available for a true committed relationship. Sounds like he already has 3 before you... exwife...needy daughter 1....needy daughter 2.
If it hasn't "gotten better" in over 20 years, it's not going to.